~+~ Why are you limiting Undaunted Enclaves and Pledges? ~+~

Emperor · October 2014

First off, here is a link to the 1.5 patch notes:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135688/pts-patch-notes-v1-5/p1

There might be an explanation for this and if there is I would love to hear it. The "Undaunted Enclaves and Pledges" sound awesome. It's great to see Zenimax expanding on the Undaunted and give people a reason to do dungeons more than once, but why limit it?

"Note: Each type of pledge may be performed every 20 hours."

"There are two types of Pledges available which will send you into veteran and non-veteran dungeons respectively."

Putting limits on people trying to actually play content to gain money/experience leads them to grind grind grind. Not saying grinding is a bad thing, it's in almost every game, but personally I would rather be able to play the game's content for a good experience/gold rate per hour.

This update and the level scaling update could do wonderful things for grouping because there would be a lot of people wanting to do dungeons all day, but instead it will get people to do the dungeon runs they are "allowed to do" and then move on to grinding/something else.

Moderator edit: Adjusted the title to foster a more focused, constructive conversation.

EDIT 10-15-14:
In reply to your posts, here is my suggestion:

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

Drazhar14 · October 2014

LOL they are called daily quests for a reason. Assuming each dungeon takes 1 hour, that is 2 hours of things to do every evening after work. The limit is also necessary to keep chest rewards more rare and valuable. I'd rather they continue to add daily things to do to create more variety in activities compared to grinding the same thing over and over.

DDuke · October 2014

It'd be better if there were no limits & people grinded all the new sets in 2 days and then came back to forums to complain there's no reason to do the dungeons anymore, right?

...

Valen_Byte · October 2014

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

Holycannoli · October 2014

20 hours = daily quest.

Now I'm waiting for them to change hirelings and other 24 timers to 20 hours.

Aenra · October 2014

don't make fun of him, maybe he is new to MMOs, maybe he is just stating what (let us be honest) is a reasonable enquiry

just because some have got used to this cheap, cheap way of forcing barriers to peoples' playstyle and hours (ie let them need more days, ie let that sub feel necessary), doesn't mean it is all of a sudden a logical and well implemented solution

and may i remind you, we are at a time when finally most companies are beginning to shy away from this practice. Not actually working towards implementing more of them..yeah?

dgoss11b14_ESO · October 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

20 hours = daily quest.

OMFG, the earth is spinning faster now?!?

ers101284b14_ESO · October 2014

Why? Because people begged for dailies.

Gilvoth · October 2014

i sure hope i can get that dwemer armor that comes with the undaunted reward we saw in the eso update.

Origin · October 2014

well, you should use the time wasted here on the forum for playing the game.

Cazic · October 2014

Daily quests are a great idea. The limitation prevents grinding the same thing over and over, and it actually makes sense with the Lore which is a nice touch. No one's keeping you from playing the game but yourself. This "complaint" seems really empty, like you're just whining rather than actually offering constructive feedback.

PS, exaggerating your thread title and adding little symbols to make it stand out is a really great way to forfeit your credibility.. really lame.

ZOS_TristanK · October 2014

Hey, folks. We're glad to read all of your feedback about the soon-to-be Undaunted Enclaves and Pledges, but remember to keep that feedback focused, civil, and constructive. To help facilitate a more constructive conversation about the points @Emperor brought to the table, we have adjusted the thread title. Thanks for your feedback!

Merlin13KAGL · October 2014

Emperor wrote: »

First off, here is a link to the 1.5 patch notes:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135688/pts-patch-notes-v1-5/p1

There might be an explanation for this and if there is I would love to hear it. The "Undaunted Enclaves and Pledges" sound awesome. It's great to see Zenimax expanding on the Undaunted and give people a reason to do dungeons more than once, but why limit it?

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

@Emporer , Group Dungeons still give phenomenal XP's/VP's, so they're worth repeating as is.

They seem mediocre, at first glance, to be honest. There is no additional requirement (it's still the same dungeon), you just get bonus reward for completing it and possibly some set gear.

I'd rather see additional tasks - tie them to the public dungeons, but with harder/different bosses, etc. Hard mode for those that is different than that for everyone not Undaunted.

Scale it to your Undaunted level...something?

As it stands, it's simply repeating a specific dungeon, which dungeoneers are doing anyway already. The added bonus is nice, but it's not all that different.

What I would like to see is the ability to make your Undaunted skills line improve my completing these. Undaunted Skill Points that make the active skills better (or at least good.) or unlocks new actives/passives.

I have doubts that people will change up their gear based on what they find. The skills are way underpowered for what they should be and what is required to earn them.

6 seconds for Bone Shield? Necrotic and Webs are almost useless without the Synergy and not great with. Altar needs some serious love, too.

ex2k, I plan on checking this option out when I get home. The 'easy' daily I received was non-vet Wayrest, so I will see if switching to non-Vet mode in group finder and entering truly gives the non-vet version.

If so, should be able to solo it. If not, you are correct - no such thing as a non-vet version.

I'm also interested to see if the standard dungeons Scale or just the group Dungeons.

Leijona · October 2014

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

OT: But storywise I can still do the non-vet dungeons, even if they are V13 for me, right? Or can I really not enter them?

pppontus · October 2014

Leijona wrote: »

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

OT: But storywise I can still do the non-vet dungeons, even if they are V13 for me, right? Or can I really not enter them?

You can do them and they as well will be scaled up to your level (including veteran ranks, up to V12) as I understand it and this was stated quite clearly in both the Patch Notes and the last ESO live video. That should give us a lot more dungeons to choose from.

Leijona · October 2014

Thanks, that is how I understood it, too. I was just confused by that comment

Emperor · October 2014

Hi All,

To those that kept civil, thank you for your explanations. As I said in the very beginning of my post, "there might be an explanation for this". Many of you have pointed out the reason and for that I am thankful.

However, that still doesn't change my opinion on "daily activities". I do see the point of limiting the amount of times you can do the activity to increase the reward, but I don't think EVERYTHING about the update should be limited.

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

pppontus · October 2014

Emperor wrote: »

Hi All,

To those that kept civil, thank you for your explanations. As I said in the very beginning of my post, "there might be an explanation for this". Many of you have pointed out the reason and for that I am thankful.

However, that still doesn't change my opinion on "daily activities". I do see the point of limiting the amount of times you can do the activity to increase the reward, but I don't think EVERYTHING about the update should be limited.

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

I kinda get your point, but I think this is also a way to balance things out between those who can play a lot vs. those who can't (me incl.). It's actually really nice for me that there are certain rewards that I can attain just as easily as those who can play 10 hours a day.

Weekly trial rewards was something I loved when I found out about it, I'm a pretty good player (and play with good players) even though I have limited time, so I can always squeeze in those 1-2 trial runs to get a good time and be rewarded with something cool without necessarily having to play every day.

Dungeon scaling will still give incentives to redo them, as for example the boss helmets are drops from the final boss. You can do that over and over. Plus the fact that scaled mobs will give you other set drops (the usual dungeon sets) at your level (or VR12 if your higher).

It seems pretty fair to me, certain rewards can only be gotten once a day, others can be farmed if you're so inclined.

Edit: I'm not opposed to your idea of Undaunted Points either, although I would want these to be other rewards than from the dailies (because of reasons above).

DDuke · October 2014

Emperor wrote: »

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

You mean like similar to faction reputation from some other games?

I actually very much like this idea, faction reputation(s) would give a lot more depth to the game

Here are some examples how other games do them:

[Morrowind]: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions
[Fallout:
New Vegas]:http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_reputations
[World of Warcraft]: http://www.wowwiki.com/Reputation

Emperor · October 2014

pppontus wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Hi All,

To those that kept civil, thank you for your explanations. As I said in the very beginning of my post, "there might be an explanation for this". Many of you have pointed out the reason and for that I am thankful.

However, that still doesn't change my opinion on "daily activities". I do see the point of limiting the amount of times you can do the activity to increase the reward, but I don't think EVERYTHING about the update should be limited.

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

I kinda get your point, but I think this is also a way to balance things out between those who can play a lot vs. those who can't (me incl.). It's actually really nice for me that there are certain rewards that I can attain just as easily as those who can play 10 hours a day.

Weekly trial rewards was something I loved when I found out about it, I'm a pretty good player (and play with good players) even though I have limited time, so I can always squeeze in those 1-2 trial runs to get a good time and be rewarded with something cool without necessarily having to play every day.

Dungeon scaling will still give incentives to redo them, as for example the boss helmets are drops from the final boss. You can do that over and over. Plus the fact that scaled mobs will give you other set drops (the usual dungeon sets) at your level (or VR12 if your higher).

It seems pretty fair to me, certain rewards can only be gotten once a day, others can be farmed if you're so inclined.

Edit: I'm not opposed to your idea of Undaunted Points either, although I would want these to be other rewards than from the dailies (because of reasons above).

I see your point about trying to even the playing field between players that play a lot and players that can only afford a couple hours of their day. Just so you know, I am the latter. I only play a couple hours a day and that's just if I have time to log on.

Here's the thing though. Why have that mind set? I fully expect someone that plays the game 5 times longer than me to get stuff 5 times faster than me. I don't expect us to be even.

Thank you for agreeing with my Undaunted points idea. I believe that is the best way to go at it. That way there is something in it for everyone to be happy.

Emperor · October 2014

DDuke wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

I suggest limiting the chance at awesome rewards to once a day (or whatever) and then giving us another reason to continue doing to dungeons for undaunted. Maybe a more repeatable quest version that gives us points towards some other reward. They could give us undaunted points like they give us alliance points and we could use the undaunted points to buy the new undaunted equipment just in case we are extremely unlucky with the daily chests.

You mean like similar to faction reputation from some other games?

I actually very much like this idea, faction reputation(s) would give a lot more depth to the game

Here are some examples how other games do them:

[Morrowind]: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions
[Fallout:
New Vegas]:http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_reputations
[World of Warcraft]: http://www.wowwiki.com/Reputation

Yes, this could definitely open up a whole new realistic feeling to the game. They could start with undaunted faction points and move on to the other guilds. It would add such a great feeling that this game is missing--IT WOULD MEAN MY CHOICES ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE. ***Gasp!!***

They could easily expand on this idea to make NPCs react differenctly towards players that are in factions the NPC's faction doesn't like (fighters guild and vampire for example). That's a whole thread by itself to expand upon, but I believe I saw someone else post a thread about this already so I won't make it again.

linus2503 · October 2014

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

Inexact.
There are "Vet dungeons version", with new mechanics, new bosses, new areas
And there are "Regular dungeons" scaled to your level (even Vet level) that are still "regular" even if the mobs are veteran level

I was on the PTS as a Vet character

I had access to every "regular dungeon" in the LFG system (16 of them - with mobs scaled to Vet level if leader is Vet, but still "regular")
And access to all "veteran dungeons" that have a veteran version (about 6 or 7 iirc)

KenjiJU · October 2014

Well, one of the more important things is that it should give the same quest to everyone on that day, meaning everyone will be looking to do the same dungeon on one day, rather than looking for all different ones. That will make finding a group pretty easy.

Melian · October 2014

Dailies suck - they make you feel obligated to play when you don't necessarily have the time or feel like it, and remove the point of playing when you do.
I mean, most people have more time to play on the weekends, you know? Why can't I keep up-to-date by playing a lot when I have the time, instead of having the game basically force a schedule on me? Makes it feel like work.

It's one of the main reasons I quit WoW - too many dailies in MoP.

Holycannoli · October 2014

dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

20 hours = daily quest.

OMFG, the earth is spinning faster now?!?

It actually is. The massive earthquake in the pacific a few years ago sucked up some of the earth's surface and it's spinning faster now.

KenjiJU wrote: »

Well, one of the more important things is that it should give the same quest to everyone on that day, meaning everyone will be looking to do the same dungeon on one day, rather than looking for all different ones. That will make finding a group pretty easy.

I think that's a great idea.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

? I thought it went up to the party leader level.

Which means if the leader is low lvl even if the others are vet it would be a non vet dungeon...

It scales to the highest level in the party?

bosmern_ESO · October 2014

Because its called a Daily? Have you ever played a MMO that has Dailies?

They usually have cool/exotic rewards that takes a long time to get, meaning its a massive grind. Which discourages a lot of people, but makes those people who sit down and grind and put up with it to get cool items, that they can show off, which the general public doesn't have.

I love that they are putting extremely rare undaunted Helmet and shoulders, I am going to strive to get them and when I do, I'm going to get an amazing sense of accomplishment and a lot of praise, which I love.

linus2503 · October 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

? I thought it went up to the party leader level.

Which means if the leader is low lvl even if the others are vet it would be a non vet dungeon...

It scales to the highest level in the party?

It scales to the party leader`s level
The fact that the leader is veteran level is not enough to transform a dungeon into it`s "veteran version" (with more mechanics, more bosses, new areas etc)
From 1,5+, you can effectively get a regular-version-dungeon with veteran-level mobs

Emperor · October 2014

linus2503 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

ez2k.stoobzzub17_ESO wrote: »

On a side note, the non-vet and vet options aren't exactly as they seen. At least not if your character is a vet. The dungeon will scale to your lvl. So if you are a vet, there is no non-vet option.

? I thought it went up to the party leader level.

Which means if the leader is low lvl even if the others are vet it would be a non vet dungeon...

It scales to the highest level in the party?

It scales to the party leader`s level
The fact that the leader is veteran level is not enough to transform a dungeon into it`s "veteran version" (with more mechanics, more bosses, new areas etc)
From 1,5+, you can effectively get a regular-version-dungeon with veteran-level mobs

Thanks for the info on that

Ommamar · October 2014

I guess I have misunderstood how the undaunted line advances as I have only played the "group" dungeons in a couple zones then only once for myself and maybe to help someone else. But I thought that the line was advanced by doing these dungeons?

Emperor · October 2014

Ommamar wrote: »

I guess I have misunderstood how the undaunted line advances as I have only played the "group" dungeons in a couple zones then only once for myself and maybe to help someone else. But I thought that the line was advanced by doing these dungeons?

It is, but we are talking about expanding on that and improving the upcoming update that Zenimax is introducing.