Decon now scales to character level, not crafting level...

MasterSpatula · September 2014

Yes, hyperbole is in fact generally considered a powerful didactic and literary tool. However, let's take apart the statement:

"No conceivable benefit." I've tried. I really have. Can't think of any benefit. Ergo, accurate.

"...no good person would have thought was a good idea..." Concept is a nuisance that adds neither fun nor interesting challenge to the game. The only reason reason I can conceive of for it to be in the game is the nuisance factor, which is something that only jerks would want to add to the game.

"...for even an instant." For just a moment, it is possible for a reasonable person to have thought this might present an interesting challenge or might be a logical mechanic. After thinking it through, though, said reasonable person would reject the notion. So clearly, this is hyperbole.

I guess you got me.

Nebthet78 · September 2014

SpAEkus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

My main is Vet11.... I created purple glyphs with one character and am deconstructing them with my main. They are both going up at the same level. As soon as my main hit level 35 enchanting, halfway through the level up bar I stopped gaining experience for deconstructing vet7-9 purple glyphs. This is BS!!! and had better be a bug. I don't care if I get mats back, but if I can't gain needed experience, then what is the point of trying to level this skill?

What level was the other crafter-ALT? Character and Enchanting.

I ask because last night I did all these glyphs on my main Crafter and my Alt Crafter deconned them so I wonder what time you started getting that result and whether I need to recheck some decons and update my data sheet. I have another person running a lot of the same lower glyphs but haven't seen his results yet.

Patch 1-4-3-preliminary-enchanting-craft-extract-ip-data

My Alt, who was creating the Vet7-9 purple glyphs is Vet 1 with level 35 enchant.

My Main who was deconstructing the Vet7-9 glyphs is Vet11 with level 35 enchant.

My issue is with not receiving EXPERIENCE when deconstructing after reaching halfway through level 35... I don't care if I receive mats back or not.

Roselle · September 2014

I just wanted to chime in here with my own words by saying I don't believe they really changed anything here. I often deconstructed items way above my alt's level and never received the VR mats at any time. I believe the note now just states why.

Unknown_poster · September 2014

The amount of hand-wringing and general "the sky is falling" posts on the forums on this issue shows exactly how much this change was needed.

SpAEkus · September 2014

Based on the Characters I was using on Gold Grand and Splendid, VR1 vs Level 9, you should have had no issues?

What I was seeing is different results in IP as my level 9 gained Enchant level and added Aspect and Aspect extraction skill, but he always returned IP.

I will test one tonight as well to see if they changed something from last night.

badmojo · September 2014

It has always been this way, I've posted about it in the past.

I am just... over it.

You still get the upgrade mats, trait & race material too, you just don't get the stuff it's made of. Sucks that I lose out on a ton of gold from selling those materials.

All I can think is that ZOS has some stupid hangup about people power leveling their crafts by trading high level items, to the point where they would rather punish honest players. I think the only reason they added the message in this patch was so people aren't so surprised that they're being screwed out of materials when they find out it's happening.

What they need to do, is create a deconstructing system like the trait researching system. So, when you go to deconstruct items you have like 20 slots to add items to be deconstructed, and then they are deconstructed over time. When you come back the next day(or later) you collect your materials and put more in for deconstruction. That way the power leveling dagger traders can't just sit there and deconstruct/construct a million items a day. But, those of us who have low level crafters get the materials we are entitled to.

UrQuan · September 2014

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Yes, hyperbole is in fact generally considered a powerful didactic and literary tool.

As someone who worked in a customer service related job for over 10 years (most of that time as a supervisor or manager), and who frequently had to deal with complaints - often escalating them to people above me, I can tell you that people who filled their complaints with hyperbole were way more likely to be dismissed as clueless fools who didn't know what they were talking about and had nothing legitimate to complain about. It doesn't matter if your complaint is legitimate if nobody takes it seriously because you're being ridiculous about it.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

However, let's take apart the statement:

"No conceivable benefit." I've tried. I really have. Can't think of any benefit. Ergo, accurate.

Here's a conceivable benefit:

starkerealm wrote: »

I suspect, to deal with players that were powerleveling the motif crafting skills. Particularly blacksmiths trading daggers for decon and getting to 50 in no time.

But since you couldn't think of it, then surely it is inconceivable. OK, you got me, it wasn't ridiculous hyperbole.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

"...no good person would have thought was a good idea..." Concept is a nuisance that adds neither fun nor interesting challenge to the game. The only reason reason I can conceive of for it to be in the game is the nuisance factor, which is something that only jerks would want to add to the game.

Once again, here's a reason why a good person could have thought it was a good idea:

starkerealm wrote: »

I suspect, to deal with players that were powerleveling the motif crafting skills. Particularly blacksmiths trading daggers for decon and getting to 50 in no time.

But again, because you personally couldn't conceive of that particular reason, it's obviously invalid, so only a jerk could have possibly come up with it. Yup, you got me again. Totally not ridiculous hyperbole on your part.

SpAEkus · September 2014

@Nebthet78‌

Okay I just crafted a Gold Splendid with my VR1 Level 40 Enchanter and my L9 Level 35 Enchanter deconned it for 21304 IP. And my L9 got the Rede rune back.

I would definitely bug your results if you haven't already.

Nebthet78 · September 2014

SpAEkus wrote: »

@Nebthet78‌

Okay I just crafted a Gold Splendid with my VR1 Level 40 Enchanter and my L9 Level 35 Enchanter deconned it for 21304 IP. And my L9 got the Rede rune back.

I would definitely bug your results if you haven't already.

Once I noticed and double checked what was going on I sent in a bug report. Here is hoping they actually do something about it though.

Probitas · September 2014

I've said it before and I don't think it can't be said enough. If a character has the ability to make said item, then taking it apart should not be an issue, regardless of character level, since the ability to make something is not a direct relationship with the ability to fight, in game terms. The two are separate and distinct systems, and tying them together is a really poor attempt to force people to level their characters and possibly have to PVP. [snip] stupid in my mind.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Marthenil · September 2014

So can someone confirm/deny as I'm currently boosting a low level alt's profs:
Upgrade mats are still untouched, no? It's only for the ingots/wood/whatever, right?
I mostly decon for the upgrade mats so that shouldn't affect me.

Mendoze · September 2014

I have never gotten back any void cloths or similar when I'm increasing my alts crafting skills to get more hirelings. They could decon lvl 1-10 items just fine and got some jute back, but never those higher level materials. I always thought that's because they don't have 9/9 in tailoring or whatever. Sounds really weird if you don't get materials back, even if you have 50 skill and 9/9 in profession level, just because your character level is too low. Sounds like a bug to me but I have no idea if this a new one.

R1ckyDaMan · September 2014

On my lowbie crafters I I do get resins etc back and trait stones on all items for that craft I dcon, I have some stuff in the bank I will try later to see what this message you mention is about.

KhajiitiLizard · September 2014

I deconstructed VR12 items with my VR2 (now VR3) and still got materials, but that was a few weeks ago... But this was to level crafting level and I didn't care too much about getting materials back.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · September 2014

Tootall2186 wrote: »

I, like many other people, have my main and one or a few crafting alts. None of my crafters are character level 16 or higher. But they are 50 in their profession with all the research done and every single one of their crafting skill lines maxed, and motifs learned.... But now when I go to break down purple vet gear, we get a lovely message saying we're not higher enough level to receive mats. Or something along those lines..

My mid-level 20 smith never got ingots from level 50 items even with a capped craft and all skills/passive maxed till he was level 40+, and only very occasionally got anything at all.

I see nothing different here than I saw months ago.

Oxtale · September 2014

so if I level all my crafting alts to vr 1 will I get mats from all levels or do I have to go to max vr ?

starkerealm · September 2014

Oxtale wrote: »

so if I level all my crafting alts to vr 1 will I get mats from all levels or do I have to go to max vr ?

VR1 is probably enough, but I can't be 100% certain.

Faulgor · September 2014

badmojo wrote: »

It has always been this way, I've posted about it in the past.

No, I'm 100% positive I deconed Galatite heavy armor with my level 30+ / smithing 16 Redguard and received Galatite ingots, frequently, before this patch (1.4.3).

Slurg · September 2014

I am pretty sure it has not always been this way, but am uncertain when the change was made because it was not documented in the patch notes. I am getting tired of these changes that show up that we are not informed about and have to discover on our own. If a feature is intentionally changed it needs to be documented.

Ourorboros · September 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Wait, really? I guess I'm lucky that my main is also my primary crafter (I started doing most crafting skills on him before I went down the rabbit hole and created an army of alts). I guess I'll also have to level my secondary crafter - she's currently only level 26. I'm not sure what the reasoning is on this, and frankly I don't really understand why this change would be made.

I suspect, to deal with players that were powerleveling the motif crafting skills. Particularly blacksmiths trading daggers for decon and getting to 50 in no time. Though, Clothiers and Woodworkers had their own. (I'm not sure what the woodworker item of choice was.)

Highly unlikely,if this was a change and not a bug, that it has anything to do with players trading items for decon to level. Not only has this been the basic mechanic to leveling since beta testing, but also seems part of game design to encourage group play. If this was an intentional change for some other reason, ZOS bunged this by not clearly communicating the forthcoming change.

Evandus · September 2014

Well... I'm a little disappointed overall I guess. I specifically made my crafter as a mule, with no intent on leveling him to V12. I stopped leveling him at 47, because he had all of the skills I wanted him to have at that point.

Finishing up Alikir and Bankorai is no big deal. Same for Coldharbour. There are skill point gains to be had in that. But I'm definitely feeling somewhat defiant on the concept of having to level through the vet content with a flippin crafter in order for him to be fully functional. I've enough issues forcing myself to do vet content on my main and three alts. It's a gigantic chore that I'm not fond of.

So, I get that someone on the development team doesn't like level 3 crafting mules. Extending the bar to where one is forced through content they don't want to have to do is really really irritating.

I think this stance should be reconsidered by the powers that be.

Merlight · September 2014

Ourorboros wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Wait, really? I guess I'm lucky that my main is also my primary crafter (I started doing most crafting skills on him before I went down the rabbit hole and created an army of alts). I guess I'll also have to level my secondary crafter - she's currently only level 26. I'm not sure what the reasoning is on this, and frankly I don't really understand why this change would be made.

I suspect, to deal with players that were powerleveling the motif crafting skills. Particularly blacksmiths trading daggers for decon and getting to 50 in no time. Though, Clothiers and Woodworkers had their own. (I'm not sure what the woodworker item of choice was.)

Highly unlikely,if this was a change and not a bug, that it has anything to do with players trading items for decon to level. Not only has this been the basic mechanic to leveling since beta testing, but also seems part of game design to encourage group play. If this was an intentional change for some other reason, ZOS bunged this by not clearly communicating the forthcoming change.

I can't see how the current mechanic discourages group play. If you're a high level crafter, and have a friend who just started, you can make some items near their level, they decon, level up their crafting so they can craft their own gear, and that's it. Above that, it's powerleveling a crafting profession - you can still do that, but there's a penalty of no mats returned. Like I wrote somewhere else, I was surprised when I had no wood because I deconned all wood items with a low alt, but just accepted it. It's a valid mechanic IMO.

Ourorboros · September 2014

Merlight wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Wait, really? I guess I'm lucky that my main is also my primary crafter (I started doing most crafting skills on him before I went down the rabbit hole and created an army of alts). I guess I'll also have to level my secondary crafter - she's currently only level 26. I'm not sure what the reasoning is on this, and frankly I don't really understand why this change would be made.

I suspect, to deal with players that were powerleveling the motif crafting skills. Particularly blacksmiths trading daggers for decon and getting to 50 in no time. Though, Clothiers and Woodworkers had their own. (I'm not sure what the woodworker item of choice was.)

Highly unlikely,if this was a change and not a bug, that it has anything to do with players trading items for decon to level. Not only has this been the basic mechanic to leveling since beta testing, but also seems part of game design to encourage group play. If this was an intentional change for some other reason, ZOS bunged this by not clearly communicating the forthcoming change.

I can't see how the current mechanic discourages group play. If you're a high level crafter, and have a friend who just started, you can make some items near their level, they decon, level up their crafting so they can craft their own gear, and that's it. Above that, it's powerleveling a crafting profession - you can still do that, but there's a penalty of no mats returned. Like I wrote somewhere else, I was surprised when I had no wood because I deconned all wood items with a low alt, but just accepted it. It's a valid mechanic IMO.

Why are you quoting me? I said "seems part of game design to encourage group play" What's not clear?

Merlight · September 2014

Because there's absolutely no connection between group play and deconstructing items high above your level.

SantieClaws · September 2014

They should either allow you to have viable crafting alts that you don't have to max out - or they should provide a means for one character to be able to max out all crafts. They have said from the start that really any one character should only specialise in one or two crafts so of course people are going to have crafting alts. Why make it so very complicated to be effective at many crafts when crafting is so important to gameplay and the game economy? Play the way you like - ok I like to be able to utilise all crafts - so one way or the other let me do it without having to give up work and sleep and all existence outside the game.

Ourorboros · September 2014

Merlight wrote: »

Because there's absolutely no connection between group play and deconstructing items high above your level.

And I never suggested there was. My post responded to a suggestion this change had to do with players trading items for decon. Did you read the full post before blazing a response?

guybrushtb16_ESO · September 2014

I just had the same issue. I shipped some green/white stuff from my levelling alt to my vet2 crafter, and apparently he didn't get any notable experience from deconning them even though they were appropriate to his crafting (but not for his character) level. I'm definitely sure that this wasn't the case before, and frankly, it is quite annoying.

theyancey · September 2014

Just another dagger to the solo PvE player's heart. The phone wait time to unsub is over an hour. LOL

Makkir · September 2014

This was disappointing to discover but I guess it's going to temporarily increase the value or purple and yellow crafting tempers

zhevon · September 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

Sounds really weird if you don't get materials back, even if you have 50 skill and 9/9 in profession level, just because your character level is too low. Sounds like a bug to me but I have no idea if this a new one.

I agree - as long as you have put points in the construction to deal with the material you should get the mats back; character level should not matter. If its otherwise is nonsensical.

theyancey wrote: »

Just another dagger to the solo PvE player's heart. The phone wait time to unsub is over an hour. LOL

Can't you unsub online?