Problem with FPS

ShiunTraze · October 2014

Hi there,
just like other people I have a really horrible problem with FPS in the game $:\$ . In towns/cities I get around 30,40-50/60 fps which some could say is okay but it lags at points and always does this, there are frequent, sudden drops in fps and this leads to a short lag. All in all it isnt that much but can be very annoying because i want a smooth experience. In Cyrodiil it's the worst, I get around 20fps

in battles and its practically unplayable for me. I recently overclocked my gpu by just a bit and found that I wasn't using all of my available cores (which I've changed now) - yet still there is not a great change. I've spent a HUGE amount of time researching to fix these problems but i just stumble across the same solutions (graphics settings, notepad document, administrative privileges etc.) It has become quite stressful because sometimes I just cannot enjoy the game as I would like to and I want to enjoy it on reasonably (high) graphical settings. I'd be really appreciative if somebody could help .
Anyhow, here's a few of my specs:
- GeForce GTX 760 gpu
- AMD FX-8320 (8 core processor)
- 8GB RAM
PLEASE HELP

sgtsgt · October 2014

I honestly can't say why you have bad FPS. I have an I3 processor 3 gigahertz 4 cores, a Geforce 750Ti with 2 gig video memory and everything runs smoothly for me. It's weird how some get this and some don't. Hopefully they will sort this out so they don't loose people.

Audigy · October 2014

Its the AMD CPU, they are not made for MMO gaming sadly. You can try to OC the CPU, ramp it up to 4 GHz. The GPU has nothing to do with your FPS drops, its the lack of core power in AMDs architecture.

DivineCrysis · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Its the AMD CPU, they are not made for MMO gaming sadly. You can try to OC the CPU, ramp it up to 4 GHz. The GPU has nothing to do with your FPS drops, its the lack of core power in AMDs architecture.

People with intel processors are having the same fps problem in Cyrodiil. PvP is just unoptimized right now; so all you can do is wait for them to do something about it

oldRagespell · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Its the AMD CPU, they are not made for MMO gaming sadly.

Next big thing i'll see on this forum will be how Earth is flat?

Audigy · October 2014

DivineCrysis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Its the AMD CPU, they are not made for MMO gaming sadly. You can try to OC the CPU, ramp it up to 4 GHz. The GPU has nothing to do with your FPS drops, its the lack of core power in AMDs architecture.

People with intel processors are having the same fps problem in Cyrodiil. PvP is just unoptimized right now; so all you can do is wait for them to do something about it

They don't actually.

I run an i5 and don't have any issues. ESO does only address a single core, all the rendering work is done in a single thread and as slower the CPU cores are as bigger the problems will be.

Its been like this for many years now with AMD, the first big miss was AOC with the old Athlon XP CPUs, if you had an intel CPU you could play fine but AMD was lagging as hell.

That ESO is poorly optimized is right but this doesn't change the fact that intel customers have less or no problems with the game.

Sanrai · October 2014

Have been having this problem since May, when I first started. I refuse to get my computer redone to play a game.
Am playing at 20 fps at the high side .... Although, sometimes I have seen 30+ fps, and the game becomes fun. I'm only 36 lvl at this point, so no Cyrodil involved.
You are lucky.

Moonshadow66 · October 2014

ShiunTraze wrote: »

[...]just like other people I have a really horrible problem with FPS in the game $:\$ . In towns/cities I get around 30,40-50/60 fps which some could say is okay but it lags at points and always does this, there are frequent, sudden drops in fps and this leads to a short lag. All in all it isnt that much but can be very annoying because i want a smooth experience. In Cyrodiil it's the worst, I get around 20fps in battles and its practically unplayable for me. [...]

Horrible problem? Usually I'm not one who gives an "LOL", but this time I couldn't resist. You obviously don't know at all what horrible fps is. If this is a problem for you, I gladly want to have your problems.

How about 20 fps average in normal zones (rarely above 30 nowadays), and 4 (FOUR!!!) in Cyrodiil?

I don't even know why 30-60 should be a problem since it's not like it messes up your brain while looking at the screen. Try this on my computer, especially in Cyrodiil. You'll probably need a doctor after 10 minutes, provided it doesn't crash in the meantime.

Oh, btw, my computer meets the normal requirements, so... yeah.

DivineCrysis · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

DivineCrysis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Its the AMD CPU, they are not made for MMO gaming sadly. You can try to OC the CPU, ramp it up to 4 GHz. The GPU has nothing to do with your FPS drops, its the lack of core power in AMDs architecture.

People with intel processors are having the same fps problem in Cyrodiil. PvP is just unoptimized right now; so all you can do is wait for them to do something about it

They don't actually.

I run an i5 and don't have any issues. ESO does only address a single core, all the rendering work is done in a single thread and as slower the CPU cores are as bigger the problems will be.

Its been like this for many years now with AMD, the first big miss was AOC with the old Athlon XP CPUs, if you had an intel CPU you could play fine but AMD was lagging as hell.

That ESO is poorly optimized is right but this doesn't change the fact that intel customers have less or no problems with the game.

You're trying to prove your point with anecdotal evidence and that doesn't work. There are plenty of people on the forums with intel processors and mid to high end specs that have reported fps problems. I run an amd cpu and am able to max out everything and get 60+ fps everywhere but large battles in Cyrodiil.

ShiunTraze · October 2014

Raygee wrote: »

ShiunTraze wrote: »

[...]just like other people I have a really horrible problem with FPS in the game $:\$ . In towns/cities I get around 30,40-50/60 fps which some could say is okay but it lags at points and always does this, there are frequent, sudden drops in fps and this leads to a short lag. All in all it isnt that much but can be very annoying because i want a smooth experience. In Cyrodiil it's the worst, I get around 20fps in battles and its practically unplayable for me. [...]

Horrible problem? Usually I'm not one who gives an "LOL", but this time I couldn't resist. You obviously don't know at all what horrible fps is. If this is a problem for you, I gladly want to have your problems.

How about 20 fps average in normal zones (rarely above 30 nowadays), and 4 (FOUR!!!) in Cyrodiil?

I don't even know why 30-60 should be a problem since it's not like it messes up your brain while looking at the screen. Try this on my computer, especially in Cyrodiil. You'll probably need a doctor after 10 minutes, provided it doesn't crash in the meantime.

Oh, btw, my computer meets the normal requirements, so... yeah.

Well it's still a problem, i just do not know if it is to do with my computer (which it really shouldn't be ) or that the devs HAVE to do something about it

Moonshadow66 · October 2014

ShiunTraze wrote: »

Raygee wrote: »

ShiunTraze wrote: »

[...]just like other people I have a really horrible problem with FPS in the game $:\$ . In towns/cities I get around 30,40-50/60 fps which some could say is okay but it lags at points and always does this, there are frequent, sudden drops in fps and this leads to a short lag. All in all it isnt that much but can be very annoying because i want a smooth experience. In Cyrodiil it's the worst, I get around 20fps in battles and its practically unplayable for me. [...]

Horrible problem? Usually I'm not one who gives an "LOL", but this time I couldn't resist. You obviously don't know at all what horrible fps is. If this is a problem for you, I gladly want to have your problems.

How about 20 fps average in normal zones (rarely above 30 nowadays), and 4 (FOUR!!!) in Cyrodiil?

I don't even know why 30-60 should be a problem since it's not like it messes up your brain while looking at the screen. Try this on my computer, especially in Cyrodiil. You'll probably need a doctor after 10 minutes, provided it doesn't crash in the meantime.

Oh, btw, my computer meets the normal requirements, so... yeah.

Well it's still a problem, i just do not know if it is to do with my computer (which it really shouldn't be ) or that the devs HAVE to do something about it

True, it still is. And sorry for my "tone", I was just tired of the fps on my end and when I saw someone complaining/asking while even having 5x more, I lost it

But, I think it IS the devs who have to do something about it, apparently for so many people it often looks like using Bolt Escape.. without using it.

Gedalya · October 2014

I suspect that this problem relates to bandwidth; try closing out programs you are not using that might be hogging your bandwidth while you play. Applications like Steam and Origin for example can and will decide to update in the background depending on settings. Also check your Virus Software; it may be running a scan at start up which easily eats up processing power. Programs that eat bandwidth and processing power are your likely culprits. Hope this helps and don't hesitate to reach out to ZoS with a ticket.

Moonshadow66 · October 2014

Gedalya wrote: »

I suspect that this problem relates to bandwidth; try closing out programs you are not using that might be hogging your bandwidth while you play. Applications like Steam and Origin for example can and will decide to update in the background depending on settings. Also check your Virus Software; it may be running a scan at start up which easily eats up processing power. Programs that eat bandwidth and processing power are your likely culprits. Hope this helps and don't hesitate to reach out to ZoS with a ticket.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I checked all this a long time ago already, didn't help. I only have that low fps playing ESO, not when playing any other game and/or doing internet stuff etc.
Also, nothing is running in the background which could slow it down, I got used to close these processes first before starting a bigger program/game a long time ago on my old machine.
I sent tons of tickets already, but everything they said started with the usual "we know how frustrating this can be" and ends with suggestions I've tried already (which didn't help).

ShiunTraze · October 2014

I agree with Raygee, trying the same actions to change this just doesn't help. They need to actually do something about this

Lionxoft · October 2014

Gedalya wrote: »

I suspect that this problem relates to bandwidth; try closing out programs you are not using that might be hogging your bandwidth while you play. Applications like Steam and Origin for example can and will decide to update in the background depending on settings. Also check your Virus Software; it may be running a scan at start up which easily eats up processing power. Programs that eat bandwidth and processing power are your likely culprits. Hope this helps and don't hesitate to reach out to ZoS with a ticket.

Bolded for humor.

They have no clue what the problem is or they know but just don't have a solution handed to them by the developers. Support can't help you with this.

Silver-Sabre · October 2014

I am happy to be playing at 20 fps .. Laptop warrior

Leeric · October 2014

You need more Ram bro.

Ourorboros · October 2014

I played smooth as silk at high FPS from early launch up to 'maintenance' two weeks ago. Since then it's been a constant stutter. No changes on my side. So either my PC mysteriously decided to act up or something changed on the server side. It's not impossible that I have a PC issue, but since complaints about this issue started to ramp up about the same time my issue started, it follows that we are looking at an unacknowledged server and/or patch issue. BTW, I haven't been to Cyrodil in last two weeks, so my stutter is not that issue.

Moonshadow66 · November 2014

Ourorboros wrote: »

I played smooth as silk at high FPS from early launch up to 'maintenance' two weeks ago. Since then it's been a constant stutter. No changes on my side. So either my PC mysteriously decided to act up or something changed on the server side. It's not impossible that I have a PC issue, but since complaints about this issue started to ramp up about the same time my issue started, it follows that we are looking at an unacknowledged server and/or patch issue. BTW, I haven't been to Cyrodil in last two weeks, so my stutter is not that issue.

Exactly, it started to get worse (or started at all) around that time.

Well, I just played for some hours, it was worse than ever.. the fps dropped down to 0-5 all the time, then went up to above 30, sometimes even 50 (which is rare).
Since today I'm in Bangkorai with one of my characters and it was a trip through hell with that low fps, but when I've done it last time with my main, I had no problems there.
At one point when I was about to kill a world boss (solo), the PC gave me these error beeps several times when I tried to hit the spell buttons, the lag was not bareable anymore, not even for the PC.. This sound I've had before already, also after the mentioned maintainance.

Also, the responsiveness is the hell on earth nowadays, sometimes it takes several seconds for me to actually SEE what I was doing. And the sound stutters as well every now and then.

I don't want to say this, but if it stays like this, I don't have any other choice but to leave, I'm sorry. I simply cannot take the risk that my PC "burns down to the ground" just because of that. And I certainly won't change my setup just because 1 game doesn't run as it should. My PC meets the requirements, so I expect the game to work, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

Demira · November 2014

I have an amd quad core and having trouble with the frames also ...this needs to be looked into ...please!

Lord_Kreegan · November 2014

Everyone talks to “lag” and bandwidth without really understanding the issue, or blames their anti-virus software or other programs running in the background. Yeah, we all have a ton of stuff running in the background; I shudder every time I look at my task manager at all the services Microsoft has deemed necessary to run in the background on my PC. I have minimized the crap on my system, but there’s still a lot… at least that problem can be solved to an extent by running ESO at a high priority.

LAG is network latency. With modern network architecture, unless net code is horribly written or you live down in the boondocks [hmmm… sounds like a good name for a song], you’re probably not experiencing lag per se. There are some potential issues with their net-code; when you enter a highly populated area for the first time, it appears as if they are using a “push” approach to feed you a lot of data at once [rather than take a “trickle” approach]. No big deal, really; if you’ve got any reasonable data rate, the network can handle it unless your local infrastructure is unreliable (requiring lots of retrans); they are most likely using UDP services with some kind of ACK/NAK scheme since TCP/IP is so inherently inefficient in terms of bandwidth utilization. Just guessing… maybe there’s some new rocket-scientist net-code techniques out there now; I’ve been retired for four years and shed my rocket-scientist “Cloak of All-Knowing So I Can *** Off the Idiot MBAs” back then, so if there’s something new I’m not aware of it.

I am 50ms from the server and on the same net infrastructure, yet I often see horrendous frame rates. I am convinced the problem isn’t network latency at all.

What most people are experiencing, I think, is a combination of other factors:

The game architecture uses primarily discrete event simulation techniques (my forte for 40 years) instead of multi-threading. Besides the fact that the lack of multi-threading makes multi-core capability next to useless, improper prioritization of events within that architecture can seriously screw up what gets displayed. Since most of ZOS’ programmers probably fall into the journeyman category (since companies don’t like hiring rocket-scientists because we cost a lot and that takes money away from the bonuses paid to the idiot, useless MBAs in the management team), it is likely that they don’t have a lot of experience with discrete event simulation techniques and event prioritization is an issue.
Lack of memory management; i.e. reliance on OS garbage collection to manage memory or use of caching techniques (e.g., see SW-TOR) which are inherently too slow to keep up with game demand. I suggest this because game performance very obviously degrades over time; as you consume memory and then “discard” it, eventually you butt up against needing to wait for the OS garbage collection functionality to coalesce fragments of memory to meet the game’s demand. If you’ve ever played SW-TOR, you’ve noticed that out of nowhere you’ll suddenly get a loading screen… usually right when you’re about to walk off a cliff or encounter a boss… Up front, EA/BioWare will tell you that they do this to “let the client catch up”… read that to mean, “let the OS catch up”. That’s about the most honest acknowledgment you’ll ever get from any developer (and I am absolutely loathe to call BioWare honest in anything they do). Several factors play into this:
- a. ESO is a 32-bit game, so even if you have 16GB of RAM, it’s not going to address it… and how many brainiacs out there have 16GB of RAM, but are using a 32-bit OS? Hey, it’s your money… but you might want to start saving it for retirement. Just like me, you’ll end up there someday, even if you don’t want to.
- b. Graphics use a lot of memory, constantly allocating and deallocating memory, which causes memory fragmentation. The memory used for display is not all on the video cards… especially if you’re using one of NVidia’s GTX-series cards (different issues). With Microsoft’s DirectX scheme, there is a virtual Hardware Abstraction Layer created in your RAM to emulate functionality not physically present on your card. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got the latest, greatest Series 9000 HAL graphics card, some of your RAM will be used for that purpose. It’s Microsoft. Microsoft does whatever it wants. Microsoft tells us what we need and then fills up our RAM with their junk. Microsoft tells us to buy what they sell, whether or not we want it. Microsoft is controlling Obama; you can tell by all the bugs in his operations… We’re screwed… Okay, pardon my diatribe…
- c. Game structures/classes/arrays/etc. that are constantly in flux; e.g. entering a large town for the first time (e.g. Daggerfall) with lots of players requires the game servers to push lots of data to your client. A whole lot of memory has to be allocated on your client’s machine to locally store that info… and then be deallocated when players leave the area or your character leaves the area. While I don’t know how ZOS has defined their spheres of influence to determine how many characters are tracked at any time, it’s pretty clear this is happening based on the differences in game performance in, for instance, the wilds of Glenumbra vice within the walls of the city.
- d. Sound… yeah, everyone loves a fully voiced game with lots of sound effects and lips moving and background music and birds chirping, etc. [You want immersion? Okay, where are the sounds of wives nagging their husbands? Obviously, there’s not enough memory for that…] What is one of the biggest contributors to memory fragmentation? Sounds… they come in little snips and pieces, but they constantly come. Fragments of memory are constantly allocated and deallocated. You want to see some improvement in game? Turn off all sounds… You’ll still run out of free memory eventually, but it will take longer.
Lack of performance optimization – this is a catch-all because it includes everything from net-code to flat out bad coding. Is ESO badly coded? I don’t think so; not from what I’ve seen since coming back to the game. Was it originally badly coded? Absolutely. Does it still require optimization? Probably; what game doesn’t? I wrote, led, managed, directed, produced, and was the executive over millions upon millions of lines of code over the years, and I always felt the code was sub-optimal no matter how hard I tried to make it “perfect”. The old rub of “you spend 10% of your time and budget building 90% of the product, then 90% of your time and budget trying to get it (that last 10% of the product) perfect” is not anywhere close to accurate, but you can easily create budget overruns and schedule slips by trying to be perfect. So, with a focus on budget (except their own) and schedule, if the marketing team has too much push, then you will end up with a bad release… ahem… however, there has to be some insistence on some perfection. But, ultimately you’re always in need of performance optimization.
Lack of QA (read that to also mean lack of proper product testing) – very, very obvious for ESO. Yes, this causes hitching… Why? Because problems aren’t nipped in the bud. Invariably, each patch you put out makes problems worse… because you never catch up. In the old days back before most players’ parents were dirty thoughts in their grandparents’ minds, QA was staffed with the most experienced, most ornery, best educated, most talented, and most handsome and beautiful men and women available to the development team. You can also read that to mean the most highly paid… These were development staff with the authority to tell the marketers and programming team to not so politely “got to Hell” if they tried to push a bad product forward. Nowadays, QA consists of low paid interns with no authority to do anything other than rubberstamp product releases. Plus there is the problem that if a programmer or level designer can’t spell “cat” or use proper grammar in display text, it is unlikely that the QA team has anyone who can spell or use proper grammar, either… and neither team owns a dictionary… that’s not in the budget, either. Ultimately, bad QA (or lack of QA) and bad testing means that performance impacts show up after every new release. We all saw (during Beta) how badly testing was done before the original release; Beta was nothing more than part of the marketing plan. Unfortunately, that’s all too true nowadays in this industry.

It’s the damn MBAs, I tell you… those guys in the marketing shop trying to make a short-term profit and pass all risks to the customers. That’s why you’re seeing the graphical hitching. Fire all the MBAs and the hitching will go away.
And Microsoft; fire Microsoft… and my wife; stop the incessant nagging. That will definitely make the hitching go away.

Back to NVidia for a second: the GTX series of graphics cards were developed specifically with the intent of supplementing on-card memory with system memory (as “shadow memory”). In and of itself, not a bad design… EXCEPT that the design requires a significant amount of bus access… at the same time a game like ESO has extraordinary bus access requirements. Depending on the bus speed in your PC, that may also impact display performance; it’s very easy to get bus-contention. You can think of your system bus as another network; it has a protocol and it has traffic and it has bandwidth… if you exceed that bandwidth (noting that you have to look at it from a queuing theory perspective, not data rate), then you will see it reflected in performance.