Werewolf Blows, Vampire Glows

MornaBaine · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

Awesome, so now that you both have established how fast and easy it is to build ultimate there should be no problem keeping Werewolf up almost full time right?

Werewolves don't keep ultimate gained in werewolf form. If this was changed it would even the playing field.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

Ok, I'm really trying to understand what makes Vampires so OP compared to Werewolves and I'm just not seeing it.

Comparing them on PTS

Werewolf: Unable to become Werewolf at will, must expend Ultimate to turn. Gains Ultimate when taking damage while in human form.
Vampire: Unable to become Humanoid at will, permanent Health regen debuff lowering Health regen by as much as 75%. Increased damage mitigation when under 50% Health.

Werewolf: Receives 50% increased damage from Poison (The least prevalent form of damage in the game.)
Vampire: Receives 50% increased damage from Fire (the most prevalent form of damage in the game.)

Werewolf Ultimate: PBAOE fear, increased Stamina, increased Armor, increased Run speed, adds DOT to Light attacks and gains access to 5 Werewolf abilities. Lasts 30 seconds but has options to extend duration.
Vampire Ultimate: Bat swarm PBAOE damage + Health return. Lasts 5 seconds.

Vampire abilities: available full time
Drain: 3 second Channeled Stun + damage + HOT. Cannot be reapplied to same target.
Morph 1 - Also recover Ultimate
Morph 2 - adds increased Recovery at night.

Mist: 75% damage reduction. ZERO healing. Duration 4 seconds
Morph 1 - adds Increased movement speed
Morph 2 - adds PBAOE Poison damage

Werewolf abilities: only available while in Werewolf form
Pounce: Damage + Stun
Morph 1 - PBAOE Damage + PBAOE Stun
Morph 2 - Increase Werewolf timer

Hircine Bounty: Instant cast Self Heal
Morph 1 -adds Increase weapon damage 10% for 17 Seconds
Morph 2 - adds Self HOT

Roar: PBAOE Fear, Disorient, Off-Balance
Morph 1 - adds Killing Feared enemies triggers PBAOE Disorient and Off Balance
Morph 2 - adds Increases weapon damage for allies for 10 seconds.

Howl: Damage + Knockdown
Morph 1 - adds increases Light/Heavy attack damage for allies for 15 seconds
Morph 2 - adds Increased damage to Feared targets

Infectious Claws: PBAOE Damage + DOT
Morph 1 - Target receives 40% reduction from Heals
Morph 2 - Player receives HOT

Passives
Vampire - Blood Ritual - Turn player into Vampire
Werewolf - Bloodmoon - Turn player into Werewolf

Vampire - Supernatural Recovery - Increase Magicka and Stamina regen 10%
Werewolf - Increase Stamina recovery from Heavy attacks 100%

Vampire - Savage Feeding - Reduces Health debuff + Self Heal (Can only feed while Hidden)
Werewolf - Devour - extends Werewolf timer + Self Heal

Vampire - Undeath - Increased damage mitigation when below 50%
Werewolf - Gain ultimate when taking damage in Human form

Vampire - Dark Stalker - Increase Stealth movement speed
Werewolf - Savage Strength - Increase Weapon Damage by 18%

Vampire - Unnatural Resistance - reduce Health Regen debuff
Call of the Pack - Increase duration of Werewolf form for allies.

Some Comments on your comparisons
Werewolf Poison vulnerability vs. Vampire Fire Vulnerability.
Or to put it another way…The least prevalent form of damage vs. the most prevalent form of damage.
Not even close Werewolf wins here. The gap becomes even wider when you add that in addition Vampires also get up to a 75% health regen debuff… Werewolf has no debuff.

Then lets get down the skills themselves -- the Vampire ultimate is an ULTIMATE. Holy Bat Swarms, Batman! Devouring swarms of bats that heal while dishing out thousands of points of damage?! What's not to love? What's not to love?

1) The healing just got nerfed.
2) It's a PBAOE. Step out of the circle and suddenly those thousands of points of damage and Healing become zero damage and zero healing.

Where the werewolf "ultimate" only earns that title because you're forced to slot it in your ultimate skill. And it lasts far too short a time and takes a horrendous amount of time to recharge. It is, possibly, the worst Ultimate skill in the game.

Vampire ultimate lasts 5 seconds. Werewolf lasts 30 seconds with options to extend the duration.

Vampires get a drain spell that not only stuns opponents while they're being drained it leaves them stunned afterwards. Crowd control and healing wrapped into one slot on your bar. Awesome! Werewolves get to leap into battle and do some damage. Umm, yeah. Hands (or maybe fangs) down -- vampires win again.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Vampire "Savage Feeding" compared to Werewolf "Devour" would be closer.

Vampire Savage Feeding:
Advantage - Self Heal + Target is stunned + reduce Health debuff
Disadvantage 1 - Only works on Humanoids
Disadvantage 2 - Player must be hidden so cannot be used if detected.
Disadvantage 3 - Cannot be used in combat
Disadvantage 4 - Cannot be used on same target more than once.
Disadvantage 5 - If player is hidden then odds are real good the player is at full health when feeding making any Heal from the ability nonexistent. Have yet to ever receive a single heal from this.

Werewolf Devour:
Advantage - Self Heal + extend Werewolf timer
Disadvantage 1 - Only works on corpses
Disadvantage 2 - Only works while in Werewolf form.

Vampires get the ability to avoid all damage for a few seconds and potentially use it to escape combat. Sure, there's a downside of being "immune" to healing spells but when you want to get your arse out of the battle this is pretty awesome. Wolfies can try casting Howl but it takes a few seconds, seems to be interruptible, and the monsters flee in random directions leaving you still in the middle when they regroup. Can you guess who has the edge here? Yup, Vampires. Again

First, as someone already pointed out, it's a 75% reduction to damage, not 100%. During this time they can not use another ability to do damage or be healed.
The Werewolf answer to this? Why Run?
Roar - PBAOE Fear + Disorientation + Off-Balance followed by your choice of
1) Claws - Instant cast damage to all enemies in front of you while either reducing their healing received by 40% or giving yourself a HOT.
2) Pounce - Instant cast damage + Stun to the targets you just knocked off balance
3) Howl - Instant cast Knockdown for 3 seconds + damage that can be increased by 30% to the targets you just Feared.
4) Hircine Bounty - Instant cast Self Heal which can be morphed to either add a self HOT or increase weapon damage.

I've only used Mistform a couple of times. Frankly, my Vampire is so overpowered compared to the monsters he's facing he doesn't need an escape route. So I must've been lucky and taken no damage while using it. Still, with its instant effect and relatively easy chaining potential it rocks compared to Howl.

Ok, so as a Vamp you don't need an escape route which tells me Mistform is useless. So what is left that makes Vampire so overpowering? Vamps only have 2 other abilities.
Bat swarm? It requires ultimate and only lasts 5 seconds so can hardly be spammed.
Drain? 3 second Channeled Stun + damage + HOT. Cannot be reapplied to same target while leaving you open to attack from other enemies while channeling. Does anyone actually keep this up on their bar?
That's it, those are the only abilities that Vamps have.

And with the Justice System coming I failed to note that Vampires get a stealth advantage. Yeah, just another benefit for the Children of Lamae.

Vampires that have not fed recently will be KOS to all guards. Werewolves would only be KOS if they transformed in front of the guards. And Vampire stealth doesn't make them any less likely to be detected, it just allows them to move quicker. Unless you’re a NB in which case it really doesn't do anything at all.

Trying? Its a no brainer.

A near spammable insane ultimate that when in stage 4 coupled with ult reduction class passives allows for costs as low as 100ish ult that moves with you and returns life while damaging everything in a huge radius. Some builds can sustain it indefinitely while being almost invincible to multiple enemy players.

Vamp passives work in human form.
Damage reduction passive at low health.

That's why in a nutshell.

^

You say that like we the Vampire players designed it that way. If ZOS would think instead of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAVE THE NERFBAT THE KIDS ARE CRYING" and make Bat Swarm cost more and be immune to Ultimate cost reduction, there wouldn't be NEARLY as much Vampire hate as there is now.

Yes they made vamps that way. No, its not balanced. Nerf is necessary.
Your point?

Point primarily being that people keep bringing their rage over mechanics issues into a discussion in such a way that is not helpful or thoughtful.

Vatter · October 2014

1. on live you cannot CC break while in werewolf form but you can as a vampire
Means in pvp you can just chain cc a wolf to death.

2. when werewolves change back to human form you lose all ultimate.

3. werewolf abilities are only accessible while in werewolf form. vampires have 100% access all the time

4. vamp ultimate and werewolf ultimate have almost 300 point difference to activate.

Vampire wins hands down.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

Awesome, so now that you both have established how fast and easy it is to build ultimate there should be no problem keeping Werewolf up almost full time right?

Werewolves don't keep ultimate gained in werewolf form. If this was changed it would even the playing field.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

Ok, I'm really trying to understand what makes Vampires so OP compared to Werewolves and I'm just not seeing it.

Comparing them on PTS

Werewolf: Unable to become Werewolf at will, must expend Ultimate to turn. Gains Ultimate when taking damage while in human form.
Vampire: Unable to become Humanoid at will, permanent Health regen debuff lowering Health regen by as much as 75%. Increased damage mitigation when under 50% Health.

Werewolf: Receives 50% increased damage from Poison (The least prevalent form of damage in the game.)
Vampire: Receives 50% increased damage from Fire (the most prevalent form of damage in the game.)

Werewolf Ultimate: PBAOE fear, increased Stamina, increased Armor, increased Run speed, adds DOT to Light attacks and gains access to 5 Werewolf abilities. Lasts 30 seconds but has options to extend duration.
Vampire Ultimate: Bat swarm PBAOE damage + Health return. Lasts 5 seconds.

Vampire abilities: available full time
Drain: 3 second Channeled Stun + damage + HOT. Cannot be reapplied to same target.
Morph 1 - Also recover Ultimate
Morph 2 - adds increased Recovery at night.

Mist: 75% damage reduction. ZERO healing. Duration 4 seconds
Morph 1 - adds Increased movement speed
Morph 2 - adds PBAOE Poison damage

Werewolf abilities: only available while in Werewolf form
Pounce: Damage + Stun
Morph 1 - PBAOE Damage + PBAOE Stun
Morph 2 - Increase Werewolf timer

Hircine Bounty: Instant cast Self Heal
Morph 1 -adds Increase weapon damage 10% for 17 Seconds
Morph 2 - adds Self HOT

Roar: PBAOE Fear, Disorient, Off-Balance
Morph 1 - adds Killing Feared enemies triggers PBAOE Disorient and Off Balance
Morph 2 - adds Increases weapon damage for allies for 10 seconds.

Howl: Damage + Knockdown
Morph 1 - adds increases Light/Heavy attack damage for allies for 15 seconds
Morph 2 - adds Increased damage to Feared targets

Infectious Claws: PBAOE Damage + DOT
Morph 1 - Target receives 40% reduction from Heals
Morph 2 - Player receives HOT

Passives
Vampire - Blood Ritual - Turn player into Vampire
Werewolf - Bloodmoon - Turn player into Werewolf

Vampire - Supernatural Recovery - Increase Magicka and Stamina regen 10%
Werewolf - Increase Stamina recovery from Heavy attacks 100%

Vampire - Savage Feeding - Reduces Health debuff + Self Heal (Can only feed while Hidden)
Werewolf - Devour - extends Werewolf timer + Self Heal

Vampire - Undeath - Increased damage mitigation when below 50%
Werewolf - Gain ultimate when taking damage in Human form

Vampire - Dark Stalker - Increase Stealth movement speed
Werewolf - Savage Strength - Increase Weapon Damage by 18%

Vampire - Unnatural Resistance - reduce Health Regen debuff
Call of the Pack - Increase duration of Werewolf form for allies.

Some Comments on your comparisons
Werewolf Poison vulnerability vs. Vampire Fire Vulnerability.
Or to put it another way…The least prevalent form of damage vs. the most prevalent form of damage.
Not even close Werewolf wins here. The gap becomes even wider when you add that in addition Vampires also get up to a 75% health regen debuff… Werewolf has no debuff.

Then lets get down the skills themselves -- the Vampire ultimate is an ULTIMATE. Holy Bat Swarms, Batman! Devouring swarms of bats that heal while dishing out thousands of points of damage?! What's not to love? What's not to love?

1) The healing just got nerfed.
2) It's a PBAOE. Step out of the circle and suddenly those thousands of points of damage and Healing become zero damage and zero healing.

Where the werewolf "ultimate" only earns that title because you're forced to slot it in your ultimate skill. And it lasts far too short a time and takes a horrendous amount of time to recharge. It is, possibly, the worst Ultimate skill in the game.

Vampire ultimate lasts 5 seconds. Werewolf lasts 30 seconds with options to extend the duration.

Vampires get a drain spell that not only stuns opponents while they're being drained it leaves them stunned afterwards. Crowd control and healing wrapped into one slot on your bar. Awesome! Werewolves get to leap into battle and do some damage. Umm, yeah. Hands (or maybe fangs) down -- vampires win again.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Vampire "Savage Feeding" compared to Werewolf "Devour" would be closer.

Vampire Savage Feeding:
Advantage - Self Heal + Target is stunned + reduce Health debuff
Disadvantage 1 - Only works on Humanoids
Disadvantage 2 - Player must be hidden so cannot be used if detected.
Disadvantage 3 - Cannot be used in combat
Disadvantage 4 - Cannot be used on same target more than once.
Disadvantage 5 - If player is hidden then odds are real good the player is at full health when feeding making any Heal from the ability nonexistent. Have yet to ever receive a single heal from this.

Werewolf Devour:
Advantage - Self Heal + extend Werewolf timer
Disadvantage 1 - Only works on corpses
Disadvantage 2 - Only works while in Werewolf form.

Vampires get the ability to avoid all damage for a few seconds and potentially use it to escape combat. Sure, there's a downside of being "immune" to healing spells but when you want to get your arse out of the battle this is pretty awesome. Wolfies can try casting Howl but it takes a few seconds, seems to be interruptible, and the monsters flee in random directions leaving you still in the middle when they regroup. Can you guess who has the edge here? Yup, Vampires. Again

First, as someone already pointed out, it's a 75% reduction to damage, not 100%. During this time they can not use another ability to do damage or be healed.
The Werewolf answer to this? Why Run?
Roar - PBAOE Fear + Disorientation + Off-Balance followed by your choice of
1) Claws - Instant cast damage to all enemies in front of you while either reducing their healing received by 40% or giving yourself a HOT.
2) Pounce - Instant cast damage + Stun to the targets you just knocked off balance
3) Howl - Instant cast Knockdown for 3 seconds + damage that can be increased by 30% to the targets you just Feared.
4) Hircine Bounty - Instant cast Self Heal which can be morphed to either add a self HOT or increase weapon damage.

I've only used Mistform a couple of times. Frankly, my Vampire is so overpowered compared to the monsters he's facing he doesn't need an escape route. So I must've been lucky and taken no damage while using it. Still, with its instant effect and relatively easy chaining potential it rocks compared to Howl.

Ok, so as a Vamp you don't need an escape route which tells me Mistform is useless. So what is left that makes Vampire so overpowering? Vamps only have 2 other abilities.
Bat swarm? It requires ultimate and only lasts 5 seconds so can hardly be spammed.
Drain? 3 second Channeled Stun + damage + HOT. Cannot be reapplied to same target while leaving you open to attack from other enemies while channeling. Does anyone actually keep this up on their bar?
That's it, those are the only abilities that Vamps have.

And with the Justice System coming I failed to note that Vampires get a stealth advantage. Yeah, just another benefit for the Children of Lamae.

Vampires that have not fed recently will be KOS to all guards. Werewolves would only be KOS if they transformed in front of the guards. And Vampire stealth doesn't make them any less likely to be detected, it just allows them to move quicker. Unless you’re a NB in which case it really doesn't do anything at all.

Trying? Its a no brainer.

A near spammable insane ultimate that when in stage 4 coupled with ult reduction class passives allows for costs as low as 100ish ult that moves with you and returns life while damaging everything in a huge radius. Some builds can sustain it indefinitely while being almost invincible to multiple enemy players.

Vamp passives work in human form.
Damage reduction passive at low health.

That's why in a nutshell.

^

You say that like we the Vampire players designed it that way. If ZOS would think instead of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAVE THE NERFBAT THE KIDS ARE CRYING" and make Bat Swarm cost more and be immune to Ultimate cost reduction, there wouldn't be NEARLY as much Vampire hate as there is now.

Yes they made vamps that way. No, its not balanced. Nerf is necessary.
Your point?

My point is they're nerfing the wrong thing. Increase the Ultimate cost, make it Immune to Ultimate cost reduction.

All they're seeing is "OUCH IT HURTS TO MUCH" or "VAMPYR R INVINCBLE STAHP IT" so they act accordingly. Nerfing the damage here, nerfing the health returned there.

The main problem is the frequency at which some builds are able to utilize Bat Swarm. Not the amount of damage it does, or the health it gives back. It's an Ultimate, it's supposed to be a big attack.

What it's not supposed to be is as cheap as it is for the amount of hurt it puts out.

Did I illustrate my point more clearly with that statement?

Darkeus · October 2014

you forgot to say that vampire drain skill is pretty much useless vs bosses... cause they are "too strong for that effect"... basicaly isnt that great

Nightreaver · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Werewolves don't keep ultimate gained in werewolf form. If this was changed it would even the playing field.

And your point?
My comment was made in response to your claim that builds can sustain Bat swarm indefinitely. If someone can generate that much ultimate in just 5 seconds then generating sufficient Ultimate to quickly recast Werewolf shouldn't be a concern either.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Yes they made vamps that way. No, its not balanced. Nerf is necessary.
Your point?

Well if you're going to play that game then I can too.
Your right, its not balanced, Nerf is necessary, Werewolves are way to OP.

Vamps are a one trick pony and that trick isn't that impressive.
I run into a Vamp, I see bats, I treat it as if it were a red circle and just move out of the way for a couple seconds until they disappear. He wants to spend the few seconds that the bats are up chasing me, fine. If I don't want him moving there is always Fear, Snare, knockdown, disorientate, knock off-balance, stun to prevent that. He does no damage and gets no heals. Knowing he's a Vampire I can hit him with Fire for a 50% damage bonus.

I run into a Werewolf, he fears, disorientates, knocks me Off-balance, knocks me down, stuns me, DOTs me and then proceeds to tear me apart. I try to run, he has teleport to target and increased run speed. WAIT, he takes extra damage from Poison, #$%, don't have an ability that does Poison damage.

So which one would you rather run into?
Vampire of course, it's really a no brainer.

Nightreaver · October 2014

4. vamp ultimate and werewolf ultimate have almost 300 point difference to activate.

@Vatter
Not sure what the difference is on Live but on PTS it is 200. With Ultimate cost reduction + Vamp stage 4 I can increase the gap to 212. Werewolves also gain Ultimate just by taking damage to help close that gap.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

My point is they're nerfing the wrong thing. Increase the Ultimate cost, make it Immune to Ultimate cost reduction.

If they feel the ability is too easily spammed or that the Ultimate cost is too low then increasing the cost would be one solution. But I would be careful with what you wish for if you are suggesting that the Vamp Ultimate be immune to cost reduction. I don't see how you can argue to make the Vamp ultimate immune to cost reduction without making the Werewolf Ultimate immune which is affected even greater by cost reduction.

If you are referring to the cost reduction from the different stages of being a Vampire then you might suggest instead to change that ability to "reduce the MAGIC cost of Vampires abilities which would then exclude the Ultimate. F.Y.I. each stage reduces the cost by 14 ultimate. (At least when I tested it on PTS) This was a total cost reduction of 42 at Vamp stage 4 for me.

Another possible solution.
If Werewolves lose all Ultimate when changing back to Human (their Ultimate expires) then another suggestion would be for all Ultimate accumulated while using the vamp Ultimate "Bat swarm" be reset to zero when the Ultimate expires. This should prevent people from being able to keep it up indefinitely.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Nightreaver wrote: »

4. vamp ultimate and werewolf ultimate have almost 300 point difference to activate.

@Vatter
Not sure what the difference is on Live but on PTS it is 200. With Ultimate cost reduction + Vamp stage 4 I can increase the gap to 212. Werewolves also gain Ultimate just by taking damage to help close that gap.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

My point is they're nerfing the wrong thing. Increase the Ultimate cost, make it Immune to Ultimate cost reduction.

If they feel the ability is too easily spammed or that the Ultimate cost is too low then increasing the cost would be one solution. But I would be careful with what you wish for if you are suggesting that the Vamp Ultimate be immune to cost reduction. I don't see how you can argue to make the Vamp ultimate immune to cost reduction without making the Werewolf Ultimate immune which is affected even greater by cost reduction.

If you are referring to the cost reduction from the different stages of being a Vampire then you might suggest instead to change that ability to "reduce the MAGIC cost of Vampires abilities which would then exclude the Ultimate. F.Y.I. each stage reduces the cost by 14 ultimate. (At least when I tested it on PTS) This was a total cost reduction of 42 at Vamp stage 4 for me.

Another possible solution.
If Werewolves lose all Ultimate when changing back to Human (their Ultimate expires) then another suggestion would be for all Ultimate accumulated while using the vamp Ultimate "Bat swarm" be reset to zero when the Ultimate expires. This should prevent people from being able to keep it up indefinitely.

Oh easily. Take Sorcerer for instance, they get a blanket max of 15% Ultimate cost reduction. Make them a vampire. At Stage 4, they receive a 21% reduction to vampirism abilities. So right then and there they can essentially get to pop their Ultimate at a 36% reduced cost.

Factoring in their combo of Streak, which stuns and disorients everything it hits, slamming their face into Impulse or Elemental Ring until their Ulti bar is full, popping Bat Swarm, Impulse for the 6 seconds Swarm is up, gathering Ulti the whole time, and allowing them to just about be able to pop another Bat Swarm at the end of it.

Making Bat Swarm cost a reasonable amount of Ultimate, that's immune to reduction would be more than enough to assuage the crying masses that feel Vampire to be OP.

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

Nightreaver wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Werewolves don't keep ultimate gained in werewolf form. If this was changed it would even the playing field.

And your point?
My comment was made in response to your claim that builds can sustain Bat swarm indefinitely. If someone can generate that much ultimate in just 5 seconds then generating sufficient Ultimate to quickly recast Werewolf shouldn't be a concern either.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Yes they made vamps that way. No, its not balanced. Nerf is necessary.
Your point?

Well if you're going to play that game then I can too.
Your right, its not balanced, Nerf is necessary, Werewolves are way to OP.

Vamps are a one trick pony and that trick isn't that impressive.
I run into a Vamp, I see bats, I treat it as if it were a red circle and just move out of the way for a couple seconds until they disappear. He wants to spend the few seconds that the bats are up chasing me, fine. If I don't want him moving there is always Fear, Snare, knockdown, disorientate, knock off-balance, stun to prevent that. He does no damage and gets no heals. Knowing he's a Vampire I can hit him with Fire for a 50% damage bonus.

I run into a Werewolf, he fears, disorientates, knocks me Off-balance, knocks me down, stuns me, DOTs me and then proceeds to tear me apart. I try to run, he has teleport to target and increased run speed. WAIT, he takes extra damage from Poison, #$%, don't have an ability that does Poison damage.

So which one would you rather run into?
Vampire of course, it's really a no brainer.

You are probably the only person on record to QQ about the very underpowered werewolf. You know what happens when I've encountered a werewolf? I hit them 2 times for 1200 non crit using lethal arrow. Other encounters I used cc a few times and they transformed back then I silver shared them to death. You have no real logic or reason in your argument. You are just a mad vampire.

Nightreaver · October 2014

@WraithAzraiel
I'm not disagreeing that there is a problem with the Bat Ultimate but I do disagree with the solution.
If you have an item or an ability that reduces Ultimate then it either works or it doesn't. I think there will be a bigger problem if they change to where it works on some Ultimates but not on others. OR they come back and change it so that Ultimate cost reductions no longer work on World Ultimates in which case Werewolves get hit harder than Vampires.
Having Ultimate reset to zero when an Ultimate expires would at least be consistent with Werewolves and prevent people from being able to recast Bat Swarm as soon as it ends.
And if it takes less than 6 seconds to generate sufficient Ultimate to recast Bat swarm then it should only take what, 15 to 20 seconds to generate enough ultimate to cast Werewolf?

Another issue I have with Bat swarm is the huge range of the ability. If Impulse is being reduced from a 16M diameter circle to a 12M diameter circle because it was determined that it was too large then how is that a 20M diameter circle for the PBAOE Bat swarm is acceptable?

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You are probably the only person on record to QQ about the very underpowered werewolf.

I completely agree that Werewolves on Live have been underpowered but with 1.5 going Live next week and all the changes to Werewolf that come with it, I'm really not interested in what Werewolves used to be like, only in what they will be.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You know what happens when I've encountered a werewolf? I hit them 2 times for 1200 non crit using lethal arrow.

If you are able to kill a Werewolf with 2 arrows then you are able to kill a Vampire doing the same. Being at range you are obviously not taking any damage from Bat swarm which means the vamp would not be doing any damage or getting any heals. And Vamps have no more health than Werewolf, in fact they have less due to the 75% reduction to Health regen.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Other encounters I used cc a few times and they transformed back then I silver shared them to death.

Pro Tip: Silver Shards work on Vampires too. And with a 28M range that would put you well out of the range of Bat Swarm.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You have no real logic or reason in your argument. You are just a mad vampire.

Mad? LOL, you could remove both Vampires and Werewolves from the game and it wouldn't phase me in the least. I just never cared for the overly dramatic crying for abilities they don't use to be nerfed rather than make suggestions to make the abilities that they do use better.
And as far as logic...I'm still waiting to hear some from you.

WraithAzraiel · November 2014

ZOS already mentioned they're reworking how Ultimate generation works in an effort to balance it out between fast-ticking DoT builds and slower burst builds at the Guild Summit. There's going to be changes to Ultimate likely across the board once the Champion System creeps closer to launch.

We'll see