Welka wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

@Holycannoli Regarding the name "Solo dungeons". This is an error on the part of the add-on maker, who has accidentally seeded a major misconception; there is no such thing as a "solo dungeon". Their correct in-game name is Delves. (And, as said above, delves are not instanced, and this is about Solo Instances.)

Welka wrote: »

Sorry guys but we mustn't be playing the same game. ESO is my first MMO and its my first PC game. I face rolled all solo content with my DK stamina DW and bow, with broken armor and using hardly any potion. I have a reroll sorcerer, same scenario. Broken armor, no buff, no potion, no soul gem and fighting with a resto staff. Walk in a park, even at vet level. Just started a NB that's level 20 in DC. Same story again. Face rolling quests above my level. It's just boring.

Now the forum is becoming a joke between people complaining about forced group content AND forced solo content...

Sorry guys but scaling IS a good thing

@Welka‌ scaling is good, but the option of only having scaling if you want it is better.

Yep, then the reward and XP must be optional too...

Absolutely. With scaling turned off, the reward would be as it is now; fixed at the level of the quest, and therefore relatively insignificant if you are playing a quest 10+ levels over. With scaling on, you'd get a meaningful reward.

Yeah but what's the point? It is already so laughingly easy. Is this what gaming has become? Select easy mode, run through it as fast as possible and move on... If you get stuck somewhere, it's obviously the game that's too hard and need nerfing...

Laughingly easy for you and many others. But still there are people who find stuff difficult and answer to them is that just go play pingpong. Or they can hit brickwall with their head until either head or the wall breaks. Now we are really talking about solo instanced content emphasis on the word solo. After scaling you are not able to outlevel it to make it easier and you are not able to bring friend with you to help you through, so well just quit.

We don't need those poor casual or disabled gamers anyway they should play the simple games. We do have to remember the title here 'The Elder Scrolls' which huge success came with Skyrim. So all kinds of players got interested of the title The Elder Scrolls and now they like to play TESO. I'm sure Bethesda and Zenimax doesn't mind having all those players that played Skyrim to play TESO with monthly fee.

Naah... Since success of Skyrim let's make TES game that is difficult enough that no below average gamer can pass the main quest, even if trying to outlevel or ask someone to help.

Welka wrote: »

What an overreaction. To out level some quests, you need first to complete some at your level. So how did these "casuals" overcome this huge difficulty? What's the difference then?

Or maybe they grind mud crabs until all quests turn gray?

At some point, games need to stop holding the players hands. That's my opinion

Yeah, because screw anyone who has RSI, or arthritis, or the early stages of any neuromuscular degeneration. They should get the hell out of your game, right?

Also, screw the players that, due to game balance, have a hard time getting the appropriate spec for a specific piece of content.

After all, the only way you're supposed to pass halls of torment is to nuke your character and roll a dark magic Sorcerer, right? I mean, not taking Negate Magic into that fight is just a stupid choice, right? They should be punished for that. Nightblades, yeah, we don't need no stinkin' dual wield nightblades. They're doing it wrong, and should be punished, right?

It's not about holding people's hands, it's about making sure the game doesn't die.

Look, in an MMO, when you start throwing roadblocks in front of players it's not just that player that leaves. It's the friends and family who don't stick around as their friend goes back to WoW, or whatever.

You want to see what happens to a game where the difficulty just keeps getting ramped up by a sadist? Look at The Secret World, and it's ever dwindling population. Look at it and realize it was forced to go F2P in under six months. This whole, "you need a perfect build and perfect coordination to do everything" crap is an express lane to Elder Scrolls dying, unless that's actually what you want.

Welka wrote: »

At some point, games need to stop holding the players hands. That's my opinion

A recent poll showed that a clear majority of the TESO players think that the "story" is the most important part of the game. The solo instances are precisely those that are part of the main story lines. It would seem that one of the biggest things that ZOS can do to put a dent in their wallet is to put barriers in place that prevent people from experiencing the story - such as changing the game mechanics so that players can't, or out of frustration won't, complete the quests needed to advance the story line. Players have widely varying tolerances to doing the same thing again, and again, and again, and again, when what they really want is to experience the story. ZOS should "hold players hands" all they feel is necessary to keep players and keep the $$ coming in.

What ZOS needs to do is figure out what will bring in the most $$ - no scaling, only scaling, or optional scaling. It would seem obvious that ZOS currently believes that "only scaling" is the way to maximize $$, as that is the proposed direction - but it is quite possible they are incorrect. Players providing feedback is a good way to help ZOS make a good decision. Personally, given the info I've seen about the TESO player base, I believe that the revenue from players that will continue to subscribe given a scaling option vs no option, would outweigh the development costs of implementing the scaling option, making having a scaling option the best choice for the game.

Enodoc wrote: »

Absolutely. With scaling turned off, the reward would be as it is now; fixed at the level of the quest, and therefore relatively insignificant if you are playing a quest 10+ levels over. With scaling on, you'd get a meaningful reward.

Are we sure about that? Main, mage and fighters guild quest rewards are all level specific - they don't scale to your level. If scaling increases reward levels then it would be best to purposely level as high as possible before doing them.

If scaling doesn't affect reward levels, then we're doing more difficult content for the same lower level reward if we outlevel the quests, purposely or not. We will be fighting higher level mobs for low level rewards and that's never acceptable. And it's pretty easy to outlevel quests unless you do absolutely nothing else. I've outleveled entire maps because I wanted to spend some time in cyrodiil.

I never thought about this until now.

Enodoc wrote: »

Interesting point that. Easy to check though; just roll two different level toons on PTS and run them through the same quest.[/quote]

Actually, just use the Template and roll a VR14 and then roll a L1, then you will see the difference in the loot in very little time.

Syntse wrote: »

There are games and titles that straight do not hold your hand like Dark Souls and Ninja Gaiden...

Something I feel gets lost in this is, if Dark Souls was only a stupidly difficult game, it wouldn't have the following it does. It's also tuned in a way that makes it absurdly satisfying. This is what games like Bound by Flame and The Secret World miss when they go chasing after the "Dark Souls is popular because it's hard," train.

ESO is good, but it isn't quite good enough to justify the kind of difficulty spikes that Dark Souls uses.

It also doesn't mesh thematically. Dark Souls is a game that creates a pervasive, oppressive atmosphere from the start, that's more in line with survival horror games than an action RPG. The difficulty and unforgivingly brutal combat feed into the idea that you (as the player) are being slowly ground down. It's the Elirc to ESO's Conan. People who look at it and just copy the difficulty are missing the message for the method.

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

What does bother me is that at a certain level,the quests start being two to three levels above you.It makes the boss extremely hard to take down alone,in a solo fight.
Also,many solo dungeons will have others playing with you in it as well,ie public.BUT, when you get to the final boss,in another chamber,as in the Choral Heart,no one is with you even though your pal was and went in too.He is in his own world.
If we are going to be forced in a public dungeon to do the end fight alone,the level should be the same as yours is.

I guess it depends on how many of the side quests you do. I am always overlevelled rather than underlevelled, and quests are 2 or 3 levels below me.

The final boss in a quest I believe should be shared between a group if you are grouped with your friends (otherwise it would be on their list of solo instances, and would scale as well).

I love it if everything scale to stay challenging but i also would like to have options for those who do not like that.

You want to see what happens to a game where the difficulty just keeps getting ramped up by a sadist? Look at The Secret World, and it's ever dwindling population. Look at it and realize it was forced to go F2P in under six months. This whole, "you need a perfect build and perfect coordination to do everything" crap is an express lane to Elder Scrolls dying, unless that's actually what you want.

I don't like where this discussion is going, people mix up so many things and generalize like there is no tomorrow.

First of all, there is always a perfect build in an RPG related MMO. Some will do more DPS, others will heal better while some are better for AOE and single target.

This however has zero to do with difficulty or the reason why people are removed from groups. Elitism is what you have to blame and not a general difficulty.
Look at WOW, a game that has zero difficulty left still inhabits the most elite crowd of ALL MMOs to date. Did you ever wonder why this is the case?

As easier games become, as more stupid and silly the requirements will be to join groups and this is a sad fact.

It's not about holding people's hands, it's about making sure the game doesn't die.

You act like an MMO would die just because its not a faceroll and this is very wrong. WOW was most successful during late TBC when the difficulty was very high.

With WOTLK WOW changed into faceroll and lost more than 5 mio subs.

In my opinion an MMO will especially then be healthy if players have something to work for and improve their own skills because this is what we call motivation and determination.

If you can see a game in one week then why continue? You are not mentally challenged, you don't see anything new either.

I am only a Casual but if ESO would become even easier then I just wouldn't get any satisfaction from it.

Yeah, because screw anyone who has RSI, or arthritis, or the early stages of any neuromuscular degeneration. They should get the hell out of your game, right?

I don't like it if people abuse a group of people to their advantage. Please stop doing this, its rude and disrespectful towards those who are really affected by such diseases.

No, what's mind boggling is overlevelling half of the quests and never have a use for the reward

This is not my screenshot but I'm posting it here:



That's what you can get if you wait till max level before doing the quests. So why do them earlier and get a lousy reward?

Holycannoli wrote: »

This is not my screenshot but I'm posting it here:



That's what you can get if you wait till max level before doing the quests. So why do them earlier and get a lousy reward?

Do you really want to wait until VR12 to get a blue ring with no set bonus? Jewelry with similar or better stats drop at endgame and they are part of a set. If the solo quests now gave best-in-slot items that all the min/max players wanted, it would be one thing. But they do not. It is actually best to run these quests early, because the items might actually be best-in-slot at Level 25 or so. But at VR12? Not the best items you can get.

It lets you do the instances when you want to. I hate having quests gray out on me, and this way if I over-level something I can still get rewards and enjoy it.

Audigy wrote: »

I don't like it if people abuse a group of people to their advantage. Please stop doing this, its rude and disrespectful towards those who are really affected by such diseases.

Then stop doing it, and leave the thread. You have posts in this thread from people who are telling you they have these issues, and you're saying, "meh, doesn't matter because I want to be teh elites." Saying, "nah, bro, there's no reason to care about people more unfortunate than me, they don't exist" is disgusting.

Also, on your other point, yeah, let's chase after WoW as hard as we can, I mean look how well it worked out for TOR!, they're swiming in subs... oh, wait... they have fewer active subs than ESO and were forced to go F2P in less than a year... yeah, let's copy that, GENIUS! Because what worked for WOW will work for us, as nearly every MMO that has tried to copy WOW has utterly disproved.