More Shameless and Needless Pandering by ZOS to Groups - Dungeon and Delve Scaling

LonePirate · October 2014

In Update 5, group dungeons and solo/duo delves will now scale to your current level, up to VR12.

At first, this sounds great, right? Now take a moment to ask yourself, why don't they scale up to VR14 which is the max/current level for most players?

In my opinion, the scaling was halted at VR12 in order to keep the VR14 content limited to group players. The only VR14 content is Veteran Dragonstar Arena, the Sanctum Ophidia trial and the Veteran City of Ash dungeon (new in 1.5). Are you a solo/duo player who would like to tackle any of the roughly 100 solo/duo delves (outside of Cyrodiil) at max level? Tough! Would you like to be able to obtain VR14 gear from these delves to match your level? Not going to happen.

Don't be fooled by this change. It may seem like ZOS is throwing a bone to solo/duo players with this change; but it is nothing more than an insulting slap in the face. If you want to play max level content in this game, ZOS continues to force people to group up while stealing the sub fees from its unquestionably massive solo/duo player base.

babylon · October 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

In Update 5, group dungeons and solo/duo delves will now scale to your current level, up to VR12.

At first, this sounds great, right? Now take a moment to ask yourself, why don't they scale up to VR14 which is the max/current level for most players?

In my opinion, the scaling was halted at VR12 in order to keep the VR14 content limited to group players. The only VR14 content is Veteran Dragonstar Arena, the Sanctum Ophidia trial and the Veteran City of Ash dungeon (new in 1.5). Are you a solo/duo player who would like to tackle any of the roughly 100 solo/duo delves (outside of Cyrodiil) at max level? Tough! Would you like to be able to obtain VR14 gear from these delves to match your level? Not going to happen.

Don't be fooled by this change. It may seem like ZOS is throwing a bone to solo/duo players with this change; but it is nothing more than an insulting slap in the face. If you want to play max level content in this game, ZOS continues to force people to group up while stealing the sub fees from its unquestionably massive solo/duo player base.

They can only do it for so long, before the non-groupers leave.

Only reason they're getting away with it still is tons of people aren't in the max level range yet.

Have to say I am getting very disappointed with this attitude (this attitude being pro group players only, and solo/duo players can suck it) in game devs.

Martinus72 · October 2014

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

Gilvoth · October 2014

well that suk's, i love to solo and ever since dungeon and dragons all i have ever done is solo in mmo's now, because they almost allways offer "solo" this dungeon click to solo type play when entering the caves.
i prefer solo and i am v14 so for me this is bad news.

babylon · October 2014

Martinus72 wrote: »

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

It's actually an example of reading between the lines and seeing (at least) repercussions and (at most) intentions behind things.

Jacques Berge · October 2014

The game is an MMO... All MMOs do this. What most MMOs don't do is allow players to easily craft top tier gear that is competitive with the drops in the trials. I understand your frustration, but once again, this is a MMO.

Welka · October 2014

It's a conspiracy against solo players. Beware! I'm calling for a revolution!

Martinus72 · October 2014

Nope it's an effort to see something negative in positive change but there are few in these forums who are specialised to see everything in black colours.
It's straight old as MMO's demand to get same shiny gear walking through solo delves as gear which demand working in groups to get it.
It's not gonna happen and thank god for that.

Merlin13KAGL · October 2014

So you can get credit for killing VR12 stuff, vice VR14 stuff? Seriously?

What's the big issue here?

You can still enter a group instance as a single player, and 2 VR levels on mobs is not going to be huge differences in VP's.

So the only real 'limit' that you'll see is that the drops will be VR12!?

Upper Craglorn has VR13+ critters...and a group of 2 (duo) is still a group...

Emperor · October 2014

Martinus72 wrote: »

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

Well.. to be honest it doesn't make any sense that they would stop at VR12 instead of VR14. They most likely mean for it to be for up to max level, but they didn't update the number since the max level increased from VR12 to VR14.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

heh , OP you should have already accepted that for now zen only focus is group players and all of these changes have them in mind first.

if you are not willing to wait months for an actual increase in solo content , then do what so many others already started to do and leave the game till that happen.

MikeBob · October 2014

Emperor wrote: »

Martinus72 wrote: »

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

Well.. to be honest it doesn't make any sense that they would stop at VR12 instead of VR14. They most likely mean for it to be for up to max level, but they didn't update the number since the max level increased from VR12 to VR14.

(Heh - wouldn't be funny if there was all this hand-wringing over a typo?)

I'm in favor of waiting until I can see/experience something for myself before mustering the resources to criticize or decry its implementation.

Getting blustery and cynical about a thing before it actually comes into being - that uses up too much of my mental/emotional energy.

I guess I'm just a 'wait and see' kinda guy.

starkerealm · October 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

At first, this sounds great, right? Now take a moment to ask yourself, why don't they scale up to VR14 which is the max/current level for most players?

It's possible that this has some implication in the Champion system which we're not privy to.

jeevin · October 2014

I see these changes more as encouraged grouping or at least making grouping content more accessible. Zos can obviously see the data that very few players are actually doing this content and are at least trying to address one of the key issues currently. Accessibility.

crislevin · October 2014

Would solo players be encouraged to "group" or "leave"?

There are many new game coming out.... make the whole thing extremely unattractive to solo players will not encourage them to group.....

Aenra · October 2014

they have made a lot of changes, in light of nothing but the feedback we ourselves have given.
i think this is a healthy compromise (in their minds) between doing what they promised, allowing you to group through new and old stuff (and keeping it relative), while keeping the 'top' competitive play..well, competitive

i think it's alright actually. And i am a solo player. Could it have been better? Yeah, but that's hardly the reason to see it as negative
let's be realistic. With the current conceptualisation of "50+" gameplay, there has to be some tangible distinction, if only to follow their thinking. These go together. If the thinking itself is one you find in room of improvement..

/new thread. This is ok

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · October 2014

Martinus72 wrote: »

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

It's easy to find something to moan about if you're one of the large segment of players for whom yet again there's no content for your particular play preference, instead as the OP points out, 1.5 is yet more pandering to the elitist dungeon dwellers.

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

I don't know of a single MMO that doesn't encourage group play in the endgame. More importantly, there is no MMO which allows you to get the best endgame gear through solo play (except crafting, of course).

Why is this dead horse still being tortured?

Xeres14 · October 2014

Getting to max level shouldn't require a group. Now I'm not at max level yet so I don't know if you need a group to get to VR14 but there should be quests that will get you there.

Getting the absolute best gear in the game should require a group. The tougher the encounter the better the reward,

Yeah, yeah I know. Groundbreaking stuff here.

theyancey · October 2014

I think that the group PvP guild must have some nekkid pics of some devs. No other reason explains the solo PvE genocide since launch. LOL

Tavore1138 · October 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I don't know of a single MMO that doesn't encourage group play in the endgame. More importantly, there is no MMO which allows you to get the best endgame gear through solo play (except crafting, of course).

Why is this dead horse still being tortured?

Because due to the nature of the player base lots of people enjoy playing solo in a shared world.

Just because other MMOs follow the same format does not mean this one has to do the same, that type of view is very unprogressive.

Holycannoli · October 2014

No it doesn't sound great. Forced solo instance scaling is not what I want, at all. Optional yes, forced no. If I want to wait to do a solo dungeon until I'm a few levels higher that's my choice. Plus I'm a fan of areas being level-specific, like virtually every other MMO and RPG in existence. You have your newbie zones, your low level zones, mid level, high level, end game. They don't scale to the player, rather the player leaves and heads to higher level zones. That includes dungeons. You don't do low level dungeons as a high level and expect the mobs to scale to you.

Forcing level scaling will make me seriously reconsider my commitment to this game. I'm a soloer, like I suspect many ESO players are. I grew out of forced-grouping MMOs very long ago, and part of my soloing strategy is to slightly out-level the areas I'm in, enough that they're easier to do solo but not enough to impact loot. I purposely wait a few levels to do dungeons.

lordspyder · October 2014

Xeres14 wrote: »

Getting to max level shouldn't require a group. Now I'm not at max level yet so I don't know if you need a group to get to VR14 but there should be quests that will get you there.

Getting the absolute best gear in the game should require a group. The tougher the encounter the better the reward,

Yeah, yeah I know. Groundbreaking stuff here.

But they changed it to XP instead of VP and dramatically lowered the amount you need to level veteran ranks so with that and the new scaling Dungeons, there is no need to group to hit max level...

zhevon · October 2014

What the should do is add the ability to scale for a solo experience.

Nihil · October 2014

Emperor wrote: »

Martinus72 wrote: »

Perfect example how to find something to moan about in positive change...

Well.. to be honest it doesn't make any sense that they would stop at VR12 instead of VR14. They most likely mean for it to be for up to max level, but they didn't update the number since the max level increased from VR12 to VR14.

They actually covered this in the ESO live footage, they wanted the new dungeon to be the hardest dungeon (currently), so they only scaled the other ones up to VR 12 max.