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Lets Talk About Bat Swarm..... Again
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NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Bring back the one shot silver bolt kills. Why? it's balanced. They one shot me, I one shot them.
Oh I do love bathing in the pools of vampire tears.Edited by NadiusMaximus on September 4, 2014 9:44AM4 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »Why heavy? Its bonus damage is for melee.
The game has two types of damage. Physical and Magical.
(and unresistable for defence calculations)
Melee/Physical damage bonuses are applied for all weapon damage except the two staves.
And for the same reason the Khajiit Carnage applies to bows also, not swords only.
Heavy armour does give damage bonus to bow. It was a long discussion back in April. If you do not believe me, use CLS and test it.
On this game we do not have Ranged damage, like other games have.
Now why Heavy and not Medium. Given the amount of Impenetrable stacking at Cyrodiil, makes no sense to use Medium armour. Is better to use heavy if you have some ability to raise your STA regen to 70. As a Templar I use Repentance, and is working OK.
As for Cloth vs Heavy. I will point out at all those cloth wearers who die swiftly with couple of arrows, or the melee attacks from NB Assassination and Templar Aedric Spear lines.Edited by p_tsakirisb16_ESO on September 4, 2014 10:02AM1 -
Gigglesnort✭✭✭My level 30 nb has swarm and I don't see the problem with it, it has saved my butt a few times while walking into a mob of 5 that I didn't see, but then again, I don't pvp with that character and haven't had problems against swarm on the characters I do pvp with, so don't see any reason to change it on the pve side just because it hinders someones ability to play on pvp, adapt, conquer and move onto the next.OIIIIIIIO
Death is only the beginning2 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are several ways already in the game to effectively handle this. My only thought about Bat Swarm is it is way too cheap for a kick-@$$ mobile ulti. (Though for top level players that get the ulti bump from passives, it probably will still get cast enough to bug everyone even if it costs more).-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
pad11✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Bring back the one shot silver bolt kills. Why? it's balanced. They one shot me, I one shot them.
Oh I do love bathing in the pools of vampire tears.
COULDN'T...AGREE....MORE....4 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The most anoying thing about the swarm is you often don't see it coming, especially since the guy is invisible. This is even worse with all the lag. Sometimes tou just blow up, open death recap and you see batswarms hitting you for 1200 each.1 -
Rooty✭✭✭The most anoying thing about the swarm is you often don't see it coming, especially since the guy is invisible. This is even worse with all the lag. Sometimes tou just blow up, open death recap and you see batswarms hitting you for 1200 each.
If 1200 from batswarm shows up in your log, that means you got hit by at least 4 out of its 6 ticks.
In which case, I advise you to dodge.Edited by Rooty on October 8, 2014 7:05PMNo Mercy
Rooty, Rooty-san, Rooty-sama, Rooty-chan, Rooty-senpai
Reality is for people who don't play video games.
WHERE IS SHE?!
#FreeBraidas1 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭HEY GAIS!!!
Don't worry, they'll be fixing how Ultimate Generation works in the near future to make burst dps and DoT builds gain Ultimate on par with one another.
This will fix the frequency in which you see bat swarm on the battlefield.
Check the guild summit notes out, awesome read.NadiusMaximus wrote: »Bring back the one shot silver bolt kills. Why? it's balanced. They one shot me, I one shot them.
Oh I do love bathing in the pools of vampire tears.
COULDN'T...AGREE....MORE....
They don't need Silver Bolt 1 shot kills anymore - you can 2 shot ANY vampire with a Camouflaged Hunter from stealth followed by a Silver Shard/Bolt/Leash.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »
of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I swear people act as though bat swarm has a 1 mile radius. It's not that difficult to move out of the way.:trollin:2 -
Aoe_Barbecue✭✭✭✭✭of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.
0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Move out of the damn way. If you stand there and let a cloud of bats kill you then you deserve to die. It's really not that complicated.Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.:trollin:0 -
Aoe_Barbecue✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Move out of the damn way. If you stand there and let a cloud of bats kill you then you deserve to die. It's really not that complicated.Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.
You mistake me, penitent. I am the Firebat. My bats shall feast upon your slowly cooked, charcoal flavored flesh.3 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sigh, didn't I just say you often don't see it coming? Something with invisible players, and server lag? Plus the animation doesnt stand out within a sea of impulse spam...The most anoying thing about the swarm is you often don't see it coming, especially since the guy is invisible. This is even worse with all the lag. Sometimes tou just blow up, open death recap and you see batswarms hitting you for 1200 each.
If 1200 from batswarm shows up in your log, that means you got hit by at least 4 out of its 6 ticks.
In which case, I advise you to dodge.
4 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Move out of the damn way. If you stand there and let a cloud of bats kill you then you deserve to die. It's really not that complicated.Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.
I agree.0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Move out of the damn way. If you stand there and let a cloud of bats kill you then you deserve to die. It's really not that complicated.Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.
You mistake me, penitent. I am the Firebat. My bats shall feast upon your slowly cooked, charcoal flavored flesh.
what is this firebat stuff I keep hearing of?Edited by Cody on October 8, 2014 9:15PM0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Why aren't you complaining about the impulse spam? Isn't the lag the real issue here?
Sigh, didn't I just say you often don't see it coming? Something with invisible players, and server lag? Plus the animation doesnt stand out within a sea of impulse spam...The most anoying thing about the swarm is you often don't see it coming, especially since the guy is invisible. This is even worse with all the lag. Sometimes tou just blow up, open death recap and you see batswarms hitting you for 1200 each.
If 1200 from batswarm shows up in your log, that means you got hit by at least 4 out of its 6 ticks.
In which case, I advise you to dodge.
:trollin:1 -
Aoe_Barbecue✭✭✭✭✭As AD zerglings race into the resource, the trollcampers see the blood thirsty bats and Fiery Rings, and pull away from the resource, fleeing the scent of fresh blood and burnt flesh emanating from the tower...
Cody looks at his group leader, confused.
Cody: This kill log, it doesn't make sense.
The group leader stares after the Firebat. The zonechat whining of the trollcampers becoming louder and more ferocious.
Group Leader: Because...
The Firebat SPAMS Fiery Rings and Batswarms within in the resource tower. He emerges. Stumbling. Bleeding. He makes it to the flag...
Group Leader: ...he's the hero Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero.
The resource flag burns glorious blue, striking fear into the AD zerglings, the Firebat's Destruction Staff pointed skyward. A wraith ...
Group Leader (cont'd): He's a Batswarming blood sucker. A glorious AoE Barbecue of Fiery Rings. A Firebat.
The Firebat rides his valiant steed, Sarah Jessica Parker, into the sunset.Edited by Aoe_Barbecue on October 8, 2014 9:29PM4 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Because that's not.... original?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Why aren't you complaining about the impulse spam? Isn't the lag the real issue here?
Sigh, didn't I just say you often don't see it coming? Something with invisible players, and server lag? Plus the animation doesnt stand out within a sea of impulse spam...The most anoying thing about the swarm is you often don't see it coming, especially since the guy is invisible. This is even worse with all the lag. Sometimes tou just blow up, open death recap and you see batswarms hitting you for 1200 each.
If 1200 from batswarm shows up in your log, that means you got hit by at least 4 out of its 6 ticks.
In which case, I advise you to dodge.
Seriously though I do think in a 1v1 fight, bat swarm can be easily avoided, though at quite a high stamina cost (dodging out of it, than additional dodges for getting out of roots or having to sprint away). But it's not OP in that scenario.
The main problem is that it's way too cheap for how good and complete of an ultimate it is. If it would be harder to reach it would be somewhat more balanced. Right now, in large group fights, when theres more than 1 person using it, you have a really small window to get away without taking too much damage. And while running away, you are susceptivle to ranged stuns and/or snares or roots, which WILL make sure you get in range of the batswarms again if they have you as their primary target. It's so easy to say, just run away, but in group vs group situations its not allways that easy, especially when you're melee.
Something has to be done to make it more balanced. A small movement speed reduction, plus a notably higher cost would seem best to make it a bit more in line with the rest.
And of course, this all is made worse by the lag. And batswarm is just one of the most deadly skills to stand in for too long, which is why combined with lag I died to it a lot.
Edited by Koensol on October 8, 2014 9:30PM1 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭If bats is OP, then so is the following:
Streak
Soul Tether
Soul Harvest
Snipe (either morph)
Take Flight
Sheild Stacking (How many can you stack?)
Fire Ring
Impulse
Venom Arrow
Crystal Fragments
Talons
Flame Lash
Veil of Blades
Annulment
Immoveable
Heavy Armour (lols)
Basically, any good skill that is useable in Cyrodiil is OP. At least that's how I read things when visiting the forum.
It's a L2P problem not an OP one.
Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...2 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
AD :: Imported Waffles [37]EP :: Wee ee ee ee ee [16]DC :: Ghostbane's DK [16], Impending Loadscreen [12]PC - NA
AD :: Ghostbane [50], yer ma [43], Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 2.0 [18], robotic baby legs [18]EP :: Wee Mad Arthur [50], avast ye buttcrackz [49], Sir Horace Foghorn [27], Brother Ballbag [24], Scatman John [16]DC :: W T B Waffles [36], Morale Boost [30], W T F Waffles [17], Ghostbanë [15]RIPAD :: Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 1.0 [20]- AP Meter : All your AP needs
- Greyskull : Customisable, colour-coded Damage Meter
- Auto Research Scrolls : Automatic management of crafting research scrolls
- ITTs Donation Bot : Donation tracker for Guilds
- ITTs Roster Bot : Roster management for Guilds
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Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Move out of the damn way. If you stand there and let a cloud of bats kill you then you deserve to die. It's really not that complicated.Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »of course.
but people don't seem to understand the STAY THE (SNIP) OUT OF THE BATS philosophy.
either people need to start learning
or the ultimate needs to have a higher cost
either or
I assure you that no system or category ever conceptualized or actualized, ever and of all time, has remedied the rigorousness of human stupidity. Thus imposing new systems or editing existing ones won't fix anything.
If you die to VoB or Standard because you stood there then it is your fault. The issue with batswarm is that the the player can move it around and stick to their target. You can dodge 2 or 3 times and lose most your stamina but Swarm will still hit you 4 times. You can stand their blocking but you will still lose half your life and stamina. See what the main problem is...... it is moveable while the other power class ultimates are NOT. On top of that most people use the invisbility morph and cannot be targeted so the counters are very limited. Bolt Escape is really the only good counter and only 1 class has it.
You can defend this ability all you want or say move out of the way (which does'nt work if you are the target) But when you look at all the strengths batswarm has compared to the other ultimates it is rediculous.
Simply take away the ability to move it so it is like the other powerful AOE ultimates like Viel of Blades and Standard.
7 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭If bats is OP, then so is the following:
Streak
Soul Tether
Soul Harvest
Snipe (either morph)
Take Flight
Sheild Stacking (How many can you stack?)
Fire Ring
Impulse
Venom Arrow
Crystal Fragments
Talons
Flame Lash
Veil of Blades
Annulment
Immoveable
Heavy Armour (lols)
Basically, any good skill that is useable in Cyrodiil is OP. At least that's how I read things when visiting the forum.
It's a L2P problem not an OP one.
While many of those things you listed have issues and could use balnacing none of them still compare to Bat swarm. When you see every class use batswarm over their class ultimates that means there is a problem. There are times when you will see 10 bat swarms used in less than a minute on the battle field.
You can break down all the strengths of Ultimates like AOE, Damage, moveable and so on and situations when to use them. The problem with batswarms is it has all teh strengths and on top of that it has invisibibility. Why use any other ultimate when batswarm is better in every way and for every situation? See the problem...?1 -
dcincali✭✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »If bats is OP, then so is the following:
Streak
Soul Tether
Soul Harvest
Snipe (either morph)
Take Flight
Sheild Stacking (How many can you stack?)
Fire Ring
Impulse
Venom Arrow
Crystal Fragments
Talons
Flame Lash
Veil of Blades
Annulment
Immoveable
Heavy Armour (lols)
Basically, any good skill that is useable in Cyrodiil is OP. At least that's how I read things when visiting the forum.
It's a L2P problem not an OP one.
While many of those things you listed have issues and could use balnacing none of them still compare to Bat swarm. When you see every class use batswarm over their class ultimates that means there is a problem. There are times when you will see 10 bat swarms used in less than a minute on the battle field.
You can break down all the strengths of Ultimates like AOE, Damage, moveable and so on and situations when to use them. The problem with batswarms is it has all teh strengths and on top of that it has invisibibility. Why use any other ultimate when batswarm is better in every way and for every situation? See the problem...?
There are skills that specifically combat vampires.. Please research them. Thanks.
1 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just about to say that dc.
Grab a bow, use camo hunter and a heavy attack. Then follow up with sliver bolts. Pop goes the Vamp. It's not exactly hard to invest into.
I know players in Cyrodiil that have had enough of vamps and have set themselves up with being vamp killers, again it's not hard.Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO5ZbWY_Cb8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umYgPeunq20
