Shield....

Murmeltier · September 2014

I hope they dont change the Blocksystem, it is fully ok to block 360°. It is an Fantasy Game where Players runs like Horses (Speedbuffs) and throw deadly Spells or Dozens of Dagger around.

In Films like Troja and 300 you see Warriors who are highly trained in 1h+Shield. They fight against several Enemys around them, hold their Shields over their Head or to the Back to protect them all around. They look and move with the Enemys, know the Tactics.

If you see a Player who skilled their 1h+Shield, remember this is a trained Warrior. The 360° blocking simulates this Skill you cant do on your own, because the Game is to clumsy for that. You cant simulate this Moves, it is like Ballet so the 360° Block is the Way to show the skill.

For me every Player should get a massive Hitpointbuff and use the Blocksystem, to avoid a fast Dead. So PvP Battles can last longer. This *i want to kill all and fast asap* Mentality destroys fine Tactics. Let the Players tank, let them being a Fortress so the other Player have to think and use a Tactic to win.

MFG Murmeltier

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DDuke · September 2014

Murmeltier wrote: »

I hope they dont change the Blocksystem, it is fully ok to block 360°. It is an Fantasy Game where Players runs like Horses (Speedbuffs) and throw deadly Spells or Dozens of Dagger around.

In Films like Troja and 300 you see Warriors who are highly trained in 1h+Shield. They fight against several Enemys around them, hold their Shields over their Head or to the Back to protect them all around. They look and move with the Enemys, know the Tactics.

If you see a Player who skilled their 1h+Shield, remember this is a trained Warrior. The 360° blocking simulates this Skill you cant do on your own, because the Game is to clumsy for that. You cant simulate this Moves, it is like Ballet so the 360° Block is the Way to show the skill.

And this is why something like 360° blocking should be a skill, not a passive ability available from lvl 1. Having block cover all angles without any effort means there's less skillful play involved. If you get surrounded, you're likely dead, unless you roll dodge (yeah, that thing exists) or something to keep the enemies infront of you.

It would also be more along the lines of past Elder Scrolls games.

Murmeltier wrote: »

For me every Player should get a massive Hitpointbuff and use the Blocksystem, to avoid a fast Dead. So PvP Battles can last longer. This *i want to kill all and fast asap* Mentality destroys fine Tactics. Let the Players tank, let them being a Fortress so the other Player have to think and use a Tactic to win.

MFG Murmeltier .

This is exactly what shouldn't happen. You shouldn't force people to build their characters in a certain way. Not everyone enjoys playing a "turtle", which is why there should be incentives to not do so (or penalty for doing so).

Changes like directional block could take a long time to implement, but there are smaller things which need fixing first.

For instance, no stamina based AoEs can pass through block (whirlwind, cleave etc), which only makes stamina builds *even worse* and keeps people impulse spamming instead.

JaJaLuka · September 2014

The only problem for directional blocking is no player collision. your enemy will run straight through you instead of around you and start hitting from behind. On top of that your character doesn't turn without walking at the same time, so there is no way to track movement to tank properly. I don't however agree with casting while blocking. That's bs, makes some builds nearly impossible to beat.

butterfly442 · September 2014

It should be...

block something.

or kill something.

Not both.

jvh808 · September 2014

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Because the idea is that you're in defensive mode, and just because they don't have an animation of the Shield bearer pivoting to block rearward attacks, I think that is the intended idea. Holding block is meant to represent defensive mode, and actively using your shield as opposed to passive use. It sucks up your stamina every time you're hit, so there's the balance. Seriously, don't hate on tanks, just because you ran into an Emperor one time with batswarm or standard or Blazing or the like.

If that is the case, then it needs to be reworded and changed into an actual 'mode' the tank can toggle.

Blocking/Parrying is directional, period, there is no valid argument that can change that fact. Before anyone tries to give the argument of the fact it is a game or that it's fantasy/fiction, you need first consider that the physics in ESO, while not perfect and have some flaws, are as close to actual physics as they possibly can be.

I agree that changing too much in the tanking system may very well hurt PvErs, but frankly, it is broken in PvE also... This NEEDS to be changed, if it is not changed, then the ability to use instant abilities/spells while blocking needs to be removed. Also, having those Heavy attacks which off-balance the attacker and leave the defender with no negative effects should seriously be changed. That type of wind up attack should absolutely have an effect such as a disarm of either shield (shield block) or weapon (parry) as a negative effect to the defender, leaving the off-balance state on attacker would be fine with this change in place.

Digiman · September 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Heaven forbid an actual tank mechanic be effective in PvP!

This sorta actually makes sense. The guy blocking is losing stamina but I do agree that blocking should be directional at least for PvP. I guess the idea is that even if he is blocking he isn't really going to do any heavy attacking unless he lets down his block.

rophez_ESO · September 2014

I'm a DK and I play a tank-type in PVP. I can survive a long time with a few people beating on me, but I give up a lot for that survivability. I slot few DPS abilities, and my gear is focused on defense. Sure, I can last a long time, but if the 3 or 4 people beating on me are careful, I probably won't kill any of them before I die.

Epsilon_Echo · September 2014

Kego wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

The number of skilled tanks I have torn in half like a dry noodle pack numbers in the 100s if not more. Just run them out of stamina. Blocking is a defensive tactical move just like anything else with its own downsides and upsides. It doubles as a psychological move when someone who THINKS they are a good DPS does a full rotation with little to no damage and then looses their cool thinking their opponent is OP instead of gauging the situation and making the tactical choice to attack their opponents resource pools instead of just throwing DPS around like dirty laundry.

Its a game, and if you think blocking is OP then you're the one getting played.

With the right Specc, blocking is OP.
Take a 1H + Sword Caster against a phys. DMG Dealer.

The phys. DMG Dealer have to break through my block, which should even with a Magicka Build around 1.500 Stamina.

Skill Fortress for 30% Block cost reduce, SnB for 20% more DMG mitigation, Slot the Skill Absorb Magic for another 8% Blockcost reduce and mitigation.

Overall Blockcost reduction 38%, increased DMG mitigation 28%. And thanks to light Armor my Magicka Skills still costs 21% less Magicka and Hit very hard DURING blocking. My Enemy does low DMG to me and I hit him for 400-700 Singletarget nukes.

Don't have to say that he is dead way longer than my Stamina runs dry of blocking.

You can't phys. attack and block at the same time and the same should be the case for casting spells.

A NB with dual summoned shades and crushing shock can drain that stamina in less that 30 seconds, at range. After you're out of stamina, game over.

The double threat while blocking are Templars and DKs since they can heal while blocking in large amounts. A casting sorc tank can only pop damage shields. As the case with every class, if you're wasting your magic healing while blocking then you're doing no DPS. You can't win the fight, you can only tick your foe off by taking a very long time to die. Which is the whole point behind tanks.

But back to your hypothetical sorc tank. Since your example has him specking in 5 piece heavy for the reduced block cost then he has at most 2 pieces of light armor. That's little to no spell cost reduction, and gimped magica regen. The only spells he can cast without breaking block are, as I mentioned, shields, curse, and endless fury. Fury is pointless unless you're already dying, and curse will bleed him a magic VERY quickly in heavy armor, thus no self healing.

The build you described is a very poor build since its decent at tanking and casting, but master of neither. 1v2 that tank would have little chance off killing one target (assuming targets are equal level) let alone both.

wllstrt75b14_ESO · September 2014

dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Because the idea is that you're in defensive mode, and just because they don't have an animation of the Shield bearer pivoting to block rearward attacks, I think that is the intended idea. Holding block is meant to represent defensive mode, and actively using your shield as opposed to passive use. It sucks up your stamina every time you're hit, so there's the balance. Seriously, don't hate on tanks, just because you ran into an Emperor one time with batswarm or standard or Blazing or the like.

Sorry but if blocking dropped stamina more than 1% per block, then maybe i'd agree with you, but as it is now anyone can block nearly forever. Not to mention there isn't much difference between blocking with a shield and with a stick in this game, so there's that too.

not sure what your on about here but blocking does drop you stam more then 1 percent, as a DK who uses light armor I can only block a few hits and then im out of stam.

Resource management and good resource management should not be confused with blocking. perhaps the foes you are facing are using full heavy armor and reducing block costs more or using med armor to maximize stam regen but they are giving up other things to do that.

Thats what makes this game awesome you can do things well at the cost of other things, but there is still some tweaking that needs to be done.

wllstrt75b14_ESO · September 2014

Sleep wrote: »

I once saw a DK slowly went into a Keep through the breach hole at the wall alone, chased and attacked by 10+ guys, blocked all the way through, and left the Keep in 2 minutes with full health, leaving a lot of corpes behind.

yeah and i have seen sorcerers spam rings streak and batswarm repeatedly and take oput 30 guys..whats your point? you want to nerf a class because one guy did something that was probably mor the fault of the players attacking him.

There are DK's out there that are very good at what they do and are tough SOB's and there are NB's, sorcerers and templars that are tough as nails as well and very good players..your point is nerf them all because they are very good players?

Not every DK does what you say.

[snip]

I once watched sypher set up 3 oil pots on bleakers above the door and kill about 40 EP players(I play EP) I warned them all it was sypher and to fight him from range but they all jumped into him on a ledge and died repeatedly that does not make DK's god mode it makes sypher a really good player cause he used his skills and the abilities of the class to his advantage.

Also before you cry about people spamming ultimates you must realize that there is a passive that gives a damn good amount of ultimate per kill if you have leveled up the skill line well enough and everyone has access to that skill line.
[edited for baiting]

Metalxead · September 2014

Pryda also was good player, and he use advantages of his class and other skills, so all who died to his swarm are noobs and need LP2 coz u can kill him from range?

Metalxead · September 2014

BTW Streak nerfed... so you are off mark now.

kitsinni · September 2014

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

for NB just use Shades.
sit back and wait for them to run out of stam...

I hope you are built to last 2-3 minutes because that is how long it is going to take the shades to run a DK out of stamina.

starkerealm · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Right now 6 of us was attacking one, I repeat one , #1... DK with shield (of course) took us forever to kill him after he killed 3 group members.

Getting tired of this.

Same can be done with the other 3 classes. Especially Templars. I'll tell you what's really getting tiring about PvP, the players constantly crying.

Yes, yes and YES! =_=

Everyone seems to get in a fit as soon they get killed by X class and then storm to the forums and cry wolf.

Except, no one's actually going to cry wolf, because we all know how crap Werewolves are... right?