Stamina

Insurrektion · October 2014

I've heard mention of stamina-based abilities getting a boost. Could someone recap what was said?

Cody · October 2014

2H skilline is getting a heavy buff, and im sure the champion system will help.

hopefully it wont be by the time most of the playerbase leaves:/

Insurrektion · October 2014

So we're going to get to hit more home runs?

Huntler · October 2014

Insurrektion wrote: »

I've heard mention of stamina-based abilities getting a boost. Could someone recap what was said?

Why not instead of being lazy, just read the patch notes and fully understand the changes? Like... what it takes 5 minutes to read them?

Insurrektion · October 2014

yea which patch notes are we talking about? <snip>
edit: your impolite criticism of those asking for help is unwanted. please refrain from repeating this behavior in the future. thank you.

Cysapper · October 2014

Insurrektion wrote: »

yea which patch notes are we talking about? <snip>
edit: your impolite criticism of those asking for help is unwanted. please refrain from repeating this behavior in the future. thank you.

PTS forum 1.5.1 patch notes

Insurrektion · October 2014

1.5.1 yea havent seen those yet. ill have to search for them thank you

JackDaniell · October 2014

Stamina OP

Insurrektion · October 2014

btw i saw nothing that directly referenced stamina buffs. just some talk of ww's and some bug fixes.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136571/pts-patch-notes-v1-5-1/p1

Desdemonte · October 2014

There are no Stamina buffs this update.

Cody · October 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

Stamina OP

as soon as the 2H changes come out, we will be seeing QQs from people with the adamantium magic sticks complaining of how they are getting "uppercut spammed" and crap like that.

it will be entertaining to witness

JackDaniell · October 2014

Cody wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Stamina OP

as soon as the 2H changes come out, we will be seeing QQs from people with the adamantium magic sticks complaining o how they are getting "uppercut spammed" and crap like that.

it will be entertaining to witness

In all seriousness this has been more than achievable for quite some time. My crit rush hits a clothie for 1k+ and a 450 light attack. Cloth = die by the sword!

Muizer · October 2014

Well, people with points in the stamina weapon abilities will get skill points refunded. Is that like ZoS saying: "sorry guys, we won't fix stamina, but we see the problem and will give you a discount on your respec to magica"? Couldn't care less about skill points myself. I think I've got like 20 unused ones on my main character.

kijima · October 2014

677 for light attacks on PvP'ers (not NPC's) last night on chill, new personal record for me.

Glass canon though.

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

kijima wrote: »

677 for light attacks on PvP'ers (not NPC's) last night on chill, new personal record for me.

Glass canon though.

Impressive stuff, mind sharing some basic info?

Was mark used? What's your max stamina/weapon power? That sort of thing

(Simply curious)

Jitterbug · October 2014

is it only 2H getting buffed? I thought it was stamina as a whole (meaning dw also)

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Jitterbug wrote: »

is it only 2H getting buffed? I thought it was stamina as a whole (meaning dw also)

No, all stamina trees in 1.5 are getting at least some buffs, DW's may be more of a change than a buff, I haven't heard of any conclusions being made on that front.

Synopsis of changes and partially my opinion of them:

However Bow is actually getting a bigger buff than 2h. Snipes reduced cast time down to 1.1 seconds, even with 5% reduced damage is a massive sustained dps increase.

Furthermore, Poison Arrows DoT got fixed, so it can crit now, they also increased its damage again (if i remember correctly) AND buffed the Poison Injection morph to trigger its extra damage at 50% instead of 35%.

2h got uppercuts cast time reduced to .8 seconds, 2% increased damage to it as well.

Momentum got changed to no longer give increasing % of weapon power, but added an extra 10% to the initial so now its just 30 seconds of 20% weapon power. They also added a strong HoT to Momentum, and changed the way Rally works to support it even more.

They added a 10% increase in damage to Cleave's initial damage. The Forceful passive now affects two extra enemies instead of one. The bonus from wearing a 2h mace got changed to simply ignore 20% armor.

Got rid of Arcane Fighter passive in favor of one that increases damage of your next attack by 10% after landing a heavy attack. Many are angry about this, I will indeed miss my increased disease damage healing debuff chance.

For DW, it wasn't much. Increases the initial hit on Twin Slashes by 10-20% (10 if you have it morphed to Blood Craze, 20 if you have it morphed to Rending Slashes)

And finally they changed the Rapid Strikes morph from attack speed to increasing damage per hit by 2% on the ability.

That's all there was really for damage-output oriented changes.

So 2h got the most stuff done to it, but Bow is really what got the highest dps increase, and DW got a minor buff or two as well.

Jitterbug · October 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

is it only 2H getting buffed? I thought it was stamina as a whole (meaning dw also)

No, all stamina trees in 1.5 are getting at least some buffs, DW's may be more of a change than a buff, I haven't heard of any conclusions being made on that front.

Synopsis of changes and partially my opinion of them:
However Bow is actually getting a bigger buff than 2h. Snipes reduced cast time down to 1.1 seconds, even with 5% reduced damage is a massive sustained dps increase.

Furthermore, Poison Arrows DoT got fixed, so it can crit now, they also increased its damage again (if i remember correctly) AND buffed the Poison Injection morph to trigger its extra damage at 50% instead of 35%.

2h got uppercuts cast time reduced to .8 seconds, 2% increased damage to it as well.

Momentum got changed to no longer give increasing % of weapon power, but added an extra 10% to the initial so now its just 30 seconds of 20% weapon power. They also added a strong HoT to Momentum, and changed the way Rally works to support it even more.

They added a 10% increase in damage to Cleave's initial damage. The Forceful passive now affects two extra enemies instead of one. The bonus from wearing a 2h mace got changed to simply ignore 20% armor.

Got rid of Arcane Fighter passive in favor of one that increases damage of your next attack by 10% after landing a heavy attack. Many are angry about this, I will indeed miss my increased disease damage healing debuff chance.

For DW, it wasn't much. Increases the initial hit on Twin Slashes by 10-20% (10 if you have it morphed to Blood Craze, 20 if you have it morphed to Rending Slashes)

And finally they changed the Rapid Strikes morph from attack speed to increasing damage per hit by 2% on the ability.

That's all there was really for damage-output oriented changes.

So 2h got the most stuff done to it, but Bow is really what got the highest dps increase, and DW got a minor buff or two as well.

Thanks for that!

kijima · October 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

677 for light attacks on PvP'ers (not NPC's) last night on chill, new personal record for me.

Glass canon though.

Impressive stuff, mind sharing some basic info?

Was mark used? What's your max stamina/weapon power? That sort of thing

(Simply curious)

It's weapon damage and stamina heavy, but that's not the entire build. I'd rather not tell you everything, if that's okay. There is already an epidemic of AD legolases running around at the moment and I don't want to contribute to that.

My guildies know what I'm doing but that's about it. Honestly, it's a little OP in some ways. I mean I'm squishy up close, but it's a cheesy ranged build that does some pretty stupid ranged damage, hence the OP'ness.

I sometimes feel sorry for my victims, they can't hit me yet I can tear them down very quickly. Up close though, I'm soft as butter.

Cody · October 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Stamina OP

as soon as the 2H changes come out, we will be seeing QQs from people with the adamantium magic sticks complaining o how they are getting "uppercut spammed" and crap like that.

it will be entertaining to witness

In all seriousness this has been more than achievable for quite some time. My crit rush hits a clothie for 1k+ and a 450 light attack. Cloth = die by the sword!

when i try it,I get blocked by the adamantium magic sticks 99% of the time:(

Cody · October 2014

Muizer wrote: »

Well, people with points in the stamina weapon abilities will get skill points refunded. Is that like ZoS saying: "sorry guys, we won't fix stamina, but we see the problem and will give you a discount on your respec to magica"? Couldn't care less about skill points myself. I think I've got like 20 unused ones on my main character.

i have close to 60.

Insurrektion · October 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

is it only 2H getting buffed? I thought it was stamina as a whole (meaning dw also)

No, all stamina trees in 1.5 are getting at least some buffs, DW's may be more of a change than a buff, I haven't heard of any conclusions being made on that front.

Synopsis of changes and partially my opinion of them:
However Bow is actually getting a bigger buff than 2h. Snipes reduced cast time down to 1.1 seconds, even with 5% reduced damage is a massive sustained dps increase.

Furthermore, Poison Arrows DoT got fixed, so it can crit now, they also increased its damage again (if i remember correctly) AND buffed the Poison Injection morph to trigger its extra damage at 50% instead of 35%.

2h got uppercuts cast time reduced to .8 seconds, 2% increased damage to it as well.

Momentum got changed to no longer give increasing % of weapon power, but added an extra 10% to the initial so now its just 30 seconds of 20% weapon power. They also added a strong HoT to Momentum, and changed the way Rally works to support it even more.

They added a 10% increase in damage to Cleave's initial damage. The Forceful passive now affects two extra enemies instead of one. The bonus from wearing a 2h mace got changed to simply ignore 20% armor.

Got rid of Arcane Fighter passive in favor of one that increases damage of your next attack by 10% after landing a heavy attack. Many are angry about this, I will indeed miss my increased disease damage healing debuff chance.

For DW, it wasn't much. Increases the initial hit on Twin Slashes by 10-20% (10 if you have it morphed to Blood Craze, 20 if you have it morphed to Rending Slashes)

And finally they changed the Rapid Strikes morph from attack speed to increasing damage per hit by 2% on the ability.

That's all there was really for damage-output oriented changes.

So 2h got the most stuff done to it, but Bow is really what got the highest dps increase, and DW got a minor buff or two as well.

Yea pretty much. 1.8 second cast time down to 1.1 second cast time with a 5% damage nerf on crits results in a 63% dps increase for normal snipes. 1.8/1.1=1.63, so basically 163% of normal dps or in other words a 63% dps increase. The 5% less damage from crit just means you have a less dramatic initial impact but then can pound out a 2nd snipe in no time, and possibly a 3rd before the enemy realizes whats going on in most cases and gets within range of your lethal arrows.

The changes to 2H didn't impress me at all. There are a lot of skills coming for WWs, but I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be as good in pvp as people think because we already use meatbags.

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Insurrektion wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

is it only 2H getting buffed? I thought it was stamina as a whole (meaning dw also)

No, all stamina trees in 1.5 are getting at least some buffs, DW's may be more of a change than a buff, I haven't heard of any conclusions being made on that front.

Synopsis of changes and partially my opinion of them:
However Bow is actually getting a bigger buff than 2h. Snipes reduced cast time down to 1.1 seconds, even with 5% reduced damage is a massive sustained dps increase.

Furthermore, Poison Arrows DoT got fixed, so it can crit now, they also increased its damage again (if i remember correctly) AND buffed the Poison Injection morph to trigger its extra damage at 50% instead of 35%.

2h got uppercuts cast time reduced to .8 seconds, 2% increased damage to it as well.

Momentum got changed to no longer give increasing % of weapon power, but added an extra 10% to the initial so now its just 30 seconds of 20% weapon power. They also added a strong HoT to Momentum, and changed the way Rally works to support it even more.

They added a 10% increase in damage to Cleave's initial damage. The Forceful passive now affects two extra enemies instead of one. The bonus from wearing a 2h mace got changed to simply ignore 20% armor.

Got rid of Arcane Fighter passive in favor of one that increases damage of your next attack by 10% after landing a heavy attack. Many are angry about this, I will indeed miss my increased disease damage healing debuff chance.

For DW, it wasn't much. Increases the initial hit on Twin Slashes by 10-20% (10 if you have it morphed to Blood Craze, 20 if you have it morphed to Rending Slashes)

And finally they changed the Rapid Strikes morph from attack speed to increasing damage per hit by 2% on the ability.

That's all there was really for damage-output oriented changes.

So 2h got the most stuff done to it, but Bow is really what got the highest dps increase, and DW got a minor buff or two as well.

Yea pretty much. 1.8 second cast time down to 1.1 second cast time with a 5% damage nerf on crits results in a 63% dps increase for normal snipes. 1.8/1.1=1.63, so basically 163% of normal dps or in other words a 63% dps increase. The 5% less damage from crit just means you have a less dramatic initial impact but then can pound out a 2nd snipe in no time, and possibly a 3rd before the enemy realizes whats going on in most cases and gets within range of your lethal arrows.

The changes to 2H didn't impress me at all. There are a lot of skills coming for WWs, but I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be as good in pvp as people think because we already use meatbags.

Not 5% less damage from crit, just 5% less base damage in general. There was a separate nerf to stealth crit damage against players across the board by about 20%.

So yes, the sustained dps of using snipe skyrocketed, but using as an opener in pvp has been toned down a lot.

As for 2h, I'm really just happy about the momentum/rally change. It's such a substantial heal now, I was lacking anything of the sort that scaled off of weapon power/stamina in my bow/2h build.

As well as the fact that 2h's wrecking blow-heavy attack rotation for pve got a decent damage up, I went from around 800-900 dps on live to around 1200-1300 on the pts.

Overall, I'm pretty happy. Do I think stamina builds will meet up with magicka builds yet? Probably not. We'll see, I think we still have a bit to go. The champion system and spellcrafting (believe it or not) also leaves room to really help the state of stamina dps methinks.

Bashev · October 2014

If you ask me, the biggest pvp stamina buff is in 1h/s tree with "Reverberating Bash (Power Bash morph): This ability now reduces healing taken by 40% for 8 seconds; this effect applies even if your target is stun immune."

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Bashev wrote: »

If you ask me, the biggest pvp stamina buff is in 1h/s tree with "Reverberating Bash (Power Bash morph): This ability now reduces healing taken by 40% for 8 seconds; this effect applies even if your target is stun immune."

Biggest pvp buff? I might even agree with you. 1h/s didn't really need to get any stronger in pvp imo

However the change to momentum/rally is pretty substantial for pvp.

Draxys · October 2014

elder bows online coming this november

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Draxys wrote: »

elder bows online coming this november

/facepalm

Ashanne · October 2014

Draxys wrote: »

elder bows online coming this november

then so be it...cuz lets be honest here, it's been
- elder 1h&s online since early access..still is..
- elder restro/destro online since june?...still is

And hopefully we will have elder 2h online and elder dw online

I believe that ZOS is finally letting us play as we want..we can see a larger diversity in weapons/skills..(they still have to fix light armor and stamina usage for stam builds and break cc-> as this is completely unfair)

Yonkit · October 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

If you ask me, the biggest pvp stamina buff is in 1h/s tree with "Reverberating Bash (Power Bash morph): This ability now reduces healing taken by 40% for 8 seconds; this effect applies even if your target is stun immune."

Biggest pvp buff? I might even agree with you. 1h/s didn't really need to get any stronger in pvp imo

However the change to momentum/rally is pretty substantial for pvp.

It definitely needed to be stronger in terms of the skill line. Sure I have used SnB for my dress wearing caster NB, but do I want to use it as a melee skill line with lots of cc and dmg? Not really... It's a place holder for me to have two pieces of Torug's pact to improve my casting and defense. I want the skills to be more diverse so we can really develop medium and heavy builds in pvp. No they're not equal, yes I use all three and mixtures of them too. No they are not close to equal.

For example, I used to go 5 footman and 5 light for increased power while be very sturdy. Then I kept testing things out and the benefits to sap essence through pure power of all light outweighed the sturdiness of one of the sturdiest sets in the game. This was kinda a bummer, so if I wanted to maximize my play and stay alive longer, have stronger veils, and better attacks, I went from half light/half sturdy to all light and keep the SnB without using any of the skills for it. Just the mechanics of the game.

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Yonkit wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

If you ask me, the biggest pvp stamina buff is in 1h/s tree with "Reverberating Bash (Power Bash morph): This ability now reduces healing taken by 40% for 8 seconds; this effect applies even if your target is stun immune."

Biggest pvp buff? I might even agree with you. 1h/s didn't really need to get any stronger in pvp imo

However the change to momentum/rally is pretty substantial for pvp.

It definitely needed to be stronger in terms of the skill line. Sure I have used SnB for my dress wearing caster NB, but do I want to use it as a melee skill line with lots of cc and dmg? Not really... It's a place holder for me to have two pieces of Torug's pact to improve my casting and defense. I want the skills to be more diverse so we can really develop medium and heavy builds in pvp. No they're not equal, yes I use all three and mixtures of them too. No they are not close to equal.

For example, I used to go 5 footman and 5 light for increased power while be very sturdy. Then I kept testing things out and the benefits to sap essence through pure power of all light outweighed the sturdiness of one of the sturdiest sets in the game. This was kinda a bummer, so if I wanted to maximize my play and stay alive longer, have stronger veils, and better attacks, I went from half light/half sturdy to all light and keep the SnB without using any of the skills for it. Just the mechanics of the game.

Fair enough, I suppose I'm just a bit disappointed with how those mechanics turned out, and that the scenario you describe is so common. And when I said 1h/s is strong, the basic scenario you describe (using 1h/s only as a placeholder and utilizing passives) is basically what I'm referring to.

What I would find ideal is if the strengths of 1h/s started to be more focused on and almost limited to the skill line itself, like we see with most weapon trees, and focused a bit less on how much it offers to those for simply wearing it and skipping most if not all of the actives.

OR ZoS could just make the benefits of each weapontype a bit more universal to match some of the weapons that have that advantage already, such as 1h/shield. ^.^

Of course this may not be perfect balance, I'm not an expert as much as I'd like to be, this is just what seems to makes sense to me. I'd be fine with either option, although it seems like they're moving towards the former (limiting weapon trees as opposed to universalizing) looking at the cycle of life change.