VAMPIRES NEED LOVE

MornaBaine · October 2014

Leeric wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

As a vamp, I disagree with most of this except this one

10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.

There needs to be more consequences in game to make it more of pros/cons thing. Give vamps a special vamp only questing area for VR10+, stage 4 vamps only but make stage 4 a KoS for most towns.

That is a terrible suggestion. Stage 4 should not be KoS. Good thing you don't work for ZOS.

Okay, why shouldn't they be? Please explain.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Voodoo wrote: »

I not only agree with the undaunted but more specifically the fighters guild! I can almost see the undaunted as having a vampire amongst them since they are about exploring the deepest darkest areas of tamerial, but the fighters guild should be off limits to any vampire. Hell even throw the undaunted in there as well. Want to be a vampire? No fighters guild or undaunted for you.

And great ideas OP. I do think the vampire class is nothing more than another set of skills and thats it. Boring, and unrealistic even for a game.

So what would be your rationale for the fighter's guild rejecting vampires? I can see vampires being distrusted and rejected in general if people KNEW they were vampires... which is why it makes sense to me that the Undaunted would reject them. THEY would be able to recognize a vampire because they specialize in hunting monsters. The fighter's guild I see as being more focused on mundane threats even though, of course, they DO get involved in fighting some monsters too. I just don't see them having the expertise to spot and therefore reject the vamps. I wouldn't be against this so long as there were other balancing options for vampires to spec into. Vampires SHOULD be harder to play...but not unreasonably so.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

VAMPIRES NEED LOVE

2. Kick us out of the Undaunted. There is no way this rollicking group of monster hunters is going to let A MONSTER be part of their brotherhood. You want to be a vampire? No Undaunted skill line for you! The only caveat here is that vampires SHOULD have their own Persuade and Intimidate abilities. Why? Because they're VAMPIRES! What could be more terrifyingly intimidating or hypnotically persuasive? In addition, the Undaunted should be actively HOSTILE towards vampires. And as experienced monster hunters, yes they should know what you are! So you can't buy them drinks! If you try to talk to them, they should insult you. If you're Stage 4, they should actually attack you!

This right here will not work for the sheer fact that the Undaunted deals with doing dungeons. Being a part of the Undaunted will allow us to access to daily dungeon quests in the coming updates. This suggestion would mean they'd have to rework the entirety of the system just to allow vampire players to participate in the upcoming content.

Not going to happen.

BUT I would be completely OK with being booted out of the Fighter's guild. Especially if the Vampire skill line gave us a passive to replace Intimidate. Like Hypnotize or Dominate or some sh!t. That'd be pretty awesome.

So swap being kicked from the Undaunted for being kicked from the Fighter's Guild and the idea could work. And make it around a certain rank of vampire...say you hit Vampire 8 and by that point you've completed all the Fighter's Guild story line, you have a brief dialogue with whoever's running the show and they're all like:

"You've helped us so much blah blah blah, but you've become a monster. You have 2 choices, leave peacefully and never again show your face in our halls or we will hunt you to the ends of Tamriel. blah blah blah."

Anyhow that's just my 2 cents.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Cody wrote: »

This obviously explains why 75% of the population in PvP is a vampire. its so bad that almost everyone uses it.

vampires do not need "love" in my opinion. They do fine as it is. the batswarm spam is insane, you get alot of magicka regain, increased movement speed in stealth, and the only trade off, is for a weakness to fire, which can easily be mitigated by fire resistance enchantments, or rolling a dunmer.

I walk around with about a little less than1500 fire resist and I still die pretty fast to all the impulse spam talon spam standard spam monkey's in Cryodil.

Sooooo granted my guy's not a dunmer but still. Unless you're foregoing meaningful enchants on your jewelry in place of ALL fire resist glyphs, not worth mentioning the "easily" mitigated fire weakness.

Vizier · October 2014

Don't want much do you...

I saw some good ideas like kicking Vamps out of Undaunted. I'd take that further and also kick them from the Fighters and Mages guilds. Maybe give them a "detect life" to offset the loss of mage light or something.

I wouldn't give them any special invisibility. No sense in giving more incentive for sneaky /cloaky types outside of NB class. Get your Rogue Fix as a NB or don't get it at all IMO.

The suggestions for appearance and KOS from guards is good. I'd even like to see Vamps be able to buy, sell and repair from Vampire Strongholds like Rivenspire to offset not being able to go into towns between Vamp 2-4. Next Step is to make KOS from Fighters Guild members with points put into Vampire Hunter class. (if i was King for a day that's how I'd make it.)

Super Speed- No. You have the removal speed limitations for sneak. That's enough IMO. At best I would put in some kind of magika based haste spell that is short term, doesn't work in sneak or increase attack speeds.

The Speed Buff did have PvP ramifications and as much as I wanted to get the super speed buffs on my Vamp,(They nerfed the stacking of NS with Vamp passive before I leveled to it) I think it's better it was removed. I really was looking forward to running down Sorcs or deserters trying to stay alive by running when almost dead.

Sleepers...shrug. If they do great. If they don't meh. Look at it this way. Consider there are people sleeping in their beds buy you can't enter their homes because you weren't invited in. Just tying to help with the RP.

Illusion....If it's only for stage 1 vamps I don't have a problem with it. That would basically limit it to RP purposes which is cool IMO.

Vamp Stages should be 12 to 24 hour cycles with an option for less if someone is trying to speed their way to vamp 4.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Kicking players out of the Undaunted would seal them off from a whole section of game content.

However, seeing as there have been NO announcements to expand upon the Fighter's Guild skill and story line, Fighter's Guild would be a better choice to be excommunicated from.

If you watched the QuakeCon video or read the notes from the Guild Summit, there will be daily dungeon running quests available with loot and XP as reward through the Undaunted. There will also be special bits of gear that you receive from participating in these types of quests. IE: The helmets and pauldron sets that feature a slain boss monster's head.

Kicking vampire players out of a skill line that has had confirmed plans for expansion would be far too negative.

It's basically saying, "Oh do you like running dungeons and getting cool rewards for doing so? Oh well, sucks for you, you're a vampire. No content for you!"

MornaBaine · October 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

In Short..

nerf batswarm, its too strong in every aspect and better than almost every class ultimate for any situation.

buff the rest of the vampire line.

I'd actually be okay with that.

MornaBaine · October 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kicking players out of the Undaunted would seal them off from a whole section of game content.

However, seeing as there have been NO announcements to expand upon the Fighter's Guild skill and story line, Fighter's Guild would be a better choice to be excommunicated from.

If you watched the QuakeCon video or read the notes from the Guild Summit, there will be daily dungeon running quests available with loot and XP as reward through the Undaunted. There will also be special bits of gear that you receive from participating in these types of quests. IE: The helmets and pauldron sets that feature a slain boss monster's head.

Kicking vampire players out of a skill line that has had confirmed plans for expansion would be far too negative.

It's basically saying, "Oh do you like running dungeons and getting cool rewards for doing so? Oh well, sucks for you, you're a vampire. No content for you!"

Well drat. For lore purposes it really DOES make more sense to be kicked from the Undaunted rather than the fighter's guild but I can totally see what people are saying. I GUESS if ZoS wanted to be cheap about it vamps could just get kicked from fighter's guild instead. Of course what would be MUCH cooler would be a work around quest where you either get to join another comparable group that opens up the same access to content or a set of trials to prove to the Undaunted that you are not "really" a monster despite your "unfortunate condition" and maybe Emeric can put in a good word for you. LOL

timidobserver · October 2014

As long as Batswarm is OP in PVP, any mention of buffing the other mediocre things about vampire will be met with rage.

MercyKilling · October 2014

Vampires need love.......if by "love" you mean a swift beheading followed by complete immolation...sure! I can get behind that!

Thudunblundur · October 2014

The perception most seem to have of vampires is beautiful teenagers with angst.

Oh no. Really, oh no.

Have your plusses, but fry if you go into daylight. Rank 4 Vamps should look really really ugly and twisted. The modern vampire we see on tv is just a dismal watered down piece of rubbish designed to be shown before the watershed or with a kiddie acceptable rating. You want to be a vampire, BE a vampire, without the corporate prettification.

Oh and add Stake through the Heart to the Fighters Guild line (instead of the trap which seems no use at present): When a Vampire is knocked down this skill can be applied and is a one shot kill. Could be a cool animation too

Natjur · October 2014

I think Vampires need more negativity sides.
Both Vampires and werewolfs need to have balance so everyone is not forced to be one or the other to get the best out of their toon.

A normal toon should be balanced, and a vampire\werewolf positive traits should be balanced out with the negative.

At the moment, the vampires has way more positive then negative, which is why so many players are vampires. Sure, a lot are getting cured of vampirism for end game instances cause even with fire resistance, vampire get hit for more fire damage and a few vampires are not wanted in vet arena runs cause they get one shotted. But for leveling a toon, being a vampire makes it easy mode.

I guess when the 'bounty' system comes in place and vampires (stage 2-4) are attacked, then maybe it will be balanced, but for now, vampires are way more powerful then non-vampires.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Natjur wrote: »

I think Vampires need more negativity sides.
I guess when the 'bounty' system comes in place and vampires (stage 2-4) are attacked, then maybe it will be balanced, but for now, vampires are way more powerful then non-vampires.

Vampire is negative enough, I've said it before and I've said it again, if they up'd the cost of Bat Swarm to be on par with other Ultimates (WHICH THEY ARE DOING! err well in the sense that they're completely revamping how Ultimate Gain works so it's balanced between burst DPS and High Damage DoT builds ) or nerfed ultimate gain/reduction stacking, you wouldn't see so many bat swarms.

This whole "nerfing of abilities and classes because they're imbalanced in PvP" sh!ts gotta stop. Game after game, the loudest complainers are the PvP crowd. It's the truth, not an insult, not a flame, not a troll or mean comment that gets taken away by ZOS because it's not nice and happy and warm fuzzy. It's the truth. We are the loudest whiners in the gaming world. And as with everything else, the nail that sticks out the most, get's hammered.

Also, where are you getting this information that vampires in Stages 2 through 4 are going to be attacked when the bounty system comes out? Did you read that somewhere? (Not trying to be an @ss, seriously curious) If so can you post the link, I'd love to read it

And no kidding vampires are more powerful than non-vampires - THEY'RE VAMPIRES!

All the people raging about vampires being OP clearly aren't using Silver Bolts or Camouflaged Hunter as they pretty much one-shot vampires in Cyrodiil.

The tools are there to stop Vampires in their tracks. They're just not commonly used because it requires the use of those 2 skills that don't do as much damage to non-Vampires. Gaming should require work, not 1 button works for all. There's not much skill involved in running into a crowd and hitting 1-2 attacks over and over until that entire crowd is dead. That's just sloppy. Effective, but sloppy.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Thudunblundur wrote: »

The perception most seem to have of vampires is beautiful teenagers with angst.

Oh no. Really, oh no.

Have your plusses, but fry if you go into daylight. Rank 4 Vamps should look really really ugly and twisted. The modern vampire we see on tv is just a dismal watered down piece of rubbish designed to be shown before the watershed or with a kiddie acceptable rating. You want to be a vampire, BE a vampire, without the corporate prettification.

Oh and add Stake through the Heart to the Fighters Guild line (instead of the trap which seems no use at present): When knocked down this skill can be applied to a Vampire and is a one shot kill. Could be a cool animation too

My personal feeling is that the best place to draw inspiration for vampires is from folklore, and not just Eastern European folklore either. MANY cultures have traditions of beautiful female vampires (indeed some of these cultures do not have a male equivalent interestingly enough) so saying that the image of an eternally young and beautiful person is a product of modern American movies is ALSO incorrect. But even given that, what ESO should be focusing on is vampire "lore" as presented by the single player ES games, which also gave us plenty of attractive vampires...ones we could PLAY even.

On the other hand, vampires "frying in daylight" IS strictly a movie convention which was introduced with that classic, Nosferatu. PRIOR to that there is no folklore NOR any literature that states that vampires burn in the sun. At worst, they are simply WEAKER during daylight and do not come into the fullness of their supernatural powers until after dark. Happily, ESO HAS taken its cue from that, though I would be pleased if they made the differences between day and night on vampires more extreme. So long as, of course, vampires suffered no ill effects while in dungeons or indoors, where they are protected from sunlight.

All that said, I DO believe that Stage 4 vampires SHOULD LOOK MONSTROUS. This stage represents a STARVING VAMPIRE. It SHOULD be terrifying. And it should DEFINITELY get a reaction from the NPCs!

Vampires are already routinely one-shotted with fire, we don't need additional ways to be easily killed. I think the jury is still out on the "terrible OP-ness" of Bat Swarm as well.

Natjur · October 2014

@WraithAzraiel My comments is not about PVP balance. My comment was about the dev's back in beta said they would keep vampires and werewolf's balanced so they were not the 'must have' skill line.

They said their 'plan' was to have the negatives of those skills lines balance the positives of the skill line to make a 'normal' toon just as wanted as the vampire toon. Currently that is not the case. Ever one of my toons I used vampire skill line to level from 16 to V14 (at which point I dropped it)

The vampire skill line makes leveling easy and anyone not taking the vampire skill level for leveling is just making it a little harder for themselves.

All the 'extras' you want added, will make the vampire skill line a must have again and you might as well change the game to be called Vampires online as everyone will be one, which is stupid

MornaBaine · October 2014

Natjur wrote: »

I think Vampires need more negativity sides.
Both Vampires and werewolfs need to have balance so everyone is not forced to be one or the other to get the best out of their toon.

A normal toon should be balanced, and a vampire\werewolf positive traits should be balanced out with the negative.

At the moment, the vampires has way more positive then negative, which is why so many players are vampires. Sure, a lot are getting cured of vampirism for end game instances cause even with fire resistance, vampire get hit for more fire damage and a few vampires are not wanted in vet arena runs cause they get one shotted. But for leveling a toon, being a vampire makes it easy mode.

I guess when the 'bounty' system comes in place and vampires (stage 2-4) are attacked, then maybe it will be balanced, but for now, vampires are way more powerful then non-vampires.

My character became a vampire at 23 and I have not noticed leveling to be really much easier with her than I have with my alts that are not vamps but some of which are also mages. Since I play both vamps and non-vamps I can certainly see that vamps have some nice strengths but I really have not at all felt that she is significantly more powerful than my other characters.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Natjur wrote: »

@WraithAzraiel My comments is not about PVP balance. My comment was about the dev's back in beta said they would keep vampires and werewolf's balanced so they were not the 'must have' skill line.

They said their 'plan' was to have the negatives of those skills lines balance the positives of the skill line to make a 'normal' toon just as wanted as the vampire toon. Currently that is not the case. Ever one of my toons I used vampire skill line to level from 16 to V14 (at which point I dropped it)

The vampire skill line makes leveling easy and anyone not taking the vampire skill level for leveling is just making it a little harder for themselves.

All the 'extras' you want added, will make the vampire skill line a must have again and you might as well change the game to be called Vampires online as everyone will be one, which is stupid

If every single character you have played has been a vampire then you have no basis for comparison with non-vampire characters. Go back and level a couple more toons without being a vampire and then report your findings please. Thank you.

Cody · October 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads.

It's simple marketing.
If you make an awesome class or spec or skill line (like vampirism) people will join it a lot. This greatly amplifies the number of those who later will try PvP and will just say: "wow, this is awesome in PvE and borderline overpowered in PvP, I am going to play vamp forever and also tell to my friends".

Result: instead of 70% PvP vamps we get 95% vamps, for MOAR bats spam.

I don't know man... I may want more vamps in PvP, it would make it just that much easier for me to get kills with my bolts and Hunter. It's easy enough already, but if I could get those procs on EVERYONE more or less guaranteed...

And that's not even counting FG passives and fire damage.

Easymode man.

you have no idea how wrong you are....... I envy your innocence.

Cody · October 2014

it involves your post because you want vampires to be more powerful even though they are fine as they are.

re-read the changes you want. then you may see

Thudunblundur · October 2014

You clearly know more about it than me. Fair enough

I don't understand this starving vampire at stage 4 - if they feed do they drop to rank 3? or are they just always starving?

The jury is not out on the OP-ness of Vampires though: 75%+ in Cyrodiil (EU) are Vamps (rough guesstimate). More on AD side than EP side (can't tell with DC - definitely some though) which suggests that the combat advantages outweigh the disadvantages by a large margin at present.

Edit: Thinking about it, against my OP argument is the (to me) surprising thing I found out recently - many pvpers have no Fighters Guild line. They joined for pvp only and have never bothered. Would need accurate data to know if this was the real issue behind the perceived OPness of Vampires.

Natjur · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

If every single character you have played has been a vampire then you have no basis for comparison with non-vampire characters. Go back and level a couple more toons without being a vampire and then report your findings please. Thank you.

My first two toon were without being a vampire and my last was also not a vampire.
Bat swam = best ultimate for leveling, makes things easy. Even tho leveling is not really that hard anyway, bat swam just makes things easy mode.

The only down side of being a vampire (fire resistance) is not even an issue until end game.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Natjur wrote: »

@WraithAzraiel My comments is not about PVP balance. My comment was about the dev's back in beta said they would keep vampires and werewolf's balanced so they were not the 'must have' skill line.

They said their 'plan' was to have the negatives of those skills lines balance the positives of the skill line to make a 'normal' toon just as wanted as the vampire toon. Currently that is not the case. Ever one of my toons I used vampire skill line to level from 16 to V14 (at which point I dropped it)

The vampire skill line makes leveling easy and anyone not taking the vampire skill level for leveling is just making it a little harder for themselves.

All the 'extras' you want added, will make the vampire skill line a must have again and you might as well change the game to be called Vampires online as everyone will be one, which is stupid

No where in my comment did I state that vampires needed more bonuses. I said they were negative enough.

I'm currently leveling a lowbie with my wife, neither of us have vampire and we've been over leveled for our zones since before we started Grahtwood. Leveling is FAR easier now than it was during Early Access. It's almost sad. Almost.

Are you going to call leveling with a partner easy-mode and demand it nerfed? No, because you're not a ridiculous person.

Vampire and werewolf should be playstyle choices, boons and drawbacks. The fact that they're preternatural or supernatural or whatever is part of the lore, but those who don't want to be vampire should be able to combat them easily, as is prevailent with Silver Shards and Camouflaged Hunter.

The main problem is no one wants to use those abilities because they have 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, killing vampires/werewolves/daedra.

To that end, I would LOVE to see them add a skill line for Monster Hunter, that gave you the same passives as either Vampire or Werewolf. So you were equipped to combat those players on a level playing field.

But the idea of nerfing just rubs me the wrong way.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Cody wrote: »

it involves your post because you want vampires to be more powerful even though they are fine as they are.

re-read the changes you want. then you may see

Actually the ONLY change I have asked for that MIGHT make vampires "more powerful" is the invisibility. The out-of-combat-speed doesn't affect PvP but can be argued but I say that only because it has been, to death and undeath and beyond. Absolutely everything else I have proposed either makes life harder for vampires or is mere cosmetic and/or just for fun fluff. And yes, I DID re-read my post just to make sure.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Natjur wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

If every single character you have played has been a vampire then you have no basis for comparison with non-vampire characters. Go back and level a couple more toons without being a vampire and then report your findings please. Thank you.

My first two toon were without being a vampire and my last was also not a vampire.
Bat swam = best ultimate for leveling, makes things easy. Even tho leveling is not really that hard anyway, bat swam just makes things easy mode.

The only down side of being a vampire (fire resistance) is not even an issue until end game.

Then I'm guessing you use it a lot more often than me. Of course I use it in Cyrodil but even with all 3 pieces of jewelry being fire resist I still ALSO regularly get ashed so I'm thinking there some pretty even odds there as well.

MornaBaine · October 2014

Thudunblundur wrote: »

You clearly know more about it than me. Fair enough

I don't understand this starving vampire at stage 4 - if they feed do they drop to rank 3? or are they just always starving?

The jury is not out on the OP-ness of Vampires though: 75%+ in Cyrodiil (EU) are Vamps (rough guesstimate). More on AD side than EP side (can't tell with DC - definitely some though) which suggests that the combat advantages outweigh the disadvantages by a large margin at present.

Yes, if a stage 4 vampire feeds it returns to stage 3 and if a stage 3 feeds it returns to stage 2, etc. Stage 1 lasts a mere half hour for no logical reason I have been able to determine. Stages 2 and 3 are an hour long each. With each stage the vampire's appearance becomes more bestial and frightening. It is my belief that the length of the first 3 initial stages needs to be drastically lengthened and that Stage 4 should actually have adverse consequences. This change alone would probably cause a very sharp reduction of vampires in Cyrodil if the percentages you quote could be verified to be accurate. Then maybe folks could turn their attention to the "stick and skirt" crowd out there and the next round of nerfs could begin.

Natjur · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Then I'm guessing you use it a lot more often than me. Of course I use it in Cyrodil but even with all 3 pieces of jewelry being fire resist I still ALSO regularly get ashed so I'm thinking there some pretty even odds there as well.

PVP is a different story. I was talking about PVE leveling. Even at the fire resistance cap, vampires still take 50% more damage then a non vampire also at the fire resistance cap.

Lots complain about vampire's in Cyrodil but there is also a lot of ways to take down a vampire in Cyrodil. Ex-emperor vampire zerg groups, that's a different story, so I was trying to keep PVP out of it as PVP in general needs a lot of work.

Re-reading the OP, the 'fuff' ideas cause no harm, but any skill changes (no matter how small) I just want to make sure the dev's test it a lot so vampires don't become the 'must have' skill line.

Thudunblundur · October 2014

If vampires don't have invisibility, what is this thing they do where they cannot be seen, cannot be targeted, and rush around at very high speed doing damage? Also, speed is very important in combat: If you have the edge in speed, you control the range to a considerable extent. Controlling the range is HUGE in combat: ask any martial artist or fencer!

Edit: The Fighters Guild line skill I use most often is Turn Undead. It works very well, AND has a pretty decent bonus against non-undead. Silver shards is a 1:20 one shot kill I believe - have to say it doesn't feel like that. But perception is a funny thing and maybe it is.

MornaBaine · October 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

I think Vampires need more negativity sides.
I guess when the 'bounty' system comes in place and vampires (stage 2-4) are attacked, then maybe it will be balanced, but for now, vampires are way more powerful then non-vampires.

Vampire is negative enough, I've said it before and I've said it again, if they up'd the cost of Bat Swarm to be on par with other Ultimates (WHICH THEY ARE DOING! err well in the sense that they're completely revamping how Ultimate Gain works so it's balanced between burst DPS and High Damage DoT builds ) or nerfed ultimate gain/reduction stacking, you wouldn't see so many bat swarms.

This whole "nerfing of abilities and classes because they're imbalanced in PvP" sh!ts gotta stop. Game after game, the loudest complainers are the PvP crowd. It's the truth, not an insult, not a flame, not a troll or mean comment that gets taken away by ZOS because it's not nice and happy and warm fuzzy. It's the truth. We are the loudest whiners in the gaming world. And as with everything else, the nail that sticks out the most, get's hammered.

Also, where are you getting this information that vampires in Stages 2 through 4 are going to be attacked when the bounty system comes out? Did you read that somewhere? (Not trying to be an @ss, seriously curious) If so can you post the link, I'd love to read it

And no kidding vampires are more powerful than non-vampires - THEY'RE VAMPIRES!

All the people raging about vampires being OP clearly aren't using Silver Bolts or Camouflaged Hunter as they pretty much one-shot vampires in Cyrodiil.

The tools are there to stop Vampires in their tracks. They're just not commonly used because it requires the use of those 2 skills that don't do as much damage to non-Vampires. Gaming should require work, not 1 button works for all. There's not much skill involved in running into a crowd and hitting 1-2 attacks over and over until that entire crowd is dead. That's just sloppy. Effective, but sloppy.

I love you. Have my vampire babies.

I could not possibly agree with any of your points above more. I would ALSO really love to know if there is ANY truth to the Stage 2-4 auto-attackable-with-bounty-system comment. Thus far I have seen nothing of the kind being mentioned by any official source.

But I especially wanted to comment on this:

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

The tools are there to stop Vampires in their tracks. They're just not commonly used because it requires the use of those 2 skills that don't do as much damage to non-Vampires. Gaming should require work, not 1 button works for all. There's not much skill involved in running into a crowd and hitting 1-2 attacks over and over until that entire crowd is dead. That's just sloppy. Effective, but sloppy.

I keep saying this over and over. "Balanced" does not mean that every single player has a 50-50 chance of killing every single other player. And "balanced" most certainly does not not mean the installation of an "I win" button on your personal keyboard. "Balanced" means there are going to be builds that own you consistently and other builds that YOU will own consistently. You certainly CAN build a vampire killer and plenty of people are doing it. And if you choose NOT to make the investment necessary to be one, odds are a vampire IS going to take you down. Ergo, vampire killers have a lot of value. But they also have weaknesses against OTHER types of players. And THAT is how it is SUPPOSED to be. THAT is why you need a team. "Balanced" means a TEAM with strengths against a wide array of builds, including vampire. It's really NOT that hard to figure out.

Shunravi · October 2014

Cody wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads.

It's simple marketing.
If you make an awesome class or spec or skill line (like vampirism) people will join it a lot. This greatly amplifies the number of those who later will try PvP and will just say: "wow, this is awesome in PvE and borderline overpowered in PvP, I am going to play vamp forever and also tell to my friends".

Result: instead of 70% PvP vamps we get 95% vamps, for MOAR bats spam.

I don't know man... I may want more vamps in PvP, it would make it just that much easier for me to get kills with my bolts and Hunter. It's easy enough already, but if I could get those procs on EVERYONE more or less guaranteed...

And that's not even counting FG passives and fire damage.

Easymode man.

you have no idea how wrong you are....... I envy your innocence.

Meh, I kill vamps easier than non-vamps. I have not died to a batswarm in a long time.

Then again, I 1v1 DKs and Temps on my Nightblade. So maybe I'm just good at working with the game mechanics.

So, yes, more vamps for me to turn into a smoking pile would be nice pls. Have you tried the fighters guild? If not, I pity your ignorance.

Thudunblundur · October 2014

"Ergo, vampire killers have a lot of value. But they also have weaknesses against OTHER types of players. And THAT is how it is SUPPOSED to be. THAT is why you need a team."

In Cyrodiil as it stands at present, I use Silver Shards, Turn Undead and Camo Hunter against AD. When fighting EP it is nowhere near as effective, so I use Lethal Arrow (? I think that's it - the 1.8 second induction one) Mass Hysteria and Piercing Mark respectively instead. Doesn't take long to replace 3 skills.