Any Future for Nightblades? Devs contribute pls

Darthryan · September 2014

Sorry kego, u lost the argument. Get up to vr14 and go head to head against any dk and you'll see real fast that you can't win. In agroup your build is cool. Zerg feast..... its awesome. But it lacks unfortunetly. Not trying to be mean but dks just are op. Wish us nbs had a littke bit more to stand on but all dks know the truth. Its not winning or we are not emo but when there are a crap ton of threads about this issue, then maybe, just maybe we need to be compensated. I have recently rerolled to dk and I'm killing vr14s nbs at level 40, 8/10 times. Just sad.

pppontus · September 2014

mriguy1981 wrote: »

Sorry kego, u lost the argument. Get up to vr14 and go head to head against any dk and you'll see real fast that you can't win. In agroup your build is cool. Zerg feast..... its awesome. But it lacks unfortunetly. Not trying to be mean but dks just are op. Wish us nbs had a littke bit more to stand on but all dks know the truth. Its not winning or we are not emo but when there are a crap ton of threads about this issue, then maybe, just maybe we need to be compensated. I have recently rerolled to dk and I'm killing vr14s nbs at level 40, 8/10 times. Just sad.

Sorry but personally I don't need to level my NB to vr14 - you see I can think beyond casting spells at reflect so I'm fine at VR12, I faceroll every single DK who is stupid enough to even try to 1v1 me. Healing ward > GDB. Disease enchant on weapons. Shades and fear the living hell out of him. Drop VoB, you'd be surprised how many DKs think that because they're FoTM they can kill me in my veil. Oops, not even close.

With my AoE S/S Sap Essence + Veil bar I can hold my own against 10 DKs furiously whipping at me for as long as they want - my veil is up 100% of the time and they just can't figure out why they can't kill a lonely nightblade.

Now the main point of my post is that if you're moderately intelligent you can come up with builds that can accomplish anything with any class, and that can in turn be countered by something else. I think the main problem here is not that the DK FoTM build is especially OP, but that so many people are running it that other people really think it is and don't bother countering it because they're so stuck in the "OP NERF"-mindset.

The reflect spam is so easy to handle, put shades on him, drop a crippling grasp so he can't get up on you. Heavy attack all the time, he WILL run out of resources before you do, because he is using his while you are regenerating yours. Learn to smell his weakness and hit him when it hurts the most.

Father · September 2014

I'm just scared if Zos makes dark brotherhood skill tree or thieves guild skill tree there would be no purpose for playing NB anymore

Better roll a dk with GDB and scales with assassin skills than role a class with broken or pathetic skills :<

pppontus · September 2014

Father wrote: »

I'm just scared if Zos makes dark brotherhood skill tree or thieves guild skill tree there would be no purpose for playing NB anymore
Better roll a dk with GDB and scales with assassin skills than role a class with broken or pathetic skills :<

Actives:
Impale - 2nd best finisher in the game, beaten only by Sorcs fury.
Mass Hysteria - Awesome CC that works through block.
Funnel Health - Low cost, range, great damage, heals you and allies + generates a ton of ultimate.
Crippling Grasp - Nice DoT, slows your enemy, keep on target at all times. Most will not even understand that they're passively losing an extra 150 hp per second.
Siphoning Attacks - Endless magicka, costs ~10% in damage, I use it in long fights and when fighting large groups. This coupled with Sap Essence, S/S and Veil of Blades means I can hold off 8-12 people for minutes. Combo generates so much ulti you will never have a second without Veil of Blades.
Sap Essence - OK damage, heals, generates tons of ultimate and coupled with Siphoning Attacks never run out of resources.

Passives:
Refreshing Shadows - Flat 30% extra stam regen, no strings attached.
Fortitude - Great for extending HP ~200 extra with 2 shadow abilites and a decent HP pool.
Catalyst - Everyone can chug potions but you get 30% extra from them, keep drinking.
Magicka Flood - 8% extra magicka per siphoning ability, and this is one of the best class trees in the game. I usually run at least 2-3.
Transfer - THIS is a passive that totally changes the NB game. You gain extra ultimate from all siphoning abilites, which in themselves are AMAZING ult generators already because they both damage and heal.

Ultimate:
Veil of Blades - Probably THE best ultimate in the game, survive anything with a 60% damage mitigation that also does 200dmg/s to enemies within it, and snares too. Only your imagination can stop you with this one.

Seriously, I know certain abilites may not be excellent - but that is the case for all classes, it's that simple. Hopefully they will refine them so that no one has useless skills, but to think you'll be that much better of because you're a DK.. maybe the DK requires less skill, I don't know. More likely is that the good DK builds are widespread, everyone knows them, but most people just won't even begin to theorycraft a proper NB build.. it seems.

Running around with a bad NB build is the same as running around with a DK using Extended Chains as your main damage dealer. Their class can be useless too you know..

This is what I normally run btw, if anyone is interested (for small group PvP mostly): http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/eso-skill-calculator/nightblade/?asb=8398

In larger groups, or when our small group decides to wipe large groups I swap the offhand resto for S/S (Covenant set, reduce ult cost 10%) and rely only on Siphoning Attacks + Sap Essence + Veil. Keep a couple of sorcs on hand so you can negate their negates, stack a couple of more ultimates when they don't expect it and watch them melt. Again, the above would not even be possible to do without an "underpowered" (lol) nightblade.

GoatKnuckle · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

GoatKnuckle wrote: »

Yep, you're definitely not whining...

And you definitely have no argument to what I've said. I've nullified his entire build with one spell, reducing him to a weak resto healer. Which he sounds like a group support healer in the first place telling me, when I try to create a siphon dps ranged build, that NBs are fine.

All I'm asking for is Path of Darkness to tick harder and make you immune to roots and snares while in it and to make Drain Power to hit a bit harder as a counter to spell reflect and usable in small scale (less the 4 targets) so it can go on my bar. Nothing overpowering.

See? You are still not whining. Do you need a hug? Bring it on in big guy.

The Goat doesn't see an argument here, just a string of emotive outbursts.

So you want Path of Darkness to hit harder? OK, it hits for crap ... I'll grant you that. You also want to add CC immunity to it. I agree that sounds like a lot of fun. Who wouldn't want a skill that increases your runspeed and provides CC immunity and would be spammable because the skill currently does not have a high resource cost. Not OP.

If you can control your ego, I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on how buffing drain power would be a counter against a spell reflect.

Aeratus · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Some skills need to be fixed because they don't always work as intended, but I don't really know why you are having issues. NB from ESO lore is a magicka user. I do wicked DPS with my restore staff build and almost never die in pve. I solo just about everything. We have skills that keep our magicka and stamina constantly up, we do have self heals, and I gain ultimate at a ridiculous rate. In PvP I am still magicka based, wearing all light armor, restore staff on one bar and sword and board on the other. Attack by surprise and switch back and forth between ranged and melee range to confuse the enemy. DK puts up dragon scales? Stop using ranged attack and switch to melee then back and forth. We all know the most common builds, if you don't then learn them and come up with a strategy for killing those builds.

Ya I agree, when I use dragon scale please come and melee my Dk. I have Lava whips that does 500 dps and talons that add another 150-200 when accounting ticks. Please, I agree with you. Dks are fodder. Bring into me your 250-300 surprise attacks. Im sure I'll die soon enough after healing myself. You are right. I see the errors of my ways. Nbs should just melee the DKs.

My surprise attack has 570 base damage on my 1h/shield bar (or 620 damage on my resto bar, which is to be nerfed soon). It also kills 40% armor. I melee DKs all the time.

In group fights, DKs don't seem much of a threat to me, and their kill rate against me is lower than that of bow NBs.

pppontus · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

Who cares if you fear me. If I maintain spell reflect at all times. You wont get me to 75% of my health for your fear to matter. Refresh me. How do you dps someone with this build if they have spell reflect up 100% of the time? How? There isn't anything but funnel health and crush shock.. Live in your theories and hardcore talk. But your fear is nothing to me. Because you cant even damage me. AT all. Zero. Nill. None. Damage. Slot your shades, but your funnel health and crush shuck don't matter. Your fear doesn't matter. Even after I am out of stamina, because if I maintain my reflect you aren't 100 to zeroing me in your fear. You do not matter to me. You aint killing me and I haven't died on my Dk to a solo NB except for an archer who did tons of dps before I could respond. Keep talking big thinking people will think you're good. The people who also play your class know youre siphon build isn't killing a DK. THE END.

And admit it. If youre running that build all a DK has to do is keep up spell reflect. Say it. It's true and if you don't say it you're just trying to appear better than you are. You're no good anyways, because your trash post omits that spell reflect negates that build completely. Just say it man. I'm a naughty girl. I like it hard. I can take it. Give it to me. I can handle it. LAVA WHIP LAVA WHIP. Whose your daddy. Say my name. Take it. Take it. Say it. Say it. What's my name. At least your girlfriend knows what it really sounds like. Even if it's not you making her.

SHADDUP!!! Please youre embarrassing yourselg copying builds from NBs that solo trash strays on youtube dude. Im so laughing at you.

Edit: Oh and right now instead of playing you on my Dk in pvp. Im running my NB testing teleporting strikes and surprise attacks. For now, at this moment. All Im seeing is latency nullify my opener into non-crits. Surprise surprise.

Your attitude is one of many DKs, keep it up, that's what makes you a free kill for my NB. If you use your magicka to reflect and your stamina to break free, what else do you have? What says I can't block your whips? You'll stand there whipping my shield costing you more magicka than it costs HP for me. I'll use siphoning attacks to have all resources maxed out when you have none left. Disease enchant on my resto staff makes your GDB cry.

Figure it out, all these QQ DK OP threads, guys just figure it out. I honestly think DKs are the easiest class to render completely uneffective. No, you can't just burst them down, but you can make them stand around and be completely useless until their resources are gone - and then just murder them.

It's easy to be a DK, sure, but personally I think the harder classes to play are much more effective played right.

Vizier · September 2014

pppontus wrote: »

Father wrote: »

I'm just scared if Zos makes dark brotherhood skill tree or thieves guild skill tree there would be no purpose for playing NB anymore
Better roll a dk with GDB and scales with assassin skills than role a class with broken or pathetic skills :<

Actives:
Impale - 2nd best finisher in the game, beaten only by Sorcs fury.
Mass Hysteria - Awesome CC that works through block.
Funnel Health - Low cost, range, great damage, heals you and allies + generates a ton of ultimate.
Crippling Grasp - Nice DoT, slows your enemy, keep on target at all times. Most will not even understand that they're passively losing an extra 150 hp per second.
Siphoning Attacks - Endless magicka, costs ~10% in damage, I use it in long fights and when fighting large groups. This coupled with Sap Essence, S/S and Veil of Blades means I can hold off 8-12 people for minutes. Combo generates so much ulti you will never have a second without Veil of Blades.
Sap Essence - OK damage, heals, generates tons of ultimate and coupled with Siphoning Attacks never run out of resources.

Passives:
Refreshing Shadows - Flat 30% extra stam regen, no strings attached.
Fortitude - Great for extending HP ~200 extra with 2 shadow abilites and a decent HP pool.
Catalyst - Everyone can chug potions but you get 30% extra from them, keep drinking.
Magicka Flood - 8% extra magicka per siphoning ability, and this is one of the best class trees in the game. I usually run at least 2-3.
Transfer - THIS is a passive that totally changes the NB game. You gain extra ultimate from all siphoning abilites, which in themselves are AMAZING ult generators already because they both damage and heal.

Ultimate:
Veil of Blades - Probably THE best ultimate in the game, survive anything with a 60% damage mitigation that also does 200dmg/s to enemies within it, and snares too. Only your imagination can stop you with this one.

Seriously, I know certain abilites may not be excellent - but that is the case for all classes, it's that simple. Hopefully they will refine them so that no one has useless skills, but to think you'll be that much better of because you're a DK.. maybe the DK requires less skill, I don't know. More likely is that the good DK builds are widespread, everyone knows them, but most people just won't even begin to theorycraft a proper NB build.. it seems.

Running around with a bad NB build is the same as running around with a DK using Extended Chains as your main damage dealer. Their class can be useless too you know..

This is what I normally run btw, if anyone is interested (for small group PvP mostly): http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/eso-skill-calculator/nightblade/?asb=8398

In larger groups, or when our small group decides to wipe large groups I swap the offhand resto for S/S (Covenant set, reduce ult cost 10%) and rely only on Siphoning Attacks + Sap Essence + Veil. Keep a couple of sorcs on hand so you can negate their negates, stack a couple of more ultimates when they don't expect it and watch them melt. Again, the above would not even be possible to do without an "underpowered" (lol) nightblade.

Checked out your build. Going to run with it on my Bloodmage for awhile. This is 1 of 3 NB I have. I had found the Bloodmage fun to play, was survivable and hard to kill but had real issues putting others away. 1st bar virtually the same. 2nd bar very different though. I'm curious to see how it plays. Tnx. Can't hurt to try it out.

Archie · September 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Archie wrote: »

I cannot believe that a bunch of you guys post some stats, give a stave to nb's hand and dress him up in gown or pjamas and pass him as "a working NB". That might work a little but that is not an NB, that is a freak!

Actually, you can get a pretty sleek ninja-like appearance with light armor if you have the right motifs, a jerkin rather than a robe, and dye it all black.

On the other hand, for medium armor user that wear the ophidian helm, or pretend to look like shredder (bosmer motif), or wear a big skull on their face (barbaric motif)...I think they look more like freaks to me!

And I bet that ninja-likeness will carry a magic wand in hand, no? Well, I dont know about big skulls or ophidian helms. But I have not seen any assasin/rogue archetype in any game wearing an elegant hiccap and carrying a magical tree branch for a weapon. Having said that, I am all for redefining the type. That is why I wanted DEV contribution. Is this what they were planning when they designed the nightblade?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Also, how are you getting this from FTC, person that replied to me. I get floaty numbers and have a bar that gives me numbers recalculated periodically, but I never pull in that kind of damage.

I haven't had time to play that much in pvp in 1.4 so far, but a typical sustained single target dps for me is around 275-350. If the opposition has a ton of shields/mitigation stacked, then my dps drop closer to 200 and possibly lower than 200. This is LA + resto build with 147 spell damage inside cyrodiil (151 outside of cyrodiil due to different soft caps). So after the resto staff nerf is in place, I'll have 10% less.

For AOE damage, I get around 550-750 for standard situations. In dense fights, 1-1.3k can be reached with veil of blades. Sap essence is the only AOE skill I use.

BTW, to get the timer stats on FTC, you have to bring up the dps printout page. This is usually done by setting a hotkey to that page, which isn't set by default.

awesome, thanks a ton. BTW, if I am running heals, and I pop sap essence, will it also boost my heals?

In theory it seems like it would work this way...

GnatB wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

They build class abilities around stealth and sneak but then don't give all NBs the tools to take advantage of those things..

Eh? I'm not sure I'd call 1 active and 2 passives, that are affected by sneak (and work equally with invis) "building class abilities around stealth and sneak". And heck, all the active does is add an extra stun from sneak (and increase stealth speed, if you take that morph).

Oh, and P.S. In all the previous Elder Scrolls games, the "Nightblade" class was a mage/magic specialization class.

Actually it was a thief class that used magic to aid it.

The rundown on each game's version of nightblades has been done before.

I'm really tired of people being obtuse and pretending like nightblades weren't built to be thieves/assassins. Shadow and assassination skill lines say otherwise.

Smeep- Luv you man but your wrong.

No matter how you slice it when looking at NB's they are mages first. Always have been. Previous incarnations of NB are the inspiration for the class in ESO. Discount that then your talking out your hole.

TES NB Major skill = Magic. Their secondary skills = All that other rogue crap and not even that really. You'd be closer to the truth saying the NB is a mage that uses magic to aid and augment other skills.

Be upset all you want NB is what it is and it ain't no "thief." Blame ZoS for not putting in a classic rogue for ESO, but don't try to make the NB class something it isn't.
-=

To be fair, NB purists need to know the NB was intended to be the rogue type in ESO. There's no denying that. They also gave a great deal of latitude to the build to try to accommodate classic builds but pretty much jacked it up. With only 4 main classes taking the place of 20 classes something has to give and there really should be room for the different build types in the game... AND THERE would BE is NB skills worked as they were supposed to and Stamina builds weren't playing second fiddle.

So smeep I get it, but saying a NB was a thief is just way off.

Well at least you love me, and that is what matters.

You can be a magic user AND a thief type. All classes in this game are magic users. This is also what Nightblades were. Yes they used magic, it was part and parcel of nightblade, but that was true of stealth and assassination stuff also, and this is reflected in the nightblade skill lines.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, tbh.

Aeratus · September 2014

Archie wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Archie wrote: »

I cannot believe that a bunch of you guys post some stats, give a stave to nb's hand and dress him up in gown or pjamas and pass him as "a working NB". That might work a little but that is not an NB, that is a freak!

Actually, you can get a pretty sleek ninja-like appearance with light armor if you have the right motifs, a jerkin rather than a robe, and dye it all black.

On the other hand, for medium armor user that wear the ophidian helm, or pretend to look like shredder (bosmer motif), or wear a big skull on their face (barbaric motif)...I think they look more like freaks to me!

And I bet that ninja-likeness will carry a magic wand in hand, no? Well, I dont know about big skulls or ophidian helms. But I have not seen any assasin/rogue archetype in any game wearing an elegant hiccap and carrying a magical tree branch for a weapon. Having said that, I am all for redefining the type. That is why I wanted DEV contribution. Is this what they were planning when they designed the nightblade?

One of the ninja turtles carries a staff. So I think a staff is a fine weapon for a ninja.

Even better if you select a motif that makes your staff look like a glaive.

Araxleon · September 2014

I will gladly beat any class (unless they wimp out.) 1 on 1, I can kill any DK /sorc/templar solo atm and I don't even need to start the fight from sneak. I would love to see a DK try to survive 1.3k burst maintained for 14 secs.

Father · September 2014

Whenever someone shouts and brags how strong his toon is, the first sentence you will hear is "hey I can kill dk" .
Saying that alone is already like saying hey I can beat the most OP class

How come people don't brag about killing NB?? I'll tell you why...because its the weakest class in game by default since launch.

Araxleon · September 2014

NB aren't exactly weak. But DK have the most potential to beat any class (Easy Mode) NB requires more skill, Every skill a DK has can usually help counter something and all their skills have a purpose. If most NB players started changing play style instead of complaining about being underpowered. Maybe people wouldn't think all every NB sucks.

Yusuf · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

I agree with Lathbury.

Kego, I run the same spec as you and I sit behind everything to wait for you to open on someone else. Once you do you're dead and you can't do anything about. You know it and I know it. One difference between you and me is that I run Mark. You're dead. You're not out dodge rolling me. You not gonna turn around and out DPS me. You're not gonna get away, because you're marked and you have no class tools to even the odds in any way.

You kill bad players. That's all. Everyone in this thread is a NB and everyone with your spec knows a DK spamming reflect negates your entire build and you get to do nothing but spam cloak as he chain talon lava whips you and highlights you in his PvP video. Same with a Templar and blazing shield. That's why you run healing warden. So you can try to get out of there and get the big heal. You're simply not killing a good Templar who knows he has blazing shield and a reliable heal. Let alone if he goes offensive and stuns your stamina dry. Sorcerers are a toss up.

That said.

I can't stand all the attention to bows. We shouldnt have to go bow to get ranged openers or round the class. I would like to see siphoning heals boosted or a ranged magicka opener that doesn't put me next to the target. One or the other. I feel like the dps is no better than my DKs, Templars, surely not more than my Sorcerers. It's subpar magicka dps considering the lack of real survival all the other classes get.

I don't think refreshing path or sap essence is on par to the two AoEs the other classes get. If we don't get reliable heals like everyone else. They should be doing more damage or healing more no matter how many targets we hit. If we don't get reliable absorbs, reflects, armor buffs our damage on single target spells NBs should be doing more damage than theirs.

If NBs arent suppose to heal good or have sustained because we could go for big openers take a good hard look at Kegos build above. That's desperation right there. That's knowing the big openers/finishers just aren't working or making a solid class. That's us stacking so much trying to just sustain and heal ourselves. It's so mediocre subpar in every way on top of it. So I ask if we shouldn't have reliable heals or higher dps because of our openers than what's the entire siphoning line for? Gimped turd. I say. That's why NBs are either given into bow gank for a real assassins opener or still trying to find survivability.

This entire game is funny.Templars and DKs charge in and live forever against the odds, stupidly, but using our class abilities our killing power is situation. Just let me stupidly reliably get in and kill someone and get out without having to resort to a bow.

This post almost made me cry.

Vizier · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Also, how are you getting this from FTC, person that replied to me. I get floaty numbers and have a bar that gives me numbers recalculated periodically, but I never pull in that kind of damage.

I haven't had time to play that much in pvp in 1.4 so far, but a typical sustained single target dps for me is around 275-350. If the opposition has a ton of shields/mitigation stacked, then my dps drop closer to 200 and possibly lower than 200. This is LA + resto build with 147 spell damage inside cyrodiil (151 outside of cyrodiil due to different soft caps). So after the resto staff nerf is in place, I'll have 10% less.

For AOE damage, I get around 550-750 for standard situations. In dense fights, 1-1.3k can be reached with veil of blades. Sap essence is the only AOE skill I use.

BTW, to get the timer stats on FTC, you have to bring up the dps printout page. This is usually done by setting a hotkey to that page, which isn't set by default.

awesome, thanks a ton. BTW, if I am running heals, and I pop sap essence, will it also boost my heals?

In theory it seems like it would work this way...

GnatB wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

They build class abilities around stealth and sneak but then don't give all NBs the tools to take advantage of those things..

Eh? I'm not sure I'd call 1 active and 2 passives, that are affected by sneak (and work equally with invis) "building class abilities around stealth and sneak". And heck, all the active does is add an extra stun from sneak (and increase stealth speed, if you take that morph).

Oh, and P.S. In all the previous Elder Scrolls games, the "Nightblade" class was a mage/magic specialization class.

Actually it was a thief class that used magic to aid it.

The rundown on each game's version of nightblades has been done before.

I'm really tired of people being obtuse and pretending like nightblades weren't built to be thieves/assassins. Shadow and assassination skill lines say otherwise.

Smeep- Luv you man but your wrong.

No matter how you slice it when looking at NB's they are mages first. Always have been. Previous incarnations of NB are the inspiration for the class in ESO. Discount that then your talking out your hole.

TES NB Major skill = Magic. Their secondary skills = All that other rogue crap and not even that really. You'd be closer to the truth saying the NB is a mage that uses magic to aid and augment other skills.

Be upset all you want NB is what it is and it ain't no "thief." Blame ZoS for not putting in a classic rogue for ESO, but don't try to make the NB class something it isn't.
-=

To be fair, NB purists need to know the NB was intended to be the rogue type in ESO. There's no denying that. They also gave a great deal of latitude to the build to try to accommodate classic builds but pretty much jacked it up. With only 4 main classes taking the place of 20 classes something has to give and there really should be room for the different build types in the game... AND THERE would BE is NB skills worked as they were supposed to and Stamina builds weren't playing second fiddle.

So smeep I get it, but saying a NB was a thief is just way off.

Well at least you love me, and that is what matters.

You can be a magic user AND a thief type. All classes in this game are magic users. This is also what Nightblades were. Yes they used magic, it was part and parcel of nightblade, but that was true of stealth and assassination stuff also, and this is reflected in the nightblade skill lines.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, tbh.

Absolutely right. No skill in TES was ever mutually excusive. And a NB could indeed become a thief or assassin or anything else for that matter. All the classes were that way. I'm just pointing out the NB was a mage first based on it's primary skill always being magic, not sneaking or med armor, or picking pockets or bow. NB's were never precluded from pursuing those skills. Such is the way in TES games. My criticism comes from seeing a trend of folks that want to see and play rogues (and I want to play rogues too. It's my preferred character type)trying to say the NB "should't" be wearing robes, when NB traditionally specialized in light armor, "shouldn't" be casting spells when primary specializations were heavy in mage skills, should be stamina based DW, Bow and med armor when those at best were secondary skills if at all.

I understand it. And personally I think Zenimax should have had NB as an expanded class from sorcerer since destruction, restoration and illusion were specializations of the NB class AND then created a more traditional thief/assassin/ranger. Another option would have been to take some of the strongest skills from each NB class now, consolidate them into one and then provide for other class trees that have synergy with DW and Bow.

The flip side to all this is there are roughly 20ish TES classes condensed into 4 so we who love the traditional NB shouldn't practice reverse discrimination, so to speak, regarding thieves, assassins and rangers. As I said before, there should be a place for all these types of classes to be viable and just because there is a narrow build and play style that is working with the NB doesn't mean people just need to L2P. They have every right to expect viable builds that allow for more types of NB to be competitive.

I think we're pretty much on the same page..just reading it a little differently.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Some skills need to be fixed because they don't always work as intended, but I don't really know why you are having issues. NB from ESO lore is a magicka user. I do wicked DPS with my restore staff build and almost never die in pve. I solo just about everything. We have skills that keep our magicka and stamina constantly up, we do have self heals, and I gain ultimate at a ridiculous rate. In PvP I am still magicka based, wearing all light armor, restore staff on one bar and sword and board on the other. Attack by surprise and switch back and forth between ranged and melee range to confuse the enemy. DK puts up dragon scales? Stop using ranged attack and switch to melee then back and forth. We all know the most common builds, if you don't then learn them and come up with a strategy for killing those builds.

Ya I agree, when I use dragon scale please come and melee my Dk. I have Lava whips that does 500 dps and talons that add another 150-200 when accounting ticks. Please, I agree with you. Dks are fodder. Bring into me your 250-300 surprise attacks. Im sure I'll die soon enough after healing myself. You are right. I see the errors of my ways. Nbs should just melee the DKs.

Lol, rage more scrub.

Gilvoth · September 2014

.

Redlag wrote: »

Who cares if you fear me. If I maintain spell reflect at all times. You wont get me to 75% of my health for your fear to matter. Refresh me. How do you dps someone with this build if they have spell reflect up 100% of the time? How? There isn't anything but funnel health and crush shock.. Live in your theories and hardcore talk. But your fear is nothing to me. Because you cant even damage me. AT all. Zero. Nill. None. Damage. Slot your shades, but your funnel health and crush shuck don't matter. Your fear doesn't matter. Even after I am out of stamina, because if I maintain my reflect you aren't 100 to zeroing me in your fear. You do not matter to me. You aint killing me and I haven't died on my Dk to a solo NB except for an archer who did tons of dps before I could respond. Keep talking big thinking people will think you're good. The people who also play your class know youre siphon build isn't killing a DK. THE END.

And admit it. If youre running that build all a DK has to do is keep up spell reflect. Say it. It's true and if you don't say it you're just trying to appear better than you are. You're no good anyways, because your trash post omits that spell reflect negates that build completely. Just say it man. I'm a naughty girl. I like it hard. I can take it. Give it to me. I can handle it. LAVA WHIP LAVA WHIP. Whose your daddy. Say my name. Take it. Take it. Say it. Say it. What's my name. At least your girlfriend knows what it really sounds like. Even if it's not you making her.

SHADDUP!!! Please youre embarrassing yourselg copying builds from NBs that solo trash strays on youtube dude. Im so laughing at you.

Edit: Oh and right now instead of playing you on my Dk in pvp. Im running my NB testing teleporting strikes and surprise attacks. For now, at this moment. All Im seeing is latency nullify my opener into non-crits. Surprise surprise.

ok this right here is exactly what we see in pvp as a nightblade from the dragonights and developers refuse to change it.
im a nightblade and reading what u wrote here is more then bothering me. its downright insulting

@ZOS_GinaBruno is the person who wrote this comment to blame? no, i think the developer of the dragonight is the one to blame and obviously it is clear to see the nightblade class survivability and damage output need help.

Kego · September 2014

Make Crushing Shock not reflectable and all is fine. After all this Skill has no projectile, it is a stream of Energy that hits you 3 times.

It is a known bug and should asap be changed.

IxSTALKERxI · September 2014

I disagree with the OP, there may be 1 or 2 nightblade skills that could do with a small tweak but as a whole the nighblade class is fine. I can solo most PVE content, I can gank in PVP or I can run into an enemy zerg and survive.

Video's of which can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/IXSTALKERXI

DK's do have higher DPS, however they lack the sustain of a NB. Each class has their strengths and weaknesses.

Kego · September 2014

It is still true that some Skills could need some love to make them more of an option.
Those skills would be from my perspective:

Assassination Skill Tree:
Passives
Executioner - Add a Stamina regen as well, same value as Magicka

Actives
Blur - Raise the Misschance from 15% to 30%, lower the duration from 26 to 13.
Mark Target - Reduce the own reduction to Armor and Spell Resistance to 25% from 75%
Haste - Morph Incapacitate - change the 2 sec Root to a 2 sec Stun.

Shadow Skill Tree:
Actives
Path of Darkness - Raise the DMG and Healing depending on the Morph by 100%
Aspect of Terror - Raise targets hit from 2 to 6.
Summon Shade - Raise DMG Done by the Shade 50%
Summon Shade - Morph Dark Shades - Raise DMG reduction up to 35%
Summon Shade - Shadow Image - Raise DMG Done by the Shade 100%

Siphoning Skill Tree:
Actives
Agony - Make this Skill an instant Cast
Crippling Grasp - Raise the Snare Effect on the target
Siphoning Strikes - Morph Leeching Strikes - Add the Chance of 10% to restore 15% Health on any Attack made.
Siphoning Strikes - Morph Siphoning Attacks - Raise the Chance up to 15% to restore 20% Stamina and Magicka on any Attack made.

Archie · September 2014

Redlag wrote: »

Who cares if you fear me. If I maintain spell reflect at all times. You wont get me to 75% of my health for your fear to matter. Refresh me. How do you dps someone with this build if they have spell reflect up 100% of the time? How? There isn't anything but funnel health and crush shock.. Live in your theories and hardcore talk. But your fear is nothing to me. Because you cant even damage me. AT all. Zero. Nill. None. Damage. Slot your shades, but your funnel health and crush shuck don't matter. Your fear doesn't matter. Even after I am out of stamina, because if I maintain my reflect you aren't 100 to zeroing me in your fear. You do not matter to me. You aint killing me and I haven't died on my Dk to a solo NB except for an archer who did tons of dps before I could respond. Keep talking big thinking people will think you're good. The people who also play your class know youre siphon build isn't killing a DK. THE END.

And admit it. If youre running that build all a DK has to do is keep up spell reflect. Say it. It's true and if you don't say it you're just trying to appear better than you are. You're no good anyways, because your trash post omits that spell reflect negates that build completely. Just say it man. I'm a naughty girl. I like it hard. I can take it. Give it to me. I can handle it. LAVA WHIP LAVA WHIP. Whose your daddy. Say my name. Take it. Take it. Say it. Say it. What's my name. At least your girlfriend knows what it really sounds like. Even if it's not you making her.

SHADDUP!!! Please youre embarrassing yourselg copying builds from NBs that solo trash strays on youtube dude. Im so laughing at you.

Edit: Oh and right now instead of playing you on my Dk in pvp. Im running my NB testing teleporting strikes and surprise attacks. For now, at this moment. All Im seeing is latency nullify my opener into non-crits. Surprise surprise.

While sone Polyanna Nbs still continue to daydream, this is the grim reality served to you by the friendly ZOS. Thank you ZOS, you make our day every day!

Aeratus · September 2014

Archie wrote: »

Redlag wrote: »

Who cares if you fear me. If I maintain spell reflect at all times. You wont get me to 75% of my health for your fear to matter. Refresh me. How do you dps someone with this build if they have spell reflect up 100% of the time? How? There isn't anything but funnel health and crush shock.. Live in your theories and hardcore talk. But your fear is nothing to me. Because you cant even damage me. AT all. Zero. Nill. None. Damage. Slot your shades, but your funnel health and crush shuck don't matter. Your fear doesn't matter. Even after I am out of stamina, because if I maintain my reflect you aren't 100 to zeroing me in your fear. You do not matter to me. You aint killing me and I haven't died on my Dk to a solo NB except for an archer who did tons of dps before I could respond. Keep talking big thinking people will think you're good. The people who also play your class know youre siphon build isn't killing a DK. THE END.

And admit it. If youre running that build all a DK has to do is keep up spell reflect. Say it. It's true and if you don't say it you're just trying to appear better than you are. You're no good anyways, because your trash post omits that spell reflect negates that build completely. Just say it man. I'm a naughty girl. I like it hard. I can take it. Give it to me. I can handle it. LAVA WHIP LAVA WHIP. Whose your daddy. Say my name. Take it. Take it. Say it. Say it. What's my name. At least your girlfriend knows what it really sounds like. Even if it's not you making her.

SHADDUP!!! Please youre embarrassing yourselg copying builds from NBs that solo trash strays on youtube dude. Im so laughing at you.

Edit: Oh and right now instead of playing you on my Dk in pvp. Im running my NB testing teleporting strikes and surprise attacks. For now, at this moment. All Im seeing is latency nullify my opener into non-crits. Surprise surprise.

Redlag wrote: »

Who cares if you fear me. If I maintain spell reflect at all times. You wont get me to 75% of my health for your fear to matter. Refresh me. How do you dps someone with this build if they have spell reflect up 100% of the time? How? There isn't anything but funnel health and crush shock.. Live in your theories and hardcore talk. But your fear is nothing to me. Because you cant even damage me. AT all. Zero. Nill. None. Damage. Slot your shades, but your funnel health and crush shuck don't matter. Your fear doesn't matter. Even after I am out of stamina, because if I maintain my reflect you aren't 100 to zeroing me in your fear. You do not matter to me. You aint killing me and I haven't died on my Dk to a solo NB except for an archer who did tons of dps before I could respond. Keep talking big thinking people will think you're good. The people who also play your class know youre siphon build isn't killing a DK. THE END.

And admit it. If youre running that build all a DK has to do is keep up spell reflect. Say it. It's true and if you don't say it you're just trying to appear better than you are. You're no good anyways, because your trash post omits that spell reflect negates that build completely. Just say it man. I'm a naughty girl. I like it hard. I can take it. Give it to me. I can handle it. LAVA WHIP LAVA WHIP. Whose your daddy. Say my name. Take it. Take it. Say it. Say it. What's my name. At least your girlfriend knows what it really sounds like. Even if it's not you making her.

SHADDUP!!! Please youre embarrassing yourselg copying builds from NBs that solo trash strays on youtube dude. Im so laughing at you.

Edit: Oh and right now instead of playing you on my Dk in pvp. Im running my NB testing teleporting strikes and surprise attacks. For now, at this moment. All Im seeing is latency nullify my opener into non-crits. Surprise surprise.

While sone Polyanna Nbs still continue to daydream, this is the grim reality served to you by the friendly ZOS. Thank you ZOS, you make our day every day!

Meh, he's just upset that his NB isn't easy mode like what his DK is.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · September 2014

Devs don't comment. I've never seen one one the forums, only community managers (who do a great job with what they are allowed to say and such).

I've never played an MMO with this little of communication from devs. Good lord, there's a game that came out recently that has had more dev comments and conversations with players in it's first few weeks.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · September 2014

Araxleon wrote: »

I will gladly beat any class (unless they wimp out.) 1 on 1, I can kill any DK /sorc/templar solo atm and I don't even need to start the fight from sneak. I would love to see a DK try to survive 1.3k burst maintained for 14 secs.

Weird I didn't see you win any 100 dueling tournaments. Why don't you enter them?

Luvsfuzzybunnies · September 2014

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I disagree with the OP, there may be 1 or 2 nightblade skills that could do with a small tweak but as a whole the nighblade class is fine. I can solo most PVE content, I can gank in PVP or I can run into an enemy zerg and survive.

Video's of which can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/IXSTALKERXI

DK's do have higher DPS, however they lack the sustain of a NB. Each class has their strengths and weaknesses.

Your last sentence I don't even know how to take that seriously...

Edit: Watched your video now I understand a little better. You are a vampire full block enchanted nightblade who runs with healers got it. I forgot when a yellow player rolls solo he is surrounded by 30 other solo players. Makes way more sense. Also vampire ult keeps you alive yes but it is a choice not a class ability and everyone knows it is a bit powerful as of now.

Tamanous · September 2014

Well this thread turned into a whine and bicker thread.

Turn your epeen down and get back on the subject of Nightblade and not who's internet *** is larger.

Funny how most can't post more than 3 sentences without "TLDR" but when arguing with someone you can suddenly post multi-page letters to each other.

Araxleon · September 2014

@Luvsfuzzybunnies‌ @sypher69ub17_ESO‌
Well im in legend, I joined a about 2 months ago. I was new and beat most people only person that could beat me was Sypher. 2 months later, Im a officer that duels everyday, Now im giving sypher a hard time and hes trying to counter me. We are friends so its fun to challenge eachother. People don't want me in tournaments, so I host them in legend from time to time. (same reason why small tournaments wouldn't want sypher)
if you aren't referring to legend, last I checked people don't yell in zone that their going to host a tournament

pppontus · September 2014

Maybe the Devs won't comment because they don't want to break it to you that you need to L2P.

^Nightblade main since launch, awesome in PvE and PvP. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

helediron · September 2014

Kego wrote: »

It is still true that some Skills could need some love to make them more of an option.
Those skills would be from my perspective:

Assassination Skill Tree: ...snip...

This!

@Kego, while this thread is much ado about nothing, that is a very well thought out list. Having VR14 NB i can only concur. The buffs are in places where needed, while staying moderate.

Few comments:
- One morph of Blur could have burst heal. In another thread there was a great idea of changing miss chance to damage mitigation. Miss chance is not good against bosses.
- Siphoning attacks don't necessarily need buff, but it should tick twice often returning half of what it does now. Current values allow eternal cast of Funnel/LA on average, but create sometimes awfully long streaks of bad luck. I see often 30..40 casts without a proc.
- Would add a change to Funnel Health: Heal 3 allies instead of 2. That would be great for 4 person groups.