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PvP: Load Balancing vs. "Play with your friends"
onlinegamer1
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The fact that players can choose their own PvP Campaign has led to one over-filled Campaign, and the rest desolate wastelands. ZoS's explanation for this was "We want to let people play with friends/guildmates." So, it seems ZoS has chosen that over balance. As if they are mutually exclusive.
They are not.
ZoS should implement a PvP Queue system, like, oh, say, every single other MMORPG in existence. There should be two VERY SIMPLE options for queuing:
- Solo Queue (you cannot be grouped to click this option)
- Queue with Guild (you must select one of your Guilds from a dropdown)
The way it would work:
First, you queue before the "season" starts. i.e. before the 30 days, 14 days, or 7 days begins.
Then, on the day the campaign starts, the game is going to place you into a campaign based on population balance. The only difference is how big you are considered to be for that calculation:
- Solo Queued: self-explanatory - you are 1 person
- Guild Queued: the game simply looks at all other guild members in the same guild as you who ALSO picked Guild queue, and ALSO picked the same guild as you to queue with.
Example:
- you are in 5 guilds, you select guild "ABC" to queue with
- 100 people are online in Guild "ABC". 10 of them queue for PvP, but 5 of them choose OTHER guilds to queue with, and 5 choose to queue with "ABC" guild.
- Therefore the game considers you as a group of 6 for balance purposes, and places you all in the same Campaign.
Further queuing:
- Guild Queue: once your guild is in a campaign, anyone else who "Guild Queues" for the same guild during that campaign "season" is placed in the same campaign. This isn't perfect, but its reasonable. If you want to queue for a different campaign, then obviously, just queue solo or queue with a different guild.
Ramifications:
- Clearly, this means there has to be at least 3 campaigns of each type, so that the game can load balance, but you still can choose your preference - 30 day, 7 day, Non-Vet, etc.
Feedback welcome.
EDIT: updated
Edited by onlinegamer1 on October 1, 2014 5:40PM They are not.
ZoS should implement a PvP Queue system, like, oh, say, every single other MMORPG in existence. There should be two VERY SIMPLE options for queuing:
- Solo Queue (you cannot be grouped to click this option)
- Queue with Guild (you must select one of your Guilds from a dropdown)
The way it would work:
First, you queue before the "season" starts. i.e. before the 30 days, 14 days, or 7 days begins.
Then, on the day the campaign starts, the game is going to place you into a campaign based on population balance. The only difference is how big you are considered to be for that calculation:
- Solo Queued: self-explanatory - you are 1 person
- Guild Queued: the game simply looks at all other guild members in the same guild as you who ALSO picked Guild queue, and ALSO picked the same guild as you to queue with.
Example:
- you are in 5 guilds, you select guild "ABC" to queue with
- 100 people are online in Guild "ABC". 10 of them queue for PvP, but 5 of them choose OTHER guilds to queue with, and 5 choose to queue with "ABC" guild.
- Therefore the game considers you as a group of 6 for balance purposes, and places you all in the same Campaign.
Further queuing:
- Guild Queue: once your guild is in a campaign, anyone else who "Guild Queues" for the same guild during that campaign "season" is placed in the same campaign. This isn't perfect, but its reasonable. If you want to queue for a different campaign, then obviously, just queue solo or queue with a different guild.
Ramifications:
- Clearly, this means there has to be at least 3 campaigns of each type, so that the game can load balance, but you still can choose your preference - 30 day, 7 day, Non-Vet, etc.
Feedback welcome.
EDIT: updated
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »- Guild Queue: once your guild is in a campaign, anyone else who queues for the same guild is placed in the same campaign. This isn't perfect, but its reasonable. If you want to queue for a different campaign, then obviously, just queue solo or queue group, or queue with a different guild.
Ramifications:
- Clearly, this means there has to be at least 2-3 campaigns of each type, so that the game can load balance, but you still can choose your preference - 30 day, 7 day, Non-Vet, etc.
Feedback welcome.
What about if someone in my guild is PvPing with a toon from a different faction? Will they still be in the same campaign?
And are you saying that this should eliminate the need to set a "Home" campaign?
How will this affect leaderboards? If I queue as "solo" 5 days in a row, what are the chances that I will end up in the same campaign?
What if I want to PvE? Should I be able to choose a campaign that is friendlier to my alliance so I can travel around a bit more easily? I know the PvP folks frown on PvE in Cyrodiil, but there is tons of it and it's lots of fun!The Moot Councillor0 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »- Guild Queue: once your guild is in a campaign, anyone else who queues for the same guild is placed in the same campaign. This isn't perfect, but its reasonable. If you want to queue for a different campaign, then obviously, just queue solo or queue group, or queue with a different guild.
Ramifications:
- Clearly, this means there has to be at least 2-3 campaigns of each type, so that the game can load balance, but you still can choose your preference - 30 day, 7 day, Non-Vet, etc.
Feedback welcome.
What about if someone in my guild is PvPing with a toon from a different faction? Will they still be in the same campaign?
And are you saying that this should eliminate the need to set a "Home" campaign?
How will this affect leaderboards? If I queue as "solo" 5 days in a row, what are the chances that I will end up in the same campaign?
What if I want to PvE? Should I be able to choose a campaign that is friendlier to my alliance so I can travel around a bit more easily? I know the PvP folks frown on PvE in Cyrodiil, but there is tons of it and it's lots of fun!
1. It would ignore different factions, obviously, since you can't group cross-faction. And it would still honor the rule that you cannot have two characters in different factions in the same campaign. It would just become a dynamic check, not a static one.
2. Yes, the entire point is to eliminate the fixed Home and Guest idea, which has led to 1 overloaded campaign and the rest dead.
3. Leaderboards would have to be changed significantly. Perhaps the game would have one, unified universal leaderboard (cross-campaign). Then, while inside a campaign, the Leaderboard of that campaign only shows the people CURRENTLY in that campaign, and their relative ranks. So, you could be #15 on the unified leaderboard, but be #1 inside a campaign because those 14 players higher than you aren't in that campaign at that moment. If the Emp Keeps are captured in this case, then you (#15 globally, but #1 locally) are crowned Emp at that time.
4. PvE is not a consideration, its PvP.
EDIT:
Just had another idea, for another variation, which may even work better:
- You queue for a campaign at the "start" of the "Season" (season means 30 day, 7 day, etc.) You queue solo or guild only (no group queue) as I mentioned earlier.
- Once you are assigned a random campaign, you are locked in for its duration (30 days, 14 days, 7 days.)
- After the campaign ends, you are removed and must requeue again. You can choose the same queue type (solo or guild) or change. Repeat from start.
So, the effect is that you are queued at the "Start" of the campaign (or part way thru if you queue late), and the computer randomly assigns you to one which you get locked in until completion.
Now, the leaderboards, which reset each "season" can remain local, emperors work the same as they do now, etc.Edited by onlinegamer1 on October 1, 2014 5:31PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. My comment about cross-faction wasn't relating to groups, it was relating to Guilds. If a group of guildies is going in with one faction and another player in the guild decides to PvP and checks the "guild" option, but is on a different alliance toon, what would happen?
4. PvE in Cyrodiil gets no love...The Moot Councillor0 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. My comment about cross-faction wasn't relating to groups, it was relating to Guilds. If a group of guildies is going in with one faction and another player in the guild decides to PvP and checks the "guild" option, but is on a different alliance toon, what would happen?
4. PvE in Cyrodiil gets no love...
1. The game would have to consider that, and place you in a different campaign. For example, you are in "Guild XXX". The guild has AD players and DC players. Everyone chooses "Guild Queue". AD players are all randomly assigned to "Campaign A", DC players are all assigned to "Campaign B". As long as there are at least 3 campaigns, it would work fine.
4. Not saying you cannot PvE. I am saying you do so in a PvP environment. No cake walks.
EDIT: modified the OP to change my idea a bit, please re-read.Edited by onlinegamer1 on October 1, 2014 5:38PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »4. Not saying you cannot PvE. I am saying you do so in a PvP environment. No cake walks.
LOL!! Yeah, you are talking to someone who took her EP character to Chillrend (NA) to fish and do a quest that literally sends you over the entire map. No cake walks there...The Moot Councillor0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Does anybody else find it stupid that say 100,000 people can select the same campaign as their home campaign even though 1/4 of those people can actually all play at the same time???????
Would it make more sense if a campaign stopped allowing people to select it as their home campaign once it reaches the cap......and balancing equal #s for each faction?0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Does anybody else find it stupid that say 100,000 people can select the same campaign as their home campaign even though 1/4 of those people can actually all play at the same time???????
Would it make more sense if a campaign stopped allowing people to select it as their home campaign once it reaches the cap......and balancing equal #s for each faction?
Not really, since not everybody that selects a campaign is going to be in PvP 24/7. I do spend the majority of my time outside of Cyrodiil.The Moot Councillor0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Does anybody else find it stupid that say 100,000 people can select the same campaign as their home campaign even though 1/4 of those people can actually all play at the same time???????
Would it make more sense if a campaign stopped allowing people to select it as their home campaign once it reaches the cap......and balancing equal #s for each faction?
Not really, since not everybody that selects a campaign is going to be in PvP 24/7. I do spend the majority of my time outside of Cyrodiil.
But wouldn't it make sense for the selecting of a home campaign make more sense if it was capped so you simply know that when your ready to PVP there is always room for you.
ALSO not to mention that when your faction is loosing in that campaign that you yourself COULD be the difference between winning and loosing on that campaign.
Then you remove the whole guesting thing and make changing campaigns doable but not actually viable for trolling.
Maybe even show a # on the campaign before you join so you and friends can tell if theres enough room for all of you to join together or not.0 -
Braidas✭✭✭✭✭
Ya but the population right now is at the point where it really only fills up 1.5 servers at max. They should keep the system they have, but reduce pop caps to 2 bars, have only 2 thirty day campaigns + the non vet, and remove guesting. That would essentially force two balanced servers while reducing lag at the simultaneously, yw ZOS. Get on it.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Does anybody else find it stupid that say 100,000 people can select the same campaign as their home campaign even though 1/4 of those people can actually all play at the same time???????
Would it make more sense if a campaign stopped allowing people to select it as their home campaign once it reaches the cap......and balancing equal #s for each faction?
Not really, since not everybody that selects a campaign is going to be in PvP 24/7. I do spend the majority of my time outside of Cyrodiil.
But wouldn't it make sense for the selecting of a home campaign make more sense if it was capped so you simply know that when your ready to PVP there is always room for you.
ALSO not to mention that when your faction is loosing in that campaign that you yourself COULD be the difference between winning and loosing on that campaign.
Then you remove the whole guesting thing and make changing campaigns doable but not actually viable for trolling.
Maybe even show a # on the campaign before you join so you and friends can tell if theres enough room for all of you to join together or not.
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Sasky✭✭✭1. Timezones/playtime. Say one faction has a large Oceanic guild. Most of the other guilds in their 'balanced' campaign are NA. It'll be heavily unbalanced during that timeslot and that faction will be handicapped during the normal primetime.
2. Amount of PvP. If you weight someone who plays PvP once weekly or only on the weekends the same as someone who plays really only PvP, populations will become unbalanced.
If you want to put some kind of limits like this, better would be the dynamic population cap, where no faction can have more than say 1.5x the lowest population faction. I think people would go for the low population campaigns, if they didn't have to worry about someone coming in and steamrolling all the work while it had been balanced.
Currently, there's also a lock b/c of PvP buffs transferring to other PvP and even PvE. If someone starts to go after scrolls or keeps, a flood of the dominant faction will come in and stamp out any sort of a fight. Some of that may disappear with buffs not transferring to other campaigns, but as long as they go to PvE it might still be the case.0
