"Play However You Want!" (But be sure to use Impulse, or you're useless)

Ruebs · September 2014

Today i was testing some AoE Loadouts on my DK. I put together a Triple-Dot Loadout, Using, Fiery Breath- Flames of Oblivion- Cinderstorm- Draw Essence and Mage Light. Critting off 3 separate DoT's allows very quick Ultimate Gain. I could get a standard down every 11 seconds, and hit a top DPS of 3.1k.

I then decided to try out my LEVEL 3 Impulse, to get an idea on average AoE DPS. To my shock and disgust, i was able to get 3.3k dps by spamming ONE button.
My carefully constructed, perfectly timed AoE loadout (Above^) is made completely obsolete by one skill.

We were promised 'Play how you Like'. And it's true, you can. However if you want to be even slightly competitive, you have to run LA and Impluse.
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Good luck getting into a Trial group! If you're not wielding a Desto Staff, you're officially not a DPS'er..

I'm not a Doomsayer, but the lack of viable variation is getting really, really boring.

P.S- Please keep in mind I was testing on Undead Creatures (Spellscar). DPS is considerably less on 'living' Creatures, due to the lack of Ulti gains and Fighters Guild passives.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

Sorry after you said aoe dk I switched off.

StevK44_ESO · September 2014

I don't see the problem. You used Impulse as a control test for average AoE and got within 200 DPS of it using an unconventional build. Impulse is specifically designed to be a super high DPS AoE spell. That's why you compared your playstyle to it.

Ruebs · September 2014

StevK44_ESO wrote: »

I don't see the problem. You used Impulse as a control test for average AoE and got within 200 DPS of it using an unconventional build. Impulse is specifically designed to be a super high DPS AoE spell. That's why you compared your playstyle to it.

Then what exactly is the point of all those other AoE's? They're just there to look cool?
My survivability was slightly higher with the Original Loadout but other then that, the spell's are completely obsolete.

shadowz081 · September 2014

No one is forcing you to use impulse. To be competitive it is your single target dps that really matters.

Stratti · September 2014

While I understand where you are coming from OP the fact that Impulse is available to any class using a destruction staff can be seen as allowing you to play your way.

For example I play a tank with an OS Destruction staff. I am able to switch in some Cloth gear and put out a good 2.4k DPS on AOE - Im not the best at single target but can hit past 700. I then push a few buttons on Alpha Tools and can switch back to my tank build

To be fair singling out a single ability like Impulse as an example of what your saying is a little unfair.

I know NB players that push past 3k on AOE and will outdo any stick and dress build. Once they get into single target they may not be as high.

As far as trials goes I have ran many times and in our guild we have guys who are duel weilding - who are stick and dress and everything in between. There are plenty of guilds out there who are more interested in your output as opposed to your build.

Forestd16b14_ESO · September 2014

I play how i want and i don't have a problem. I play as a Dragon Knight who uses 2handed weapon to tank who also is a healer. I play as a DK healer-tank and eys i have filled the role of a healer and tank at the same time before ... explore your soul your skills and you can create what ever mix-match you want and it will work. Most important do not let gankers, try-hard, and the trolls tell you what you need to do this or that. This is Elder scrolls and it is not like other RPGs and now other MMORPGs you can play as you want as who you want. But only way you can do that is if you branch out and try it you will lose some battles and have to re-spawn here and there but that's the point to learn what skills YOU want to use not what "they" say and when you come in with your own skills your own play style and wreck everything you can tell "them" .................................................... "cheese for everyone".

StevK44_ESO · September 2014

Ruebs wrote: »

StevK44_ESO wrote: »

I don't see the problem. You used Impulse as a control test for average AoE and got within 200 DPS of it using an unconventional build. Impulse is specifically designed to be a super high DPS AoE spell. That's why you compared your playstyle to it.

Then what exactly is the point of all those other AoE's? They're just there to look cool?
My survivability was slightly higher with the Original Loadout but other then that, the spell's are completely obsolete.

The OL was within 200 DPS of the standard and gave you more survivability? What else is there? That sounds like you're complaining over nothing. The point of all those other AoE's is to give people the choice in which style of AoE spell and play they want to use.

Ruebs · September 2014

StevK44_ESO wrote: »

Ruebs wrote: »

StevK44_ESO wrote: »

I don't see the problem. You used Impulse as a control test for average AoE and got within 200 DPS of it using an unconventional build. Impulse is specifically designed to be a super high DPS AoE spell. That's why you compared your playstyle to it.

Then what exactly is the point of all those other AoE's? They're just there to look cool?
My survivability was slightly higher with the Original Loadout but other then that, the spell's are completely obsolete.

The OL was within 200 DPS of the standard and gave you more survivability? What else is there? That sounds like you're complaining over nothing. The point of all those other AoE's is to give people the choice in which style of AoE spell and play they want to use.

Did you even read my OP mate. I said spamming one button, works better then the well thoughout, well timed combination of moves. Any one of those moves alone wouldn't even be in the same league as Impulse.

Why would anyone choose anything other then Impluse? Therefore all the other AoE spell are obsolete.

Please read posts before replying.

Kego · September 2014

I can agree with the OP.
Impulse is way to strong and that is not only in PvE but in PvP a problem as well. The 24/7 Blob in Cyrodiil does nothing more than spamming Impulse and Ults. For those players, this game only needs a 2 Slot Character. The other 4 Slots are not used at all.

All AOE in this Game should work like Volley from Bow. A long duration Attack, that it can't be spammed on the run. Nothing more is stupid than an PBAOE Attack that can be spammed during running. Just for testing I would give Impule a casttime of 1 second.

BloodStorm · September 2014

Any impulse spammer is obsolete vs Blazing shield Templar. Course pvp is broken and melee will always be crappy. Then again in a world filled with magic only an idiot would go primitive caveman and use melee\ physical weapons in pve as well. Just my thoughts. Resto staff and destro staff will always dominate.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · September 2014

Impulse is the cancer of the PvP on this game.

Hoping ZoS would wake up one day and see that. But by that time the game will be only crammed only with the usual WoW crowd.

The best thing they can do, is while in Cyrodiil add 5 second cooldown to every ability.

Stamina builds will be working again, light and heavy attacks going to be useful again. No endless CC spamming. Brains will be needed behind the keyboards, not a monkey pressing a button.

And the game will go back how it was in beta. Battles lasting quite some time, no AoE blobs running around and was good fun.
Impulse and all late level abilities that have broken the PvP were non existent because everyone was level 10-20.

Ruebs · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Any impulse spammer is obsolete vs Blazing shield Templar.

Another good repellent of Impulse WAS Fragmented Shield. But ZoS knew that so they nerfed it. Now it's as obsolete as all the other AoE's.

Mondo · September 2014

Give Impuls a CD and done ^^

Sleep · September 2014

What will happen if Impulse is nerfed?

TehMagnus · September 2014

Thread should be renamed to: Play how ever you want, but be sure to QQ on forums when your snip builds don't cut it.

Ruebs · September 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Thread should be renamed to: Play how ever you want, but be sure to QQ on forums when your snip builds don't cut it.

Mate, i am an 'impluse build'. Along with many other builds. Trust me. I'm no noob to MMO's and I can run Impulse with the best of you. What I'm saying, is there's no truly viable alternative.

You may be content as a sheep, running around with your ginger-bread man. But i for one, am not.

Rodario · September 2014

This slogan is the worst mistake ZOS ever made. They should have foreseen how many people would take it literally, or at least use it as justification to complain about... well, anything really.

I guess the reason we're not seing many "Why can't I ride dragons while swinging mjölnir and obliterate armies with fire and lightning from above? Because that's the way I want to play!" posts, is that people realize it's just a slogan. They just like using it as an excuse to complain.

I'm not making a statement about your complaint OP, it's the argument I'm sick of hearing. It's an easy and lazy way to avoid using actual facts or logical arguments to elaborate a percieved issue.

Dekkameron · September 2014

I use Wall of elements (for when i'm coming in) then Power extraction (when i'm there) then some Pulsar spam. Job done. but that's on a nightblade of course.

TehMagnus · September 2014

Ruebs wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Thread should be renamed to: Play how ever you want, but be sure to QQ on forums when your snip builds don't cut it.

Mate, i am an 'impluse build'. Along with many other builds. Trust me. I'm no noob to MMO's and I can run Impulse with the best of you. What I'm saying, is there's no truly viable alternative.

You may be content as a sheep, running around with your ginger-bread man. But i for one, am not.

Well in trials it's the most op thing to do on trash adds, (then again there is bound to be one skill better than others). As for PVP, unless you're in a zerg group with all your buddies doing the same, it's useless on 1V1.

2 meatbags later, the zerg is going out of control and a couple of Negates + other ultis & bye bye. I don't use impulse in PVP, hate zerg groups, so instead of QQing on forums I try to l2P against em.

JD2013 · September 2014

They said play however you want, this is true.

Not once did they state every single build that every single player thought up would work.

killedbyping · September 2014

Just stop that nonsense with impulse... It is only good with DKs...
Other classess have much more powerfull skills for AOE

PBpsy · September 2014

So DKs can get 3k without impulse while others can't actually push 3k even with impulse? Maybe it's more be DK if you want to DPS.

Best I could get with a Sap Essence+Elemental ring +Siphoning attacks was 2.9k. I could get slightly more with Power Extraction+Elemental ring and no SA but then NB doesn't have GDB, Spiked armor,obsidian Shield and Inhale to stay alive.
Then again if everyone tried to do 1000 -2000 AOE DPS in dungeons ,trails no one would actually need 3k AOE-DPS. Maybe someday the dual wielders would learn to synchronize Steel Tornado with Impulse users.

killedbyping wrote: »

Just stop that nonsense with impulse... It is only good with DKs.
Other classess have much more powerfull skills for AOE

Which, what, whom?
From what I have seen with my V3 DK is that they have the best in class AOE. They really do not need a Destro staff to be AOE beasts. I doubt any other class can hit 3K without impulse and only very glass canon Dunmer NBs can get close to DK using impulse.
Inhale-Draw Essence
Fragmented Shield
Cinder Storm
SOM
Talons.
Inferno(even if it sucks)
and crapload of defensive skills to be able to survive going for good AOE.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2014

Ruebs wrote: »

Today i was testing some AoE Loadouts on my DK. I put together a Triple-Dot Loadout, Using, Fiery Breath- Flames of Oblivion- Cinderstorm- Draw Essence and Mage Light. Critting off 3 separate DoT's allows very quick Ultimate Gain. I could get a standard down every 11 seconds, and hit a top DPS of 3.1k.

I then decided to try out my LEVEL 3 Impulse, to get an idea on average AoE DPS. To my shock and disgust, i was able to get 3.3k dps by spamming ONE button.
My carefully constructed, perfectly timed AoE loadout (Above^) is made completely obsolete by one skill.

We were promised 'Play how you Like'. And it's true, you can. However if you want to be even slightly competitive, you have to run LA and Impluse.
|
Good luck getting into a Trial group! If you're not wielding a Desto Staff, you're officially not a DPS'er..

I'm not a Doomsayer, but the lack of viable variation is getting really, really boring.

P.S- Please keep in mind I was testing on Undead Creatures (Spellscar). DPS is considerably less on 'living' Creatures, due to the lack of Ulti gains and Fighters Guild passives.

@Ruebs, assume you mean Impulse and not Elemental Ring.

Also assume you are hitting 6 or more targets with each cast (for max effect).

This works out to 550 DPS/target which doesn't seem all that unreasonable depending on how many casts per second you're getting?

There needs to be more numbers here, how many you're fighting, which element you're using, etc.

You already mentioned you were fighting Undead. Assuming you're maxed on FG passives, so your numbers show more than a little bias...

Plus, how long was the timeframe your DPS was based off of? Were the monsters vulnerable to the element or resistant to it?

Too many missing pieces here to have constructive discussion.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

I get what OP is saying.

Impulse is over the top, imo. I don't use it in pvp, only in pve, partly on principle, because it drives me nuts when 5 guys are attacking me and they don't even have the decency to target me for the kill. Not that there is anything wrong with aoes, it just feels only slightly better than being shield bashed when you are the only enemy they have.

Fire ring is especially silly, I just bought that and need to level it up. That takes me out constantly.

That said, planning out a build for aoe'ing will still probably be better in the long run,because I suspect you don't just look at damage returns.

Vuron · September 2014

I guess the OP feels very strongly about this topic considering that he posted it in 2 different sub forums.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132270/if-you-dont-use-desto-staff-youre-officially-not-a-dpser

R1ckyDaMan · September 2014

Slightly off topic while on topic here:

Why do we need AOE's at all?

How would a modern mmorpg suffer if there was no AOE'S at all?

Tuttebel · September 2014

Ruebs wrote: »

StevK44_ESO wrote: »

I don't see the problem. You used Impulse as a control test for average AoE and got within 200 DPS of it using an unconventional build. Impulse is specifically designed to be a super high DPS AoE spell. That's why you compared your playstyle to it.

Then what exactly is the point of all those other AoE's? They're just there to look cool?
My survivability was slightly higher with the Original Loadout but other then that, the spell's are completely obsolete.

To allow you to play the way you want maybe?

Also, not all builts should be equal. There can be only one "best" way to do something. And that best way in this case is wearing light armor and using a staff, gear typically associated with magelike characters that are the biggest source of aoe damage in most games I played.

starkerealm · September 2014

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

Slightly off topic while on topic here:

Why do we need AOE's at all?

How would a modern mmorpg suffer if there was no AOE'S at all?

Crowd control in PvE content would be much harder. Think Dark Souls Online. Players would have to work really hard to juggle multiple enemies, and the occasional swarm would be an utter nightmare to survive.

PBpsy · September 2014

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

Slightly off topic while on topic here:

Why do we need AOE's at all?

How would a modern mmorpg suffer if there was no AOE'S at all?

Is AOE required for any MMO? No.If the game is designed from scratch not to have any AOE.

Is AOE required for TESO?
Yes since all end game group content is designed and balanced for efficient alternation between AOE DPS and single target DPS. This can be clearly seen in PUGs where you will always get some DW guy without Steel Tornado and some Bow guy that only uses snipe. Both of them they will maybe put down an ultimate once an entire run. In general that means a painful slow slog.

Kypho · September 2014

you for got to mention Light armor and lulstaff...