Scorpion Grind in Craglorn - my view on it

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

Okay, for starters it can be perceived as an exploit or not but certainly not any more than block-casting and most people are okay with that since anyone can do it.

The grinds that annoy most people, are ones that intervene with questing. This grind has absolutely no interference with questing.. as everyone gathers in one specific spot and that is exactly where the fight happens and only where the fight happens for it to be worthwhile to those looking to grind Vet points.

The Thief/Shadow or whichever grind you'd like to call it still works and has a similar output in Vet points --- only that one can get in the way of quests or upset people doing the grind if others are doing the quest.

You may go to the Tower with a bunch of friends to find everything cleared out --- not cool.

They nerfed Anomalies and in all honesty they should've left it alone since those are really supposed to be big events although not necessary to have a zerg for it by any means, it feels as if that is what they intended with them.

Me personally, my investment into this game both financially and time-wise means I should be able to choose however I'd like to play the game --- as advertised. With that said, I am all for (personally) doing every quest in every nook and cranny you can find within the game on at least one character. I wouldn't do it any other way to be honest.

The Scorpion grind doesn't interfere with anyone and is the least intrusive of all grinds. Sure it looks funny at times, but.. who cares? It's not as if people gather around to hang out there as if it were in the middle of Rawl'kha.

It is very unappealing to make alts if you would have to go through all 3 alliances with all of their quests on every single one. Sometimes people just want to level other characters to have for trials, pvp, the arena, etc.. (I personally wanted to experience each of the classes however what I did not want to do is repeat every single thing in the game over and over again, one alliance on repeat is enough in my opinion).

So if you don't like it? Keep moving. If you do, good for you. But if there is to be a grind that is kept intact, Scorpion grind has my vote. It's good xp and out of the way from quests.

Sure you can argue that ZOS wants to keep subscribers busy, but making it very unappealing to create alts is NOT the way to go. If anything that would drive players to go find other games while waiting for new content . Having alts to work on without it becoming extremely tedious is what keeps many of us busy in between and even when finished working on alts, you then have a selection of different characters you can play. This adds far greater replay value in my experience and in my opinion. Having a quicker way to max out alts is a very good thing for those of us who have experienced everything ZOS has to offer on one of our characters at least. I saw topics were closed on this and I'm not sure why. However I just wanted to add my two cents. The Poll seems to show 78% (as of the time I write this) do not demand a fix for it... which is overwhelming proof that it should be left alone.

If they nerfed it, well I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep as I'm mostly done with my leveling of alts for quite a while. However, it would definitely make all of those extra people flock back to the other grinds (there will ALWAYS be grinds, it's an MMO!). More people at those other places that overlap with quests is NOT what we need.

There's my opinion on it.

GreyBrow · October 2014

Praise jeebus at least someone has a decent head on their shoulders.

95% of my guilders want to, or wish they had, rolled a different class/race/whatever. (Cough *sorc healers* cough), and providing a method to make a new character without being FORCED to undergo the torture of going back through and repeating boring quests that you've already done is enough to cause someone to simply quit the game. When faced with the question of "do I sink 200 hours into questing, doing the same thing I've just spent 200 hours doing to have a fresh experience, or do I find a new game to play to have a fresh experience?" people will choose the new game.

Every. Time.

One of the most successful online RPGs I can think of is Diablo 2. People STILL play that thing, 15 years later, even though there were only 5 "zones" and you had to redo them 3 consecutive times. And do you know why? Because there was the option of "rushing" a character to the endgame so that you could try a different build. In lieu of new content, they unwittingly provided a method by which you could make that old dusty content new and fun again. You could replay it over and over and over and over, time after time, and still find plenty of things to do.

You were locked into your skill and attribute choices, so if you made a mistake you had to level a new character, but the alternative rush and grind was actually... Dare I say... Fun?

You could take one class and have 4 or 5 different "builds" available, which required you to make 5 different characters! But no one complained, even though the Devs weren't bending over backwards to appease the kids complaining about character separation, balance, and player stupidity when allocating permanent skill points.

What's even more interesting, is that no one complained about the "paladin hammerdin/smite masterclass". I wonder why? Could it be that *gasp* ANYONE could, relatively easily, make their very own "overpowered" masterclass?

Maybe you should take a page out of an old notebook instead of trying to write some kind of masterpiece from scratch.

SoulScream · October 2014

Don't care about scorps. Live and let live. I'm amazed there is drama over squishing bugs!

MornaBaine · October 2014

I did the scorpion grind once and felt dirty. LOL That said, there's a good chance I may do it again at some point mostly because at this point I just don't find Craglorn all that compelling and would rather be roleplaying which, alas, does not help my Vet levels. LOL

chipputer · October 2014

"Play the way you want," as you referenced in your post, does not give you the freedom to circumvent or undermine the processes in the game, supposing you've found a way to.

Not that I'm saying this grind is one of those ways, but applying that phrase to this situation is dangerous and is the same logic that those who exploited items in the early days of the game probably used.

Chufu · October 2014

In my opinion, the players will find other ways to grind again. If the scorpions would be fixed, there are other ways to grind experience.

The grinding results of the "aversion" of that players, who don't want to quest stupid the whole time. I don't do that, but I can understand, that some guys want to to anything other then.

So what are the alternatives? You can questing, grinding, PvP-"ing", standing in Shornhelm and do nothing or going to trials/dungeons.

I think grinding is just one aspect of all the things you can do in ESO. If somebody like it: Just do it!

In my opinion, grinding is just veeeeery boring. So let them farm the scorpions, otherwise they will find other ways to grind

chipputer · October 2014

Chufu wrote: »

In my opinion, grinding is just veeeeery boring. So let them farm the scorpions, otherwise they will find other ways to grind

You mean like public dungeons in the veteran areas? Because I still see plenty of people doing that, despite how fruitless it is.

Easy solution, supposing Zen doesn't like this Scorpion thing: allow vet content to actually reward the players instead of being so stingy about it. I shouldn't have to go grind Craglorn for my fast ticket to VR14. I actually enjoy exploring the landscapes and seeing the sights, but due to that I'm stuck with trickle-down xp gain.

Kill two birds with one stone-- eliminate any possibility of "exploiting" and allow everyone to level up at a decent speed while doing what they want to do ("play how you want").

Soulshine · October 2014

MikeBob · October 2014

I watched this being done today for the first time, and I think it's absolutely insane.

For those who are into mindless grinding? Sure - to each his (or her) own.

But I sure as hell hope there's a lot more than this for me to do when I reach post-VR10 in terms of leveling - otherwise, I will be taking my measly $14.99 per month elsewhere.

BCBasher · October 2014

I found a screen shot of me in one of the scorpion hate threads. This is literally 1 minute after I found this gem. Between the vigilante/griefers and the control freaks who occasionally get group lead and the hilarity that comes when they boot the wrong person I've been finding this very entertaining and rewarding. BzT3nLkCMAAyHmN.jpg:large

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

chipputer wrote: »

Chufu wrote: »

In my opinion, grinding is just veeeeery boring. So let them farm the scorpions, otherwise they will find other ways to grind

You mean like public dungeons in the veteran areas? Because I still see plenty of people doing that, despite how fruitless it is.

Easy solution, supposing Zen doesn't like this Scorpion thing: allow vet content to actually reward the players instead of being so stingy about it. I shouldn't have to go grind Craglorn for my fast ticket to VR14. I actually enjoy exploring the landscapes and seeing the sights, but due to that I'm stuck with trickle-down xp gain.

Kill two birds with one stone-- eliminate any possibility of "exploiting" and allow everyone to level up at a decent speed while doing what they want to do ("play how you want").

The bolded statement is the issue.

Players are assuming that the goal of the game is to get to VR14 as fast as possible. Despite demanding a game that's fundamentally different from WoW, what do people do as soon as they're given a game with an interesting, rich progression? Race to endgame and whine about the lack of content.

I've never understood people who take pleasure in grinding in a game like ESO. This is an MMO set in one of the most exciting, enduring fantasy landscapes ever created in gaming, and you want to completely ignore that in favor of running laps around the same spot on the map?

I would support increased xp rewards for VR content (delve bosses and quests), but that won't fix the "I want it right now" mentality of the people ruining Craglorn with grind groups.

killedbyping · October 2014

Quests in Craglorn dont give you even half of one vet rank.
You either have to repeat unrewarding and boring daily quests (also dont forget all the time wasted trying to find a group for worthless journey) and hope you will ding max level before it get raised or find a grind spot.

ShadoPanauin · October 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Okay, for starters it can be perceived as an exploit or not but certainly not any more than block-casting and most people are okay with that since anyone can do it.

The grinds that annoy most people, are ones that intervene with questing. This grind has absolutely no interference with questing.. as everyone gathers in one specific spot and that is exactly where the fight happens and only where the fight happens for it to be worthwhile to those looking to grind Vet points.

The Thief/Shadow or whichever grind you'd like to call it still works and has a similar output in Vet points --- only that one can get in the way of quests or upset people doing the grind if others are doing the quest.

You may go to the Tower with a bunch of friends to find everything cleared out --- not cool.

They nerfed Anomalies and in all honesty they should've left it alone since those are really supposed to be big events although not necessary to have a zerg for it by any means, it feels as if that is what they intended with them.

Me personally, my investment into this game both financially and time-wise means I should be able to choose however I'd like to play the game --- as advertised. With that said, I am all for (personally) doing every quest in every nook and cranny you can find within the game on at least one character. I wouldn't do it any other way to be honest.

The Scorpion grind doesn't interfere with anyone and is the least intrusive of all grinds. Sure it looks funny at times, but.. who cares? It's not as if people gather around to hang out there as if it were in the middle of Rawl'kha.

It is very unappealing to make alts if you would have to go through all 3 alliances with all of their quests on every single one. Sometimes people just want to level other characters to have for trials, pvp, the arena, etc.. (I personally wanted to experience each of the classes however what I did not want to do is repeat every single thing in the game over and over again, one alliance on repeat is enough in my opinion).

So if you don't like it? Keep moving. If you do, good for you. But if there is to be a grind that is kept intact, Scorpion grind has my vote. It's good xp and out of the way from quests.

Sure you can argue that ZOS wants to keep subscribers busy, but making it very unappealing to create alts is NOT the way to go. If anything that would drive players to go find other games while waiting for new content . Having alts to work on without it becoming extremely tedious is what keeps many of us busy in between and even when finished working on alts, you then have a selection of different characters you can play. This adds far greater replay value in my experience and in my opinion. Having a quicker way to max out alts is a very good thing for those of us who have experienced everything ZOS has to offer on one of our characters at least. I saw topics were closed on this and I'm not sure why. However I just wanted to add my two cents. The Poll seems to show 78% (as of the time I write this) do not demand a fix for it... which is overwhelming proof that it should be left alone.

If they nerfed it, well I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep as I'm mostly done with my leveling of alts for quite a while. However, it would definitely make all of those extra people flock back to the other grinds (there will ALWAYS be grinds, it's an MMO!). More people at those other places that overlap with quests is NOT what we need.

There's my opinion on it.

What is the shadow grind then? What if the shadow grind was nerfed? What if atronarch was nerfed? This is a grind, and people will use the most efficient way to get their levels. I tried questing to get my v14. Not fun.

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

I absolutely love questing in this game, however I have done it all on my main and I paid enough attention to remember it all. I don't mind completing the 1-50 quests all over again for alts but I'd rather level alts and then get them their skill points. Sure it may sound like a waste of time, but the point being I can use any of them to run dungeons, trials, arena, pvp, etc.. WHILE doing that is a nice way to divide it up.

@ShadoPanauin‌ Those grinds are fine with me. But they do interfere a lot with questing (especially the Thief... imagine someone who needs the quest runs over while a group is there.... people will be filing reports for them griefing!)

The Scorpion Grind is non-invasive in my opinion. However yes, multiple grinding methods should be available to those who want to level alts or simply avoid questing (although again, I LOVE QUESTING in this game... I just prefer to have my alts ready to take on different roles in Trials, Dungeons, and Arena as well as for PVP since many people running around there now are VR14 in my campaign). So, unlike my main which I made questing my primary goal and am happy I did, my alts I want to level then go back to other quests for skillpoints and such later on since I already knows what happens in each and every one firsthand! I'm also not one for dailies unless they add daily challenges and/or weekly challenges which can change. I mean I'll do some, but that's about it.

chipputer · October 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The bolded statement is the issue.

Players are assuming that the goal of the game is to get to VR14 as fast as possible. Despite demanding a game that's fundamentally different from WoW, what do people do as soon as they're given a game with an interesting, rich progression? Race to endgame and whine about the lack of content.

I've never understood people who take pleasure in grinding in a game like ESO. This is an MMO set in one of the most exciting, enduring fantasy landscapes ever created in gaming, and you want to completely ignore that in favor of running laps around the same spot on the map?

I would support increased xp rewards for VR content (delve bosses and quests), but that won't fix the "I want it right now" mentality of the people ruining Craglorn with grind groups.

I completely agree.

Forgive me if my post came across like I wanted the fast track-- that wasn't my intention (not sure if you're thinking that). Heck, my highest level is still only VR4. I spend more time helping my guild out and enjoying the game at my own pace than anything else.

hiyde · October 2014

Let's be clear here - I don't think anyone is calling 'grinds' an exploit.

The debate is, and has been, that the adds from this boss are being reset to force a boss respawn (therefore all the XP and boss loot that comes with it) every 10 seconds.

So instead of the boss being allowed its natural respawn cycle (5 mins post-death), it's being manipulated to respawn every 10 seconds. Since this boss has no loot timer, that means boss loot every 10 seconds.

Killing the boss as intended (every 5 mins) = 37,000XP x 12 = 444,000 XP/hour (which can be supplemented greatly with tons of mobs nearby while waiting for respawn).

Killing the boss and then resetting the adds, say, every 15 seconds=37,000XP x 360 = 8.8 Million XP/hr and full bags of boss loot every 15 minutes.

ZoS has already made it clear that this was not intended and has stated they are working on a fix. The scorpion issue isn't that it's a grind. It's that the boss is being manipulated into respawning immediately upon death instead of in 5 minutes, resulting in XP and loot being gained faster than intended.

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

I'd rather them limit the amount of loot you could get. I have no need for any grind currently, however this is one grind that is completely out of the way of the others and doesn't overlap with those on quests. There are plenty of "normal" grinds which completely interfere with people wanting to quest.

They need more grinds like this for those wanting to level their alts. I'm not in favor of people just "fast-tracking" their mains as there are so many missions and plenty of hidden missions to be found everywhere and that is how I leveled my main. But who am I to say how they play their characters if it doesn't interfere with mine?

I did however see the 1.5 notes and it seems Veteran Points will now be replaced with good ol' XP as well as it requiring a lot less to level through the veteran ranks. I'm not sure how I feel about it but I do like that there's just one XP system now instead of Veteran Points since those of us who do everything are already VR1 by the time we are in Coldharbour without any grinding... so a lot of kills wind up not counting towards leveling up. That will soon all change... great move by ZOS imo!

I still do believe there should be a way for people wanting to level alts to have a high XP grind that is out of the way of those questing. How many arguments spur up over people doing "normal grinds" versus those questing because trails of bosses are killed by a zerg over and over on repeat... it becomes a bit silly after a while and is exactly why there should be options that don't overlap with those who are questing.