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Mist Form, BATS, Mist Form, GG.
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Gigglesnort✭✭✭It's kind of like this forum - QQ, nerf, QQ, nerf. GG.
These are skills with intended mechanics and intended damage output that people have chained together to be effective in PvP. The same could be said for a number of other skill combinations, either from individual players or well coordinated small scale groups. The trick is not to complain about it's power (anyone can do this if they get vamp, it's not as if it is 'unfair') but realise what can be done to counter it and trust me, there are ways to counter it. An entire skill line dedicated to fighting undead? Check. Numerous hard and soft CC options to stop Batswarmer in his tracks? Check. Dodge and block mechanics? Check.
I would encourage everyone to think before posting. There are too many cries of 'OP' when this apparent 'insight' on the current state of the game should be turned inwards and focussed on one's own abilities. Perhaps then people would start to develop strategies to counter certain combinations of skills that everyone assumes are OP.
Agree, to many people focus on offensive tactics and not enough of defensive ones, so when they die, its the other players fault for being "OP"OIIIIIIIO
Death is only the beginning4 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭no no no, you guys have it all wrong. My negate says vamp ulti sucks :P Oh you dont have negate? Team up with a sorc who does. I SAVE LIVES (noob lives and pros alike) when i see bat swarm go up, negate goes down! Every one jumps the vamp, gg. It is not that hard. There is a reason it is GROUP play lol Negate will do wonders for you ^_^ Screw vamps, so easy to get away from and shut down. I dont get why people are crying......do you stand in red circles too?2 -
Probitas✭✭✭Sounds to me like PVP was never properly tested with people playing all classes, just a few, and those few that didn't see much of anything are the ones having all the difficulty.
Also, WoW is like this, button spamming for the win. I thought this game was supposed to be different.0 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You might as well say it's OP to have attribute points, because you're too stupid to figure out how to apply them
5 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭Blackthorn51 wrote: »I hate to say it but this one is a L2P thing. I deploy counter tactics against Bat Swarms that work great. I pvp for hours on end every day and I can not recall even a single time that bat swarm has killed me unless I totally screwed up by not watching my Stamina or by not paying attention.
Yup, I use bat swarm, some people it crushes them, others cc me, or run and wait till the bats run out and come back and take me down.
It's so silly. Btw, I don't even use mist form. Probably should I guess...Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackthorn51 wrote: »I hate to say it but this one is a L2P thing. I deploy counter tactics against Bat Swarms that work great. I pvp for hours on end every day and I can not recall even a single time that bat swarm has killed me unless I totally screwed up by not watching my Stamina or by not paying attention.
[...]
[...]
[...]
Since when are explanations done by noobs worth anythin? I`m not a vampire and the reason I dropped it was because I consider it weaker than not being a vampire. Nothing to protect for me. Whats your explanation now?
Maybe, just maybe, the players here who know what buttons to press to completely negate a vampires chance of killing them are right?
Again, complaining about vampires is the same as outing yourself to be terrible as a player. Why not just improve your play and laugh about yourself for ever jumping on the complain train?
It`s never too late!
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on September 26, 2014 12:51PMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy4 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All i have to say is that there are counters and a wide line between those who understand and use them, and those who don't.Edited by Shunravi on September 26, 2014 11:23PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
SahrotRein✭✭✭✭As much as I didn't read any of the posts I have to say that this "combo" is nothing uncommon and that I've also used this a couple times in PvP.
One good example is Clouding Swarm (bats morph that makes you invisible) because in that state you can feed on the enemy, if you're losing the fight and haven't drained him before. This has saved my life more than once.Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.- A Dominion of peace. The fair and just rule of Tamriel0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are solutions to this problem in Elder Scrolls: The Vampire Wars of Cryodiil; first while in mist form they can't heal. While you can't target them in mist form you can follow them in mist form, you can damage them in mistform with AOE and you can snare them with Talons or Encase and other AOE roots. Sounds like you are a sorc, so encase would be your root of choice, note the bonus 15% crit you get from that as a sorc so not the worst way to use 1/5 slots, likely not the best. They can break these roots at the cost of their sta so keep recasting it so they cannot get away. When they come out of mist form knock them down and blow them up. If you don't knock them down repeat the steps above.
Fearing vampires is also a great way of dealing with them, more so when they are in bat-swarm mode. Turn undead, the fighter's guild ability or the NB fear both work well in this regard. Having them run the wrong way while bat-swarming is great, further, rooting them while feared and blowing them up is EVEN BETTER. In Elder Scrolls: The Vampire Wars of Cryodiil, vampires can be a tough opponent, but one should expect that since they are the game's namesake.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
Chubbaz✭✭✭You gotta love when Pro-Vamps always play the "L2P WE DON'T NEED A NERF" card.
This is not a L2P issue, tell me how is having an INVISIBLE ult, that moves with you and you can spam other skill during it fair? Atleast with my DK I have to either morph my standard into being mobile or the extra damage reduction.
Please actually read my post before posting, I know it might hurt your brain but atleast try.3 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭You gotta love when Pro-Vamps always play the "L2P WE DON'T NEED A NERF" card.
This is not a L2P issue, tell me how is having an INVISIBLE ult, that moves with you and you can spam other skill during it fair? Atleast with my DK I have to either morph my standard into being mobile or the extra damage reduction.
Please actually read my post before posting, I know it might hurt your brain but atleast try.
It is an l2p issue all the way, and here is why:
1. invisible - yes and no (even more "no"). The player is invisible, not the effect. AoE attacks still hit him/her. You can still cc the vampire or block the damage.
2. It is centered around the player, so harder to escape than stationary ulti, okay. That's a point. But there are hundreds of players that fight in standards, or keep casting at reflective scales when the first attacks all got reflected to them (even in a 1v1 situation). If you suck, there is no reason why you should be able to win against a player that has a decent clue about what he/she is doing. Also, bat swarm only lasts a few seconds.
3. In your original post, you stated "went into mist form WHILE his LOLBATSWARM ultimate was active and proceeded to take out 15+ people in a matter of seconds". If you're right, this player was not able to use any other ability during bat swarm. Let's assume a medium 2,5k health for 15 players, which means a total of almost 40k hitpoints. 6 seconds of bat swarm, every tick hits 6 targets = 36 hits. Every hit seems to deal more than 1k damage in this scenario. Which is not the case. It's more likely you forgot to tell about the other players also attacking? Or that the 15+ guys were all very low on hp (like 300-500 max each) and the vampire got lucky with his timing. Or... a number of other reasons. And not a single of those players was able to cc him?
So. Any more points? By the way if you wanna know how powerful a vampire is, turn into one and fight me. I guarantee you that you won't win a single time.
Edit: Better read and try out what Koma Grey is telling you ( @Mojomonkeyman ) because he's one of the better players out there.Edited by r.jan_emailb16_ESO on September 26, 2014 9:20AMLairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.2 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »You gotta love when Pro-Vamps always play the "L2P WE DON'T NEED A NERF" card.
This is not a L2P issue, tell me how is having an INVISIBLE ult, that moves with you and you can spam other skill during it fair? Atleast with my DK I have to either morph my standard into being mobile or the extra damage reduction.
Please actually read my post before posting, I know it might hurt your brain but atleast try.
It is an l2p issue all the way, and here is why:
1. invisible - yes and no (even more "no"). The player is invisible, not the effect. AoE attacks still hit him/her. You can still cc the vampire or block the damage.
2. It is centered around the player, so harder to escape than stationary ulti, okay. That's a point. But there are hundreds of players that fight in standards, or keep casting at reflective scales when the first attacks all got reflected to them (even in a 1v1 situation). If you suck, there is no reason why you should be able to win against a player that has a decent clue about what he/she is doing. Also, bat swarm only lasts a few seconds.
3. In your original post, you stated "went into mist form WHILE his LOLBATSWARM ultimate was active and proceeded to take out 15+ people in a matter of seconds". If you're right, this player was not able to use any other ability during bat swarm. Let's assume a medium 2,5k health for 15 players, which means a total of almost 40k hitpoints. 6 seconds of bat swarm, every tick hits 6 targets = 36 hits. Every hit seems to deal more than 1k damage in this scenario. Which is not the case. It's more likely you forgot to tell about the other players also attacking? Or that the 15+ guys were all very low on hp (like 300-500 max each) and the vampire got lucky with his timing. Or... a number of other reasons. And not a single of those players was able to cc him?
So. Any more points? By the way if you wanna know how powerful a vampire is, turn into one and fight me. I guarantee you that you won't win a single time.
Edit: Better read and try out what Koma Grey is telling you ( @Mojomonkeyman ) because he's one of the better players out there.
Hey mate, GW2 Good Old Days? If yes, what`s my alltime favorite flaming partner Dawson doing?
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Back in the GW2 days I used to be in Skillfree but Hot, only joined GD in TESO... sadly the guild is dead now. I met Dawson, but he left this game like most of the others did. Was fun with him
. Any other Buka guys here? Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »Back in the GW2 days I used to be in Skillfree but Hot, only joined GD in TESO... sadly the guild is dead now. I met Dawson, but he left this game like most of the others did. Was fun with him. Any other Buka guys here?
Well, Pfefferkuchenpferd & Nirax started with me, but they`re playing LoL and TERA now. Terekhov & Delaa tried it but went back to GW2, Vashury is also playing GW2 again.
Thanks for sharing, mate!Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's kind of like this forum - QQ, nerf, QQ, nerf. GG.
These are skills with intended mechanics and intended damage output that people have chained together to be effective in PvP. The same could be said for a number of other skill combinations, either from individual players or well coordinated small scale groups. The trick is not to complain about it's power (anyone can do this if they get vamp, it's not as if it is 'unfair') but realise what can be done to counter it and trust me, there are ways to counter it. An entire skill line dedicated to fighting undead? Check. Numerous hard and soft CC options to stop Batswarmer in his tracks? Check. Dodge and block mechanics? Check.
I would encourage everyone to think before posting. There are too many cries of 'OP' when this apparent 'insight' on the current state of the game should be turned inwards and focussed on one's own abilities. Perhaps then people would start to develop strategies to counter certain combinations of skills that everyone assumes are OP.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with the above. What people can't seem to wrap their heads around is the fact that, with this game in particular, there are always going to be some builds/combos that own you and, conversely, there will always be some builds/combos that YOU own. I have been (and seen other vamps) turned to ash so many times in PvP by people who seem to simply be able to put out an INSANE amount of fire damage that I end up wondering how THAT isn't considered OP! And then I realize...it's OP to ME... but not everyone else. Players keep seeking the special magic build that makes them immune to EVERYTHING... and then when they figure out what things they will never be immune to, they start crying for the nerf bat. And I'd be a lot happier if Zenimax would just quit with their disturbing penchant for listening to that nonsense.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭First off, I'm AD and never played a Vamp in cyro.
Batswarm is only effective against unexperienced players who don't know how to handle the situation, which explains why this guy could take out 15 player singlehandedly.
The only moment when an experienced player might be killed by Batswarm is when he's outnumberd, in a tight place and/or out of stamina.3 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭Just adding my 2 cents; I totally disagree with the fact that you can cast abilities while using batswarm. That's the only thing OP about this ultimate. IMO they should make batswarm stronger but channeling all that time. But that's my view on it.
Anyway, I was vamp on an alt and I cured it because the drawbacks are too strong versus the benefits.
In honesty, being vamp or WW should be a RP thing and shouldn't make you OP because players will then become either to benefit from the curses. The problem is that you end up with 90% of players being either vamp or WW. That I don't want to see. If anything, being either should have more drawbacks than perks so it become a niche play style. Only the ones who really want to be vamp or WW would become it for RP reason. I know I would. I stayed WW on my main because that's who I want to be, no matter how bad the skill tree is.2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »You are clueless. Storm Atronarch is one of the best ultimates by far. I`m no vampire and Storm Atronarch does everything Batswarm did for me, with a nasty ae stun, also very nasty single target stun, 500+ ae damage initially plus pulse for equal damage and a npc with the health of a fortress.
Ah yeah, try dropping one of those on a batswarmer, you`ll have a good laugh.
Are people ever thinking outside of the box?
Have yet to see a single guy standing next to a summoned atronach. Maybe it's because they are so big and flashy everyone actually see them (unlike batswarm). Ah did I miss the trick to keep repopping atronach forever like it's possible with batswarm? Or did I miss the trick about how to enter mist form after summoning atronach?
Are people ever thinking outside of the ass?Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's kind of like this forum - QQ, nerf, QQ, nerf. GG.
These are skills with intended mechanics and intended damage output that people have chained together to be effective in PvP. The same could be said for a number of other skill combinations, either from individual players or well coordinated small scale groups. The trick is not to complain about it's power (anyone can do this if they get vamp, it's not as if it is 'unfair') but realise what can be done to counter it and trust me, there are ways to counter it. An entire skill line dedicated to fighting undead? Check. Numerous hard and soft CC options to stop Batswarmer in his tracks? Check. Dodge and block mechanics? Check.
I would encourage everyone to think before posting. There are too many cries of 'OP' when this apparent 'insight' on the current state of the game should be turned inwards and focussed on one's own abilities. Perhaps then people would start to develop strategies to counter certain combinations of skills that everyone assumes are OP.
I feel like crying and clapping at the same time2 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerf the range of batswarm from 10 to 8 meters, it will be on par with dk standard then...0 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭I have 4 max characters who all PVP (each class) and I have NEVER had an issue with Mist form or bat swarm from another player. Move away from bat swarm, let them spam mist form and drain their magicka, then attack. AMAZING, look how simple that is.
If that many people died to the player the OP mentioned, THEY ALL NEED TO L2P. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard of.
The other poster had it right: QQ nerf QQ nerf .... it's pathetic given that this game is supposed to be for a Mature audience, it's anything but when it comes to people crying over things they should L2P about! (Not to mention most likely exaggerating and if we had all seen a video of it we'd laugh at how much those 15+ people need to L2P).
#L2PEdited by ThisOnePosts on October 24, 2014 7:10PM4 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »You are clueless. Storm Atronarch is one of the best ultimates by far. I`m no vampire and Storm Atronarch does everything Batswarm did for me, with a nasty ae stun, also very nasty single target stun, 500+ ae damage initially plus pulse for equal damage and a npc with the health of a fortress.
Ah yeah, try dropping one of those on a batswarmer, you`ll have a good laugh.
Are people ever thinking outside of the box?
Have yet to see a single guy standing next to a summoned atronach. Maybe it's because they are so big and flashy everyone actually see them (unlike batswarm). Ah did I miss the trick to keep repopping atronach forever like it's possible with batswarm? Or did I miss the trick about how to enter mist form after summoning atronach?
Are people ever thinking outside of the ass?
If people EVER thought outside the box in this game, then maybe we wouldn't have all these "i suck QQ " threads. So i guess it is a CLEAR indication that no, no they do not
Edited by Gorthax on October 24, 2014 7:09PM3 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭Don't have access to negate? l2p.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO42 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Blackthorn51 wrote: »I hate to say it but this one is a L2P thing. I deploy counter tactics against Bat Swarms that work great. I pvp for hours on end every day and I can not recall even a single time that bat swarm has killed me unless I totally screwed up by not watching my Stamina or by not paying attention.
[...]
[...]
[...]
Since when are explanations done by noobs worth anythin? I`m not a vampire and the reason I dropped it was because I consider it weaker than not being a vampire. Nothing to protect for me. Whats your explanation now?
Maybe, just maybe, the players here who know what buttons to press to completely negate a vampires chance of killing them are right?
Again, complaining about vampires is the same as outing yourself to be terrible as a player. Why not just improve your play and laugh about yourself for ever jumping on the complain train?
It`s never too late!
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
Agreed. I dropped Vamp as well on my VR12 (at the time, now it's VR14 ofc) to test how things were without it and sure I was dangerous before, but now I'm a monster without actually being a Vamp or WW
Vamp's perks are removing sneak penalty.... ummm.... okay I stop there. I don't see drain as good slot usage nor mist form unless you're apparently using bat swarm fighting against of noobs who need to L2P.
If I ever keep Vamp on a character, it won't be one that plays much PVP. Non-Vamp = the most powerful of the three atm (between Non-Vamp/WW, Vamp, and WW). It all comes down to learning build combinations and counters to all different abilities then picking what is most important to you and keeping that on one or two of your skill bars.2 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭It's real simple, make Pulsar a sorc class ability rather than a destro staff ability...problem solved.
Because Devouring Swarm by itself isn't the problem, it's mostly vampire DKs using the Talons + DS + Pulsar combo that destroys groups.1 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Keep bats as is, but increase the ult cost to around 250>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0