Totally agree. Dying means almost nothing in this game.

As long as 1, just 1 of your 50-100 person group is alive. He/She can put down 1 camp which only costs ~7K ap and you are all back in the fight with full resources.

I would like one or a few things on my list to happen:

-10 Minute Cool down on when a camp can be placed after one has been used up or destroyed.

-Increase the cost of Camps by a decent amount.

-Have a shorter cool down on death spawn. So you can't wait forever until a camp is put down.

Just a few things I would like to see implemented. Let's make dying actually mean something.

The removal of tents will eliminate most of the epic battles that can last upwards of 1-3 hours or more, which I think are exceptionally enjoyable. Keep sieges will almost approach a PVDoor quality of action and they will undoubtedly be significantly shorter in duration if tents are radically overhauled or if some of these proposed changes are implemented. Do people really prefer the shorter sieges to the longer ones?

Also, the removal/overhaul of tents significantly assists offensive forces as keeps will be tougher to defend. When that happens, people won't receive the huge AP bonuses for defense which will lead to even more AP farming which some seem to despise.

Not only that but tents allow players access to the most action in the game, thus a more productive use of their gaming dollars. There will be a lot less time spent in battle and a lot more time spent waiting for a battle or traveling to one. Do people really want to spend their time waiting and repetitively riding their horse from the nearest held keep to the battleground site of their last death? This will only lead to people enjoying the game less because they will be engaged in much less action.

Have people even considered the unintended consequences of tampering with tents?

Tents are essential for taking a keep that is heavily defended. They are also needed to keep hold of one that is under heavy attack. We have many cases on our campaign where we have to keep telling people that if they are the last one replace the camp. When they don't, we usually lose our attack/defence.

Changes are needed, removal of camps are not one of them. I would suggest that only people INSIDE the camps radius can use them.

What he said ^

supernico wrote: »

The meta game was actually an upper tier back when the tents we're bugged and you couldn't spam tents in the same place, but apparently the pvp in this game doesn't get as much attention from the developer team as much as the pve does.
Tents definitelly have to change the way they work as they are altering the quality of the pvp. A simple solution, but probably not the most efficient, would be the removal of the Forward Camps from the game, and have specific resurection points over the Cyrodiil map.
On top of that I strongly recommend siege damage that affect significantly the players (such as oils) should be nerfed, 90% of the players will die to oils in the inner keeps defenses.
Oils have to be nerfed anyways, no matter what.

pretty much this...

I disagree with spawn points around the map, that is what the keeps you own are for. If you die, wait for a rez, or respawn and ride back... I don't know what they should do about FC but I do think they need to change, I wouldn't go so far as remove them. Rez sickness from them would probably be the best solution.

Spawning inside the keep to defend, or right outside the walls to siege with full magicka/health/stamina is not exactly what I would call punishment for death. Nor would I call it rewarding smart/good play.

I also agree with the oil statement, I am aware of purge, and constantly spam it. But you know something is wrong when you get into a 3v5 fight and people resort to putting down oil around a corner to try to win. I mean really?

Problem with oils i think is that you can just pour them on the floor anywhere... If you could somehow make it so you have to pour it from a height, a lot of these issues would be solved and oils could still be used creatively.

Or they could go the easy route and make them only work inside keeps and other objectives and possibly bridges.

I know some complaints about 'troll' camps have been due to guild groups (such as my own) dropping a camp to instant-rez half a dozen dead group members mid-fight.

I think there should be some sort of short-term debuff associated with rezzing at a forward camps. I don't really care what the debuff is, or even how long it is. I just want to see an end to this sort of tactic.

I just hate the "suicide transit system" that's become the normal way of travel for guilds in Cyrodiil. "There's a camp at x. Suicide on mine and res there!". It completely ruins immersion in Cyrodiil for me. Groups should travel by horse more. It might add more field skirmishes which can only be a good thing IMO. So hopefully changes to camps are coming soon.

Tents are the worst part of ESO. If I quit ESO, I can honestly say camps are one of the driving factors.

I've been reading the posts in this thread and I'm still unsure where I stand on forward camps. Perhaps I need to pile some more hours into PvP to see the real damage they're causing, but from my own limited experience they seem to be working as intended.

Cyrodiil is a huge place; not to mention that you can't ride your horse most places through fear of being ganked, so you either have to be extremely confident in your abilities or stealth your way to the conflict.

I couldn't imagine enjoying PvP if forward camps weren't a thing. I'd hate having to spend a good 5-10 minutes getting back into the action. I love the PvP in Cyrodiil, but what's fast becoming tedious is the traveling from one place to the next, to the next, and the next...

Don't get me wrong, I love the scope of Cyrodiil; they've done a fantastic job, but once the novelty wears off, you find yourself yearning more action and less of the horse simulator.

My only suggestion would be to make resurrecting cheaper and/or easier as an alternative. Perhaps even offer an added AP bonus, as someone already mentioned.

On one side , it is true that by having tents you make it more of a battle of attrition and people can die and go again over and over on both sides.

On the other side , people want to play PvP to well , PvP. If it takes forever everytime you die and wants to join the fight again , then i atleast believe a lot less player will feel like playing this.

Not every player like to play running simulators.

My guildmates and I timed the run between keeps on max speed horses. You can run from emp keep to emp keep in ~90 seconds, same for emp keep to outpost. To run from your faction gate to an enemy faction gate takes ~10-12 minutes.

People saying that it takes too long to get back into the fight are just wrong. In most cases you are running back from an adjacent keep in ~90 seconds. Going deeper into enemy territory might take you 2-5 minutes and 10 minutes or so for a very long run. That is an absolutely fair death penalty.

The way camps are used at the moment destroy small group play, ruin any kind of map strategy, and turn pvp into giant endlessly respawning zergfests. You could delete camps entirely and the game would improve overnight.

Wahee wrote: »

… In most cases you are running back from an adjacent keep in ~90 seconds. …

Now take into account that with players having to ride back from one keep to an other will result in a lot of enemy players ambushing them. This increases the time it takes to go back into (the important) combat much longer since the players will have to fight these ambushes or will need to sneak to the keep.

Being able to get a keep off the transit system is fairly easy. A small group can capture the resources of the next keep and force players to spawn at a different keep.
An even smaller group can try to keep a part of keep walls slightly below 50% and prevent respawning at that keep.
Both of this methods will have the added benefit for the attacking fraction that it will bind larger amounts of players in keeps that are not directly attacked and this is a big advantage for the attacking force.

The reinforcements would have to get through the breach in the keep wall - easily defended by the attacking force unless all the reinforcements charge at the same time. More coordination for the defenders is needed and the reinforcements would have to wait somewhere to group.
The moment the attackers are able get through the breached outer the keep would be captured, because defending the keep would become impossible.

Sure attacking players who died will have to get back to the keep they attack just like the defenders, but the advantage is on their side since their main force is binding defenders to the keep. The cost of dying is much higher for the defenders than it is for the attackers.

The problem is not the shortest time needed to get from keep A to keep B in an ideal situation. The problem is that the combat in Cyrodiil is designed with Forward Camps in mind. Remove the FCs and a lot of things will need changes and would have to be adjusted and rebalanced.