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Invisible Bat Swarm
Pmarsico9
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE /BEG
No debuff, nothing. Invisible. "Step out of it, baddy!"
No. I can't. Because I can't see it. Because 90% of the time I die only the recap is indicating to me what happened. Because the sorcs aren't even rendered in range of me. They are 60 meters out and I'm watching from afar. But next thing I know I'm dead. They must have ported over and both popped bat swarm. It doesn't matter.
I took to spamming Wards on myself as soon as I see anything with a red health bar in Cyrodiil. Because I never know. I can't guess when it's going to happen. It's even happened with as few as maybe 20 people total. Maybe a big battle is going off someplace else.
So I check my MS. No problem there. I check my FPS. Again, a bit low (32) but not too bad there.
No, my client simply isn't registering large scale battles at all. When I look at the continuous recaps of what killed me, most of them are batswarm.........and I know what they are doing.
Just like how they log into their Alt and drop FC's just close enough to give them the edge. I know they are macroing this. It's one button. They are all having a great time on Team Speak or Mumble. Most of them have been emperors. How skillful.
I bow to you, your majesty. Stack up in a group, stay together, port simultaneously and pop batswarm. If you cause enough actions per second, the server will lose track of you. I get it.
And the shame of it is, as EP, there's no other option. Thornblade or bust.
At this point, is Bat Swarm actually more beneficial than the grief it causes? Would it be so hard to break up this bro-fisted ***-downs of impulse spam and Bat Swarm and streak and bolt escape?
I mean it's bad enough I'm a Templar and can't get a group for my life in Craglorn...........but as I have 9 weeks left, can you just do me a favor and turn Bat Swarm off for a while? Make it Hug Swarm. Just kill it entirely for like 48 hours.
See what happens.
No debuff, nothing. Invisible. "Step out of it, baddy!"
No. I can't. Because I can't see it. Because 90% of the time I die only the recap is indicating to me what happened. Because the sorcs aren't even rendered in range of me. They are 60 meters out and I'm watching from afar. But next thing I know I'm dead. They must have ported over and both popped bat swarm. It doesn't matter.
I took to spamming Wards on myself as soon as I see anything with a red health bar in Cyrodiil. Because I never know. I can't guess when it's going to happen. It's even happened with as few as maybe 20 people total. Maybe a big battle is going off someplace else.
So I check my MS. No problem there. I check my FPS. Again, a bit low (32) but not too bad there.
No, my client simply isn't registering large scale battles at all. When I look at the continuous recaps of what killed me, most of them are batswarm.........and I know what they are doing.
Just like how they log into their Alt and drop FC's just close enough to give them the edge. I know they are macroing this. It's one button. They are all having a great time on Team Speak or Mumble. Most of them have been emperors. How skillful.
I bow to you, your majesty. Stack up in a group, stay together, port simultaneously and pop batswarm. If you cause enough actions per second, the server will lose track of you. I get it.
And the shame of it is, as EP, there's no other option. Thornblade or bust.
At this point, is Bat Swarm actually more beneficial than the grief it causes? Would it be so hard to break up this bro-fisted ***-downs of impulse spam and Bat Swarm and streak and bolt escape?
I mean it's bad enough I'm a Templar and can't get a group for my life in Craglorn...........but as I have 9 weeks left, can you just do me a favor and turn Bat Swarm off for a while? Make it Hug Swarm. Just kill it entirely for like 48 hours.
See what happens.
4
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PvP mainly consists out of charging batswarm, running into a group of people and suiciding. It's time that being a vampire comes with actual downsides instead of just theoretical ones. The fact that by far every 'good' player is a vampire is enough proof that it's more of a buff than anything.
Increasing the cost of the Ultimate and lowering the damage mitigation passive will go a long way.
Disclaimer: Been a vampire for roughly six months.Edited by Lava_Croft on September 27, 2014 10:06PM4 -
Dudis✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »PvP mainly consists out of charging batswarm, running into a group of people and suiciding. It's time that being a vampire comes with actual downsides instead of just theoretical ones. The fact that by far every 'good' player is a vampire is enough proof that it's more of a buff than anything.
Increasing the cost of the Ultimate and lowering the damage mitigation passive will go a long way.
Disclaimer: Been a vampire for roughly six months.
Could also nerf tents to discourage that sort of playstyle.1 -
ghengis_dhan✭✭✭I think what you're seeing--and it's happened to me as well--is latency from the server or internet. I've died a number of time when I only saw two other players. My death recap shows hits from more than two players. When I toggle off the death recap and spin around, I see that the group of two was actually a group five or more. But, my client UI did not display them.
This kind of stuff seems to happen more often when the campaign has all three alliance populations maxed out.
BTW...if you see a group spamming impulse and batswarm, don't bunch up. We've taken down these group before by circling them and hitting from range.Edited by ghengis_dhan on September 27, 2014 11:34PM"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Teddy Roosevelt, Paris, 19101 -
dcincali✭✭✭✭PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE /BEG
No debuff, nothing. Invisible. "Step out of it, baddy!"
No. I can't. Because I can't see it. Because 90% of the time I die only the recap is indicating to me what happened. Because the sorcs aren't even rendered in range of me. They are 60 meters out and I'm watching from afar. But next thing I know I'm dead. They must have ported over and both popped bat swarm. It doesn't matter.
I took to spamming Wards on myself as soon as I see anything with a red health bar in Cyrodiil. Because I never know. I can't guess when it's going to happen. It's even happened with as few as maybe 20 people total. Maybe a big battle is going off someplace else.
So I check my MS. No problem there. I check my FPS. Again, a bit low (32) but not too bad there.
No, my client simply isn't registering large scale battles at all. When I look at the continuous recaps of what killed me, most of them are batswarm.........and I know what they are doing.
Just like how they log into their Alt and drop FC's just close enough to give them the edge. I know they are macroing this. It's one button. They are all having a great time on Team Speak or Mumble. Most of them have been emperors. How skillful.
I bow to you, your majesty. Stack up in a group, stay together, port simultaneously and pop batswarm. If you cause enough actions per second, the server will lose track of you. I get it.
And the shame of it is, as EP, there's no other option. Thornblade or bust.
At this point, is Bat Swarm actually more beneficial than the grief it causes? Would it be so hard to break up this bro-fisted ***-downs of impulse spam and Bat Swarm and streak and bolt escape?
I mean it's bad enough I'm a Templar and can't get a group for my life in Craglorn...........but as I have 9 weeks left, can you just do me a favor and turn Bat Swarm off for a while? Make it Hug Swarm. Just kill it entirely for like 48 hours.
See what happens.
You do realize EP is one of the biggest offenders of the streak/batswarm craze right? Just throwing that out there..3 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭ghengis_dhan wrote: »I think what you're seeing--and it's happened to me as well--is latency from the server or internet. I've died a number of time when I only saw two other players. My death recap shows hits from more than two players. When I toggle off the death recap and spin around, I see that the group of two was actually a group five or more. But, my client UI did not display them.
This kind of stuff seems to happen more often when the campaign has all three alliance populations maxed out.
BTW...if you see a group spamming impulse and batswarm, don't bunch up. We've taken down these group before by circling them and hitting from range.
You don't see them bunched. They are literally right in front of you and the client is showing them 600 meters out.
You just see them away, then suddenly on top of you, then you are dead. It is completely performance and I'm not lagging.
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Monsoon✭✭✭90% of the time when I die in Cyrodiil it is to the bullsh*t batswarm+streak+firering meta. Of those almost half of it is from invisible players with bats around them that instantly appear on top of me and CC me to death.
Because of the F'ing lag silver bolts do nothing because
1) they do not fire due to lag
2) my character is CCed by the swarm and has a 3 second delay from lag
3) I die not knowing who killed me and the death recap screen is littered with "you can not do that while dead"
This has been the meta for months..run a vamp sorc and spam aoe to enemies that don t see you and can t react. 15$ a month pleaseEdited by Monsoon on September 28, 2014 12:07AM0 -
Monsoon✭✭✭You do realize AD is one of the biggest offenders of the streak/batswarm craze right? Just throwing that out there..
FTFY
Want me to link to videos demonstrating this? Or maybe you have evidence yourself to present for this? Smurfs were the first one to find out how to lag the server. Bananas too it one level higher0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭You do realize AD is one of the biggest offenders of the streak/batswarm craze right? Just throwing that out there..
FTFY
Want me to link to videos demonstrating this? Or maybe you have evidence yourself to present for this? Smurfs were the first one to find out how to lag the server. Bananas too it one level higher
The FC griefing is more egregious than BS/Impulse/StreakLOLOLOLZergball which is being allowed as a viable combat tactic.0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »PvP mainly consists out of charging batswarm, running into a group of people and suiciding. It's time that being a vampire comes with actual downsides instead of just theoretical ones. The fact that by far every 'good' player is a vampire is enough proof that it's more of a buff than anything.
Increasing the cost of the Ultimate and lowering the damage mitigation passive will go a long way.
Disclaimer: Been a vampire for roughly six months.
There's nothing theoretical about the down sides, and no, not every "good" player is a vampire.
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dcincali✭✭✭✭You do realize AD is one of the biggest offenders of the streak/batswarm craze right? Just throwing that out there..
FTFY
Want me to link to videos demonstrating this? Or maybe you have evidence yourself to present for this? Smurfs were the first one to find out how to lag the server. Bananas too it one level higher
Smurfs lagged the server with healing springs, bananas dragon leaped behind ep gates and ep has the most streak/bat groups of all.. Next..
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭90% of the time when I die in Cyrodiil it is to the bullsh*t batswarm+streak+firering meta. Of those almost half of it is from invisible players with bats around them that instantly appear on top of me and CC me to death.
Because of the F'ing lag silver bolts do nothing because
1) they do not fire due to lag
2) my character is CCed by the swarm and has a 3 second delay from lag
3) I die not knowing who killed me and the death recap screen is littered with "you can not do that while dead"
This has been the meta for months..run a vamp sorc and spam aoe to enemies that don t see you and can t react. 15$ a month please
I think you died to the zerg running over you, not vampire abilities...
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You do realize AD is one of the biggest offenders of the streak/batswarm craze right? Just throwing that out there..
FTFY
Want me to link to videos demonstrating this? Or maybe you have evidence yourself to present for this? Smurfs were the first one to find out how to lag the server. Bananas too it one level higher
True. I think the AD guild Alacrity pretty much solidified this as the go-to meta for zergs, and they use it all the time.
To be fair, it isn't a vampire issue. The problem is there is no diminishing returns for overlapping AOE, so basically you have a war of numbers, not skill.
AOE caps ensure that an inferior force cannot effect enough of the superior numbered zerg with stuns, CC, negates, etc. to break up the blob.
If they made it so the number of enemy AOE spells that hit you within a certain period caused subsequent ones to do less and less damage, to the point you were nerfing your group relying on AOE, people would abandon the zerg meta.
They should also remove AOE caps on many CC and counter-abilities to futher nerf the number advantage. Or possibly ADD an AOE cap to skills like Purge/Cleanse.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »PvP mainly consists out of charging batswarm, running into a group of people and suiciding. It's time that being a vampire comes with actual downsides instead of just theoretical ones. The fact that by far every 'good' player is a vampire is enough proof that it's more of a buff than anything.
Increasing the cost of the Ultimate and lowering the damage mitigation passive will go a long way.
Disclaimer: Been a vampire for roughly six months.
I`m not a vampire, but you called me a good player once. How comes?
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's nothing theoretical about the down sides, and no, not every "good" player is a vampire.
Here is Google's definition of "by far".Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I`m not a vampire, but you called me a good player once. How comes?
Edited by Lava_Croft on September 28, 2014 10:11AM1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Go get 2-shot by Silver Bolts then talk to me about no downsides. Vampires are not the problem. They are a symptom. They are abused because AOE is being abused.
The problem is the lack of diminishing returns on stacking AOE, and the presence of AOE caps preventing smaller numbers from having any chance to break up a zerg.
It is the people that are choosing to abuse this easy-mode train that are to blame, not vampires, not Impulse/Pulsar by itself (is that what you are calling "fire ring?"), and not Streak (which has been nerfed AGAIN to limit how many it can hit and how much ultimate it can generate, ON TOP of costing a boatload of magicka after the first cast.)
I think it is important to understand the root of the problem before pointing fingers, because ZOS is a little heavy-handed with nerfs in response to forum feedback.
We, the forum community, need to make sure we do our part to understand the feedback we are giving to make sure ZOS doesn't break things which are working fine (Night's Silence I am looking at you) in response to comments that perhaps don't have all the facts.
Edited by Phinix1 on September 28, 2014 10:33AM1 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, the once a week that happens really balances it out.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Go get 2-shot by Silver Bolts then talk to me about no downsides.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
Yeah, the once a week that happens really balances it out.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Go get 2-shot by Silver Bolts then talk to me about no downsides.
I don't play on Lagblade (Thornblade), so the PVP I engage in is actually nothing like what is described here. The most I have seen is something like 10v10, maybe 15 to 20 per team during peak hours, heavy siege attacks.
That means that there are few enough for the enemy team to notice you personally, and noticing you are a vamp, if you pose any sort of threat at all, they WILL take the time to slot Bolts on the way back from their camp.
Never encountered a zerg ball of Impulse/Bat spammers outside of Thornblade where the "elite" guilds hang out mashing their "iwin" meta at the expense of everyone's performance and enjoyment.
What further downsides are you suggesting? I mean sure, bats is an awesome ultimate, but so is Negate, Standard, Veil, Tether, etc.
Personally, I only keep vamp for the sneak speed, for the lore, and for the Devouring morph of bats which helps mostly in PVE (since players CAN see my bats.)
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the invisible bats morph, isn't it just the player that goes invisible? Aren't you still able to see the bats themselves?Edited by Phinix1 on September 28, 2014 7:02PM0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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That is correct. However, the buggy nature of ESO means that you often don't see any bats at all. This is not in any way a batswarm-only problem.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the invisible bats morph, isn't it just the player that goes invisible? Aren't you still able to see the bats themselves?
Silver Bolts is a nice skill, but the amount of stamina it requires doesn't really make it a viable option (for me). The 5% proc is also next to useless.
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Monsoon✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »...Thornblade where the "elite" guilds hang out mashing their "iwin" meta at the expense of everyone's performance and enjoyment.
THIS so much0 -
VileIntent✭✭✭✭you obviously don't know you can make a potion to see them... Alchemy is the best crafting skill everyone should level. you can even make a detection potion with crit...0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭VileIntent wrote: »you obviously don't know you can make a potion to see them... Alchemy is the best crafting skill everyone should level. you can even make a detection potion with crit...
Mana spell power detection are the best detect pots I believe.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭VileIntent wrote: »you obviously don't know you can make a potion to see them... Alchemy is the best crafting skill everyone should level. you can even make a detection potion with crit...
See what? This is a lag issue........the server's hardware cannot perform to render Bat Swarm/Impulse/Grand Healing spam in a decent amount of time or even players reliably where they actually stand.
It's not that they are invisible due to class skills or sneaking, I see them, they are a mile away, then they are on top of me and I'm dead. Literally within 5 seconds. Lag doesn't cause this, either. This is why Thornblade keeps crashing and peoples' clients keep crashing. The architecture can't handle it. The caps on how many of each faction can go in needs greatly brought down, but this raises issues with how viable Cyrodiil is in the first place because if it's brought down to a point where there's a non-empty feeling (because the zone is so massive) that ran consistently smoothly it definitely wouldn't work within the assumed vision for the zone.
What they should have done was made it so a new instance filled after one was fulled, then allowed for a 1-2% under-fill in those cases and erred on the side of performance, not population, in those cases. The whole "home campaign/guest campaign" is stupid in comparison to how many actually play the game.Edited by Pmarsico9 on September 28, 2014 9:39PM0 -
ghengis_dhan✭✭✭
I agree with your premise, but I can't see how it could be implemented fairly.What they should have done was made it so a new instance filled after one was fulled, then allowed for a 1-2% under-fill in those cases and erred on the side of performance, not population, in those cases. The whole "home campaign/guest campaign" is stupid in comparison to how many actually play the game.
What do you do about someone logging out and then back in as an alternate character in another faction so they can spy for their friends? How do you guarantee that you can even play with your friends? What about the people who play in Cyrodiil for the bonuses that apply outside Cyrodiil?"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Teddy Roosevelt, Paris, 19100 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »There's nothing theoretical about the down sides, and no, not every "good" player is a vampire.
Here is Google's definition of "by far".Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I`m not a vampire, but you called me a good player once. How comes?
My statement still stands.
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
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It takes a while to kill someone with just steak and batswarm, unless there are a lot of players. Death recap does not tell you the whole story and too many people assume that it does.
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Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭ghengis_dhan wrote: »
I agree with your premise, but I can't see how it could be implemented fairly.What they should have done was made it so a new instance filled after one was fulled, then allowed for a 1-2% under-fill in those cases and erred on the side of performance, not population, in those cases. The whole "home campaign/guest campaign" is stupid in comparison to how many actually play the game.
What do you do about someone logging out and then back in as an alternate character in another faction so they can spy for their friends? How do you guarantee that you can even play with your friends? What about the people who play in Cyrodiil for the bonuses that apply outside Cyrodiil?
1) That's happening anyway. If the campaigns were filled as needed, instead of by choice, then there's no guarantee their alt would even get into the campaign necessary, nor could their main guarantee re-entry into the same campaign. So this behavior would actually be discouraged, if not killed entirely.
2) You queue as a group. Same as now. This changes nothing, since the queue will be smart enough to know which campaign you should get into based upon numbers.
3) One can argue they shouldn't. Flat multipliers as a carrot to encourage PVP is stupid. It's one facet of the game. One that people either do or do not participate in. If you want carrots, make more Alliance-point only skill sets or make Blue, Purple, and Gold crafting materials purchasable via alliance points.0