Paul Sage on Barber/new hairstyles/character customization

MornaBaine · October 2014

Hairstyles mentioned at 1:08:30
Are there going to be more hairstyles/customization options added?

"Yes but...."
"It's in the longer term plans but is definitely something we want to do..."

He first mentions that there are short term, medium and long range plans. So guess what folks, this is wayyyy on the back burner! How do you feel about that? It frankly ticks ME right the frak off! Improved facial animations of NPCs was MORE IMPORTANT than the customization of PLAYER CHARACTERS???? ARE YOU FRAKING KIDDING ME???? Discuss!

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUOLSng-F8#t=4983

Tabbycat · October 2014

1. I'll repeat my statement from the other thread that Gina and Jason should host every episode of ESO Live because they are awesome together.

2. I don't think I have ever played an MMO that has as much character customization as ESO does.

3. I would love to have a hair length slider like we had in Oblivion. Imagine the hair possibilities.

4. If you've been on the PTS you will see why FaceFX is awesome.

adean27 · October 2014

He never did answer the question in regards to adding Jason Leavey's Hair to the game though.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Tabbycat wrote: »

1. I'll repeat my statement from the other thread that Gina and Jason should host every episode of ESO Live because they are awesome together.

2. I don't think I have ever played an MMO that has as much character customization as ESO does.

3. I would love to have a hair length slider like we had in Oblivion. Imagine the hair possibilities.

4. If you've been on the PTS you will see why FaceFX is awesome.

Oh I LIKE that NPCs will have better expression but to think that this minor thing was implemented, given time and resources, over things that would have been awesome to have for PLAYERS is what ticks me off. I could truly give a rat's behind whether or not the NPC I'm talking to looks more "lifelike." I DO care a great deal that I can't bear to make a new character because I absolutely LOATHE most of the currently available hairstyles and have already used the very few tolerable ones on my existing characters.

Elsonso · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Hairstyles mentioned at 1:08:30
Are there going to be more hairstyles/customization options added?

"Yes but...."
"It's in the longer term plans but is definitely something we want to do..."

He first mentions that there are short term, medium and long range plans. So guess what folks, this is wayyyy on the back burner! How do you feel about that? It frankly ticks ME right the frak off! Improved facial animations of NPCs was MORE IMPORTANT than the customization of PLAYER CHARACTERS???? ARE YOU FRAKING KIDDING ME???? Discuss!

Personally, I think the facial animations are fluff and highlight how inhuman the NPC faces are. Yes, you can now (almost) lipread them, but it only shows how rigid the rest of the face is. The facial movement used to be just background movement. Now I am drawn to lifeless eyes.

But complaining that they did facial FX before a barber is a bad example. The animators will have little to do with a barber shop or new hair styles compared to others on the team.

Yeah, they need to prioritize a barber shop. Before that they need to make it so that the character creation has lighting and clothing models that will accurately portray the character in "real world" situations. This is so that people don't have to create, delete, repeat.

Chufu · October 2014

I think a barber is a thing that we all - especially the roleplayers - need very fast.

In my opinion: ZOS is allowed to take money for some options (like name-change, alliance-change, race-change), but a barber is still a thing that is missing.

And why? Some of us just want to have another style of hair, because they choose the wrong at the beginning or they just want to have a change.

So please Paul: Give us the barber faster and not on the "long term" plan!

Or implement a knife in the game, so that we can "shave our beard" alone in the world where ever we are.

Tabbycat · October 2014

OP, perhaps something along the lines of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSigBR7wgwo

KenjiJU · October 2014

This is high up on my list of wants. It's easy to forget one thing while making a character, and it becomes a task to replicate how it looks again or having to tweak things once you reach a certain point and notice something's off.

Though I'm not too ticked off.. and somewhat excited about the rest of what was mentioned in the stream.

kewl · October 2014

There are a number of quality of life issues they have been ignoring for too long.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Tabbycat wrote: »

OP, perhaps something along the lines of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSigBR7wgwo

Dear Divines YES! LOL I also play The Sims 3 (Currently building Shadevale Manor, the manor our guild would live in if, you know, we had HOUSING!) and my running joke with my friends is that what I really want is the game that is the secret love child of ESO and The Sims! LOL

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

I care about this about as much as I care about the realism of bug/bird sounds in the game.

Cosmetic changes have been coming with most updates, and that's neat. It's good that the team in charge of that can continue to improve the look of the game. There's no reason that they should give extra priority to a feature for people with regrets about their character's look.

MornaBaine · October 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I care about this about as much as I care about the realism of bug/bird sounds in the game.

Cosmetic changes have been coming with most updates, and that's neat. It's good that the team in charge of that can continue to improve the look of the game. There's no reason that they should give extra priority to a feature for people with regrets about their character's look.

Player satisfaction with the look of their own character is going to have a far higher impact on player RETENTION than whether or not the NPCs can now waggle their eyebrows. Ergo, it makes far more sense from a business perspective to expend resources on that rather than meaningless NPC tweaking.

driosketch · October 2014

It's something I'm hoping they will add, so I'm just glad it's something that will be added eventually. There's a lot to get done, so I can't see getting upset. Every update sees someone upset that something on their wishlist hasn't been addressed quickly enough for their tastes, and who will try to downplay what is added as being unimportant.

MornaBaine · October 2014

driosketch wrote: »

It's something I'm hoping they will add, so I'm just glad it's something that will be added eventually. There's a lot to get done, so I can't see getting upset. Every update sees someone upset that something on their wishlist hasn't been addressed quickly enough for their tastes, and who will try to downplay what is added as being unimportant.

Okay, fair enough. Can you please explain to me why the facial expressions of NPCs was more important and needed to be done NOW...and fairly simple to implement character customization that is in fact on a LOT of players' wishlists is not only LESS important than that but it is, in fact, so UNIMPORTANT that is is getting relegated to some nebulous, far distant time in the future and then only as something they would "like" to do?

driosketch · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

It's something I'm hoping they will add, so I'm just glad it's something that will be added eventually. There's a lot to get done, so I can't see getting upset. Every update sees someone upset that something on their wishlist hasn't been addressed quickly enough for their tastes, and who will try to downplay what is added as being unimportant.

Okay, fair enough. Can you please explain to me why the facial expressions of NPCs was more important and needed to be done NOW...and fairly simple to implement character customization that is in fact on a LOT of players' wishlists is not only LESS important than that but it is, in fact, so UNIMPORTANT that is is getting relegated to some nebulous, far distant time in the future and then only as something they would "like" to do?

For starters, it's a false dichotomy. Why not ask why are werewolf changes more important than adding a barber? ...or why are expanded delves? ...or why are chat bubbles? Second, never assume something is simple to add. Brian Wheeler gave me some good insight into why just pulling the limited forward camp from the game is tied to a number of other things that would need to be changed.

A barber is a lot like a dye station, at least I think the two fall into a similar category of player customization. I recall how many players decried the dye station over much needed fixes to PvP. Why, having been the target, would the customization crowd turn around and do the same towards other content? We have no more business doing that than people living in glass houses have throwing stones. That's my point.

Elsonso · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Okay, fair enough. Can you please explain to me why the facial expressions of NPCs was more important and needed to be done NOW...and fairly simple to implement character customization that is in fact on a LOT of players' wishlists is not only LESS important than that but it is, in fact, so UNIMPORTANT that is is getting relegated to some nebulous, far distant time in the future and then only as something they would "like" to do?

I am sure that the animation team would be happy to come up with an animation of your character getting a haircut.

DenverRalphy · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

It's something I'm hoping they will add, so I'm just glad it's something that will be added eventually. There's a lot to get done, so I can't see getting upset. Every update sees someone upset that something on their wishlist hasn't been addressed quickly enough for their tastes, and who will try to downplay what is added as being unimportant.

Okay, fair enough. Can you please explain to me why the facial expressions of NPCs was more important and needed to be done NOW...and fairly simple to implement character customization that is in fact on a LOT of players' wishlists is not only LESS important than that but it is, in fact, so UNIMPORTANT that is is getting relegated to some nebulous, far distant time in the future and then only as something they would "like" to do?

You assume an awful lot into fact. The facial animation project started way way back during initial development before the game was released. It's only just coming to bear fruit. It's not like they only decided recently to add it to the game. You also seem to assume that the majority of players want the new hairstyles NOW... When realistically while many would like more styles, most really don't care. If it comes... Cool... If it doesn't, whoopdy doo.

Daenerys · October 2014

yeah I was pretty disappointed to hear it won't be for a very long time. but at the same time, happy that some day we'll be able to change our hair. did they mention any more makeup &/or tattoo options?

Voodoo · October 2014

Not a priority. II like to play the game not stare at my character

Elsonso · October 2014

I play in first person, so I actually never get to see my character.

Kreetar · October 2014

oh, aw. that does make me kind of sad. I knew it would not be a big priority for them, but I didn't think it'd be a long-term thing.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

I am a little sad by this, not something I'd rage over but I'd really really like it.

Vyle_Byte · October 2014

I think that we each, individually, have things that we would prioritize first before other things, most of which is a matter of opinion. While they are worthy to US as the players, I think that ZOS has their own ideas of what should be done first. And it doesn't matter if we don't like it or if we do. We can voice our dislikes and things that matter to us but it doesn't mean anything will come because of it.

It is a shame its going to be a while, its one of those things we've been asking for since the beginning but I am glad its at least in the works to actually be something we get. Other things many are asking for, it doesn't sound like there's a future for, such as more character slots.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Daenerys wrote: »

yeah I was pretty disappointed to hear it won't be for a very long time. but at the same time, happy that some day we'll be able to change our hair. did they mention any more makeup &/or tattoo options?

Nope. This was the only question regarding customization options that was addressed.

Tabbycat · October 2014

My guess is they are further along with this Barbershop thing than they tell us. One of these days they will just announce, oh hey, guys, by the way...

Kind of like how they did the whole FaceFX thing that no one really knew they were working on until one day they said, oh hey guys, by the way...

MornaBaine wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

OP, perhaps something along the lines of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSigBR7wgwo

Dear Divines YES! LOL I also play The Sims 3 (Currently building Shadevale Manor, the manor our guild would live in if, you know, we had HOUSING!) and my running joke with my friends is that what I really want is the game that is the secret love child of ESO and The Sims! LOL

ESO's version of EQN Landmark?

MornaBaine · October 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

It's something I'm hoping they will add, so I'm just glad it's something that will be added eventually. There's a lot to get done, so I can't see getting upset. Every update sees someone upset that something on their wishlist hasn't been addressed quickly enough for their tastes, and who will try to downplay what is added as being unimportant.

Okay, fair enough. Can you please explain to me why the facial expressions of NPCs was more important and needed to be done NOW...and fairly simple to implement character customization that is in fact on a LOT of players' wishlists is not only LESS important than that but it is, in fact, so UNIMPORTANT that is is getting relegated to some nebulous, far distant time in the future and then only as something they would "like" to do?

You assume an awful lot into fact. The facial animation project started way way back during initial development before the game was released. It's only just coming to bear fruit. It's not like they only decided recently to add it to the game. You also seem to assume that the majority of players want the new hairstyles NOW... When realistically while many would like more styles, most really don't care. If it comes... Cool... If it doesn't, whoopdy doo.

I'll concede that the improved facial animations for NPCs we are now seeing is just the culmination of a longer term project begun some time ago. However, I will maintain that it was short sighted of the devs to NOT anticipate and begin implementation of greater PLAYER character customization over this. PLAYERS care about THEIR character. Most of us just really don't care if NPCs are more "lifelike."

Tapio75 · October 2014

I find it hard to believe that making at least temporary option for this like "Modify appearance" button on the character selection which would only allow changes to face tab.

I know they want to do something nice as a barber and such but until that, at lleast temporary option like that could do it and give them more time to work on the actual barber and appearance option.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that making at least temporary option for this like "Modify appearance" button on the character selection which would only allow changes to face tab.

I know they want to do something nice as a barber and such but until that, at lleast temporary option like that could do it and give them more time to work on the actual barber and appearance option.

Exactly. Hair art is not all that hard. Just look at the THOUSANDS of options you have for The Sims and those are made by modders. Since you unfortunately can't open up an MMO to mods on that scale it is up to the devs to get to work and give us...let's say... a dozen new hairstyles for men and women. Implement a simple barber as a placeholder until they actually have the time and resources to do whatever elaborate thing Sage is dreaming up in his head. It's a FAIRLY simple fix, satisfies players, and leaves it open for them to do something with more of a "wow factor" later on in the "long term" space Sage has currently relegated character customization to.

Morana · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that making at least temporary option for this like "Modify appearance" button on the character selection which would only allow changes to face tab.

I know they want to do something nice as a barber and such but until that, at lleast temporary option like that could do it and give them more time to work on the actual barber and appearance option.

Exactly. Hair art is not all that hard. Just look at the THOUSANDS of options you have for The Sims and those are made by modders. Since you unfortunately can't open up an MMO to mods on that scale it is up to the devs to get to work and give us...let's say... a dozen new hairstyles for men and women. Implement a simple barber as a placeholder until they actually have the time and resources to do whatever elaborate thing Sage is dreaming up in his head. It's a FAIRLY simple fix, satisfies players, and leaves it open for them to do something with more of a "wow factor" later on in the "long term" space Sage has currently relegated character customization to.

Just as an aside, a lot of the hair for the Sims are models originally made for Poser/DAZ Studio, then converted to Sims use without permission. Check out sites like Renderosity or RuntimeDNA for great examples of what modelers can create for 3D hair.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Morana wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that making at least temporary option for this like "Modify appearance" button on the character selection which would only allow changes to face tab.

I know they want to do something nice as a barber and such but until that, at lleast temporary option like that could do it and give them more time to work on the actual barber and appearance option.

Exactly. Hair art is not all that hard. Just look at the THOUSANDS of options you have for The Sims and those are made by modders. Since you unfortunately can't open up an MMO to mods on that scale it is up to the devs to get to work and give us...let's say... a dozen new hairstyles for men and women. Implement a simple barber as a placeholder until they actually have the time and resources to do whatever elaborate thing Sage is dreaming up in his head. It's a FAIRLY simple fix, satisfies players, and leaves it open for them to do something with more of a "wow factor" later on in the "long term" space Sage has currently relegated character customization to.

Just as an aside, a lot of the hair for the Sims are models originally made for Poser/DAZ Studio, then converted to Sims use without permission. Check out sites like Renderosity or RuntimeDNA for great examples of what modelers can create for 3D hair.

True! And I've seen some pretty freaking amazing hair specifically created for the stand alone ES games by modders as well.

Gyudan · October 2014

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

I think that we each, individually, have things that we would prioritize first before other things, most of which is a matter of opinion. While they are worthy to US as the players, I think that ZOS has their own ideas of what should be done first. And it doesn't matter if we don't like it or if we do. We can voice our dislikes and things that matter to us but it doesn't mean anything will come because of it.

It is a shame its going to be a while, its one of those things we've been asking for since the beginning but I am glad its at least in the works to actually be something we get. Other things many are asking for, it doesn't sound like there's a future for, such as more character slots.

The amount of things they can work on at any given time and the speed at which these things are implemented greatly depends on how much manpower they are ready to assign to game development.
If simple things like a barber that people have been asking for since Beta get absolutely no progress between Quakecon (july 2014, answers from Paul Sage about it) and live#4 (3 months later), I think that we have the right to be concerned.

Quakecon:

Paul: "We like to introduce a RP mechanic where players can earn these and give them to each other. It is coming, just a question of how and when."