Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

rook75 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am downloading archeage right now. A good friend will be playing it too, so maybe I will give it a shot. Not 100% sold yet (the founder armor looks sexist as hell, I would aim right for that lady's crotch because it has no armor other than that loin cloth) I have heard it's hard to get a leg up if you don't get in on the ground floor. So we'll see. It releases today in a couple of hours I think.

I will be reconsidering my paid sub to this game, but I am not completely giving up yet. It is really hard to switch to a new game when you are already established on another one.

I'm doing the same.. especially as ZOS hasn't said a DAMNED thing about this.

Redonculous!

My concern is that Rift is pay to win and I am not sure if archeage is too. That said, it was handled well with rift so it may not completely turn me off to it.

When I left Rift 6 months ago it was not P2W. You could get BIS in game but only sub-BIS in store, and I never spent a penny in the store, but still raided and beat nearly all end-game content.

As far as F2P goes, Trion handled it quite well and I had no issues with their model. But I did have issues with the attitude of the players that started to appear, so I quit and moved here.

Yea F2P does that. There's no other sub games I want to play and sandbox stuff is so much nicer than themepark.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

polar wrote: »

Stealth is now broken for me too. I often cant feed- I get detected before the option comes up (and I am a 7 piece medium NB vamp with all passives), mobs detect me much further out than they did before 1.4 (I enter a room I used to be able to sneak through and they are on me) and after hearing another of my guild members mention that it is even worse in Cyrodiil, I tested it out and sure enough... it is worse there. I cant snipe an NPC from stealth. Even at that range I am detected before I can get a shot off. I am really curious what it is that the developers have against nightblades....or are they punishing us for complaining about the broken cloaks? I gotta admit that I am just about ready to step away from the game. It is to the point that it is causing more frustration than fun.

Thank you for testing this as well. I hope they see its affecting many of us.

NgeneR · September 2014

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Silver Shards is now switched to use stamina (according to the patch notes). That works for other classes who don't use stamina for their abilities, but screws NB one more time.

I like my NB, but playing her is getting harder and harder. Alternating between bow and DW, though, is getting difficult. Bows work well on one or two mobs. Most of the time both are dead before they get to me, but larger groups are a problem. For that, I did use DW, but that's not so easy any more.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

NgeneR wrote: »

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Silver Shards is now switched to use stamina (according to the patch notes). That works for other classes who don't use stamina for their abilities, but screws NB one more time.

I like my NB, but playing her is getting harder and harder. Alternating between bow and DW, though, is getting difficult. Bows work well on one or two mobs. Most of the time both are dead before they get to me, but larger groups are a problem. For that, I did use DW, but that's not so easy any more.

silver shards has always used stamina...

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

rook75 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am downloading archeage right now. A good friend will be playing it too, so maybe I will give it a shot. Not 100% sold yet (the founder armor looks sexist as hell, I would aim right for that lady's crotch because it has no armor other than that loin cloth) I have heard it's hard to get a leg up if you don't get in on the ground floor. So we'll see. It releases today in a couple of hours I think.

I will be reconsidering my paid sub to this game, but I am not completely giving up yet. It is really hard to switch to a new game when you are already established on another one.

I'm doing the same.. especially as ZOS hasn't said a DAMNED thing about this.

Redonculous!

That game actually looks pretty cool.

Thudunblundur · September 2014

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Silver Shards is now switched to use stamina (according to the patch notes).

Think you've misread that one - I think it now does damage off Stamina not Magicka and crits off weapon crit not spell crit but the cost is exactly the same as it was (this is off the top of my head - not going to wade through the patch notes again!) So it ought to be better for stamina flavoured NBs with big weapon crits.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

rook75 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am downloading archeage right now. A good friend will be playing it too, so maybe I will give it a shot. Not 100% sold yet (the founder armor looks sexist as hell, I would aim right for that lady's crotch because it has no armor other than that loin cloth) I have heard it's hard to get a leg up if you don't get in on the ground floor. So we'll see. It releases today in a couple of hours I think.

I will be reconsidering my paid sub to this game, but I am not completely giving up yet. It is really hard to switch to a new game when you are already established on another one.

I'm doing the same.. especially as ZOS hasn't said a DAMNED thing about this.

Redonculous!

My concern is that Rift is pay to win and I am not sure if archeage is too. That said, it was handled well with rift so it may not completely turn me off to it.

When I left Rift 6 months ago it was not P2W. You could get BIS in game but only sub-BIS in store, and I never spent a penny in the store, but still raided and beat nearly all end-game content.

As far as F2P goes, Trion handled it quite well and I had no issues with their model. But I did have issues with the attitude of the players that started to appear, so I quit and moved here.

Yea F2P does that. There's no other sub games I want to play and sandbox stuff is so much nicer than themepark.

I'm so disappointed that ESO ended up being a themepark.

raglau · September 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

rook75 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am downloading archeage right now. A good friend will be playing it too, so maybe I will give it a shot. Not 100% sold yet (the founder armor looks sexist as hell, I would aim right for that lady's crotch because it has no armor other than that loin cloth) I have heard it's hard to get a leg up if you don't get in on the ground floor. So we'll see. It releases today in a couple of hours I think.

I will be reconsidering my paid sub to this game, but I am not completely giving up yet. It is really hard to switch to a new game when you are already established on another one.

I'm doing the same.. especially as ZOS hasn't said a DAMNED thing about this.

Redonculous!

That game actually looks pretty cool.

We shall soon see, as I am downloading it right now.

R0M2K · September 2014

Guys, stay on topic.

No words from @Zos about this issue?

kitsinni · September 2014

R0M2K wrote: »

Guys, stay on topic.

No words from @Zos about this issue?

Yeah right it's about Nightblades. On the other hand make a thread about even walking funny holding a staff and they will be in there instantly.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

To be fair any NBs still here aren't going anywhere, if we're still here now then we'll pretty much put up with anything.

polar · September 2014

I dont know... I am a pretty committed person that will stick with games far longer than most but I find myself more and more drawn to go elsewhere. Similarly, I tend to stay committed to playing one toon (been playing my NB since early access). If my toon is not optimal, that's ok, I am not going to reroll just to have the optimal build at that moment. I am not the fastest or strongest in real life either and I am just fine with that. But, when the devs break the toon over and over making it progressively worse- well, it just looses the fun and takes away any incentive to stay.

Arsenic_Touch · September 2014

Pibbles wrote: »

When I left Rift 6 months ago it was not P2W. You could get BIS in game but only sub-BIS in store, and I never spent a penny in the store, but still raided and beat nearly all end-game content.

As far as F2P goes, Trion handled it quite well and I had no issues with their model. But I did have issues with the attitude of the players that started to appear, so I quit and moved here.

Heh.... you haven't been paying attention to Trion lately. They're all about pay to win now. Rift was fine until they allowed you to buy the best pvp gear(yes you still need the rank to use it but allow players to buy the best gear is just ridiculous). Defiance has been up and down with pay to win, they introduce pay to win instances for months and then remove them and then bring them back. I look forward to seeing all the complaints about archeage when people realize who they're in bed with. The labor points... oh boy.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

R0M2K wrote: »

Guys, stay on topic.

No words from @Zos about this issue?

Thank you, and no word from them yet. I really hope this turns out to be unintentional.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

polar wrote: »

I dont know... I am a pretty committed person that will stick with games far longer than most but I find myself more and more drawn to go elsewhere. Similarly, I tend to stay committed to playing one toon (been playing my NB since early access). If my toon is not optimal, that's ok, I am not going to reroll just to have the optimal build at that moment. I am not the fastest or strongest in real life either and I am just fine with that. But, when the devs break the toon over and over making it progressively worse- well, it just looses the fun and takes away any incentive to stay.

Same here, I was one of the first to join in beta from the start, I have only played NB and am committed to that build and the RP value. And like you said, I know I wont be able to do what Sorcs or Dks can do, its about fun and the experience being a NB brings, but now its just less fun to me.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Hate to disappoint those of you who want to play Archeage, though maybe you won't care.

Besides being graphically awful and having this horrible thing with the camera and having to turn it with separate controls, they censor curse words, but couldn't be *** to put in a censor for the N word or the F word (not the fu...one.)

People on the faction channel had the unmitigated gall to be offended and call me a snitch when I asked how to report them. No Mr. Donkeylips, it's not okay for you to use those words.

Anyway, that put a nail in the coffin for me, not even going to give it a full chance.

If I decide to give up ESO I will just play single player games I guess.

raglau · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

If I decide to give up ESO I will just play single player games I guess.

Yeah there are quite a few single players coming out shortly that I am interested in, so I am thinking I'll be ramping down ESO until ZOS have made some headway with the game.

I like it as a game, but its too broken right now and I think they need time to stabilise it, and to give the game some direction. Perhaps come back for DB and TG.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Sadly if they are going to actually fix this game they need the sub revenue. That's the reason I am sticking it out. Maybe they need a lot of time to fix many problems they have created, but there are certain things they could do right away. For instance they could start by having their community reps answer our questions in a faster, more straight forward manner. I do not want to hear that yes we see a problem it will be fixed at some undetermined time. With absolutely no updates and months passing without resolution. I know they are there because heaven forbid I insult someone by calling them a troll I get a nice message in my inbox telling me I'm not being nice. What they really should do is start taking surveys from us. Ask us what we want this game to be like. Ask us what's important to us to be fixed. They trod along like they doing this great job. Guess what, you're not. Not even close. I want this game to succeed but you guys need to let go of your hubris and start making this game work.

michaelb14a_ESO2 · September 2014

polar wrote: »

Stealth is now broken for me too. I often cant feed- I get detected before the option comes up (and I am a 7 piece medium NB vamp with all passives), mobs detect me much further out than they did before 1.4 (I enter a room I used to be able to sneak through and they are on me) and after hearing another of my guild members mention that it is even worse in Cyrodiil, I tested it out and sure enough... it is worse there. I cant snipe an NPC from stealth. Even at that range I am detected before I can get a shot off. I am really curious what it is that the developers have against nightblades....or are they punishing us for complaining about the broken cloaks? I gotta admit that I am just about ready to step away from the game. It is to the point that it is causing more frustration than fun.

I think we are seeing a few things at work here, changes to a multitude of mechanics to improve the NB class. This is I THINK they are trying to do here:

It seems that there has been an across the board "nerf" to crouch-sneak (specifically detect distance). I believe this was done to address the "anyone can sneak" and play stealth problem. By lowering the base effectiveness of stealth-sneak the intention is to raise the value of things like med armor passives, NB abilities and set bonuses that reduce detect radius. This is really an attempt to give us what we are asking for... make the stealth build/spec something viable and different rather than "anyone can do it". It gives NB something to specialize at and define the class.

I believe what we are seeing is the blatant across the board nerf to stealth- sneak (which we do want) and some bugs in how reduction in detect bonus *not or incorrectly* being applied.

In closing I will say again, NB's DO WANT sneak-stealth nerfed down (it's stupid that all classes and armor can all equally stealth at the same level. It just has has to be in tandem with increasing a NB's and armor's ability to increase their ability to stealth more effectively then anyone else.

edit: ugh grammar and spelling, just woke up

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

polar wrote: »

Stealth is now broken for me too. I often cant feed- I get detected before the option comes up (and I am a 7 piece medium NB vamp with all passives), mobs detect me much further out than they did before 1.4 (I enter a room I used to be able to sneak through and they are on me) and after hearing another of my guild members mention that it is even worse in Cyrodiil, I tested it out and sure enough... it is worse there. I cant snipe an NPC from stealth. Even at that range I am detected before I can get a shot off. I am really curious what it is that the developers have against nightblades....or are they punishing us for complaining about the broken cloaks? I gotta admit that I am just about ready to step away from the game. It is to the point that it is causing more frustration than fun.

I think we are seeing a few things at work here, changes to a multitude of mechanics to improve the NB class. This is I THINK they are trying to do here:

It seems that there has been an accords the board "nerf" to crouch-sneak (specifically detect distance). I believe this was done to address the "anyone can sneak" and play stealth problem. By lowering the base effectiveness of stealth-sneak the intention is to raise the value of things like med armor passives, NB abilities and set bonuses that reduce detect radius. This is really an attempt to give us what we are asking for... make the stealth build/spec something viable and different rather than "anyone can do it". It gives NB something to specialize at and define the class.

I believe what we are seeing is the blatant across the board nerf to stealth- sneak (which we do want) and some bugs in how reduction in detect bonus *not or incorrectly* being applied.

In closing I will say again, NB's DO WANT sneak-stealth nerfed down (it's stupid that all classes and armor can all equally stealth at the same level. It just has has to be in tandem with increasing a NB's and armor's ability to increase its power substantially.

This is well said.

I didn't see anything like that in the patch notes. But if that is the intent it is going in the right direction.

However, waiting a week for the fix is just terrible and continues to support my contempt and jadedness for the system.

polar · September 2014

I agree, if that was their intention, then I wouldn't be as frustrated. If it was in the patch notes, than I would believe that it was their intention and just needs to be fixed. However, it is not in the patch notes, so there is no real indication that they were trying to help NB. Rather, it seems like another screw you to NB or at least a lack of care around breaking another NB ability that will get little or no attention.

rook75 · September 2014

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

polar wrote: »

Stealth is now broken for me too. I often cant feed- I get detected before the option comes up (and I am a 7 piece medium NB vamp with all passives), mobs detect me much further out than they did before 1.4 (I enter a room I used to be able to sneak through and they are on me) and after hearing another of my guild members mention that it is even worse in Cyrodiil, I tested it out and sure enough... it is worse there. I cant snipe an NPC from stealth. Even at that range I am detected before I can get a shot off. I am really curious what it is that the developers have against nightblades....or are they punishing us for complaining about the broken cloaks? I gotta admit that I am just about ready to step away from the game. It is to the point that it is causing more frustration than fun.

I think we are seeing a few things at work here, changes to a multitude of mechanics to improve the NB class. This is I THINK they are trying to do here:

It seems that there has been an accords the board "nerf" to crouch-sneak (specifically detect distance). I believe this was done to address the "anyone can sneak" and play stealth problem. By lowering the base effectiveness of stealth-sneak the intention is to raise the value of things like med armor passives, NB abilities and set bonuses that reduce detect radius. This is really an attempt to give us what we are asking for... make the stealth build/spec something viable and different rather than "anyone can do it". It gives NB something to specialize at and define the class.

I believe what we are seeing is the blatant across the board nerf to stealth- sneak (which we do want) and some bugs in how reduction in detect bonus *not or incorrectly* being applied.

In closing I will say again, NB's DO WANT sneak-stealth nerfed down (it's stupid that all classes and armor can all equally stealth at the same level. It just has has to be in tandem with increasing a NB's and armor's ability to increase its power substantially.

While I think you are right... they did NOTHING to compensate or exaggerate NB's abilities (which is just a high handed Stealth nerf, that completely breaks the game). I am a VR12 Khajit (stealth Racials) in full vr12 Med gear and obviously all points added. My stealth completely fails at 20m if I am in the forward arc of a mob, behind I get seen and can't even feed... much less get a Surprise attack off.

Additionally they did not post it in ANYWAY to Patch notes. That is possibly the absolute worst thing I feel was done. As a Systems Administrator if I made changes that affected my company's customers (or lord forbid an outage) and did not notify them? I would be fired. On the spot, no questions asked. My company and customers expect a level of uptime (gametime if you will or SLA's if you want to get ITIL technical) and I would easily roll back any changes if something didn't work as intended, DB and backups are glorious for that..... ALWAYS have A BACK OUT PLAN.

There is no excuse for this mess. Either ZOS broke something SO BAD, but refuse to acknowledge it in anyway, or they made a sweeping gamechanging change and refuse to tell their customers, and honestly I couldn't tell which is worse... ignorance and refusal to acknowledge or stupidity and refusal to acknowledge.

It irritates the hell out of me that they refuse to acknowledge this issue and will not just get it fixed. I get no sense of urgency in responses and it seems they just... do... not... care.

Edit: Cuz I am dumb.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

As you guys said above, I wouldn't mind them raise detection so other classes cant sneak as good as us, but something is very wrong since my maxed NB and a Level 3 new character get the same benefit lol.

Its as if they made all enemies more alert and all sneak abilities for NBs has stopped.

Probitas · September 2014

I think the quest to balance has gotten crazy to the point that they consider character addons like vamp to classes selected at creation, and because some players choose to be vampire NB they have to adjust NB to prevent OP.

Of course what happens to those that aren't vamps? They get the Official Golden Royal Screw.

Linear thinking abounds. Oh well. We can't do a thing about it. It's their game, and they can run it into the ground if they wish. I think it's insane that in only a few months they had to increase the upper level limit due to the power gamers without an actual expansion.

I think some of us may have assumed that this game had something else to offer beyond PVP at high level, and I'm starting to think that is not the case and never was intended. Sure, add a few dungeons, but after you have done them, then what? Grind bus? Still no player housing, still a *** poor economy, and that's just only two mentioned problems.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Probitas wrote: »

I think the quest to balance has gotten crazy to the point that they consider character addons like vamp to classes selected at creation, and because some players choose to be vampire NB they have to adjust NB to prevent OP.

Of course what happens to those that aren't vamps? They get the Official Golden Royal Screw.

Linear thinking abounds. Oh well. We can't do a thing about it. It's their game, and they can run it into the ground if they wish. I think it's insane that in only a few months they had to increase the upper level limit due to the power gamers without an actual expansion.

I think some of us may have assumed that this game had something else to offer beyond PVP at high level, and I'm starting to think that is not the case and never was intended. Sure, add a few dungeons, but after you have done them, then what? Grind bus? Still no player housing, still a *** poor economy, and that's just only two problems.

I don't know why you singled out pvp, all the content updates have been pve.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

Since previous attempts failed, and we fill ignored
Im not concerned about the "correctness" of this post. But there are many paying customers here that need some answers please.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_MichaelServotte
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_AmeliaR
@ZOS_UlyssesW
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_AlanG
Im sure one of you is available

Probitas · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I don't know why you singled out pvp, all the content updates have been pve.

damn dude, you had that thing quoted before my page even finished refreshing after the post.

And I didn't single out PVP. I mentioned it because it seems PVE adjustments are all done with an eye towards PVP balancing, surely you don't expect anyone to think they had to adjust the radius of sneak against NPCs do you?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Wouldn't it be awesome if the actual devs cared enough to answer our questions like they do for the reddit people?

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Wouldn't it be awesome if the actual devs cared enough to answer our questions like they do for the reddit people?

We pay their salaries, Id like to think so.

Sneak_Thief · September 2014

Probitas wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I don't know why you singled out pvp, all the content updates have been pve.

damn dude, you had that thing quoted before my page even finished refreshing after the post.

And I didn't single out PVP. I mentioned it because it seems PVE adjustments are all done with an eye towards PVP balancing, surely you don't expect anyone to think they had to adjust the radius of sneak against NPCs do you?

You are correct here. Seems like all changes are made with pvp in mind, and I dont even pvp.

Edit: They problem is ZOS thinks the pinnacle of ESO is pvp /laugh. I just want to play solo experience with a spouse. We wanted multiplayer Elder Scrolls, not so much mmo, but we are giving it a shot.