I find it comical that these glass cannon gankers who make builds that cannot do anything but gank unsuspecting people (because if they are targetted they die), are threatening to quit the game because they will ONLY be able to do ~2k damage TOTAL out of stealth now, instead of spamming 3 attacks and killing someone before the horse falls. My stam NB wont have any issues killing people post 1.5. Im just sitting back enjoying the show haha!

Tapio75 wrote: »

PVE needs to be considered much more when making these changes. PVP changes o0ften hurt PVE the most and most of playerbase are PVE players.

Sadly as seen here, PVP players are loud lot.

Stop saying this. Read the notes. Quit making wrong assumptions and then getting all upset about it.

If the forums are any indicator, it's the people who won't bother to do any research that are generally the loudest lot.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

For the people posting on the official forum thread.

The thread is not about:

Nightblades.
Whether Stealth Damage was, or wasn’t “OP” before patch.

Crystal Shards/Whatever other skill damage.

What the thread is about:
Assassin/Rogue style character gameplay (as described on the article).
The implications the Stealth Damage change will have on this style of playing.

Compromises & Solutions that would make the popular playstyle work & possibly even feel better after the patch, while getting rid of the sneak damage complaints.

If you want to complain about things that the thread does not focus on, please write your own article/thread about them.


Sincerely,
Decimus

Link- http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/sneak-attack-short-synopsis-proposed-changes/

Honestly OP. If you think your going to control the conversation and resist criticism or the introduction of questions related to your topic you have another thing coming. Your topic has implications far outside of "Rogue" style play and needs be considered alongside the rest of the discussion. You simply can't expect everything else related will be ignored and to do such bias's the subject matter too much IMO. As much as I want to see improvements in Rogue style play too I can't let such a blatant attempt at restricting the conversation go unchallenged..."your" thread or not. Consider "rogue" play how it fits in with the rest or not at all. Anything else is just more blah blah bull crap.

This is ridiculous - 2nd NB nerf in consecutive patches, first the resto staff change now this. Un-acceptable zenimax wth are you thinking?

RENAME AMBUSH TICKLE! This change is pathetic.

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

PVE needs to be considered much more when making these changes. PVP changes o0ften hurt PVE the most and most of playerbase are PVE players.

Sadly as seen here, PVP players are loud lot.

YAWN.

Please come back to the thread when PVEers aren't kicking people from groups for not running the FotM build and trivialising PVE content with overpowered skills.

Thread doesn't even have anything to do w/ PvE...

This is a 100% PvP-related "issue".

I put that in quotes because I don't see the stealth nerf to be that great an issue; it hits everyone equally, and I feel the TTK is already too low for certain stealth-focused builds. Yes, that's just, like, my opinion, man. : P

However, if the aim is to try to flesh out the sneak-sneak-stab playstyle into something a bit more robust / engaging, then I am all for that.

See, I don't feel that you need to be able to kill somebody before they react to be able to call yourself a "rogue archetype". If you can use stealth, evasion, and CC to be slippery enough to dominate opponents, that also qualifies as fairly rogue-y to me.

Currently, one can try to use shadows to their advantage, but outside of Shadow Cloak and its morphs, once the fight starts you're pretty much no longer a rogue.

Here are some of the issues that I see currently w/ the viability of this type of playstyle, at least as it pertains to NBs:

1) No way to drop combat. Mentioned this before, but no class can drop combat reliably to take advantage of stealth bonuses. Once you use your opener, you're no longer rogue-y. You're just a guy w/ swords or a bow until combat ends. Then you can be a rogue again for 1 hit in the next engagement.

2) Related to #1, I believe the Master Assassin passive could stand to be bumped up slightly to maybe 20% damage increase, which would make dropping into Shadow Cloak at least somewhat more meaningful to your next opener.

W/ the ~20% nerf to sneak bonus damage itself, this would basically translate to a slightly weaker hit from true stealth than live, but slightly harder hits from Invisible during combat.

3) The vast majority of players who want to play NB assassins tend to pick the most archetypal weapons: DW, Bow, sometimes a 2hander. They also tend to use medium armor, the most beneficial to the stealth playstyle.

However, this means that most of your "rogue-y" abilities (shadow cloak, concealed weapon, ambush, blur, etc) will see extremely limited use in actual combat. The damaging abilities won't hit very hard w/ a stamina focus, and the utility abilities often won't be able to be used when you actually need them due to a lack of magicka.

4) Probably unnecessary, but I figured I'd toss in the obligatory "Cloak still doesn't work a huge amount of the time", meaning that you often use it and mobs completely ignore that you used it (normal trash mobs, even). Or you can still be charged and still be pulled out of cloak, the same way that projectiles used to still hit you.

There are other NB-specific issues, of course, such as attacks playing animation and taking magicka, but not actually doing anything or getting stuck in silly animations (Impale, I'm looking at you), but they don't really hamper the rogue playstyle specifically.

- sorry for the small novel. Been meaning to add my thoughts to this thread for a while.

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Attacking someone from stealth should grant you an advantage in an ensuing fight, not win the whole fight.

Very well said. : )

Spangla wrote: »

Not well said - If you are purely geared and specc'd to kill from stealth and you cant there is a problem.

At no point should a player be able to kill another geared player in under 2 seconds w/out them even having a chance to react.

That is a balance issue.

There's pretty much nothing anyone can say that will make this seem "fair". Those who keep saying it is just seem extremely self-serving to me.

"It can be argued whether this stealth even gives you a real advantage." - LOL seriously? Is this a joke? You don't need to attend West Point for 4 years to appreciate the power or remaining unseen to the enemy. It is fraught with obvious balance issues that Gary Gygax clearly laid out in the godfather of RPGs, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.

You also complain about shorter cast times, think the standard for crystal shard damage is 1.8k (!) (somehow the 359 in the same pic the poster linked doesn't count), and think crowd control is unreliable.

How is anyone supposed to take the OP seriously?