A few small but necessary changes that no one can argue with

Erock25 · October 2014

This will be a short but focused list on small changes that I believe are absolutely necessary that I feel are nearly impossible to argue against. The following list also excludes new features that I feel are needed and instead focuses on design choices or oversights that should be changed.

1. Healthy trait on rings/necklace has to have 1.5 times the value of arcane/robust. When every other option of health/magicka/stamina in the game comes at a 1.5/1/1 ration, there is NO REASON that accessories should be 1/1/1. It makes no sense and should be hot-fixed immediately.

2. Two handed weapons need to count for 2 pieces of an item set. Sword & Shield and Dual Wield are not inherently less powerful than the two handed counterparts and therefore there is no reason to give this extra bonus to these weapon sets. People may say that there is a dominance of Staff users out there and that they are more powerful than SnS and DW, but I believe that is a function of synergy with a focus on magicka which also happens to be what fuels your class abilities.

3. Armor traits need to be normalized so that they are either all the same effectiveness regardless of major or minor piece or they are ALL different effectiveness based on major or minor piece. The major offender here is Impenetrable being equal regardless of whether it is a major or minor piece. There is no reason that trait A, B, C, and D are 50% as effective on minor pieces and then trait E is 100% on minors.

4. Your last used 'choices' on a guild kiosk search should be saved while going between different stores. By choices I mean if I was searching Light Armor, Legs, Impenetrable, Blue, VR10-14 in one guild kiosk and I exit and go to the next guild kiosk, that selection should still be there.

5. Hireling mails need to be switched to a 22 hour and 10 hour timer. A lot of people have daily schedules that do not change because of work/kids/class/etc. Having the hireling mails on full day or 1/2 day scales makes it so there is absolutely zero wiggle room in your daily schedule if you want to get all of the hireling mails possible. You can only get your hireling mail later and later every day unless you skip a cycle. Hell even 23.5/11.5 hour timers would do the trick. This is a small annoyance but one that I feel would go a long way towards not pissing people off.

AlexDougherty · October 2014

I have no objection to these changes, but then I have no objection to the current set up.

Thechemicals · October 2014

I object to all of it, especially the 2h sword thing. Might want to change the thread title now.

Rodario · October 2014

I most certainly CAN argue with some of these proposals, (2,3 and 5) I'm just too tired right now. I'm sure someone will pick up the slack.

Weberda · October 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

I object to all of it, especially the 2h sword thing. Might want to change the thread title now.

Agree, 100%.

Riandr · October 2014

I agree with 4 and 5 especially. If I need to research a specific trait on a piece of armor it would so much easier if I could scan a group of traders without having to comb through all the options. As for emails from hirelings.. please! I miss my emails all the time due to my schedule and as I have spent the same skill point that someone else with a less structured schedule has, I should still be able to retrieve my items. I did essentially 'pay' for them!

Divinius · October 2014

I agree that I can't see any logical argument to object to any of these. And since none of the people that did say they would object bothered to explain why, I'm going to say the OP is correct so far.

Rodario · October 2014

Divinius wrote: »

I agree that I can't see any logical argument to object to any of these. And since none of the people that did say they would object bothered to explain why, I'm going to say the OP is correct so far.

It's mostly because those suggestions we object to have been suggested and argued over too many times to do it again.

Zabus · October 2014

Really disagree with number 3.

Inversus · October 2014

'A few small but necessary changes that no one can argue with'

A challenge, eh?

1 - ok
2 - don't mind
3 - ok
4 - yesssss
5 - ok

dharbert · October 2014

Hireling mails should be placed in your inbox regardless of you logging in or not. If I have Hireling 3, I should receive 2 mails per 24 hours even if I don't log in.

ZOS is getting my sub fee whether I log in or not, so if I don't log in for a week, I should have 14 hireling mails waiting in my inbox.

Not everyone can play this game 24/7 and log in to receive every Hireling mail. Some of us have lives, ZOS.

Emperor · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

This will be a short but focused list on small changes that I believe are absolutely necessary that I feel are nearly impossible to argue against.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

1) Ehhh ok, this makes sense, but I don't see it as an important issue.

2) No, 2H weapons are 1 item, not 2. First of all, how would you even implement something like that? They would have to change their system so all 2H weapons could have 2 set traits on them. Secondly, I like the fact that I have to make a decision whether or not I want to weild 2 weapons to get an extra set trait bonus. It adds more differentiation to builds and makes your choices matter. It also gives people more of an incentive to not make a cookie cutter build with staff

3) Why? The reason armor traits like infused are less effective on small peices of armor is because the bonus is a % of the enchantment on the item. It makes sense that infused would be less effective on a smaller item with a smaller enchantment amount. I see your point that THEY COULD CHOOSE to make other enchantments like impenetrable less effective on small peices of armor because it covers less of your body, but the way they have it set up still makes sense and I don't see a reason they should "have" to change it.

4) Ehhh, I can see how this would be helpful in certain situations where you are looking for a single item, but it would also get annoying in other situations where YOU WANT those settings reset. This just comes down to personal preference/laziness.

5) Hirelings are fine the way they are. So what if you can't log in exactly 24 hours after the last hireling mail to get the rewards precisely every 24 hours? If they decrease it down to 12 hours people will just complain they can't log in exactly every 12 hours.

Gedalya · October 2014

I disagree.

I would like to see a patch for PvP to improve management of Home & Guest campaigns across characters. Right now you can't have two toons on the same campaign if they are in opposing factions; however with 8 characters and only 5 campaigns, it can be tricky swapping out if you want another toon in an opposing faction in a campaign. In fact this is likely why one of the contributing factors the the dead campaigns we are seeing now.

Further, WTB ability to remove Home & Guest campaign for character not playing PvP with.

Chuggernaut · October 2014

1. Agree - Makes sense to me
2. Disagree - Its the trade off you make to hold a two handed weapon.
3. Agree - Great point
4. Agree - since no global or regional all item search is available, this would help alot
5. Agree - but at Tier 3 you should just get 2 emails max per-craft per-day. It's silly to try and force a 2nd login on the user just to get your stuff.

reften · October 2014

I like #2. Agree for 2H and Bow...but not staffs. Staffs are already overpowered...

Erock25 · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Hireling mails should be placed in your inbox regardless of you logging in or not. If I have Hireling 3, I should receive 2 mails per 24 hours even if I don't log in.

ZOS is getting my sub fee whether I log in or not, so if I don't log in for a week, I should have 14 hireling mails waiting in my inbox.

Not everyone can play this game 24/7 and log in to receive every Hireling mail. Some of us have lives, ZOS.

I agree that this is also an option, but I do find it acceptable for a game to encourage you to log on as often as possible.

Emperor wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This will be a short but focused list on small changes that I believe are absolutely necessary that I feel are nearly impossible to argue against.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

1) Ehhh ok, this makes sense, but I don't see it as an important issue.

2) No, 2H weapons are 1 item, not 2. First of all, how would you even implement something like that? They would have to change their system so all 2H weapons could have 2 set traits on them. Secondly, I like the fact that I have to make a decision whether or not I want to weild 2 weapons to get an extra set trait bonus. It adds more differentiation to builds and makes your choices matter. It also gives people more of an incentive to not make a cookie cutter build with staff

3) Why? The reason armor traits like infused are less effective on small peices of armor is because the bonus is a % of the enchantment on the item. It makes sense that infused would be less effective on a smaller item with a smaller enchantment amount. I see your point that THEY COULD CHOOSE to make other enchantments like impenetrable less effective on small peices of armor because it covers less of your body, but the way they have it set up still makes sense and I don't see a reason they should "have" to change it.

4) Ehhh, I can see how this would be helpful in certain situations where you are looking for a single item, but it would also get annoying in other situations where YOU WANT those settings reset. This just comes down to personal preference/laziness.

5) Hirelings are fine the way they are. So what if you can't log in exactly 24 hours after the last hireling mail to get the rewards precisely every 24 hours? If they decrease it down to 12 hours people will just complain they can't log in exactly every 12 hours.

2) It would be implemented that your set choice on the 2h weapons would count as 2 items towards your set bonuses. You could not put two different set bonuses on one 2h item. I understand your reasoning that it creates more decisions but I feel like there is absolutely no reason I can not reach the same number of set bonuses on my 2h sword as I could with dual wield. There should be an added bonus to the 2h sword over dual wield to counteract this, and there is not. Traits values are equal. Enchantments are equal. Relative power is equal. You debate that how it is now is good to encourage people to not use a cookie cutter build with staff (resto isn't really anything special now without that 10% anyways) but so then why is 2h sword and bow still getting shafted?

3) I'm doubting myself here but I could have sworn Infused was less effective on minor pieces because it had less of a % on minors compared to majors. I also thought that Divines was the same. I thought almost all traits besides Impenetrable and Well-Fitted were less value on a minor piece and I apologize if I was wrong about this.

5) It is all about a daily schedule thing. If I leave for work at 6am every day and I log in at 5:55am every day to get my mail, I'll keep getting pushed back by further and further to where the mail doesn't show up until 5:59am and then I have to skip a day. Just having the timer be slightly under 12 hours will go a long way to fix this because you can essentially lower your mail reset time on a 24 hour schedule.

Erock25 · October 2014

Gedalya wrote: »

I disagree.

I would like to see a patch for PvP to improve management of Home & Guest campaigns across characters. Right now you can't have two toons on the same campaign if they are in opposing factions; however with 8 characters and only 5 campaigns, it can be tricky swapping out if you want another toon in an opposing faction in a campaign. In fact this is likely why one of the contributing factors the the dead campaigns we are seeing now.

Further, WTB ability to remove Home & Guest campaign for character not playing PvP with.

I should have certainly added the ability to remove Home and Guest campaign.

Chuggernaut wrote: »

2. Disagree - Its the trade off you make to hold a two handed weapon.

But why should there be a tradeoff for using a 2h sword compared to using dual wield? That is my whole point that there should not be a trade off because 2h sword (axe/maul) isn't receiving ANY benefit at all in this trade.

oren74 wrote: »

I like #2. Agree for 2H and Bow...but not staffs. Staffs are already overpowered...

Well I for one do not think Resto staff is overpowered anymore. Yes it will always be prevalent in PVP because mostly Sorc and NB rely on it for heals, but without the 10% bonus dmg there is little other reason to use it. Sure the channel heavy attack is nice for fighting Reflect DKs and magicka restore on block is good but that is not OP.

The relative power of Destruction staff compared to the other weapons is another topic but I do not think Resto, Bow, and 2h should suffer for one overpowered weapon choice.

eliisra · October 2014

1. Agreed. Why is healthy still not fixed? There no arguments or logic behind it. Only laziness.

2. I can sort of understand the idea behind shields offering an extra slot, it's 8th pieces of armour if you want to be more tanky. You put armour enchants on it, not weapon glyphs. When it comes to DW, I don't know what to think. Never used it. Does 2 weapon enchants even make a difference in terms of proc'ing effects?

3. Agreed x100. Why these junk traits making 90% of all armour sets trash at level cap? Why even bother designing armour sets, when we cant use them due to junk traits? I would love a chat with who ever is in charge of itemization. But I doubt it's an actual person that added training and exploration on VR14 gear lol.

4. Yes, guild stores could be more user-friendly. To much scrolling and clicking is required when you change shop. It's not very nice game play for us with painful office injuries.

5. They could probably cut the timer an hour or two for people with real life obligations. But nothing I'm to upset about. Having them maxed on 5 characters, I already swim in materials and money. If I miss a delivery, it's not the end of the world.

Ohioastro · October 2014

Cutting the hireling timer by a couple of hours would be really handy. In practice, 12 and 24 hour timers tend to really disfavor people who don't design their day around logging into and out of a game; I rarely get 2/day from my hirelings because I can't reliably log in 12 hours after whenever I start an evening session. Almost all other games that I can think of design things like this around 20 hour cycles. I'd favor just a single hireling email (double items at level 3) over the 2x daily thing.

This would hurt no one, and if someone is so OCD that they'll warp their sleep schedule to squeeze a couple of extra mails out of a 22 hour cycle, more power to them.

Kalann_Pander · October 2014

1 - Yes
2 - No. The different weapon types are in fact statistically balanced. Any imbalances should be resolved by adjusting the skills and resource management.
3 - Armor traits ARE normalized. You are confusing with enchantments, which are not (100% strength for torso, head, legs, and shields - 40% strength for shoulders, hands, belts, and shoes). Because of this, the Infused trait is indeed more useful on the big armor pieces, not because the infused % changes, but because the base number (enchantment strength) is lower.
4 - Could be useful as an option.
5 - Something like this, or fixed time deliveries, as long as hireling time management stops being a PitA.

Dominoid · October 2014

4 - http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info695-AwesomeGuildStore.html

Erock25 · October 2014

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

1 - Yes
2 - No. The different weapon types are in fact statistically balanced. Any imbalances should be resolved by adjusting the skills and resource management.
3 - Armor traits ARE normalized. You are confusing with enchantments, which are not (100% strength for torso, head, legs, and shields - 40% strength for shoulders, hands, belts, and shoes). Because of this, the Infused trait is indeed more useful on the big armor pieces, not because the infused % changes, but because the base number (enchantment strength) is lower.
4 - Could be useful as an option.
5 - Something like this, or fixed time deliveries, as long as hireling time management stops being a PitA.

2 - Statistically balanced in every way but set bonuses. What statistical advantage does a 2 handed sword have over dual wield? It's not PVE DPS. It's not PVP DPS. So what is the bonus then?

3 - Yep I screwed up.

MikeBob · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

(...)

5. Hireling mails need to be switched to a 22 hour and 10 hour timer. A lot of people have daily schedules that do not change because of work/kids/class/etc. Having the hireling mails on full day or 1/2 day scales makes it so there is absolutely zero wiggle room in your daily schedule if you want to get all of the hireling mails possible. You can only get your hireling mail later and later every day unless you skip a cycle. Hell even 23.5/11.5 hour timers would do the trick. This is a small annoyance but one that I feel would go a long way towards not pissing people off.

(emphasis mine)

This makes me angrier by the day.

I've noticed that I'm not getting the full benefit of the points I've spent on my hirelings because I have to log in to get the deliveries - EVEN IF I'm already logged into the game - I have to log out and then back in.

And as the OP indicated, the deliveries invariably get later and later, until you wind up skipping a cycle.

And what happens if you're AFK or can't log in for some reason?

You lose out on deliveries?

Really?

WHY can't they simply be delivered to players on a set schedule, for us to claim when when we log in (as I presume would be the case if another player mails me something while I'm not logged in)?

These deliveries REALLY need to be handled better.

As for the rest of the list, I'm a bit like Alex - I could go either way, really. (I have no argument against any of it, though).

(edited to fix typos)

IrishGirlGamer · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

ZOS is getting my sub fee whether I log in or not, so if I don't log in for a week, I should have 14 hireling mails waiting in my inbox.

On this, I completely agree - to the point that I contact ZOS customer service to complain.

I know it sounds like overkill maybe and it could be subject to abuse. I would support a reasonable system that doesn't reward hoarders. But my frustration is I'm in grad school, I work almost full time AND I'm doing an internship this semester. I simply cannot log in every day - and I surely can't do it twice a day.

Please ZOS, rethink this. Maybe deliver them to our bank?

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

This will be a short but focused list on small changes that I believe are absolutely necessary that I feel are nearly impossible to argue against. The following list also excludes new features that I feel are needed and instead focuses on design choices or oversights that should be changed.

1. Healthy trait on rings/necklace has to have 1.5 times the value of arcane/robust. When every other option of health/magicka/stamina in the game comes at a 1.5/1/1 ration, there is NO REASON that accessories should be 1/1/1. It makes no sense and should be hot-fixed immediately.

This makes sense.

3. Two handed weapons need to count for 2 pieces of an item set. Sword & Shield and Dual Wield are not inherently less powerful than the two handed counterparts and therefore there is no reason to give this extra bonus to these weapon sets. People may say that there is a dominance of Staff users out there and that they are more powerful than SnS and DW, but I believe that is a function of synergy with a focus on magicka which also happens to be what fuels your class abilities.

I never understood why all weapons do the same base damage to begin with. They really should also add more damage types, slashing, piercing, crushing, etc., as well.

3. Armor traits need to be normalized so that they are either all the same effectiveness regardless of major or minor piece or they are ALL different effectiveness based on major or minor piece. The major offender here is Impenetrable being equal regardless of whether it is a major or minor piece. There is no reason that trait A, B, C, and D are 50% as effective on minor pieces and then trait E is 100% on minors.

They should update the tool tips on these items as well. I learned the hard way that the glyphs I put on were only half as effective.

4. Your last used 'choices' on a guild kiosk search should be saved while going between different stores. By choices I mean if I was searching Light Armor, Legs, Impenetrable, Blue, VR10-14 in one guild kiosk and I exit and go to the next guild kiosk, that selection should still be there.

If they won't include a world/faction broker then this is at least the next best thing. I think a "recent searches" list would be nice even just for checking between your own guild vendors at the bank.

5. Hireling mails need to be switched to a 22 hour and 10 hour timer. A lot of people have daily schedules that do not change because of work/kids/class/etc. Having the hireling mails on full day or 1/2 day scales makes it so there is absolutely zero wiggle room in your daily schedule if you want to get all of the hireling mails possible. You can only get your hireling mail later and later every day unless you skip a cycle. Hell even 23.5/11.5 hour timers would do the trick. This is a small annoyance but one that I feel would go a long way towards not pissing people off.

I don't see why you should have to log in to get the mails anyway. Who cares if you log in for 5 minutes a day to get the items or if you get them all at once? Like you mentioned some people cannot log in on a regular schedule and they shouldn't be punished for it.

Ohioastro · October 2014

For what it's worth, points 4 and 5 really don't impact balance at all and are just good ideas. Point 1 is fair (and they did this for health / magic / stam enchants, so it's reasonable.) Point 2 really is a matter of dispute and there are other ways to balance things. Point 3 is a bit more subtle and I could see it either way.

ItsMeToo · October 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

I object to all of it, especially the 2h sword thing. Might want to change the thread title now.

I agree

Holycannoli · October 2014

I was just thinking about #5 today. Star Trek Online uses a 20 hour timer which works great. It's still functionally once a day but gives you some wiggle room. With a true 24 hour timer it gets later and later until you eventually have to skip a day because you're asleep, unless you can somehow log on at the same exact time every single day without fail.

I don't want half a day but I'd love a 20 hour timer instead of 24.

MornaBaine · October 2014

You could start a poll asking if oxygen was beneficial and people would answer NO and then argue in the comments about how oxygen is OP. Just sayin'.

Aside from that, I do like most of your suggestions.

Kalann_Pander · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

2 - Statistically balanced in every way but set bonuses. What statistical advantage does a 2 handed sword have over dual wield? It's not PVE DPS. It's not PVP DPS. So what is the bonus then?

Indeed. DW has over 2H 2 advantages :
- counts for 2 set pieces.
- Allows 2 weapon enchants.

I have limited experience with 2Handers, and none with DW, so can't say if the skill line makes up for those advantages. Given other player's feedback, most likely not.

However, I don't believe that making 2Handers count double for sets is the way to go. That would open the door for bow and staves, and everybody knows staves don't need more love. Thus :

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

2 - No. The different weapon types are in fact statistically balanced. Any imbalances should be resolved by adjusting the skills and resource management.

2Handers should have something to make it a tradeoff between more set pieces (DW) or another bonus (2H).
For example, as I suggested elsewhere, adding block penetration to 2Handers would greatly improve their viability.

Edit : Signature changed to spread the message.

Erock25 · October 2014

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

2 - Statistically balanced in every way but set bonuses. What statistical advantage does a 2 handed sword have over dual wield? It's not PVE DPS. It's not PVP DPS. So what is the bonus then?

Indeed. DW has over 2H 2 advantages :
- counts for 2 set pieces.
- Allows 2 weapon enchants.

I have limited experience with 2Handers, and none with DW, so can't say if the skill line makes up for those advantages. Given other player's feedback, most likely not.

However, I don't believe that making 2Handers count double for sets is the way to go. That would open the door for bow and staves, and everybody knows staves don't need more love. Thus :

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

2 - No. The different weapon types are in fact statistically balanced. Any imbalances should be resolved by adjusting the skills and resource management.

2Handers should have something to make it a tradeoff between more set pieces (DW) or another bonus (2H).
For example, as I suggested elsewhere, adding block penetration to 2Handers would greatly improve their viability.

Edit : Signature changed to spread the message.

Block penetration sounds great and all but would be useless in PVE. I also dispute that Resto staff is overly powerful anymore with the removal of its 10% dmg bonus and the addition of magicka/stam drain on other weapons heavy attacks. That leaves your main point of contention against 2 handed = 2 items in a set being that it will buff the already powerful Destruction staff. I do not believe Resto, 2h melee, and bow should suffer for one overpowered weapon set.

Holycannoli wrote: »

I was just thinking about #5 today. Star Trek Online uses a 20 hour timer which works great. It's still functionally once a day but gives you some wiggle room. With a true 24 hour timer it gets later and later until you eventually have to skip a day because you're asleep, unless you can somehow log on at the same exact time every single day without fail.

I don't want half a day but I'd love a 20 hour timer instead of 24.

Yes. Every game I've played that has any sort of daily function or rewards is always based on a 20 hour timer. I'm not sure how ZOS missed the memo.