Anyone else getting bored with keep warfare?

IKilled007 · September 2014

Sieging and defending keeps is fun, sometimes, but it's getting old. Ganking is fun, too, but it's predicated mostly on intercepting people engaging in keep warfare -- same handful of spots for the most part. We've been battling over the same territory for 6 months now. Nothing gets settled, nothing is resolved. The map flips and it flips back. Keeps are destroyed then they're rebuilt... then they're destroyed again. Flags are captured and then captured back. Millions of gallons of oil have been poured, countless ballista bolts launched, and at the end of the day it's the same fights over and over. It feels like a Twilight Zone episode.

Any variety coming to PvP in the future?

Columba · September 2014

Yes! Please add other objectives such as hill tops, forests, bridges, river junctures, beaches etc. make them provide some sort of benefit (resources, buffs, etc). How about strategic roads?

Phinix1 · September 2014

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

krim · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Excuses excuses blame this blame that.

Columba · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Yep. People who dismiss legitimate complaints about cheating are likely cheating themselves. I am disappointed by this company's unwillingness to drop the banhammer on cheaters, and publicly shame them. Elitists simply think that they are more clever than the rest when they use exploits and hacks.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Erock25 · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Speak for yourself.

IKilled007 · September 2014

Back on topic, please. This isn't about exploiting, hacking, cheating, spamming, or anything else of that sort. This is about the nature of PvP objectives.

krim · September 2014

Columba wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Yep. People who dismiss legitimate complaints about cheating are likely cheating themselves. I am disappointed by this company's unwillingness to drop the banhammer on cheaters, and publicly shame them. Elitists simply think that they are more clever than the rest when they use exploits and hacks.

I just cant take them seriously anymore when i have played with people in the past who die and in a rage claim someone is cheating because they have no idea what that person is using or running. Only to find out later that its a certain skill, build, or w.e and not cheats.

It has been happening since the start of the game and its hilarious. I'm not dismissing that people might be cheating. I am saying that when i play i dont run into anyone who is exploiting or cheating to point where its effecting my game play.

Some how people who use skills that are more useful in pvp like batswarm or impulse, which are not the only options at all. Are labeled as cheap/exploiters/cheaters/elitist and they are all tied together. The accusations that constantly get thrown around is absurd.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

krim · September 2014

IKilled007 wrote: »

Back on topic, please. This isn't about exploiting, hacking, cheating, spamming, or anything else of that sort. This is about the nature of PvP objectives.

sorry pal.. your right its been boring for a long time now.

Columba · September 2014

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Yep. People who dismiss legitimate complaints about cheating are likely cheating themselves. I am disappointed by this company's unwillingness to drop the banhammer on cheaters, and publicly shame them. Elitists simply think that they are more clever than the rest when they use exploits and hacks.

I just cant take them seriously anymore when i have played with people in the past who die and in a rage claim someone is cheating because they have no idea what that person is using or running. Only to find out later that its a certain skill, build, or w.e and not cheats.

It has been happening since the start of the game and its hilarious. I'm not dismissing that people might be cheating. I am saying that when i play i dont run into anyone who is exploiting or cheating to point where its effecting my game play.

Some how people who use skills that are more useful in pvp like batswarm or impulse, which are not the only options at all. Are labeled as cheap/exploiters/cheaters/elitist and they are all tied together. The accusations that constantly get thrown around is absurd.

Most of us are speaking about 2 or so scumbags who exploit the mistform skill to be permanently invulnerable. you know who they are.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Skylandra · September 2014

People have been saying this since Beta... the camps working has actually made the problem worse since there are no resupply lines to gank either...

Before release I posted about alternative PvP games Like Capture the Scroll and King of the Hill all RvRvR - after 6 months of keep taking your feeling the monotomy

Sad to say but I feel true - ESO is still the best MMO out there for PvP/RvR. Luckily games like Camelot Unchained are in the works and I think they may take the MMO community back to where it was 10 years ago and you may be pleasantly surprised!!

HairyFairy · September 2014

I just recently made a thread about this as well, I completely agree with what you say, it's getting boring fast. We need more, and all they are doing thus far is giving pve new ***. I think we all play both sides, because we have to, I seriously can't JUST pvp, all day every day and not want to scratch my eyes out.

HippieTheGreat · September 2014

I don't find it boring, unless there is no one actually defending a keep. Then its boring as hell.

But Secondary objectives like rivers/forests/etc would actually be really interesting. It would fill up the map more (Cyrodiil feels a little empty when you are riding around), and you could use them to help give a boost to your score for holding lumbermills, mines, and such. Like you hold this forest region, the keeps in the area get an additional score boost for each lumbermill held at a keep.

On a personal note, I'd love to see like a 2 hour bridge battle

Braidas · September 2014

I'd like to see new keeps with different layouts at least. Maybe one with a moat, one with tripwires, I dont know get creative ZOS lol. Monotony definitely sets in sometimes.

themizario · September 2014

Yes, bridge objectives are a great idea! It would be good to have a flag in the middle with guards like resources and a mage on each tower. If you control it you can ride on through but if it's opposed then you need to go around or gather forces to take it.

If anything else it will make the never ending battle between Sejanus and Alessia more interesting.

Ezareth · September 2014

themizario wrote: »

Yes, bridge objectives are a great idea! It would be good to have a flag in the middle with guards like resources and a mage on each tower. If you control it you can ride on through but if it's opposed then you need to go around or gather forces to take it.

If anything else it will make the never ending battle between Sejanus and Alessia more interesting.

Hell they could even add something like faction controlled Dolmen with some sort of small bonus the encourage people and/or groups to travel outside of the major objectives and maybe bring more PVE oriented people into Cyrodiil.

Personally I think objectives are pointless for many of us because of Buff servers. We have no real interest in objectives because they don't impact us in the least. This will be fixed once they make Cyrodiil buffs based upon the campaign you're in over your home campaign.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · September 2014

Yes its boring yes it gets old fast, needs something more

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · September 2014

Ive said this many times

let us have 10v10 to capture mine farm and mill to contribute to taking a keep, smaller scale pvp is more fun and more balanced because its even numbers.

instanced ofc to fit everyone in, then after a time limit everyone then all gets thrown out all together for huge battle on the keep or something like this, same with capturing scrolls, smaller groups, hunter team and runner team, 10vs10 instanced, and shorter distances, checkpoints, resets per battle, points to towards total champaign score.

Cody · September 2014

krim wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It always comes down to superior numbers spamming AOE, Impulse stacking, streakers, bat swarm, server-locking Healing Springs spam, cheap cowardly tactics of egocentric "elitists," who care only about "winning" by ANY means necessary.

I had high hopes for PVP in this game, being of the "Elder Scrolls" genre and therefor (ideally) encompassing a more mature and enlightened audience, however time has revealed that PVP here is the same as anywhere else.

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

The average player has no motive nor interest in continuing to participate in this farce.

Excuses excuses blame this blame that.

so why is PvP not so good right now?

Cody · September 2014

HippieTheGreat wrote: »

I don't find it boring, unless there is no one actually defending a keep. Then its boring as hell.

But Secondary objectives like rivers/forests/etc would actually be really interesting. It would fill up the map more (Cyrodiil feels a little empty when you are riding around), and you could use them to help give a boost to your score for holding lumbermills, mines, and such. Like you hold this forest region, the keeps in the area get an additional score boost for each lumbermill held at a keep.

On a personal note, I'd love to see like a 2 hour bridge battle

why cant bridges be "Captured"?

SeltzerDuke · September 2014

HippieTheGreat wrote: »

On a personal note, I'd love to see like a 2 hour bridge battle

I already feel sometimes like 50% of my /played total has been spent on Alessia bridge, heh. (The other half would be Arrius mine and the Chal milegate.) And most of it has been epic awesomeness, even the part where I got knocked off to death-by-slaughterfish (and I will admit to leaping to my PVE death a few times in a possibly futile attempt to deny my tormentors the AP for a kill). So it might be interesting to have small mini-battles at strategic objective landmarks, although these can already occur organically at some of the aforementioned choke-points and the infamous attempts to break siege at a resource tower oil trap (which as long as you go in with eyes open that it's pure farming and it's better to just leave them to get bored can be fun to try to break anyway).

Voodoo · September 2014

OP you just described PvP in general. In every game.

Tintinabula · September 2014

I think that keeps that haven't been sieged in a day or so should spawn bosses. Yea i know..not more PvE but make them drop a GOLD somethn or nother to give a little incentive to other factions to explore deeper into your territory.

Of course EP home and gate keeps will never have bosses..so sorry AD and DC

BloodStorm · September 2014

I plan on attacking cities towns when justice system launches, which means players will get bounty contracts to kill me. Cant wait for that pvp.

Tintinabula · September 2014

I think I'm gonna flag myself too just so I can duel.

Xsorus · September 2014

DAOC had darkness fall soon afterward (bout the 6 month mark) which helped push it a long.

However it also had the 8v8 Meta come into existence..along with Realm Ranks.

8v8 Meta won't develop in this game simply because ZOS has already screwed it over with AOE caps. They could eventually had an actual realm rank system but its doubtful they'll manage it in time.

kijima · September 2014

The justice system should make things fun, but the actual inner city when that goes live is what I'm really looking forward too.

Xsorus · September 2014

kijima wrote: »

The justice system should make things fun, but the actual inner city when that goes live is what I'm really looking forward too.

With AOE caps in place..i know exactly how its going to look

Like Labyrinth of the Minotaur in DAOC on launch day...

Zubba · September 2014

I get bored mostly because how "forward camps" works. It renders transportation out of the tactics. Wich is kind of a childish dumbed down way of warfare.

Lava_Croft · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

ZOS refusing to do anything about exploits, campaign hopping, Emperor farming, and all these cheap tactics of the "elite" is just the nail in the coffin.

Except this is another one of those false 'ZOS does nothing' statements. ZOS has increased the cost to switch campaigns, increased the timeout, they will soon fix the buffs when guesting and the changed number of campaigns has done a lot of good against Emperor farmers.

While the pace at which changes/fixes are applied isn't that high, stating that ZOS refuses to do anything about it is just blatant lying.

Baphomet · September 2014

I don't find seige warfare bad at all, but the inevitable zerg vs. zerg vs. zerg is produces is unfortunate.

Part of the problem is that the transitus system is being completely circumvented by forward camps. I believe they need to rethink how forward camps work completely. They are necessary, but in their current form, the kill most forms of strategy.