Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

rwross · September 2014

Look, I'm not apologist for ZOS but @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ his been quite responsive to this forum so my two cents is that we try to keep the tone positive and respectful. She has lots of threads she responds to and being snarky is not a way to encourage a productive dialogue.

@neueregel‌ not trying to be a putz to you either...just a general comment directed to myself as well... :-)

neueregel wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno, you cant come here and tell us nothing has changed an try to 'explain' to us how it works. Most of us here posting play this player type every day for hours. My NB is my main player that I started april 1. We all are saying the same thing. Something changed. We can no longer sneak the way we have prior to 1.4. Telling us how it works doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work like it did. Most of us all know 'how it works' by now... I mean that is like a mechanic telling a driver, "let me tell you how the brake works. You press your foot on the brake pedal, and the car will slow down." I then tell the mechanic, I know this, but before I came in to have my brakes 'fixed' by you, it DID slow down... now it DOESN'T...

bunnytrix · September 2014

@polar

SNEAKING HAS BEEN NERFED. Either unintentionally (someone messed up) or intentionally (someone is being dishonest).

Fully agree with this..it does feel like a nerf .

rwross · September 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ that said....do you have some additional thoughts you can share?

Like others, I do believe stealth to have improved, but not to where it was prior to 1.4.

If this is the new normal, so be it, but if the folks with the code are telling you that stealth should be operating as it was for 1.3, then our experience is different than that

Gilvoth · September 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd81KPuENyI

the treatments have to continue dr, zenimax, we have no choice.

Desdemonte · September 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I will throw my hat into this ring as well. Stealth HAS changed, and the eye opening a lot earlier than it used to has something to do with it. I don't care what you say about how YOU think the eye works, but unless you have played hundreds of hours as a NB in stealth mode, your parroting of the devs misinformation is helping nothing. Either you don't understand what they are telling you or they don't understand how their own game works.

Which is it?

Because things with stealth have definitely changed for the worse.

Why is it that it continues to be NBs that are consistently *** over in this game?

This is a perfect example of ZOS still NOT LISTENING to the people who play, and therefore are probably much more knowledgeable of their game!

Don't you guys get the picture yet? Your forums since day one have been flooded with pissed off NBs because of the broken class. There is not thread after thread over broken Templars, Sorcs or DKs. Even if 80% of it is whining and noise, the other 20% still overshadows the other 3 classes by far. Does it mean nothing to you that so many of your players pretty much hate you guys for what you keep doing? When this game is still hemorrhaging players, you continue with this BS?

Why don't you just make it a priority finally, and *** fix NBs?

raglau · September 2014

zenimax, what does the actual *design* for stealth say? Not what the coders or the code says, but the game design?

Because I also happen to think the statement here is wrong.

neueregel · September 2014

rwross wrote: »

Look, I'm not apologist for ZOS but @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ his been quite responsive to this forum so my two cents is that we try to keep the tone positive and respectful. She has lots of threads she responds to and being snarky is not a way to encourage a productive dialogue.

@neueregel‌ not trying to be a putz to you either...just a general comment directed to myself as well... :-)

neueregel wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno, you cant come here and tell us nothing has changed an try to 'explain' to us how it works. Most of us here posting play this player type every day for hours. My NB is my main player that I started april 1. We all are saying the same thing. Something changed. We can no longer sneak the way we have prior to 1.4. Telling us how it works doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work like it did. Most of us all know 'how it works' by now... I mean that is like a mechanic telling a driver, "let me tell you how the brake works. You press your foot on the brake pedal, and the car will slow down." I then tell the mechanic, I know this, but before I came in to have my brakes 'fixed' by you, it DID slow down... now it DOESN'T...

I understand... my comments are not personal to GinaBruno‌, but it is frustrating to us to see these types of responses from ZOS and I am just trying to relate how it is being perceived... perception is key.

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

@ZOS_MattFiror since your main's a Nightblade, what's your take on the changes?

hiyde · September 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@ZOS_MattFiror since your main's a Nightblade, what's your take on the changes?

If there's a meaningful response posted directly by him in this thread, I'll buy your ESO sub next month lol.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · September 2014

Yes, I have to agree, Stealth has changed from before in 1.3 and with 1.4 to broken and now to 1.4.4 with the fixes and I can be seen much easier than when it was 1.3 version.

The eye opens more in the current Version, I too have tested this the other night, I have all stealthy passives and wear full medium armor and have all the passives, also I use the Nightshade set (a 3 pc set) with a necklace and two daggers and I am a Normal Khajiit (non vampire) with the Stealthy passive maxed.

I run both bars as Dual wield with Concealed Weapon on both bars.

I switch to the Nightshade Daggers for increased stealth (the VR10 necklace activates the two daggers and the 3 pc set turns on and I get a 2.5 extra meters non detection and -25% sneak cost, the daggers are Legendary) and I then switch over to dual Ashen Grip swords for more damage (4 pc set, helmet, boots and two swords) when in combat and I wear the Nights silence set (5 pc, jack, shoulders, bracers, belt and guards) for the increased sneak speed.

So what I did was take off all my armor (7 pc medium) and without using the 3 pc Nightshade daggers / necklace I snuck up on a enemy (PvE) and the eye opens wide, almost opening, then I backed away.

I switched to the Nightshade dagger set and the detection radius did decrease, the eye doesn't open as wide when getting as close to the enemy as I could get closer until they would see me.

I then put my Medium armor on, all 7 pcs. and tested it again, without the Nightshade set and with the Nightshade set and the detection radius did not change at all with medium armor.

It looks like the Medium armor Passive for stealth is not working fully or at all.

In the past I could walk right past enemies and my eye wouldn't even open and now it's half-way open the majority of the time, I spend almost all my time on my Main Kotaro Atani so I know, just like others who use the Nightblade class who are on these forums that Stealth has changed.

Please fix the sneak/stealth, I will put in a ticket tonight if I don't see any movement on the forums.

Zhoyzu · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok guys, we're trying to nail out this issue but would like a bit of information from you all to help speed things along. Could you please tell us the following about your character:
Race

Class

Armor and weapons equipped

Slotted passives

Also, if you've submitted a /bug about this, please pass along the reference number if you have it.

Thanks in advance!

Argonian, Night Blade, Medium Armor, and of course dark cloak doesnt work. no passives slotted. forgot to mention im a werewolf not that that affects anything seeing as it'll be broken til update5

Probitas · September 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

rook75 wrote: »

ROFL! Ok I don't have to hunt you down in game and vanquish you! Besides ISP's in Canada are probably willing to help... and nice!

They are probably counted as a public utility in Canada like they should be.

Nope. CRTC mandated that the incumbents share the infrastructure, we are not a public utility. We ride their lines. We pay wholesale for the products so our customers can get it cheaper and we provide bandwidth as high as unlimited (actual unlimited). The only issue seems to be getting the vendors that own the infrastructure to have their techs show up for installs.

Zhoyzu · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

i have none of those racial passives...... if thats your conclusion then you really need to dig deeper. im using hundings rage and night mothers gaze switches. so your conclusion only includes a few people. GOOD WORK ZOS (sarcasm)

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

hiyde wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@ZOS_MattFiror since your main's a Nightblade, what's your take on the changes?

If there's a meaningful response posted directly by him in this thread, I'll buy your ESO sub next month lol.

I'd rather have him pay ours, but it's a deal.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

I realize people seem to be getting worked up, and perhaps you guys get hesitant to respond when that happens, but we very much appreciate your continued communication. It only makes things better to hear from you and to work with you on these things.

It does seem like there is some miscommunication somewhere along the line on this. Our experience tells us things have changed. I realize there are bits and pieces we as players do not see, but most of us have spent hundreds of hours playing our Nightblade, so why we may not be able to give exact numbers on things, we know how something -should- be behaving and when it is not doing so. From our perspective and per our extensive experience, something has changed.

If the change is intentional, it is not for the best, if it is unintentional, it should probably be returned to previous values.

Also, if you could have a dev involved talk to us, as far off of a chance as that might be, it would also help a lot so we aren't going through a middle man, no offense, to communicate these things. I suspect we end up playing a game of Chinese whispers with the current method.

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

I don't think they really bothered with answering the last 14 pages with any meaningful insight other than pre-prepared answers and half-baked explanation while they're trying to fetch the one guy who actually knows how it's supposed to be working.

They've been hesitant with everything due to nothing from the get go. I don't give a skeever's tail bout appropriate communication towards folks that deliberately ignore their counterpart.

Their stance towards us has been downright insulting, us calling them out on that is not.

neueregel · September 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok guys, we're trying to nail out this issue but would like a bit of information from you all to help speed things along. Could you please tell us the following about your character:
Race

Class

Armor and weapons equipped

Slotted passives

Also, if you've submitted a /bug about this, please pass along the reference number if you have it.

Thanks in advance!

Wood Elf
NB VR12
3 Seducer items vr12
5 Night Mother's Gaze vr12
5 armour pieces are medium, 2 are light, all are legendary
I use bow as my main weapon, and resto staff in slot 2 - these are both seducer and legendary
No passives in my skills bar but I have all NB passives at max

bunnytrix · September 2014

Many hours testing again last night. Same conclusions. Stealth does not work anywhere near as well as it did pre 1.4.
It has become even more difficult to pay (haha typo)..play* as a sneaky nightblade. Stealth is broken. What are the devs doing about it? Why are they not on this thread talking to us ? All nightblades know that stealth is far worse...yet we get nothing from the devs.

Vizier · September 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

It occurs to me we need clarification on what is considered a projectile where shadowcloak is concerned. I suspect what is happening is some spells and attacks that are a projectiles for all intents and purposes are not counted that way.

Would you please confirm what your definition of projectile is regarding in game attacks from bow, staffs, spells?

Also I wonder if shadowcloak works properly when there are multiple projectiles en route as it is cast...just a thought.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · September 2014

Forget it guys. ZOS do not care. It's as simple as that. Goodnight Nightblades. Roll something else. I did. (that can include changing your NB to one of the builds that works - many do).

neueregel · September 2014

My NightBlade is now a DayBlade.

Francescolg · September 2014

Most players in this game are either NB or DK, or (pro-)players playing all 4 classes.. This composed wining-thread is the major prove of the hidden-unpublished player/class stats!

The remaining players have already quitted ESO, especially the casual players that I really appreciated to have them in pvp. Sadly but true, I think I don't want to play in Cyrondil any longer with a majority of these 3 "player types" mentioned above. You are "what is left", you even don't notice it. Scientists call it either idiosyncratic world view or just nihilism. Prove to believe, go to Cyrondil and read the chat..

GrimMauKin · September 2014

I'm thoroughly fed up with this; Shadowy Disguise is still breaking in all sorts of situations and not stopping attacks. I still haven't got my sneak speed bonus back from slotting Concealed Weapon (I'm assuming that as it's supposedly fixed it won't be being looked at again), I'm getting Concealed Weapon attacks from stealth that do no damage and I'm not convinced that stealth is where is should be.

It's a total mess!

Blackangell · September 2014

All these issues with stealth and Shadow Cloak and I could not believe my ears when Gina stated on ESO live 2 that with stealth the eye will partially open at the same distance no matter what armour sets or passive you have. WTF??? I would like to offer constructive criticism and not bash the devs, but seriously, do you guys have any idea at all about what you are doing?? You have a potentially awesome game here, but you are either severely understaffed or badly mismanaged or both. I am hanging on to keeping my sub by my bare fingernails, and only because I an altaholic and levelling a DK. But I would much rather level my two NBs (one AD 47 and the other DC Vet1) instead. However they are currently parked indefinitely as I see no point in trying to level them, and no point in going into Cyrodil with the current state of the game.

I appreciate your efforts to communicate to us on these forums Gina, and feel like you are a lone voice in the wilderness and very much the 'meat in the sandwich'. Sadly, it seems the people who manage development and call the shots as well as your internal testing (Cough*) seems to be as broken as this game in its current state.

I have very little confidence left now, and fear that you will continue to bleed subs at such a rate that you will be forced to go F2P rather soon, which personally I wish to NEVER see happen, and would never need to happen was the ZOS internal machine running on more than one cylinder.

The only real positive I can say here other than the potential of what this game COULD be, is that the in game community is awesome. Probably very much due to the fact that only the most dedicated people are left, but I see and hear that even many of us are finally reaching breaking point

I personally don't care if the next update brings no new content whatsoever (though like many, I am so waiting for Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood), if only it would actually fix so many of the terribly broken existing content and game mechanics, both in PVE and PVP.

Sorry, rant over. TL/DR Please fix the game and at least put stealth and Shadow Cloak back to what they were pre the debacle of 1.4 !

bunnytrix · September 2014

Just watching ESO Live 2.....they talk about stealth at about 1.10.00.

Unbelievable. It was stated that the eye will open at the same distance no matter what you are wearing. You guys must really think we are stupid.

This IS NOT how stealth worked pre 1.4. Why can you guys not admit that you either changed or broke stealth with 1.4 instead of lying about it. Try for once to be open with us.
Many of us have put 100's of hours into stealthy gameplay. We know exactly how stealth worked before 1.4 and how it is working now.
IT HAS CHANGED! Please admit it, and then tell us how you plan to fix it. Without being disingenuous!

Stealth does not work like it used to. It is much harder to sneak up on anything and much harder to use abilities like Concealed Weapon because you are always detected at a far greater distance than before 1.4. Before that you could sneak and the eye did not open at all! You always knew you were undetected and could plan your moves accordingly. It was working very well. Now the eye opens at far greater distances..you have no idea if you are detected or what has detected you...but mobs you previously got the jump on........are now spotting you much earlier and much farther away...in other words stealthy gameplay is totally gimped!

Shadow Cloak is also still broken but I'll rant about that somewhere else.

phreatophile · September 2014

FACT: Stealth does not work now the way it did before Patch 1.4

You have players all over every aspect of this game, our first hand experience tells us something is different, yet, the Developers say there's nothing to see here. Who you gonna believe ZOS or your lying eye(s), LOL?

Developer refusal to acknowledge this does not make the official line true.

Now, either it was changed intentionally or accidentally.

If it was done intentionally, I'd love to know why it was changed, and why it had to be done dishonestly.

I suspect it was done accidentally, like a lot of other unhappy accidents in this and other patches, why not fess up and fix it?

The hostility is born out of the frustration of playing a largely broken class and far from incremental improvement we get kicked in the face and spit on every time we look up out of the ditch.

It was stated that the eye will open at the same distance no matter what you are wearing. You guys must really think we are stupid.

This smacks of their habit of changing tooltips to reflect the behavior of broken skills rather than fixing the broken skill to match the tooltip.

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

Dunno, but I seem to be beyond the point of peevedness and find this fiasco strangely amusing.

Grim13 · September 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Dunno, but I seem to be beyond the point of peevedness and find this fiasco strangely amusing.

Agreed.

This is kind of like watching Mr. Bean about to walk off of a cliff...

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

Grim13 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Dunno, but I seem to be beyond the point of peevedness and find this fiasco strangely amusing.

Agreed.

This is kind of like watching Mr. Bean about to walk off of a cliff...

Yeah, it's a continuous case of "They can't possibly... Oh boy! They really did!" and I really am looking forward to what might be next.

Lazrael · September 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Dunno, but I seem to be beyond the point of peevedness and find this fiasco strangely amusing.

Agreed.

This is kind of like watching Mr. Bean about to walk off of a cliff...

Yeah, it's a continuous case of "They can't possibly... Oh boy! They really did!" and I really am looking forward to what might be next.

Definitely there with yah. But I don't know how long I'm going to keep paying for the right to watch.
I mean watching a Mr Bean flick on netflix is a lot cheaper.