Are Nightblades underrated?

Aspectofwinter · October 2014

I'm a new player, and so far I've only reached Level 10, so be advised that this may not be the best place to gauge performance, but anyway...

So far I've found Nightblade is a fast, non-stop, intense DPS machine that never lets up. It tops off ESO's class roster with a bang. From the jumping strike to the assassinate ability, the DPS output seems much higher than that of the Templar, which I have tried as well. And like mentioned before, the Siphoning and Shadow skill trees have several tools to help with survival. Between your self-healing and vanishing skills, the class is more well suited to solo play than a lot of people seem to think.

If I had to describe this class in one word it would be “relentless.” The average rogue opens with the strongest burst damage abilities out of stealth and then get progressively weaker. Nightblade starts out big and gets even bigger due to ESO's action-oriented combat system. Teleport Strike is a useful opener and is very handy to have against all the Mage enemies who move away from you in the Ebonheart starting zones. If healing is your thing stick to Templar as Nightblade feels like it's meant to be primarily a melee DPS class. I haven't had too much trouble with conserving Magicka thanks to timing my use of Assassin's Blade at around 25% health remaining, which seems to finish off the enemy every time.

However, most people on the forums seem to disagree, citing things like bad survivability and the marginally useful sneaking system as Nightblade's major downfalls. So far I have found the class to have the most trouble with bosses (although just in general I have actually found Templar harder to level)

Some players insist that Nightblade is one of those classes you simply have to learn to play well, but I've since read other posts that say the opposite; though the class held a lot of promise, the implementation falls quite a long way short of the high standards one typically associates with Rogue-type classes.

So what do you think? Are Nightblades really in need of a major buff, or is this just typical class QQ I've been reading?

someuser · October 2014

I love my NB. However, lvl 10 is WAY to early to really judge any of the classes.

I actually found my NB to be quite weak up until lvl 35+. My Templar with Bitting Jabs and Reflective Light or Sorc with Crystal Fragments and Endless Fury was by FAR "easy mode" compared to my NB early on.

MiyaTheUnbroken · October 2014

I think it's definitely the most fun class in the game. I'm constantly giggling in PvP, and it's super fun to invis through dungeons since I don't really like doing those. I love being a NB and wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China. They can be extremely powerful, but they can also be tricky to play. As a templar, I found that I could make a mistake here or there and usually recover, but on my NB, even in PvE if I make a mistake it often ends poorly for me.

I don't think they need a major buff at all. They have the potential to be the most fearsome class in the game. Lurking through the shadows, you never see the coming. Before you can utter a cry you've fallen. If you happen to survive, by the time you've found your footing they've disappeared back into the shadows. Watching. Waiting. Stalking.

More than anything we just need for the skills we have to actually work. A lot of the complaints and bitterness you see stem from the fact that stealth and Dark Cloak, a NB's bread and butter, have not worked properly ever. They still don't work properly. I really think if those get fixed you'll see a drastic change on forums.

Rylana · October 2014

In the hands of a beginner that hasnt experienced all of the classes/enemies in the game, or the limits of the class itself, nightblade is daunting and can be a real challenge.

Master it, and youll be an unkillable destruction machine in PvP, as well as a monster damage dealer in PvE (or healer, or tank, pick your poison there)

I like to say that having played all classes I consider Nightblade to be the class that requires the most skill, knowledge, and strategy to play correctly. DK is probably the easiest, then templar, then sorc, with NB being the hardest one.

someuser · October 2014

My fear is that once they fix stealth and Cloak, people are going to scream nerf.

Like you said, playing a NB is not about brute strength. NBs generally have very poor CC skills and rely on being tactical to succeed.

This evening I was doing a mission where you had to collect 4 quest items that would disappear once picked up (including from other players trying to do the same mission). This one guy thought it was cute to steal one of the quest items I was going after so, as we were running towards some ice troll I just hit my stealth at the last minute, the dude behind me gets the agro, and while he is busy doing that I cleaned house of all the items and then stealthed through all the rest of the trash mobs leaving him to wait for the quest items to respawn and fight his way out. Oh so satisfying.

Guppet · October 2014

They have more frustrating abilities. Quite a few scale with magica but use weapon crit, so your armour lets you crit more (medium) or cast more (light), but never both. It's annoying. If they fix that, the class will be pretty perfect.

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

I can excel with my NB, however I can excel MORE with my other 3 characters which are the other 3 classes. NB feels incomplete whereas the other 3 classes feel complete. You can make NB work wonderfully, it's just a heck of a lot more effort.

With that said, I love playing as a NB. I just know they need to tweak it some more.

Jacques Berge · October 2014

I would say, given the current status of certain mechanics, I would say the strength of your NB is extremely dependent on your personal play style and your actual video game playing skills. I run stereotypical rogue type, Im super competitive in pvp duels, have high dps in PVE.

So, class is good... Lots of fun, just not the easiest.

GrimMauKin · October 2014

I love my Nightblade (it's the only character I play and have just turned VT8) but there are issues - most notably that a lot of skills most Nightblades depend on (stealth, shadow cloak etc.) are badly broken at present making gameplay a little erratic and highly frustrating (hopefully one day they'll get fixed).

I rely a lot of stealth, shadow cloak, stunning and snaring spells as well as some knockback archery skills; you will run up again MOBS (often world/dungeon bosses as well as Storm Atronachs - and I think that Cyrodill Honour Guard as similar) that can't be snared, stunned or knocked back and who can see straight through stealth. In these situations you will be at a major disadvantage and a high health, high DPS tank would probably fair much better (in some situations a high Stamina Regen value can allow you to wear them down with a lot of dodging and attacking). There don't seem to be any other types of MOB immunities that negate the bread and butter skills and disadvantage other classes/builds the same way that these do Nightblades.

I think that some people play ESO with a chess mind where every choice they make for a character is calculated for maximum efficiency (a perfectly valid approach); I'm not as clever as that and for me it's also about role playing - I started by wanting to be a Khajiit Nightblade and I've worked with the options that this has given me, along with the 'personality' that my character has.

I'm sure that Nightblades aren't the easiest class to play, particularly with all the associated bugs, but they are good fun (I've not done any PVP yet, so I may change my assessment later!) and can be surprisingly potent.

Aspectofwinter · October 2014

I think part of it may have been due to my lack of understanding of combat at first, but I've found that with my Templar Magicka is much more of an issue over long fights wheras Nightblade seems to have the burst to take stuff down before they can hurt you too much.

But no matter which class you play, I've really gotten the feeling that you have to be somewhat hardcore on the action-game front to really do well at this game because things are so dependent on dodging and blocking at all the right times. Like I said before, boss enemies are actually surprisingly tough, even at the lower levels, until you figure out their patterns of attack.

This game is a lot like TERA in that regard.

Shunravi · October 2014

Some would say underrated, some would say overrated. All I care about is that someone is rating nightblades, and it's fun to argue about

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO · October 2014

Aspectofwinter wrote: »

I'm a new player, and so far I've only reached Level 10, so be advised that this may not be the best place to gauge performance, but anyway...

So far I've found Nightblade is a fast, non-stop, intense DPS machine that never lets up. It tops off ESO's class roster with a bang. From the jumping strike to the assassinate ability, the DPS output seems much higher than that of the Templar, which I have tried as well. And like mentioned before, the Siphoning and Shadow skill trees have several tools to help with survival. Between your self-healing and vanishing skills, the class is more well suited to solo play than a lot of people seem to think.

If I had to describe this class in one word it would be “relentless.” The average rogue opens with the strongest burst damage abilities out of stealth and then get progressively weaker. Nightblade starts out big and gets even bigger due to ESO's action-oriented combat system. Teleport Strike is a useful opener and is very handy to have against all the Mage enemies who move away from you in the Ebonheart starting zones. If healing is your thing stick to Templar as Nightblade feels like it's meant to be primarily a melee DPS class. I haven't had too much trouble with conserving Magicka thanks to timing my use of Assassin's Blade at around 25% health remaining, which seems to finish off the enemy every time.

However, most people on the forums seem to disagree, citing things like bad survivability and the marginally useful sneaking system as Nightblade's major downfalls. So far I have found the class to have the most trouble with bosses (although just in general I have actually found Templar harder to level)

Some players insist that Nightblade is one of those classes you simply have to learn to play well, but I've since read other posts that say the opposite; though the class held a lot of promise, the implementation falls quite a long way short of the high standards one typically associates with Rogue-type classes.

So what do you think? Are Nightblades really in need of a major buff, or is this just typical class QQ I've been reading?

I quess the NB's are okay in pvp, but it all comes down to the first few attacks.
But only if its played in the traditional way, WD/BOW and Leather armor.

Dont try to play it any way els, forget your fantasy as a ShadowKnight (1h/s)

And when it comes to pve, sure you will be okay on trash mobs, but anything funn, forget it!
.....................................................................

stumpy999 · October 2014

I was whacked by a NB using a 2H sword this morning, He 2 shotted me.

They come in all types and are nasty, not the toughest but plenty nasty.

guybrushtb16_ESO · October 2014

Aspectofwinter wrote: »

I'm a new player, and so far I've only reached Level 10, so be advised that this may not be the best place to gauge performance, but anyway...

So what do you think? Are Nightblades really in need of a major buff, or is this just typical class QQ I've been reading?

Well sorry, but comparing the classes performance at level 10 is as much judging a book by it's cover as it gets; it really doesn't bring anything to the discussion.

Back on topic, nightblades actually are ok as dps in groups, but their survivability in pvp really is lacking. Where the other classes get either heals or mitigation (or both), NBs get a stealth skill that is prone to bugging out and even if it works, it doesn't really help that much - at best you can pause the fight for a few seconds, but by itself that doesn't really give you an advantage most of the time.

Nestor · October 2014

If you equip your NB the right way (Medium Armor, DW or 1H/S with a Stick for AoE) it can be quite devastating. Especially in an initial burst damage, nothing comes close to the Sneak Crits you get from a NB. They do have issues with sustained DPS, but if your initial Burst damage is good enough, you can get through the longer battles.

GreyRanger · October 2014

I think level 10 is far too early to decide. I main is a NB (VR3) and I have a love hate relationship with him. I want to love him since it is the style I want to play, but level a NB is harder than any other class I have played and PVP is a challenge.

I think the biggest issue is that Shadow Cloak is so bugged it can make you nuts. It is frustrating to have it fail right when you need it most (PVP or PVE). If they fix that it would be a big step.

The second issue is that NB have fewer survivability skills than any other class (on demand heals, damage avoidance with meaningful magnitude, or shields). That might work out if Cloak was a robust way to survive, but it is not.

My final issue with the class is many of the top level abilities in the skill lines are just not really useful (Haste and Mark Target particularly, with several others nearly as useless). The Devs did mention addressing these skills in the guild summit so either hope springs eternal, or I am a sucker again.

When things go well with a NB it is great fun, but frequently it is just frustrating. I keep hanging around hoping they will straighten this out. We shall see whether I am a patient optimist or s sucker.

Aeratus · October 2014

Like you said, playing a NB is not about brute strength. NBs generally have very poor CC skills and rely on being tactical to succeed.

Actually, in the way the game has been in the past months, it's just the opposite.

The (pvp) players who play tactical stealth/stamina are those who have been complaining the most, and rightly so.

On the other hand, the brute-force magicka/1h-shield builds for Nightblades are as strong as any other class. I play one of such builds, and I have no trouble plowing through the enemy's front lines, against dks/templars/whatever.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

We are hard work, hard to master and need to be handled properly. Our best builds are the quick in and invisible out but often our tools can be unreliable which is our problem.

That said, we're not all doom and gloom and we're an interesting class.

Asgari · October 2014

NB is the most overpowered and underrated class in the game. It has been proven time and time again that many can not theory craft this game well enough to play as a NB.

Evergnar · October 2014

NB's are fantastic at single target DPS. However stealth plays a big part in that generally and when it breaks it becomes an issue. The class also becomes more difficult outside of that with things like AOE, CC when compared to other classes.

In general I probably enjoy my NB more than any other class because it makes you think more but at the same time when bugs, glitches, or lag occurs it completely breaks and I probably hate it more than any other class.

Anyways, @Aspectofwinter just have fun playing your NB and keep in mind that as you progress the things discussed here will start to play a bigger roll.

PBpsy · October 2014

NB is arguably the best caster class in the game for pve both in terms of single target and AOE. In 1.5 they will become even more powerful relatively to other classes caster builds since the Impulse nerf doesn't affect it much compared to DKs.

Xeres14 · October 2014

Well my NB is VR6 and I only do PvE (so far) so that's my frame of reference. A lot of how your class plays depends on your weapon choice. I use dual wield mostly.

My character is built to do single target DPS and he's very good at it - especially if I can get Ambush (Teleport Strike morph) from behind. A pack of 3 becomes 2 before the other 2 hit me. Also if the target is affected by Heated Blades (Sparks morph) it's going to die no matter how hard it hits.

Where my character gets into trouble is a large pack of mobs (6+). Like I said, he's single target and with Killer Blade, I *can * take a pack of 6 but I need to be careful that I don't spread the damage around - stay on one mob and kill it ASAP, move onto the next.

It's my favorite class to play.

starkerealm · October 2014

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

NB is the most overpowered and underrated class in the game. It has been proven time and time again that many can not theory craft this game well enough to play as a NB.

Yeah. Nightblades are hard to get right. And I'm saying this with respect to the players that don't understand them. If you've gotten a handle on how you need to build a Nightblade they are scary.

There are a few serious issues, cloak is the biggest one. It should be our damage mitigation, but it doesn't work reliably.

That said, the class does have weaknesses, particularly in AoE and damage mitigation. If Cloak was reworked to function as an actual escape option, then the class would, almost instantly, hit terrifying levels.

DenverRalphy · October 2014

I don't really get why so many people claim NBs don't have much in the way if CCs. They have snares, stuns, an AoE fear, disorients, ability to negate melee attacks, and more. The real problem is that many NB players are quick to avoid using hotbar slots for those skills in lieu of DPS skills. Personally I think NB players should play a sorc up to VR10 just to get used to the concept of sacrificing hotbar slots. And learn that DPS and CC skills can coincide.

Crescent · October 2014

someuser wrote: »

My fear is that once they fix stealth and Cloak, people are going to scream nerf.

Like you said, playing a NB is not about brute strength. NBs generally have very poor CC skills and rely on being tactical to succeed.

This evening I was doing a mission where you had to collect 4 quest items that would disappear once picked up (including from other players trying to do the same mission). This one guy thought it was cute to steal one of the quest items I was going after so, as we were running towards some ice troll I just hit my stealth at the last minute, the dude behind me gets the agro, and while he is busy doing that I cleaned house of all the items and then stealthed through all the rest of the trash mobs leaving him to wait for the quest items to respawn and fight his way out. Oh so satisfying.

Or you equip the best CC skill in the game for solo play, Volcanic Rune. It's available to all classes.

starkerealm · October 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't really get why so many people claim NBs don't have much in the way if CCs. They have snares, stuns, an AoE fear, disorients, ability to negate melee attacks, and more. The real problem is that many NB players are quick to avoid using hotbar slots for those skills in lieu of DPS skills. Personally I think NB players should play a sorc up to VR10 just to get used to the concept of sacrificing hotbar slots. And learn that DPS and CC skills can coincide.

Or get a werewolf to bite them. At least when a sorc starts sacrificing hotbar slots they get something out of it.

Aeratus · October 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't really get why so many people claim NBs don't have much in the way if CCs. They have snares, stuns, an AoE fear, disorients, ability to negate melee attacks, and more. The real problem is that many NB players are quick to avoid using hotbar slots for those skills in lieu of DPS skills. Personally I think NB players should play a sorc up to VR10 just to get used to the concept of sacrificing hotbar slots. And learn that DPS and CC skills can coincide.

I also play a sorc (v14) in pvp, and I don't agree with your comment. The problem with NB's CC is that it does not have a good CC skill that doubles up with something else.

Sorc has a great CC skill, which is streak, one of the most powerful skills in the game. This skill has four functions actually: (1) damage, (2) escape, (3) mobility, AND (4) stun. This would equivalent to having the NB's shadow cloak stun and damage nearby opponents upon activation. Next, Sorc has crystal fragments, which doubles as both a dps and a CC skill.

NB has crippling grasp, which also doubles as a dps skill, but the effect of the immobilization duration is so small that it is essentially insignificant (1.5 sec). The insignificance of the duration means that only magicka spell power builds will find crippling to be of any use, since the immobilization aspect alone is too poor. On the other hand, DK has a CC skill that immobilizes for 4 seconds and applies to multiple targets.

In the big picture, in the middle of the battle, Sorc is a much more tactical class than NB, due to its high mobility (streak/bolt escape) and tactical ultimates (negate). NB (magicka build) relies on brute force in powering its way through lines using sap essence, and pure dps/heal-over-time in long range fights. Stamina stealth builds are tactical in terms of getting into battle, but once in combat, they have no tactical ability unless they are able to get out of combat.

Akula · October 2014

In PVP I fear nightblades more than any other class...well NBs that actually use their CC that is.

DenverRalphy · October 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't really get why so many people claim NBs don't have much in the way if CCs. They have snares, stuns, an AoE fear, disorients, ability to negate melee attacks, and more. The real problem is that many NB players are quick to avoid using hotbar slots for those skills in lieu of DPS skills. Personally I think NB players should play a sorc up to VR10 just to get used to the concept of sacrificing hotbar slots. And learn that DPS and CC skills can coincide.

NB has crippling grasp, which also doubles as a dps skill, but the effect of the immobilization duration is so small that it is essentially insignificant (1.5 sec). The insignificance of the duration means that only magicka spell power builds will find crippling to be of any use, since the immobilization aspect alone is too poor. On the other hand, DK has a CC skill that immobilizes for 4 seconds and applies to multiple targets.

Crippling grasp is by far not the most effective NB CC ability. NBs also have a CC that completely immobilized enemies for several seconds (12 I think). No other class has that kind of a stun.

And my point was that playing a sorc would train players to become accustomed to sacrificing slots. Sorcs typically sacrifice DPS slots for increased crit (which NBs don't need to do), increased armor, etc..

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't really get why so many people claim NBs don't have much in the way if CCs. They have snares, stuns, an AoE fear, disorients, ability to negate melee attacks, and more. The real problem is that many NB players are quick to avoid using hotbar slots for those skills in lieu of DPS skills. Personally I think NB players should play a sorc up to VR10 just to get used to the concept of sacrificing hotbar slots. And learn that DPS and CC skills can coincide.

NB has crippling grasp, which also doubles as a dps skill, but the effect of the immobilization duration is so small that it is essentially insignificant (1.5 sec). The insignificance of the duration means that only magicka spell power builds will find crippling to be of any use, since the immobilization aspect alone is too poor. On the other hand, DK has a CC skill that immobilizes for 4 seconds and applies to multiple targets.

Crippling grasp is by far not the most effective NB CC ability. NBs also have a CC that completely immobilized enemies for several seconds (12 I think). No other class has that kind of a stun.

And my point was that playing a sorc would train players to become accustomed to sacrificing slots. Sorcs typically sacrifice DPS slots for increased crit (which NBs don't need to do), increased armor, etc..

LOL a cast bar skill that you get one use out with a tiny dot is not better than a spammable CC that can perma' root a player or mob and deals around 700 damage in a dot.

Gilvoth · October 2014

oh, you think nightblades are strong?
here, click this link and watch the video if you want proof and truth.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136279/hova-1vx-indisputable-proof-of-purple-alliance#latest
go ahead, click it and watch the video, i know you want to.