Huntler wrote: »

Don't know what you guys are saying. When thornblade first came out that was the server to fight on. Eventually EP was getting trounced and ganged up on and all the other reasons some people came up with.... suddenly Chillrend went from nothing to all EP. Yeah such a coincidence *eyeroll*, some of us switched to Chillrend to follow the people, then DC decided it was high time to get to Chillrend and we all know what happened from there....


Some people have short memories, chillrend started as an EP buff server, that is a fact... do we really have such cognitive dissonance to forget that? Agrippa do I need to go back through your posts because I am damn sure you posted about it and how you refused to move to Chillrend like the rest of EP searching for buffs.

I'm not claiming everyone did, but EP as a whole definitely turned Chillrend into a buff server and the idea that an entire alliance just thinks buff servers are abhorrent is ridiculous. Hell we have EP guilds complaining night and day how they don't have one.... but also think they are abhorrent O.o

AoE Target Cap Updates

Eric recognized the current meta of stacking in AoE and distributing damage throughout your group. This isn’t the gameplay ZOS wants, they want large groups of abilities to be vulnerable to AoE and afraid of AoE. Some important concerns to consider with increasing the AoE cap are:

Effect on Ultimate generation
Application of secondary effects (stuns, CCs)
Additional server load
Effects on PvE balance

The solution ZOS is currently considering involves healing remaining capped at 6 targets, but AoE damage being unlimited in the number of targets it can affect, but subjecting that damage to a damage falloff effect where as an AoE hits more and more targets the damage dealt to additional targets decreases by some scaled percentage.

Armitas wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

As a EP player in a small guild, I have remained loyal to my campaign in Chillrend. It's a drag never having any keeps, but it's funny that my kill:death ratio is something like 100:1. Same with the rest of us loyals who've stuck with Chillrend. Fighting in such a vastly outnumbered crucible has forged us into much better players overall. If they ever get rid of buff servers, it's going to be fun listening to the tears of the zerglings.

Yep I have grown far more on Chillrend than I have anywhere else. Not just in personal skill but strategy as well. Being forced to fight greater numbers makes you better no doubt. I'm also making a killing in AP, nearly half a level in a day on some occasions. I hate everything about a buff server but I can't deny this has been a great opportunity for me.

I also helps being about to see your enemy and have higher than10fps.

Lfehova wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

effinshiddy wrote: »

AoE should not be upped in any fashion. we started with unlimited and what happened? people left in droves form the insanity of small groups farming the *** out of 100 man armies.

the only people crying about the AoE caps are either new (to this game or MMOs in general) or are the ones who abused it so badly that no one wanted to play this pvp.

we are STILL plagued with problems of spammed 5-hit AoEs and the groups who melt people with it capped. we FINALLY just saw the end of the mindless bolt-stun sorcs that could level entire armies of foes. no game has ever successfully implemented unlimited AoE and been fun (and STAYED fun) in large scale pvp.

this issue needs to die already...but of course the heads of the big guilds are mostly the AP farmers who abuse these sort of tactics (coupled with oils, swarms, pulsars, etc) and they're the ones representing us?

it will be an absolute shame to see this game get catered to those people when the market and the longevity of the game is wildly more dependent on the casuals, part timers, and small guilded friend groups. i say this as a player IN a LARGE PvP guild who has been gaming in MMOs for more than 2 decades who spends almost every (sad) waking hour on this game atm. the restrictions are not breaking this game for anyone but a measly few and their removal will only allow these small powerful groups the ability to wipe others and farm AP faster. which sounds great from a nearsighted perspective but i'm still fighting to see this game last...

I'd say the people complaining about AoE caps mostly played DAOC, which had far superior PvP because it didn't have AoE Caps, and also the fact we saw not only Guild Wars 2 become complete crap because of Caps but this game has slowly devolved into a laggy mess because of the Caps.

Oh yea..If you're getting farmed with 100 people by the small groups..That's your own bloody fault for stacking up like baddies.

How do aoe caps cause lag? Its a serious question. I have always wondered that.

aoe caps = people group up into large groups because any attack can only hit 6 people, so it decreases your chance to get hit and allows you to heal through the damage easier. So it basically becomes big groups trying to aoe other big groups that are trying to aoe them, and that causes lag since the server has a hard time keeping up. Back before aoe caps entire zergs would get wiped out super quick by organized groups of even just 4 players. Certain emperors would be able to kill zergs by themselves with the emperor buffs. The quicker fights result in a lot less players on screen and casting spells.

That's just what I get from it.

I know everyone claims to be a programmer and have gotten a computer science degree, but I actually have and am...

Anyways, from what I can infer from my experience and what I can see. The lag is happening from the calculations when a lot of people are spamming spells in the same location.

For example, one cast of healing springs. It must calculate all hp of all players inside the healing springs. Then take the 6 lowest and apply the heal to them. Without AOE caps, it could just apply it to everybody. So instead of having a call to the database to figure out who's in range, then calculating the six people who should receive it, then modifying their health data. You could remove aoe caps. And the function would be more like, everyone in area get health. And that function would just hit everybody in the area without the added calculations.

This matters, because it appears each area has its own processor of some sort for calculations. It seems ZoS has made some architectural change on their side recently to try to combat this. As way before, a server would lag in certain locations. Now when zergballs meet, you could be in northern high rock and still lag.

Either way, you are correct about the meta of deterring zergballs as a way to reduce the lag as well. But I believe there's some data calculation and data management lag that would be alleviated as well.

But what do I know, I'm just a silly developer and I only manage the ram and memory on phones for mobile apps.

c0rp wrote: »

Healing still capped at 6 with damage unlimited targets but damage will decrease with consecutive targetting. Hmm. If it gets rid of zerg trains then its fine with me.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

.

Each time YOU cast your favourite AoE dmg or heal spell, the system makes calculations. It decides which 6 enemy/friendly can be hit/healed by your single AoE.

So lets say this fact "X"

As you in bombsquad, and as enemy group doing the same;

24X x (spam factor) + 24Y x (spam factor)

Result is tons of lag

Yep. And it's not the server lagging, its the code lagging to make that decision, because even split second delays manifest in-game.

The servers can handle plenty more players than are on, but you cannot handle badly optimized code.

Manoekin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

effinshiddy wrote: »

AoE should not be upped in any fashion. we started with unlimited and what happened? people left in droves form the insanity of small groups farming the *** out of 100 man armies.

the only people crying about the AoE caps are either new (to this game or MMOs in general) or are the ones who abused it so badly that no one wanted to play this pvp.

we are STILL plagued with problems of spammed 5-hit AoEs and the groups who melt people with it capped. we FINALLY just saw the end of the mindless bolt-stun sorcs that could level entire armies of foes. no game has ever successfully implemented unlimited AoE and been fun (and STAYED fun) in large scale pvp.

this issue needs to die already...but of course the heads of the big guilds are mostly the AP farmers who abuse these sort of tactics (coupled with oils, swarms, pulsars, etc) and they're the ones representing us?

it will be an absolute shame to see this game get catered to those people when the market and the longevity of the game is wildly more dependent on the casuals, part timers, and small guilded friend groups. i say this as a player IN a LARGE PvP guild who has been gaming in MMOs for more than 2 decades who spends almost every (sad) waking hour on this game atm. the restrictions are not breaking this game for anyone but a measly few and their removal will only allow these small powerful groups the ability to wipe others and farm AP faster. which sounds great from a nearsighted perspective but i'm still fighting to see this game last...

I'd say the people complaining about AoE caps mostly played DAOC, which had far superior PvP because it didn't have AoE Caps, and also the fact we saw not only Guild Wars 2 become complete crap because of Caps but this game has slowly devolved into a laggy mess because of the Caps.

Oh yea..If you're getting farmed with 100 people by the small groups..That's your own bloody fault for stacking up like baddies.

How do aoe caps cause lag? Its a serious question. I have always wondered that.

aoe caps = people group up into large groups because any attack can only hit 6 people, so it decreases your chance to get hit and allows you to heal through the damage easier. So it basically becomes big groups trying to aoe other big groups that are trying to aoe them, and that causes lag since the server has a hard time keeping up. Back before aoe caps entire zergs would get wiped out super quick by organized groups of even just 4 players. Certain emperors would be able to kill zergs by themselves with the emperor buffs. The quicker fights result in a lot less players on screen and casting spells.

That's just what I get from it.

I know everyone claims to be a programmer and have gotten a computer science degree, but I actually have and am...

Anyways, from what I can infer from my experience and what I can see. The lag is happening from the calculations when a lot of people are spamming spells in the same location.

For example, one cast of healing springs. It must calculate all hp of all players inside the healing springs. Then take the 6 lowest and apply the heal to them. Without AOE caps, it could just apply it to everybody. So instead of having a call to the database to figure out who's in range, then calculating the six people who should receive it, then modifying their health data. You could remove aoe caps. And the function would be more like, everyone in area get health. And that function would just hit everybody in the area without the added calculations.

This matters, because it appears each area has its own processor of some sort for calculations. It seems ZoS has made some architectural change on their side recently to try to combat this. As way before, a server would lag in certain locations. Now when zergballs meet, you could be in northern high rock and still lag.

Either way, you are correct about the meta of deterring zergballs as a way to reduce the lag as well. But I believe there's some data calculation and data management lag that would be alleviated as well.

But what do I know, I'm just a silly developer and I only manage the ram and memory on phones for mobile apps.

I'm just an outsider's POV when it comes to stuff like this.

Don't care about buff servers. EP just isn't coordinated enough to take and hold one.

Or perhaps the current guild leadership in EP finds the concept abhorrent and refuses to attempt to perpetuate it? GoS failed to hold or retake Bow because they received no help, not because we didn't like GoS -- nothing but respect for them -- but because we dislike the idea vehemently.

Hijinx left Chillrend because we didn't want it to turn into a buff server, and went to help the server that needed it more. Alas, EG and NM had different ideas, and it is now a buff campaign.

Yes, the faction without a buff server finds it appalling and just doesn't want the buffs because it isn't right. Come on man. Chillrend WAS the EP buff server, so I don't know what you're talking about. It used to pop lock before Thorn for EP until DC rolled in and smashed you guys. It's not an unfair advantage, it's an earned advantage.

Chillrend never was the EP buff server, Bow of Shadows was until DC claimed it. Chillrend was Dawnbreaker's guilds moving to the new campaign structure. Several Thornblade guilds moved over near the end of the first 2 week period and flipped the map red.

There'd been multiple gentleman's agreements between the Dawnbreaker guilds (EHJ, TKO, Hijinx) to NOT night/day cap to excess. The Thornblade guilds would not adhere to the agreement and turned the server into a pile of garbage. They night capped it red and then TKO and EHJ double teamed EP into the dirt during prime time. Hijinx left during this period after attempting multiple times to get EP to adhere to the old agreements, without success. Thornblade was in the last week of its first 30 day cycle when this happened.

EP still won the first two two week cycles of Chillrend. When EG and NM moved to the server, ostensibly to chase the EP from Thorn back, they stayed even after the EP left and chased the remaining AD off the server too.

I am fairly certain I know exactly what I'm talking about here, having been a participant in the events.

So, because you don't like that EP was turning it into a buff server means it wasn't a buff server? Stop being stupid. A buff server is a buff server, and EP tried to use Chillrend as a buff server. Whether you wanted that or not doesn't change the fact. No one gives a *** about dawnbreaker. A "gentleman's agreement" in pvp is the funniest load of *** I've heard in a LONG time.

Simple fact: EP doesn't deserve buffs because they can't get buffs.

Stop whining about it, and if you don't care show me that you don't rather than trying to argue.

Nala_ wrote: »

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

Follow Up (passive) – this new passive replaces Arcane Fighter and now increases the damage of fully charged Heavy Attacks by 5/10%.

DO NOT REPLACE ARCANE FIGHTER, either add follow up to the already existing talent or DONT remove it. its actually a good talent that a lot of people have builds around, please dont replace it with some useless heavy attack with a 2h talent.

Pixysticks wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

Follow Up (passive) – this new passive replaces Arcane Fighter and now increases the damage of fully charged Heavy Attacks by 5/10%.

DO NOT REPLACE ARCANE FIGHTER, either add follow up to the already existing talent or DONT remove it. its actually a good talent that a lot of people have builds around, please dont replace it with some useless heavy attack with a 2h talent.

Yeap...I'm trying to spread the word on that as well..That is the absolute worst thing you can do to 2 hander line..It is one of the best passives in the game

This. Please spread the word to not remove Arcane Fighter, just merge it with the new talent like he suggested.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Midway through the 2nd week of the first cycle WCFC and (later after that) IR came over. That's when Thornblade population of EP dropped precipitously.