Dear Zenimax, let's talk PvP and what it means for business

Laenuriel · October 2014

I am posting this looking at the current state of PvP, compared to what it used to be.
All indicators seem to point to Zenimax having put PvP content in the back burner while focusing on new PvP content without fixing Cyrodil.
While someone else has previously posted about what should be fixed, I actually want to ask whether Zenimax not fixing Cyrodil is simply a matter of business.
I used to belong to a large Multi-Gaming guild of over 600 active members, with about 300 active members playing ESO at launch, doing organised PvP. Sadly for me, when the GM said they were dropping the game to play Archeage, every single member except perhaps 10, left the game and went to Archeage. I know of other guilds where this happened, simply because they thought server performance for PvP was lacklustre, and every incoming patch seemed to make it worse, with crashes, bugs and lag.
So obviously Zenimax does not care much for the pure PvP subscribers, who came into the game in large numbers but also left the game in large numbers when gameplay quality deteriorated.
Let's say a PvP guild back then had on average 100 active PvP-only members, and they left the game because of performance issues (developer side) that means about £15 (don't know about Euro or USD sub price) per month Zenimax lost, but that is just one guild.
The stories abound of fantastic players and well organised guilds with huge recruiting power that brought people (subscribers, money) to the game, but left when performance dropped and PvP became just an annoying side note for those in charge of server performance at Zenimax.
If you know of other guilds and large groups of players who took their money elsewhere (as much as it hurt given their time investment). Please let ZOS know in this thread. Whether PvP gets fixed or not is primarily a business decision, not whether ZOS cares about the reputation of the game or not (which may come primarily from its PvE content).
Thank you all.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Their main focus for PvP, in my opinion, should be fixing lag/crashes before adding new content. I can't play in NA prime-time without lagging or getting a weird "freeze", i.e my character can move around but everyone else, friend+foes+NPCs stop moving and I eventually get un-logged. Sure, it's kinda funny to run around an enemy keep full of enemies without them moving a muscle, but it gets old after a while.
This has been the same since launch. This should have been fixed months ago.

EDIT: before the inevitable "get a better PC" comments, it's a brand new 2014 gaming desktop. I only have problems with ESO.

Cody · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Their main focus for PvP, in my opinion, should be fixing lag/crashes before adding new content. I can't play in NA prime-time without lagging or getting a weird "freeze", i.e my character can move around but everyone else, friend+foes+NPCs stop moving and I eventually get un-logged. Sure, it's kinda funny to run around an enemy keep full of enemies without them moving a muscle, but it gets old after a while.
This has been the same since launch. This should have been fixed months ago.

EDIT: before the inevitable "get a better PC" comments, it's a brand new 2014 gaming desktop. I only have problems with ESO.

its not your PC. it was not anywhere near this bad at launch.

kewl · October 2014

Laenuriel wrote: »

Sadly for me, when the GM said they were dropping the game to play Archeage, every single member except perhaps 10, left the game and went to Archeage. I know of other guilds where this happened, simply because they thought server performance for PvP was lacklustre, and every incoming patch seemed to make it worse, with crashes, bugs and lag.

We used to get a full raid and half on weekends. After Archeage, four or five groups. Most of them cited bugs as reason for leaving.

Bipolo · October 2014

Performance issues are getting old.

I can avoid and understand prime time stress on the servers. However, what really is starting to get to me and putting me off from playing is the delay/lag/bad performance we have at low/medium population hours, and i mean across all three alliances.

Something is very wrong when you cant even enjoy stable gameplay when Cyrodiil is close to empty.

jkirchner71ub17_ESO2 · October 2014

I get a bit tired of hearing people *** about no new content when I think most of us would be content knowing the new content is on the way but the NUMBER 1 priority is fixing the current state of Cyrodiil. I remember reading players complain with each patch / update notes saying "once again no new PvP content". I get it Cyrodiil is what 6 months old now and yes PvE has gotten lots of new content but to be honest I'd much rather see the current state of Cyrodiil addressed before the Imperial City goes live. New content could make the mess we have in Cyrodiil catastrophic in my opinion as we have seen how each update and patch introduce a new series of issues.

I think most of us would agree that lag/crashes/rollbacks, FPS deterioration, doors still not always working, class balance/broken skills, troll camps/FCs, siege equipment improvements / tweaks and keep improvements / tweaks should take precedence over new content but then again this is a business and I'm guessing they are banking on new content generating subscription and re-subscription interest.

Sapphy24 · October 2014

I basically joined for the end game which is PvP.
For me its gone from an enjoyable experience to one of frustration with its crashes, lag, LONG stops like for 3 or 4 minutes, can't change weapons, can't get on my horse, roll backs , doors that sometimes require you to change weapons to enter, and numerous other issues.

Now i'm waiting for the next update on WoW and will play that until the new game called for now "Camelot Unchained" comes out.
This is to be a 3 realm RvR game (pvp) and I will invest in it.

There was so much promise in this game, I loved pve (alone) wandering and looking but end game is so bad I can't find the right words to describe it.

I'm very sad that this game has just screwed everything up with its rush to put out new content for groups when people don't seem to want to play this way, and ignore the fact that Cyrodiil gets buggier and buggier by the day and nothing appears to be done about it.

All aggro belongs solely on the heads of the person or persons who make the decisions as to what gets done, and has brought PvP and the game to its knees by not prioritising crucial repairs .

Mondrely · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Their main focus for PvP, in my opinion, should be fixing lag/crashes before adding new content. I can't play in NA prime-time without lagging or getting a weird "freeze", i.e my character can move around but everyone else, friend+foes+NPCs stop moving and I eventually get un-logged. Sure, it's kinda funny to run around an enemy keep full of enemies without them moving a muscle, but it gets old after a while.
This has been the same since launch. This should have been fixed months ago.

EDIT: before the inevitable "get a better PC" comments, it's a brand new 2014 gaming desktop. I only have problems with ESO.

I'm in the same boat as you. Made a few significant upgrades to my computer prior to ESO's release, and they seem to have been wasted money when it comes to this game.

Suru · October 2014

It should be their only focus as PVP is the only focus for many players in this game.

jonasa100 · October 2014

Been here from beta, had 100's active in the guild most of the time, brought most from the last mmo we all played together, this game fails hard when it comes to pvp.

They keep giving us pure s..t patches that just screw pvp up more and more.

They will not give us dueling or small pvp like arenas because it will show how out of balance the classes/builds really are and it will be the demise of cyr aka lagpvpzergfest.

PVP in this game is not fun at all and really is a chore, and yes I play/played other pvp mmos and think I'm done here.

This game had so much potential but has failed horribly due to mismanagement, this mmo is like so many before it that came out of the gate but failed its customers.

Remember this "play as you want" another bad joke that's on us as paying subscribers

See you guys in the next one

Vorpan · October 2014

I'd rather fixes than new content. Heck, the troll campers don't bother me nearly as much as the lag/crashes/ect do. My boyfriend and I were very much looking forward to this game, but now we're wondering why we bother paying for something that is more frustrating than fun.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2014

I agree they appear to be focusing on the wrong issues but then when focused on they implement a less than ideal solution. Granted I can't see their internal road map for pvp content but for example the camps issue.

The proposed change of limiting players buying them is rubbish. It should be the system suggested many times... you can't res unless you die within that camps radius.
This would have the effect of spreading bomb groups out and may even help the lag a little.

That being said this still isn't new pvp content wishing for fixes to something can only file excitement for so long.

Inner cyro is pve content based in a pvp zone. I don't know many who are excited about that in my PvP community, I'm sure it will be a little entertaining but not excited about the content
Give us new keeps, new sieges. Different gameplay mechanics. I'm more excited about spell crafting for its impact on pvp than inner cyro...

To the OPs point. Yes many many people have left in search of better open world pvp experiences who site lag and crashes as their main reason.

Cody · October 2014

as long as ZOS considers PvE>PvP, this game wont last too much longer.

Darthryan · October 2014

Either this company doesn't know how to actually fix their game or they don't play it. Here's a link to a thread I started

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135149/camera-view-while-using-catapults#latest

when the admin asks what's wrong with it.... I'm like wtf spend 5mins playing the game using a catapalt and you would know. Is it fixed? No.
Is mundus stone affects fixed?
Dark cloak?

We all know how the two mundus affect armor is going to work.

Nidwin · October 2014

Cody wrote: »

as long as ZOS considers PvE>PvP, this game wont last too much longer.

I hope that PvErs >>>>>>>>>> RvRers, otherwise, ouch.

And as long as it's PvErs >>>>>>>> RvRers ZoS should focus on PVE and toss us a bone once in a while.

Lfehova · October 2014

I've had a ton of friends quit too. Someone cited that the pvp population is only one small portion of the playerbase.

I believed that.

But then I looked at leaderboards for the trials and realize there aren't that many people playing pve either.

I think ZoS might just be trying to cruise by on casual subscribers. They seem to not truly care about pvp. They made a smart move by making the new trials hard enough the average eso player can't complete it. Now there is a carrot to chase for PvErs.

I expect the pvpers to get some similar carrot soon so that ZoS can keep subscribers while they either work on some seriously new content, or totally give up on this game and move on.

You have to know, that this is a business. And when a business becomes unprofitable, it closes.

ghengis_dhan · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

EDIT: before the inevitable "get a better PC" comments, it's a brand new 2014 gaming desktop. I only have problems with ESO.

I'm now thinking it is more related to your computer build (graphics card, RAM, etc.). My son and I PvP side-by-side over the same router. I lag all the time in big battles. His Alienware laptop almost never lags. Of course, his is newer, so I assumed that was the reason.

As to the original posting: I'm sure players who only want the PvP aspect of ESO are frustrated, and many left. I play both inside and outside Cyrodiil, so even though the lag is annoying, I'm still going to play. I just need to get me a laptop like my son's so I have a better Cyrodiilic experience.