Reflective Scales - Bow users are useless.

morvegil · October 2014

So with Damage shields and now reflective scales...I have pretty much zero chance of killing a DK as a Stamina build NB. They can pop standard of might and flash lash my ass away while my shots DO NOTHING. No damage, or get reflected back to me.

So is the only viable NB build the cloth wearing caster?

Xeniph · October 2014

I don't understand.
In your sig, it says you run 2h+bow. Reflective scales doesn't effect any of the 2h line abilities.

Also you mention NB, so that would mean you have quite a few other tools to augment that line, even as a stamina build. Stack those dodge + miss buffs and go to town. Throw in a expertly timed Mass Confusion and you have a well balanced fight going.

Though I will admit going toe to toe with a DK, as a Vamp (Also in your sig) is ill advised. Not impossible, it is just harder.

Food for thought.

kijima · October 2014

Lo'ke you are correct, a ranged bow user is useless against a DK using reflective scales, you'll need to change your bar around. There are a few things that are ranged that don't bounce back, sadly none of them revolve around the bow. The best ranged attack on a DK using reflective scales is soul assault.

Best off to fear them, use shades and wear them down, soul tether and then soul assault to the face, then impale.

NB's in leather, using a stereotypical bow build will more often than not get munched by a DK. Hybrid NB builds however, you can go toe to toe with them as an NB. NB's are bloody good 1v1 if that's your style of play you enjoy the most, and yes dress wearers do better in that scenario.

Not saying it can't be done in leather and more of a traditional, ganky NB build. I can do it, but only if the timing it right, I'm prepared and concentrating.

If you are feeling a little bad, like you are doing something wrong. Don't be, DK's are hard up front and personal with their flame lashing, talons and so on. Makes it worse when you are a vamp like me

On the upside, killing skirt wearing templars and sorcs super quickly with bow is something we NB's with bows do well.

TheBull · October 2014

Kinda crazy how one button eliminates entire weapons.

Aeratus · October 2014

1. Fire your snipe shot
2. DK reflects it
3. Switch to 1h-shield and cast defensive posture to reflect the reflected shot back at the DK
4. Win

EDIT: The above method doesn't work. Sorry!

kijima · October 2014

I like it, it means diversity not being able to do the same thing for every class.

Reflective stops ranged bow attacks sure, but we do have other weapons and strategies to take them down.

First time I tried to bring down a DK with reflective with bow shots and caltrops meant I went BOOM very quickly and it had me wondering what the hell happened.

Astien · October 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

1. Fire your snipe shot
2. DK reflects it
3. Switch to 1h-shield and cast defensive posture to reflect the reflected shot back at the DK
4. Win

Yeah, Except defensive posture only reflects spell and not arrows.

Aeratus · October 2014

Astien wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

1. Fire your snipe shot
2. DK reflects it
3. Switch to 1h-shield and cast defensive posture to reflect the reflected shot back at the DK
4. Win

Yeah, Except defensive posture only reflects spell and not arrows.

oh damn that sucks.

Astien · October 2014

Reflective scales doesn't effect any of the 2h abilities, This is correct... However, Try hitting a dk with 70% block mitigation, With standard up, and also, while being Invasioned/ talons perma locked on the ground.

melee on a dk is suicide as a NB.

I'm 208 weapon power with 2300 stam and I run Rally. At Most my Critical rushes hit for 300 on a blocking DK. So I dodge / vanish and keep hitting them with all I got.

The DK then falls below 50% health and Pops green Dragon blood and I have to start all over again.

therein lies the dilemma. Even if I wanted to melee a DK ( which I don't) they'd still have everything they need to counter anything a NB does.

I'm confident the only way to really kill a DK is to have another DK with you.

kijima · October 2014

Rubbish, you can take down a DK as an NB, I've done it. It's not exactly a huge achievement, although personally I'm more satisfied with killing a DK than I am another class. You just have to build for it.

Plenty of videos within this forum showing you proof.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · October 2014

It gets annoying sometimes, but it's not so bad. I just make sure I pick my targets wisely. If you see the scales, count before firing. If you see blazing shield going up a lot, not the best target to hit. If you see them blocking, wait for that to drop before you try to fire. If you don't feel like waiting for these things, pick a new target.

Obviously this only pertains to siege warfare, not being caught off guard by somebody. Bow thrives at stealth attacks, try to take advantage of it.

I play a DK archer and reflective scales helps with counter-sniping a lot.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

kijima wrote: »

Rubbish, you can take down a DK as an NB, I've done it. It's not exactly a huge achievement, although personally I'm more satisfied with killing a DK than I am another class. You just have to build for it.

Plenty of videos within this forum showing you proof.

You won't take down a magicka dk with any stam build in an even fight. From stealth And you snipe, and you may have a chance unless he hits dragon blood.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

kijima wrote: »

Rubbish, you can take down a DK as an NB, I've done it. It's not exactly a huge achievement, although personally I'm more satisfied with killing a DK than I am another class. You just have to build for it.

Plenty of videos within this forum showing you proof.

Red herring, its the stam part you should focus on not the nb.

Hypertionb14_ESO · October 2014

morvegil wrote: »

So with Damage shields and now reflective scales...I have pretty much zero chance of killing a DK as a Stamina build NB. They can pop standard of might and flash lash my ass away while my shots DO NOTHING. No damage, or get reflected back to me.

So is the only viable NB build the cloth wearing caster?

cloth does no better. you would just be trading Lethal arrow for funnel health

Valymer · October 2014

Defensive Posture should be updated to reflect ALL projectiles.

Sharee · October 2014

Valymer wrote: »

Defensive Posture should be updated to reflect ALL projectiles.

Or reflective scale should be updated to do what it's tooltip says it should do - reflect only magical projectiles.

Valymer · October 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Defensive Posture should be updated to reflect ALL projectiles.

Or reflective scale should be updated to do what it's tooltip says it should do - reflect only magical projectiles.

Is that what it says? This is wrong then? (I seriously don't know, never played a DK)

http://www.esohead.com/skills/21007-reflective-scale

TehMagnus · October 2014

You don't need reflective scales or projectile reflects to say bows users are useless

IMO bows should be used for their AOE's. I wish people coordinated more with bow attacks when big raids are facing each other, but 3 shotting someone when breaking stealth and then running for your life or just dying like nothing if a melee gets close to you sound pretty useless to me in any case.

Sleep · October 2014

Shoot him with your bow, kill yourself, revive somewhere else. Or go stealthed, switch your skills, use fear, ambush, etc, then attack.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

You don't need reflective scales or projectile reflects to say bows users are useless

IMO bows should be used for their AOE's. I wish people coordinated more with bow attacks when big raids are facing each other, but 3 shotting someone when breaking stealth and then running for your life or just dying like nothing if a melee gets close to you sound pretty useless to me in any case.

I agree actually, I got tired of bow and in large PVP you just end up being a leach build, you can heal yourself, you can't heal your team mates. You just end up being a one shot, kill a dude and then not much else build.

Maulkin · October 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Defensive Posture should be updated to reflect ALL projectiles.

Or reflective scale should be updated to do what it's tooltip says it should do - reflect only magical projectiles.

It hasn't said that for a while. They said their intention was to reflect all projectiles, as the skill always did, so they changed the tooltip to match.

Nysticc · October 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

1. Fire your snipe shot
2. DK reflects it
3. Switch to 1h-shield and cast defensive posture to reflect the reflected shot back at the DK
4. Win

Won't work. Posture only reflects spells like shards or funnel health. It will NOT reflect snipe.

Soulac · October 2014

1. Run him out of stamina with your shadow and slow + dmg him with cripple.
2. 3 seconds after using scales Stun him
3. Full Dps on him.

Yes bow is *** against DKs but it's possible. (Well not against rly good DKs but against the most of them)

If he use high Stamina Reg and Arena Set.. Well run away and jump on the Nope-Train.

I would like to try bow but this is the main reason against it.

driosketch · October 2014

Don't scales not reflect regular light and heavy bow attacks? I know they don't reflect silver shards as of right now, which is usually the combo I use when I see the scales go up. I've never seen damage back from either, though I've certainly seen it from venom arrow and the strife line.

Yusuf · October 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

1. Fire your snipe shot
2. DK reflects it
3. Switch to 1h-shield and cast defensive posture to reflect the reflected shot back at the DK
4. Win

Too sad only spells get reflected. I do the same with my Crystal Fragments though.

Aeratus · October 2014

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

So with Damage shields and now reflective scales...I have pretty much zero chance of killing a DK as a Stamina build NB. They can pop standard of might and flash lash my ass away while my shots DO NOTHING. No damage, or get reflected back to me.

So is the only viable NB build the cloth wearing caster?

cloth does no better. you would just be trading Lethal arrow for funnel health

Cloth or not isn't the important part. However, a lot of NB builds that can directly fight DKs on equal terms have the following features in common:

1. 1h-shield and resto staff build
2. Magicka oriented build (regardless of armor type)
3. Reliance on magicka-based melee skills like veiled strike

Cloth does not determine the amount of magicka you have. Cloth only lowers the cost of casting spells, increases spell crit (irrelevant in pvp), and spell penetration (irrelevant since item (3) above relies on armor penetration rather than spell penetration). People have been using medium/heavy armor magicka builds as well.

TheBull · October 2014

driosketch wrote: »

Don't scales not reflect regular light and heavy bow attacks? I know they don't reflect silver shards as of right now, which is usually the combo I use when I see the scales go up. I've never seen damage back from either, though I've certainly seen it from venom arrow and the strife line.

Yes scales reflects light and heavy attacks. Look closer.

Astien · October 2014

kijima wrote: »

Rubbish, you can take down a DK as an NB, I've done it. It's not exactly a huge achievement, although personally I'm more satisfied with killing a DK than I am another class. You just have to build for it.

Plenty of videos within this forum showing you proof.

Show me one of you doing that and I will applaud you. I have virtually unlimited stamina and magicka, I can crit rush, executioner, dodge roll and vanish all I want. Still die every time.

Drazhar14 · October 2014

Use arrow spray. I'm pretty sure it can't be reflected since it's AoE. It's also really useful for hitting players who are in stealth.

AllPlayAndNoWork · October 2014

morvegil wrote: »

So with Damage shields and now reflective scales...I have pretty much zero chance of killing a DK as a Stamina build NB. They can pop standard of might and flash lash my ass away while my shots DO NOTHING. No damage, or get reflected back to me.

So is the only viable NB build the cloth wearing caster?

My alt NB is double bow.

I've learned to count to three, then I fire an arrow with focused aim sometimes I win sometimes I lose. And the bow skill line has plenty to help kill DK's.

Mass Hysteria helps a lot as well.

stumpy999 · October 2014

Dude, I am a Templar, and I manage to kill dk's. Now I am not saying that it is a fair 1v1 fight with no support.

But meh

It isn't about fighting pretty, or your solo skillz.

Change your playstyle. Stealth up, wait for someone to engage a guy then finish him. Oh unfair, you didn't solo him. No, but he is dead............

Don't expect to mix it 1v1 in a fair fight when your class is about ambush etc.

In fact abandon the concept of fighting fair, it will free you.....