I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they kick for both reasons, and probably a bunch of other reasons, and the only thing remotely "unethical" is not being clear about their policies up-front (though I have no evidence that they don't explain this to new members in some way).

I am fine with them saying that they will kick people for not being active but they should define what active means. Does it mean a weekly contribution, being active on the server, weekly posting of items for sale?

To just use "active" without saying what that means is something they should not be doing.

I am a member of 5 guilds. All kick out inactive members. I support this. If you will be on vacation or some such you notify the guild master. I may very well take a LOA from November to whenever new solo PvE content is released. I will notify them and I will be kicked until I return. That is only fair. Otherwise you end up with guilds that cannot function due to many of their 500 spots taken up by people who no longer are in the game or do no longer groove with the guild for whatever reason. When I return they will work me back in.

theyancey wrote: »

I am a member of 5 guilds. All kick out inactive members. I support this. If you will be on vacation or some such you notify the guild master. I may very well take a LOA from November to whenever new solo PvE content is released. I will notify them and I will be kicked until I return. That is only fair. Otherwise you end up with guilds that cannot function due to many of their 500 spots taken up by people who no longer are in the game or do no longer groove with the guild for whatever reason. When I return they will work me back in.

You didn't actually read this @theyancey, did you? What you're describing isn't what this poll is about in the slightest.

UrQuan wrote: »

I just saw an interesting discussion in zone chat, and thought I'd get a feel for how the community on the forums feels about this.

There was a trading guild (who shall remain nameless) recruiting in zone chat, mentioning that they regularly kick out "inactive" members. Someone else piped up in zone chat, evidently a former guild member (who shall also remain nameless), that the criteria for whether a member is kicked has nothing to do with inactivity, and is based purely on whether the guild member makes weekly donations of gold to the guild bank.

The people recruiting confirmed that this is their practice, and went on to say something along the lines of "if you don't like the guild rules, find a different guild."

Here's my question: is it ethical to recruit guild members saying that you kick "inactive" members, when in fact you kick members based on whether or not they donate gold to the guild bank, and not based on inactivity?

Note: I'm not questioning whether it's OK to kick members based on donating or not donating - I'm questioning whether it's OK to recruit telling people that your criteria for kicking members is different from what it actually is.

This is very disturbing to me since I am looking for a trading guild to join. Even more disturbing is that you didn't tell us which guild this is so I can avoid it. Can you let me know in PM?

UrQuan wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

the only thing remotely "unethical" is not being clear about their policies up-front (though I have no evidence that they don't explain this to new members in some way).

That's exactly what I'm questioning. Do you consider it OK to advertise the guild as kicking "inactive" members while recruiting without mentioning that they are actually kicking members who don't donate gold, regardless of activity?

Again, I have no evidence that they don't make this clear to new members. If they don't, it's kinda crummy of them, but I couldn't call it unethical even then.

Let's say hypothetically, you join this guild. A week comes up and they tell you you need to donate or be kicked from the guild. They didn't specify this when you signed up.

One of three things happens.

1. You feel like the guild is worth the amount requested (maybe they provide services to members that are worth that cost to you, maybe they have a good kiosk spot and do tons of business you've personally profited from, etc.) and you pay it. No problem.

2. You don't feel like the guild is worth the amount requested. You leave the guild. No problem.

3. You do nothing and the guild kicks you. Since the guild probably didn't suit you anyway, it's unlikely you've lost anything of value except a guild slot for a week. No problem.

If the guild has members at all, I'm going to assume that either the cost isn't that high (such that it's trivial regardless of value), or they provide enough value to their members to make whatever the cost is worthwhile.

I donate 15k a week of my own volition to the only trading guild I'm in, and make back plenty more than that, so I don't doubt that this guild's members could find that value as well. So frankly, I think this whole thread is silly. It's a non-issue.

The guild leader is obviously lying by omission. It is not okay. However, it's possible that they make the rules clear in a private message or on the guild website. Maybe they just want to keep the chat message short.

This kind of deception is quickly discovered after joining, so people can just drop and find a better guild. There certainly is no shortage of advertisments in the zone chat. One problem I foresee is that new players may become jaded if their first experience is with guilds like these. But I don't think it's an issue for anyone else; you don't like the rules, you move on, simple as that.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Eventually word gets around and that guild and its kiosks will be avoided by most players (as evidenced in the backlash demonstrated in zone chat).

Were you there too? Yeah, a lot of people in zone chat seemed to have a problem with it...

Anything goes I can kick you out of a guild just because it's Tuesday

sure its ok, a guild is a social group that has its own rules and policies. if you don't keep to those then out you go, if you don't like it make your own guild or join another one, maybe one with less rules

Polls like this make me miss "Do we need an AH?" polls.

I doubt there are legions of trade guilds luring people in with candy and puppies only to put a gun to their head a week later. I would think most guild management doesn't want to waste your time or theirs.

Here's a thought: Ask before you join if any dues are required. Or if you joined without asking, look at the guild message of the day. Or ask in Guild Chat. Also don't assume that because the day you joined there wasn't a rule, one won't come later.

If it doesn't work out, there's a quit button. And other guilds. Or the 'create guild' button. Tons of options.

P.S. The typical definition of 'inactivity' is not logging in to the game for 'x' amount of days. 5 on the low end, 30 on the high end, most in between.

UrQuan wrote: »

Wraithen wrote: »

Anything goes I can kick you out of a guild just because it's Tuesday

Cladius30 wrote: »

sure its ok, a guild is a social group that has its own rules and policies. if you don't keep to those then out you go, if you don't like it make your own guild or join another one, maybe one with less rules

You guys didn't read this through, did you? This isn't about whether it's OK to have a policy to kick out people who don't donate gold, it's about whether it's OK to actively recruit without advertising that policy.

I read it and stated anything goes guilds are not required to be honest in recruitment it up to the person joining to research about the guild in question. Anyways any guild that requires anything more than loyalty and active participation is a *** guild to start with...............Acolytes for life!!! ( shameless guild plug)

dishonest recruiting msg, so im going with not ethical.

Happened to me, got kicked from a trade guild, the reason given was no trading for a 7 day period, which was weird considering my logs said I'd bought and sold stuff pretty much every day.

Oh, did I mention I never donated gold to the guild in spite of the weekly reminders about donating gives you a chance to win some naff prize.

douchebagery knows no bounds with some people.

Yes, it's unethical to kick people for inactivity when the reason is for not giving your hard earned gold to the guild. But so what. Would you have stayed in the guild anyway knowing you disagreed with their P&P? There are lots of good guilds to choose from, so staying in a guild that doesn't make you happy is on you. Getting upset for getting kicked from a guild is on you. Either you deserved the kick, or if you didn't, good riddance to that guild anyway.