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Fixing Bat Swarm.
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gigglesnort wrote: »
.other abilities can be used while it is in effect
Can't you use abilities with other ultimates?
So, what people are saying, whether intended to or not, is the use of other abilities while using an ultimate shouldn't be allowed for all ultimates?
I am sorry, can you use Dark Talons while channeling Soul Assault? No? hmm. How about that Templar Healing ultimate, can you use Dark Talons while using that? No? Hmm.
There are a LOT of Ultimates that work differently. Some do NOT allow you to use other abilities while they are active, because it would be ridiculous.
Bat Swarm is one of those cases. Trying to protect your OP build?
Within; Without.3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gigglesnort wrote: »
.other abilities can be used while it is in effect
Can't you use abilities with other ultimates?
So, what people are saying, whether intended to or not, is the use of other abilities while using an ultimate shouldn't be allowed for all ultimates?
I am sorry, can you use Dark Talons while channeling Soul Assault? No? hmm. How about that Templar Healing ultimate, can you use Dark Talons while using that? No? Hmm.
There are a LOT of Ultimates that work differently. Some do NOT allow you to use other abilities while they are active, because it would be ridiculous.
Bat Swarm is one of those cases. Trying to protect your OP build?
well you definitely can't use dark talons with templar abilities. I think we can all agree on that.
There are a lot of examples of both, most of the ones that aren't channeled though are stationary, so that might be part of the problem.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soul Assault is not stationary entirely. You can slowly walk toward the target (who should be walking away) and not break the channeling.
There is also Dragonknight Standard: You can use other abilities while its active, and it has a large AOE but...
1. It doesn't drain life.
2. It stays in place.
It is powerful, it is good. Just like it should be.
Negate Magic: You can use other abilities while active, and large AoE but...
1. Only hits 6 players, so doesn't help vs stacked players.
2. Stays in place.
Another favored Ultimate is Veil of Blades.
1. Stays in place.
2. Lets you use other abilities while active.
Almost all good Ultimates have just one small thing that keeps it sane. It stays in place, it forces you to stand still, the AoE isn't that good size, the AoE limit allows most large groups to walk through it without pain, you can't use other abilities while active, there is something to self-regulate.
The only Ultimate with no self-regulator is Bat Swarm.Edited by Soloeus on September 25, 2014 3:43PM
Within; Without.3 -
Gigglesnort✭✭✭Gigglesnort wrote: »
.other abilities can be used while it is in effect
Can't you use abilities with other ultimates?
So, what people are saying, whether intended to or not, is the use of other abilities while using an ultimate shouldn't be allowed for all ultimates?
I am sorry, can you use Dark Talons while channeling Soul Assault? No? hmm. How about that Templar Healing ultimate, can you use Dark Talons while using that? No? Hmm.
There are a LOT of Ultimates that work differently. Some do NOT allow you to use other abilities while they are active, because it would be ridiculous.
Bat Swarm is one of those cases. Trying to protect your OP build?
Sorry didn't see the word "all" in my text anywhere but did see the word "other"
I don't pvp, so I really don't care if someone thinks it OP or not, as a PVE healer, popping bat swarm to get a mob off me and being able to continue to heal others is beneficial.
Apparently you have an issue with Dark Talons since you referenced that twice.OIIIIIIIO
Death is only the beginning1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about fixing PvP performance instead so I can see the stupid swarm of bats?
Pretty hard to "roll dodge" when the animation comes 10 seconds later lol.
That's the only reason I sometimes take ridiculous damage from Bats (1.5-1,9k). I cant see a damn thing.
But yes, Bat Swarm is a cheap PBAoE, just like Impulse. Can't be blocked, mitigated or reflected. So people obviously spam the hell out of it.
It's a fundamental design flaw, where Bat Swarm is one of many skills involved. Easy-mode AoE spam bypasses everything, you dont even need to aim just press a button and run into someone.
But there's loads of counters and penalties against projectiles and single target abilities. They already require casting time, perfect aiming and a tiny bit of intelligence. But they can be shut down by multiple reflect abilities, block and skills that reduces incoming spell dmg (like Annulment).
How come the most brain-dead PBAoE skills in the game aren't following these rules?1 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »
Or maybe they could bring the other ultimates into line with batswarm first, so that soul assault not only doesn't force me to channel, but also isn't interruptable, or that dawnbreaker actually has a large enough area to hit someone and isn't interruptable.
Then maybe they can nerf them once the vamps see just how stupid powerful their ultimate is and start complaining.
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bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭heyguyslol wrote: »lol another QQ post about Vamps. Man if only I had a dollar for every one of these posts I see you guys make I would be a rich man. Bats are fine learn to move = dodge roll or bolt esc if your a sorc either works just fine dont just stand their and take dmg or u will die, lol.
^vamp lover
Here's the thing. Every AoE ultimate is stationary except bat swarm. Bat swarm has a very high damage output which can also heal the caster and allow the caster to continue using abilities.
Don't sit there and defend vamps in every direction just because you are one and love to play the game on easy mode because you don't have skill (Love how you say someone else should get skill). When It comes to balancing Vampires are all at a higher level then any class/build.
They have invisibility that can't be broken, which also allows them to run from every single battle. They have a CC that cannot be broken in anyway. Their ultimate is 10x more powerful then any other ultimate.
You can't say "learn to do X" When the balancing of Vampires is so completely broken.
~Thallen~3 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gigglesnort wrote: »Gigglesnort wrote: »
.other abilities can be used while it is in effect
Can't you use abilities with other ultimates?
So, what people are saying, whether intended to or not, is the use of other abilities while using an ultimate shouldn't be allowed for all ultimates?
I am sorry, can you use Dark Talons while channeling Soul Assault? No? hmm. How about that Templar Healing ultimate, can you use Dark Talons while using that? No? Hmm.
There are a LOT of Ultimates that work differently. Some do NOT allow you to use other abilities while they are active, because it would be ridiculous.
Bat Swarm is one of those cases. Trying to protect your OP build?
Sorry didn't see the word "all" in my text anywhere but did see the word "other"
I don't pvp, so I really don't care if someone thinks it OP or not, as a PVE healer, popping bat swarm to get a mob off me and being able to continue to heal others is beneficial.
Apparently you have an issue with Dark Talons since you referenced that twice.
Talons, Impulse, Chains, Gap Closers, Stuns... Snipe. Bat Swarm + Any good or great skill together is OP.
Now, good for you that you don't PVP, a lot of people do. One of the biggest issues is Bat Swarm. This argument would be like saying: "Don't change an ability that lets people complete Trials in 3 minutes, because I don't do Trials. The problem doesn't affect me, so it isn't a problem."
Sorry but for the good of us all, sometimes individuals make sacrifices. Light Armor got nerfed, Armor Sets have been nerfed, many abilities have been nerfed to fix various issues, some which didn't impact you.
Within; Without.4 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭er snipe + batswarm? How would those synergize at all? lolDear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You snipe the person who roll dodges or tries to escape. If you don't want to exit your pack to chase them, you can use a lot of various things like Venom Arrow or Snipe to finish them instead.
Chances are they have 1/2 HP by the time they escape anyway so Snipe can finish.
Within; Without.1 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would be nice if it dropped in place, that would solve pretty much 90% of all complaints. It would also create continuity across the board.
Within; Without.2 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭daryl.rasmusenb14_ESO wrote: »Please stop your whining!
You stop whining. Trying to protect your OP build?
L2P.
Within; Without.4 -
NerfEverything✭✭✭✭✭The only people who think bat swarm shouldn't be nerfed are the ones abusing it.Edited by NerfEverything on September 25, 2014 6:02PM2
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was about to ask if you use Bat Swarm.
Read second post.
Ok.
I surely do, all my characters are now vamp. V1 Templar, V12 Sorc, level 40 DK. All vamps, its the only way to go. You can't lose, the "weaknesses" you have to oil will kill any non-vamp anyway, and abilities that do more damage to vamps really don't hit the vamps when they are parked into zergballs.
Within; Without.2 -
GoatKnuckle✭✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »heyguyslol wrote: »lol another QQ post about Vamps. Man if only I had a dollar for every one of these posts I see you guys make I would be a rich man. Bats are fine learn to move = dodge roll or bolt esc if your a sorc either works just fine dont just stand their and take dmg or u will die, lol.
^vamp lover
Here's the thing. Every AoE ultimate is stationary except bat swarm. Bat swarm has a very high damage output which can also heal the caster and allow the caster to continue using abilities.
Empowering Sweep is not stationary. It's AoE too. I swear it. Not bad for being into my cups already.0 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think you put this post in the wrong forum. It should be in Alliance war, I assume. There is no logical reason you would want it nerfed in PVE.
***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn2 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of nerfing Bat Swarm how a bout a new skill line that maybe has some ranged attack that does bonus damage to Vamps? A crossbow would be cool!
This isn't a nerf, its a fix. Batswarm shouldn't let you use other abilities while active.
Also, most vamps are found in Zergballs and thus are almost never targetable by AoE or Silver Shards. I don't want Anti-Vamp mechanisms, I just want the Vamp Mechanisms to be balanced.
It's not broken, so this is a direct nerf, not a fix.
There are many Ultimates that you can pop and continue to cast. In fact, the vast majority of Ultimates work this way.
Just call it what it is; you want the ability nerfed.1 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭GoatKnuckle wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »heyguyslol wrote: »lol another QQ post about Vamps. Man if only I had a dollar for every one of these posts I see you guys make I would be a rich man. Bats are fine learn to move = dodge roll or bolt esc if your a sorc either works just fine dont just stand their and take dmg or u will die, lol.
^vamp lover
Here's the thing. Every AoE ultimate is stationary except bat swarm. Bat swarm has a very high damage output which can also heal the caster and allow the caster to continue using abilities.
Empowering Sweep is not stationary. It's AoE too. I swear it. Not bad for being into my cups already.
Empowering Sweep doesn't last for more than several seconds, life leeching, following you around, allowing you to use other abilities. Not a good example.
Sounds like another Sparkling Edward trying to protect their OP build.
Within; Without.2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the exception of Soul Assault, EVERY ultimate in the entire game allows you to cast while it is running. Some of these, like Nightblade Soul Tether or Veil of Blades (the former being MOBILE just like bats), last up to 17 seconds compared to the Bat Swarm 6.
Dieing to bat swarm is the ultimate "stood in the fire" achievement. It isn't a problem. I think you are making the classic mistake and looking at your death recap from a very specific encounter and ASSUMING what the problem is. However, the problem is zerg blobbing, NOT bat swarm.
Pulsar-stacking zerg blobs NEED to be fixed. The max health reduction from different elemental Pulsar AOE should NOT stack. Overlapping AOE should give diminishing returns. The more enemy AOE you get hit with, the less damage each does, to the point that zerging becomes a net LOSS.
If ZOS were to do this, the biggest threat bats would pose would be akin to the threat DK Standard poses to people that insist on standing in it to fight the DK in melee range.
In short: Adapt.1 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Oh please, I've had smart NPCs run away from bat swarm.Edited by poodlemasterb16_ESO on September 26, 2014 3:14AM0
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WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »lol another QQ post about Vamps. Man if only I had a dollar for every one of these posts I see you guys make I would be a rich man. Bats are fine learn to move = dodge roll or bolt esc if your a sorc either works just fine dont just stand their and take dmg or u will die, lol.
A. How about when you dont see it because it never loaded or took 2 secs render...
B. How about when you are hit with 3 or more at once only seeing 1 swarm.
C. How about trying to dodge roll from bats when its from your alliance...
I think bats is more of a graphics issue... people need some way to tell if its hostile.. same issue with standard...
Lately i have been hit with multiple bats together with sorc streak and pulsar = insta death...
Make enemy bats bright red. Cuz they're covered in blood or some such. I've come to notice, visual queue's work the best in that regard.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
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WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vamps aren't really optional when they overpower nonvamps by so much that you either vamp or don't pvp.
You are forced to vamp. You can choose not too, but you won't be as successful.
The problem, again, is that Vamps can use other abilities while Bat Swarm is active. Bat Swarm should require channeling.
1. It moves with the caster, using gap closers.
2. Sometimes it becomes invisible with Caster when they use speed/invis potion.
3. It is nondirectional.
4. It has the biggest radius of all abilities.
5. other abilities can be used while it is in effect.
6. It drains the life of all players, restoring more HP than you can ever take in damage.
The combination of all 6 of these things makes it gamebreaking OP.
This is without considering Bat Swarm is normally deployed by the "Zerg Ball" where 20 people pack in together. This makes the vamp impossible to target with Silver Shards or Fire.
This solution would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the whiners. As a Vampire, I don't mind it being changed to a channeled ability.
You get my vote.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
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DominionMasterRace
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Govalon✭✭✭✭I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?Edited by Govalon on September 26, 2014 6:40AM0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Problem: Bat Swarm and its morphs allow too much damage output, drain too much life and this needs fixed. It is non-directional, it moves with you, and it lets you use other abilities/potions while active.
The Solution: Isn't a nerf to Batswarm. While it would amuse some haters if Bat Swarm were directional, had a shorter radius or remained in place, these would only make Bat Swarm worthless. What we need is to have Batswarm prevent you from using other abilities while is active (Bolt Escape, Dark Talons, etc).
Bat Swarm is an Ultimate. It should be powerful. It shouldn't enable Godmode. The best fix is to make it so bat swarm is "Channeled." You can move. But you cannot use your other abilities while its active.
There.
Fixed.
(Edit: I say this as a Level 10 Vamp on multiple characters).
Why not just learn to play & counter those vampires? I say that as a non-vamp who eats batswarmers for breakfast.
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
killedbyping✭✭✭✭Im more worried about Batswam invise morth completely ignore all the detection mechanics even Piercing Mark.
This just doesnt work as intended because tooltip doesnt say that you should become immune to detections.0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Why not just....
Eat garlic= 20 min affect of being immune to all vampire powers.0
