Do you think the new proposed changes will Eliminate the "Pulse Fest"

rackman · October 2014

Say what you want but PVP is a Zerg Pulse Fest

Bat Swarm maybe but you get Zergs with thier only strategy is to get as many pulses as possible.

I mean really do you think this will be the start to balance?

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

They reduced the range of Impulse, which won't do a damned thing to stop zergmonkeys from using it.

They reduced the healing given by Devouring Swarm, did nothing to it's other morph, still this will not stop people utilizing broken builds that generate WAY TOO MUCH Ultimate from using Bat Swarm.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

I personally don't expect to see any change to face-to-keyboard style spamfests.

timidobserver · October 2014

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

Sleep · October 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

If people begin spamming steel tornado, they will nerf it.

Varicite · October 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

Don't they both have the same target cap anyway?

Or is the Steel Tornado morph able to hit more max targets than Whirlwind?

I know that Whirlwind and Impulse both have the same target limit, which is 6.

Arowe_eso · October 2014

theres a big difference between the two skills on the mechanical level that makes impulse better than tornado. Thats not to say tornado isnt viable or strong.

Reduction of radius on impulse makes it easier to get out of the way, which should help against those who stealth up and flank outside keeps, and could help in higher latency situations. It also brings impulse closer in radius to other aoe abilities, which allows them to assess its strength compared to all aoes more accurately.

The aoe cap changes should lead to some improvements to gameplay. large groups that spam aoe damage with some CC and heals interspersed wont be able to rely on numbers as their primary source of damage reduction, and will require more active resource and position management from each member. AoEs hitting everyone, even at a reduced damage rate will also force these large groups to slot and use more defensive abilities to stay alive, thus resulting in less cast windows and magicka for single skill spam.

I dont think its going to reinvent the pvp meta, but it will allow more builds to shine, and should create an environment where skill is more of a factor in large aoe battles

Columba · October 2014

impulse monkey pukes will still faceroll.

Teargrants · October 2014

Nothing will change for the impulse blob and against another stacked group, the fact that fewer ppl will be in range of the impulse means that each impulse is more liable to hit the same 6 ppl each time compared to before, effectively increasing the burst DMG for the impulse blob. For this change to be an actual nerf, aoe caps need to be removed.

Likewise the heal reduction on devouring swarm doesn't change anything for the zerggers spamming clouding swarm.

Grim13 · October 2014

In most games I've ever played AoE did a lot less damage because the benefit to it was hitting more enemies.

More but less.

Here AoE does as much damage as most single target attacks and is repeatedly spammable... if ZOS made it so Impulse did 200 dmg and had a 1 or 2 second cooldown... problem solved.

Bashev · October 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

False! Steel tornado is blockable while impulse is not.

Bramir · October 2014

Reducing the radius on pulsar will have a major impact, because it will be really easy to get out of the aoe, or avoid it altogether.

Rylana · October 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

hmm, actually this has already been true before this was even discussed.

its something myself and a few guildies always talked about, why people run destro/light all the time for AOE DPS when a sap/tornado medium nightblade build actually does more DPS (especially vs light armor users)

Throw in swarms and veils and a bomb group of six to eight nightblades could do some SERIOUS hurting (while also passively healing each other the whole time)

Huntler · October 2014

Rylana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

hmm, actually this has already been true before this was even discussed.

its something myself and a few guildies always talked about, why people run destro/light all the time for AOE DPS when a sap/tornado medium nightblade build actually does more DPS (especially vs light armor users)

Throw in swarms and veils and a bomb group of six to eight nightblades could do some SERIOUS hurting (while also passively healing each other the whole time)

And then proceed to get wrecked by a team with half a brain, 1 negate, and block.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

How to eliminate pulsefests: remove AoE caps, enable friendly fire for AoE.

Puslefests will be gone in less than a day. Guaranteed.

Of course ZOS won't do this, but it's nice to dream...

Rylana · October 2014

Huntler wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

hmm, actually this has already been true before this was even discussed.

its something myself and a few guildies always talked about, why people run destro/light all the time for AOE DPS when a sap/tornado medium nightblade build actually does more DPS (especially vs light armor users)

Throw in swarms and veils and a bomb group of six to eight nightblades could do some SERIOUS hurting (while also passively healing each other the whole time)

And then proceed to get wrecked by a team with half a brain, 1 negate, and block.

Incorrect as it is still unblockable AOE and the same strategy to out maneuver a negate applies as it would with any other class mix, just with more movement potential due to less stamina costs to roll dodge or sprint.

The increases to weapon power caps really put tornado back on par with impulse (you can stack weapon damage on two weapons wayyyy higher than you can on a staff). The only configuration that does more damage is a DK firebomber in PBAoE.

And dont forget, all those shield stackers out there get torn to shreds by physical damage.

eliisra · October 2014

Sounds like it will be slightly more doable defending flagrooms against Impulse spam filling both floors. Maybe 6 meters Impulse range means you can stand in the actual room you're trying to defend?

Will not stop blobbing though. Having 50+ players stand on top of each other spamming animations and synergies, that will still be the auto win tactic in PvP.

Not only because you avoid taking dmg hiding behind numbers, but you also lag out and crash your opponents, preventing them from using skills, ulti, oil and siege. There's really no way to counter it. Cant do a single thing. Only PBAoE like Impulse and synergies will deal dmg, when elite monkey groups intentionally kills server performance to take a keep.

Huntler · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

How to eliminate pulsefests: remove AoE caps, enable friendly fire for AoE.

Puslefests will be gone in less than a day. Guaranteed.

Of course ZOS won't do this, but it's nice to dream...

Why do people think friendly fire would make this game good. You realize there is a reason no MMO with PvP has ever done this right? Friendly fire would be a nightmare. You'll get *** like me when I am bored one night killing all my allies because I tend to hate AD lemmings.... You'd be freaking miserable (let alone this being something implementable). Do you even think some of your ideas through before vomiting them on the forums?

Rylana wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

An equally coordinated/skilled steel tornado spamming group should obliterate an impulse spamming group once the changes go live. That is just in theory though. Given the big difference in radius, the impulse group should take a group deal more damage.

hmm, actually this has already been true before this was even discussed.

its something myself and a few guildies always talked about, why people run destro/light all the time for AOE DPS when a sap/tornado medium nightblade build actually does more DPS (especially vs light armor users)

Throw in swarms and veils and a bomb group of six to eight nightblades could do some SERIOUS hurting (while also passively healing each other the whole time)

And then proceed to get wrecked by a team with half a brain, 1 negate, and block.

Incorrect as it is still unblockable AOE and the same strategy to out maneuver a negate applies as it would with any other class mix, just with more movement potential due to less stamina costs to roll dodge or sprint.

The increases to weapon power caps really put tornado back on par with impulse (you can stack weapon damage on two weapons wayyyy higher than you can on a staff). The only configuration that does more damage is a DK firebomber in PBAoE.

And dont forget, all those shield stackers out there get torn to shreds by physical damage.

Steel tornado is blockable, try it out... and laugh. In fact, carve is blockable too... noticing a pattern here?

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Huntler wrote: »

Why do people think friendly fire would make this game good. You realize there is a reason no MMO with PvP has ever done this right? Friendly fire would be a nightmare. You'll get *** like me when I am bored one night killing all my allies because I tend to hate AD lemmings.... You'd be freaking miserable (let alone this being something implementable). Do you even think some of your ideas through before vomiting them on the forums?

I never said it was a good idea, I said it'd get rid of pulsefests, which it would.
It goes without saying griefers would exploit it, they exploit everything.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · October 2014

As long as impulse is unblockable it will rule the battlefield. Either give it an activation time or make it blockable.

Insurrektion · October 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

They reduced the range of Impulse, which won't do a damned thing to stop zergmonkeys from using it.

They reduced the healing given by Devouring Swarm, did nothing to it's other morph, still this will not stop people utilizing broken builds that generate WAY TOO MUCH Ultimate from using Bat Swarm.

They plan to make it so the swarms cant overlap. that is, if someone has a swarm going up and you try to cast swarm right next to them, you'll get your ultimate refunded and the spell will be canceled.

Joy_Division · October 2014

Grim13 wrote: »

In most games I've ever played AoE did a lot less damage because the benefit to it was hitting more enemies.

More but less.

Here AoE does as much damage as most single target attacks and is repeatedly spammable... if ZOS made it so Impulse did 200 dmg and had a 1 or 2 second cooldown... problem solved.

Yes, spread disinformation around. It's great for winning arguments and improving the game.

impulse: 9 magic damage + chance for 1 status effect
destructive touch: 11 magic damage + cc effect
force shock: 12 magic damage + various effects + range
critical charge : 11 damage + always crits + status effect + range
uppecut: 22 damage
reverse slash: 8-24 damage depending on target's health.
silver bolts: 16 damage + stuff vs daedra/undead + range
entropy: 24 magic damage dot + heals + range
searing strike: 11 damage + 32 damage dot
lava whip: 19 damage
stonefist: 13 damage + knockdown
assassin blade: 14-42 damage depending on target's health
veiled strike: 22 damage + stun from stealth
strife: 18 damage + heals
cripple: 40 damage dot + slow
crystal shard: 29 damage + knockdown +range
daedric curse: 22 damage +range
mage's fury: 7 damage + 27 damage vs low health targets +range
piercing javelin: 13 damage + knockdown +range
focused charge: 17 damage + interrupt + range
sun fire: 13 damage + 18 damage dot + range + snare
solar flare: 28 damage + attack buff + range
flurry: 25 damage
hidden blade: 14 damage + snare + range
twin slashed: 3 damage + 24 damage dot
snipe: 26 damage + range
scattershot: 10 damage + knockback
poison arrow: 9 damage + 8 damage dot + range

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

Varicite · October 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If people are spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

Or using it for the health debuff or DoT that the morphs provide.

The health debuff alone is worth keeping up against most opponents, especially since Impulse can't be blocked like most of the abilities you listed.

Take every single ability that you listed that can be blocked and halve their damage. Voila, now Impulse is doing more than most of them + great morph effects.

That's why people spam it and other AoE abilities against players. Players block. Impulse can't be blocked.

Almost everything else you listed can. There are a whopping 3 abilities on that list you posted that will go through block.

Bashev · October 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

I can block any single target skill if it is not a dot and receive less damage than impulse. That is the problem.

Sypher · October 2014

Bashev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

I can block any single target skill if it is not a dot and receive less damage than impulse. That is the problem.

^

AOE builds ult too fast. Tone the ult gain down.

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2014

Just gonna say it. One way i think both firey pulse and bat swarm spamming can be reduce is to either make them planted AoEs like DK standers or directional cone attacks like fire breath instead of a travel with you AoE. That is my opinion though sure alot of others wont agree cause they want them to be broken so the can ruin PvP even more.

Joy_Division · October 2014

Varicite wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If people are spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

Or using it for the health debuff or DoT that the morphs provide.

The health debuff alone is worth keeping up against most opponents, especially since Impulse can't be blocked like most of the abilities you listed.

Take every single ability that you listed that can be blocked and halve their damage. Voila, now Impulse is doing more than most of them + great morph effects.

That's why people spam it and other AoE abilities against players. Players block. Impulse can't be blocked.

Almost everything else you listed can. There are a whopping 3 abilities on that list you posted that will go through block.

Edit: the issue here is that impulse can't be blocked whereas other skills can be, not the skill itself being too good.

Joy_Division · October 2014

Bashev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

I can block any single target skill if it is not a dot and receive less damage than impulse. That is the problem.

I agree with this BUT I do not think this matches the popular narrative out there. People whine and complain about impulse being too strong and Zenimax has twice nerfed this skill. But the problem is, as you pointed out, the skill can't be blocked. Zenimax has done nothing here.

Might I suggest more focused and specific feedback of problem issues? I hate hearing how impulse is OP because the skill by-itself is not and the comparison I made still stands true. Or at least it should. If more people articulated exactly what issues are instead of vague complaining, the more likely Zenimax will be inclined to make meaningful changes

krim · October 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

I can block any single target skill if it is not a dot and receive less damage than impulse. That is the problem.

^

AOE builds ult too fast. Tone the ult gain down.

Dont encourage bad builds. More people need to incorporate some type of aoe in their builds. Two bars people use them...

Sorry people you cant play the game your way. As long as there is ultimates in the game, that is going to be the meta in large fights.. spamming ultimates.

Braidas · October 2014

krim wrote: »

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact of the matter is impulse out-damages *one* single target ability: fiery grip. If a person is spamming impulse against everything they see, then that player is either misinformed or just a moron.

I can block any single target skill if it is not a dot and receive less damage than impulse. That is the problem.

^

AOE builds ult too fast. Tone the ult gain down.

Dont encourage bad builds. More people need to incorporate some type of aoe in their builds. Two bars people use them...

Sorry people you cant play the game your way. As long as there is ultimates in the game, that is going to be the meta in large fights.. spamming ultimates.

Ciertamente.