Why all the major skill changes are driven by pvper at the expense of others?

crislevin · October 2014

I'm just curious, does zos have solid reason for having to nerf this, nerf that, all because pvpers are not happy with their build?

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

Well, for starters, they aren't always driven by that.

But the primary reason is that PvP players are the ones who will notice imbalances in class abilities. If PvE players notice that things are dying too fast, they won't tend to report it, because it's harder to nail down the cause. Also, most people don't complain about things dying too fast.

Gythral · October 2014

'cos PvPers whine louder and longer than any other group of MMO 'players' :-P

Tapio75 · October 2014

Because PVP players seem like a lot that comes to complain about imbalance when they just need to learn to play. Those who know how to PVP or accept that they cant be as good as others rarely come to complain about people not knowing how to play, they just point it out in occasion..

Some of PVP lot seem also think that game mechanics are there for them alone and do not much care about PVE at all, they might think they are better somehow when they can kick arse in PVP and are just not happy when their own arse gets kicked ^^

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Because PVP players seem like a lot that comes to complain about imbalance when they just need to learn to play. Those who know how to PVP or accept that they cant be as good as others rarely come to complain about people not knowing how to play, they just point it out in occasion..

Some of PVP lot seem also think that game mechanics are there for them alone and do not much care about PVE at all, they might think they are better somehow when they can kick arse in PVP and are just not happy when their own arse gets kicked ^^

No one is claiming that PvP players are always right. I don't really PvP, but I can accept that people in that part of the game are going to notice imbalances long before I do, due to the imbalances having a more negative effect on their experience.

Lorkhan · October 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmhnh-Xnivs

Oolou · October 2014

If it is the case that changes tend to stem from feedback by those who primarily PvP, maybe this is because they provide more feedback than those who PvE? If you feel you're negatively affected by the changes ... well, you know what to do ...

MornaBaine · October 2014

I'm really tired of my vampire being made less and less fun to play in BOTH PvE and PvP because a certain set of screaming children continually set the forums ablaze.

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'm really tired of my vampire being made less and less fun to play in BOTH PvE and PvP because a certain set of screaming children continually set the forums ablaze.

Again, fun and unbalanced are different things. And this is a perfect illustration of why PvP players tend to keep overpowered abilities in check. PvE players often don't care if they're killing enemies faster than intended.

This isn't a single-player game. You can't have abilities that are so much stronger than other players' that they grant you an advantage simply due to your choice of class/race/supernatural-gift.

Darthryan · October 2014

Go pvp for an hour and if you don't see the imbalances then you must be a dk.

Seriously its so easy to see the imbalances. Sorry your pve stuff gets messed up but c'mon pve is too easy. Besides the nes arena but who wants to do that with the crappy rewards. 6 hrs for .....vr13 blue and a 2k repair bill? That's when I stopped pve. The others are just a race to see who finishes fastest. C'mon. The only challange now is pvp. Its fun, try it, you'll get hooked.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

crislevin wrote: »

I'm just curious, does zos have solid reason for having to nerf this, nerf that, all because pvpers are not happy with their build?

Yes, how awful it must be for you all to be unable to trivialize content anymore.

onlinegamer1 · October 2014

crislevin wrote: »

I'm just curious, does zos have solid reason for having to nerf this, nerf that, all because pvpers are not happy with their build?

Because PvP'ers matter, PvE'ers don't.

Oh, sorry, did you want a dishonest answer?

stevar · October 2014

Well, in PVE you don t really notice "imbalance" as you play against environment.
In PVP , you play against another player.
So it is easier to
1: Feel there is inbalance in the game when they are mainly in player capability to play their char.
2: Notice real inbalances, as if one player kills lots of skilled enemies without breaking a sweat well maybe worth looking into it.
3: See trends in leader's board and question maybe why in PVP some class are more represented in top of ranking.

In PVE, well any player can "win" against the environment, and some have complained when Zenimax reduce the environment difficulty so more players could "win".
In PVP this is not possible, you can t reduce the skills of top players so more average players can feel on top. So in PVP you need much more balance.

I am sure if
Molag Baal could complain to Zenimax, he would be quite unhappy that a stupid human is allowed to kick a deadra god'ass ;-)

Bramir · October 2014

Evil, evil pvpers reporting broken mechanics until they get fixed! Who do they think they are? Subscribers?

Threads like this make me long for open-world pvp...give us a day ZOS, and you won't hear any more complaints about nerfing vampires when they start wiping whole raid groups! I'll even get bitten for the occasion!

eliisra · October 2014

crislevin wrote: »

I'm just curious, does zos have solid reason for having to nerf this, nerf that, all because pvpers are not happy with their build?

Don't worry, it goes both ways. PvP gets messed up on a regular basis as a result of PvE changes, features and even players. Don't we love those PvE guilds flipping maps on low-pop campaigns for trial buffs

It's intertwined. You cant always know if a buff or nerf is targeting PvP, PvE or both. They also buff skills for PvE, resulting in stupidly strong builds or bursts in PvP. Players in Cyrodiil have to deal with it for weeks, before ZoS bothers to patch.

bedlom · October 2014

PvP is always the downfall of any good mmorpg in my experience.

Not that I don't enjoy it, just the constant crys for balance in the end ruin both pvp and pve.

naatokb14_ESO · October 2014

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

Bramir · October 2014

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

So you are saying everyone should be a vamp or vamp-hunter or gtfo? That sounds like a really stupid game.

Or are you saying that vampires should be stronger than everyone else because Bram Stoker told you so? You do realize that in the movies, books, video game lore, etc, it always takes a group to take down a vampire, right? And that this dynamic is incompatible with a MMO, right? Unless of course, the vampires are never players...

MornaBaine · October 2014

Bramir wrote: »

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

So you are saying everyone should be a vamp or vamp-hunter or gtfo? That sounds like a really stupid game.

Or are you saying that vampires should be stronger than everyone else because Bram Stoker told you so? You do realize that in the movies, books, video game lore, etc, it always takes a group to take down a vampire, right? And that this dynamic is incompatible with a MMO, right? Unless of course, the vampires are never players...

You obviously did not give this post a full reading. Either that or you are just here to argue for argument's sake. "Balance" is not that every player will have a 50-50 chance of beating every other player. "Balance" is achieved by understanding that certain builds will own other certain builds while being vulnerable themselves to yet another certain build. THAT balance is achieved NOT by nerfing the hated class du jure but by creating a flexible system wherein players understand that they are going to be specialists no matter what and then decide what they want their specialty to be and knock off the crying and just play the frakkin game.

Orchish · October 2014

mriguy1981 wrote: »

Go pvp for an hour and if you don't see the imbalances then you must be a dk.

Seriously its so easy to see the imbalances. Sorry your pve stuff gets messed up but c'mon pve is too easy. Besides the nes arena but who wants to do that with the crappy rewards. 6 hrs for .....vr13 blue and a 2k repair bill? That's when I stopped pve. The others are just a race to see who finishes fastest. C'mon. The only challange now is pvp. Its fun, try it, you'll get hooked.

Or a Templar, or a Nightblade, or a Sorc... every class has a powerful build. You only need to use google or come up against certain players to see this.

The reason changes are made because of PvPers is 1) they generally will be the ones to find the imbalances as they are going up against other classes with real players which unlike when fighting mobs, can quickly show certain abilities,armours etc to be superior or inferior.

2) Many PvP players will refuse to adapt when outplayed and thus come to the forums crying for either a class buff or class nerf or both.

MorHawk · October 2014

I really don't know why this is even a debate, it's really painfully obvious logic. OP abilities in PvE are welcomed, they make the content easier. Honestly, who is going to submit feedback that their 'uber nuke' is too uber? PvPers are obviously going to complain more, because it's a human player on the receiving end. This is the biggest given ever, and the fact that it's actually deemed as being 'up for debate' by anyone is downright terrifying.

Besides, does anyone want to argue that the snipe buff was done with PvP in mind? It's suggested that the change will decrease buff, but I think it's fairly unambiguous that it was done to boost sustained PvE damage for trials and stuff.

MornaBaine · October 2014

bedlom wrote: »

PvP is always the downfall of any good mmorpg in my experience.

Not that I don't enjoy it, just the constant crys for balance in the end ruin both pvp and pve.

QFT. I've seen it happen in just about every MMO out there. I love the IDEA of PvP but the actual experience of it has always been a letdown. I think this is because it primarily attracts the very worst kinds of people. I long for RP PvP wherein groups "go to war" over RP reasons/objectives and create builds consistent with who their characters are rather than just hitting teh interwebs to identify the most "uber" build so they can "own." Alas, I have come to the conclusion that this game will never exist. I had SOME small hope for it when ZoS promised us an RP server/instance choice but since they reneged on that and totally frakked us over I have pretty much completely given up on PvP...or ever having a game that takes RP even remotely into consideration.

Bramir · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

So you are saying everyone should be a vamp or vamp-hunter or gtfo? That sounds like a really stupid game.

Or are you saying that vampires should be stronger than everyone else because Bram Stoker told you so? You do realize that in the movies, books, video game lore, etc, it always takes a group to take down a vampire, right? And that this dynamic is incompatible with a MMO, right? Unless of course, the vampires are never players...

You obviously did not give this post a full reading. Either that or you are just here to argue for argument's sake. "Balance" is not that every player will have a 50-50 chance of beating every other player. "Balance" is achieved by understanding that certain builds will own other certain builds while being vulnerable themselves to yet another certain build. THAT balance is achieved NOT by nerfing the hated class du jure but by creating a flexible system wherein players understand that they are going to be specialists no matter what and then decide what they want their specialty to be and knock off the crying and just play the frakkin game.

So, we should all spec to fight vamps so that we are weaker against other builds, because vampires are more important than anything else in this game?

And I will ask it again since noone wants to answer, "Do you think the top ranked pvpers are mostly vampires because they want to sparkle, or because they see a major advantage in being a vampire?"

MornaBaine · October 2014

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

So you are saying everyone should be a vamp or vamp-hunter or gtfo? That sounds like a really stupid game.

Or are you saying that vampires should be stronger than everyone else because Bram Stoker told you so? You do realize that in the movies, books, video game lore, etc, it always takes a group to take down a vampire, right? And that this dynamic is incompatible with a MMO, right? Unless of course, the vampires are never players...

You obviously did not give this post a full reading. Either that or you are just here to argue for argument's sake. "Balance" is not that every player will have a 50-50 chance of beating every other player. "Balance" is achieved by understanding that certain builds will own other certain builds while being vulnerable themselves to yet another certain build. THAT balance is achieved NOT by nerfing the hated class du jure but by creating a flexible system wherein players understand that they are going to be specialists no matter what and then decide what they want their specialty to be and knock off the crying and just play the frakkin game.

So, we should all spec to fight vamps so that we are weaker against other builds, because vampires are more important than anything else in this game?

And I will ask it again since noone wants to answer, "Do you think the top ranked pvpers are mostly vampires because they want to sparkle, or because they see a major advantage in being a vampire?"

No, you should however expect that a significant percentage of players are going to do just that. And enough of them should do it so that vamps get ashed on the regular...to the point that less people will choose to play them. That is the organic and logical solution. And there are already players who do this...as my vampire can attest. The ONLY "nerf" still needed for vampires is for ZoS to make each of the 4 stages actually be meaningful. Stage 4 should not be easy mode.

Shunravi · October 2014

MorHawk wrote: »

OP abilities in PvE are welcomed, they make the content easier.

Of course they are. Heck, some are even designed that way. Look at negate magic as a prime example. Against players it cancels spells, but it turns npcs into inanimate objects with heathbars. Yea, that's totally not op.... But it is the way the skill is designed.

In PvP, your targets have (or at least should have) the intelligence to not stand in the stupid. In PvE, the ai will bring your enemies right to you without regard to the fact that you have ultimates down, or any other threat. So that's one more strike of op against npcs, and it counts for all abilities.

Don't stand in the stupid (even if it can chase you)

Bramir · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

The ONLY 'imbalances' any game company should be dealing with are code/bug exploits. The infamous never-ending bat swarm that existed early on, for example. Another example that seems to be extant today is the AOE heal spam to build ultimate. Yeah folks...it's an EXPLOIT.

The ridiculous attempt to balance each class against each other class is what RUINS MMOs.

In my opinion, the classes are balanced enough. Or were before the macro-spamming 13 year old 'pwnzr uz' were given priority in ZOS developer code adjustment with incessant whining.

Also, in my opinion, single characters (with the notable exception of Templars) who aren't specialized as monster hunters (the specific Fighter's Guild and Undaunted skills) SHOULD be getting their rear-ends kicked by single vampires/werewolves. Warriors who aren't specialized to fight mages SHOULD be getting their rears handed to them by destructionist mages. Mages who are specialized as damage dealers SHOULD be wiped out by weapons DPS from warriors, etc and heavy damage by weapon, etc., etc., etc.

My point is....trying to micro-manage the class/race/special skills is going to destroy this game by making it so there is only ONE viable skill set per class/race/special and only one viable gear set per class.

This is a fantasy genre. Powerful mages and supernatural creatures are scary in the stories for REASONS. They should be just as scary in PvP/PvE in any fantasy game. And the specific nemesis for a supernatural or a mage (a Templar, monster hunter, or mage hunter spec) SHOULD be just as scary to a vampire, werewolf or mage.

Other than that. Leave the fracking combat and skills system ALONE!!!

So you are saying everyone should be a vamp or vamp-hunter or gtfo? That sounds like a really stupid game.

Or are you saying that vampires should be stronger than everyone else because Bram Stoker told you so? You do realize that in the movies, books, video game lore, etc, it always takes a group to take down a vampire, right? And that this dynamic is incompatible with a MMO, right? Unless of course, the vampires are never players...

You obviously did not give this post a full reading. Either that or you are just here to argue for argument's sake. "Balance" is not that every player will have a 50-50 chance of beating every other player. "Balance" is achieved by understanding that certain builds will own other certain builds while being vulnerable themselves to yet another certain build. THAT balance is achieved NOT by nerfing the hated class du jure but by creating a flexible system wherein players understand that they are going to be specialists no matter what and then decide what they want their specialty to be and knock off the crying and just play the frakkin game.

So, we should all spec to fight vamps so that we are weaker against other builds, because vampires are more important than anything else in this game?

And I will ask it again since noone wants to answer, "Do you think the top ranked pvpers are mostly vampires because they want to sparkle, or because they see a major advantage in being a vampire?"

No, you should however expect that a significant percentage of players are going to do just that. And enough of them should do it so that vamps get ashed on the regular...to the point that less people will choose to play them. That is the organic and logical solution. And there are already players who do this...as my vampire can attest. The ONLY "nerf" still needed for vampires is for ZoS to make each of the 4 stages actually be meaningful. Stage 4 should not be easy mode.

And thus the healing nerf everyone is whining about...so that they can actually be 'ashed' by people using fighters guild skills. Right now, if they are hitting a bunch of people with devouring swarm, you will not kill them without dropping a negate on them...and that ultimate costs significantly more than batswarm. As much fun as this is for my sorcerer, I also usually get out of the bats in time and get a full view of how quickly my teammates health bars go down from this one player, who really did nothing special to become this strong, except realize that if they used pulsar at the same time they will do double the damage of most players. Lag out for two seconds? Dead. PC can't render the bats fast enough? Dead. No other aoe skill is anywhere close to this devastating. Even dawnbreaker (when you actually manage to hit someone with its tiny area) is not this devastating against its intended targets.

So now, vamps can still kill people just as fast, but they can't expect to stay alive while doing it...like what would happen to the rest of us if we jumped into the middle of an enemy raid in a dps build. Along with the reduction to ultimate generation, this ultimate might actually be balanced with the rest of them after the nerfs.

MorHawk · October 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

OP abilities in PvE are welcomed, they make the content easier.

Of course they are. Heck, some are even designed that way. Look at negate magic as a prime example. Against players it cancels spells, but it turns npcs into inanimate objects with heathbars. Yea, that's totally not op.... But it is the way the skill is designed.

In PvP, your targets have (or at least should have) the intelligence to not stand in the stupid. In PvE, the ai will bring your enemies right to you without regard to the fact that you have ultimates down, or any other threat. So that's one more strike of op against npcs, and it counts for all abilities.

Don't stand in the stupid (even if it can chase you)

That's mostly an AI issue, and not really relevant to the subject at hand.

Shunravi · October 2014

MorHawk wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

OP abilities in PvE are welcomed, they make the content easier.

Of course they are. Heck, some are even designed that way. Look at negate magic as a prime example. Against players it cancels spells, but it turns npcs into inanimate objects with heathbars. Yea, that's totally not op.... But it is the way the skill is designed.

In PvP, your targets have (or at least should have) the intelligence to not stand in the stupid. In PvE, the ai will bring your enemies right to you without regard to the fact that you have ultimates down, or any other threat. So that's one more strike of op against npcs, and it counts for all abilities.

Don't stand in the stupid (even if it can chase you)

That's mostly an AI issue, and not really relevant to the subject at hand.

Ofc it's not. I'm arguing against your 'npcs can't yell OP' argument. Which is downright hilarious btw...

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

While I consider myself an all around gamer and play both PVP and PVE content with the same satisfaction... I will admit PVPers as a whole are whiney as can be in many games including this. There are those that are good or take the time to learn and become good, then there are those that play it casually without crying all the time... then you have large amounts of QQers who take to the forums after anything dare pose a challenge to them. LOL It's really sad and pathetic to be quite honest.

The only thing that should be nerfed, are nerfs. Sure there have been a few justified ones, but so many are just knee-jerk reactions instead of proper testing to the real cause of why the underlying issue is at hand.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

bedlom wrote: »

PvP is always the downfall of any good mmorpg in my experience.

Not that I don't enjoy it, just the constant crys for balance in the end ruin both pvp and pve.

MornaBaine wrote: »

QFT. I've seen it happen in just about every MMO out there.

*rubs brow* the funny part is that you really do believe yourselves.

You wanna know what I'VE seen in every MMO out there?

Elitist PVEers refusing to take players not playing the FotM DPS/tank/heal class. Elitist PVEers refusing to take players in groups because they are not using the FotM build or ability. Elitist PVEers trivializing content with OP abilities that get spotted by the developers metrics systems and then adjusted crying that PVPers got them nerfed.

If you turned PVE into a competition to see who scores the most points in groups, you'd see just as many buff and nerf threads, there is only one difference between PVP and PVE balance and it's that mobs don't come onto forums and whine when abilities are too powerful.

Tankqull · October 2014

Gythral wrote: »

'cos PvPers whine louder and longer than any other group of MMO 'players' :-P

compared to mobs not wining at all thats true.

compered to pvers thats not the case - who are the loudest "cry babies" in this forums? pve templars wanting more dmg to their dps builds as the y underperform, and nbs crying for more or less no reason - both are not directly corrolated to pvp...

on another side - a pve hero will never ever tell any dev a skill like fragmented shield is horribly overperforming by hitting 6 targets with every of its 6 applications for a total of up to 36x of dmg dealt with one skilluse.
mobs remain silent.
pvpers instagibbed by a 6 man group start to realize the issue and correspond it to the devs and are blamed for it because the pve heros want their brutally overpowered skills back... seems legit bloody pvpers :P