Problems with stamina buffing
Ryzium
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I think pretty much everyone who has seen PvP or run Trials thinks that stamina build need to be buffed. This discussion is supposed to be a look into potentially harmful buffs that can make the game imbalanced towards stamina builds.
1. COST: Stamina abilities cost less overall, and they also have been getting decreases in cost regularly. Right now my sorc can get stamina cost down ALLOT (5% sorc passive + 14% medium armor + 20% from weapon passive = 39% on top of already low cost abilities compared to magic abilities. Next patch will see a decrease in the cost of 2handed abilities and almost all bow abilities (from PTS patch notes)
2. REGEN: stamina is harder to get regen for, in and out of combat. I think that there should be a good amount of increases in stamina regen. The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them. Sorcs can convert stamina into health and magicka, if you buff stam regen too much this will be used allot to get back a resources you dont have allot of regen in and also heal yourself. Finally Temps have a skill that cost a small amount of magicka that increases stamina and health regen by 85%......85% so even with soft capping that will be a problem.
3. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high. Not to mention if the damage is buffed it will significantly increase the DPS because they have already been reducing the cost of stamina abilities.
4. BUFFS: This is where I think the biggest changes need to happen and this is also where I think the least amount of problems can occur. There just needs to be some sort of stamina buffing that if not equal to its magicka counterparts at least needs to be a viable alternative. There needs to be some sort of HoT that costs stamina (like mutagen/rapid regen) there also should be at least one group heal buff, not the equivalent to a magicka heal because well... its stamina
So these are my thought on what will happen when stamina gets a buff. Basically sorcs will be OP as all hell, templars a close second, DKs will suffer a little and all the NBs who wanted their stamina builds to work will finally get what they wanted...
1. COST: Stamina abilities cost less overall, and they also have been getting decreases in cost regularly. Right now my sorc can get stamina cost down ALLOT (5% sorc passive + 14% medium armor + 20% from weapon passive = 39% on top of already low cost abilities compared to magic abilities. Next patch will see a decrease in the cost of 2handed abilities and almost all bow abilities (from PTS patch notes)
2. REGEN: stamina is harder to get regen for, in and out of combat. I think that there should be a good amount of increases in stamina regen. The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them. Sorcs can convert stamina into health and magicka, if you buff stam regen too much this will be used allot to get back a resources you dont have allot of regen in and also heal yourself. Finally Temps have a skill that cost a small amount of magicka that increases stamina and health regen by 85%......85% so even with soft capping that will be a problem.
3. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high. Not to mention if the damage is buffed it will significantly increase the DPS because they have already been reducing the cost of stamina abilities.
4. BUFFS: This is where I think the biggest changes need to happen and this is also where I think the least amount of problems can occur. There just needs to be some sort of stamina buffing that if not equal to its magicka counterparts at least needs to be a viable alternative. There needs to be some sort of HoT that costs stamina (like mutagen/rapid regen) there also should be at least one group heal buff, not the equivalent to a magicka heal because well... its stamina
So these are my thought on what will happen when stamina gets a buff. Basically sorcs will be OP as all hell, templars a close second, DKs will suffer a little and all the NBs who wanted their stamina builds to work will finally get what they wanted...
Ryzium
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Renuo✭✭✭
3. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high.
Lol if a sorc with only 205 weapon damage ends up hitting for 2k the purebred glass cannon NB snipers are doing a lot more than that.Dark Renuo - Nightblade - Daggerfall Thornblade
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Ryzium✭✭✭
3. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high.
Lol if a sorc with only 205 weapon damage ends up hitting for 2k the purebred glass cannon NB snipers are doing a lot more than that.
NBs don't have the highest damage from stealth with snipe right now so why would you think that they would afterafter just buffing the damagedamage of snipe? Sorc using snipe with soft capped stamina and crit surge gets about 1700-1800 on light armor users. NBs I have been hot by get around 1500-1600Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
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nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭NBs don't have the highest damage from stealth with snipe right now so why would you think that they would afterafter just buffing the damagedamage of snipe? Sorc using snipe with soft capped stamina and crit surge gets about 1700-1800 on light armor users. NBs I have been hot by get around 1500-1600
That is about right yes.1 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I think pretty much everyone who has seen PvP or run Trials thinks that stamina build need to be buffed. This discussion is supposed to be a look into potentially harmful buffs that can make the game imbalanced towards stamina builds.
1. COST: Stamina abilities cost less overall, and they also have been getting decreases in cost regularly. Right now my sorc can get stamina cost down ALLOT (5% sorc passive + 14% medium armor + 20% from weapon passive = 39% on top of already low cost abilities compared to magic abilities. Next patch will see a decrease in the cost of 2handed abilities and almost all bow abilities (from PTS patch notes)
One of stamina's biggest problems right now is a lack of sustain in boss fights, and this is one way of addressing that IMO. And bow dps needs any buff it can get, snipe from stealth is the only thing it's good for right now.2. REGEN: stamina is harder to get regen for, in and out of combat. I think that there should be a good amount of increases in stamina regen. The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them. Sorcs can convert stamina into health and magicka, if you buff stam regen too much this will be used allot to get back a resources you dont have allot of regen in and also heal yourself. Finally Temps have a skill that cost a small amount of magicka that increases stamina and health regen by 85%......85% so even with soft capping that will be a problem.
I agree that the templar's aura will be *really* good once stamina dps builds are a thing, but mostly because it's a shared buff for your party. As for sorcs, well, there is a reason nobody uses dark exchange for anything anywhere as a magicka build, and I don't think this would change due to having more stamina.4. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high. Not to mention if the damage is buffed it will significantly increase the DPS because they have already been reducing the cost of stamina abilities.
This is literally only true for snipe from stealth. I agree that this particular combination shouldn't be buffed any further, but the obvious solution would be to slightly bring down snipe's damage while buffing stamina overall, so it stays on the same level. For sustained dps, snipe is ridiculously bad because of animation cancelling, so this wouldn't really change anything there.5. BUFFS: This is where I think the biggest changes need to happen and this is also where I think the least amount of problems can occur. There just needs to be some sort of stamina buffing that if not equal to its magicka counterparts at least needs to be a viable alternative. There needs to be some sort of HoT that costs stamina (like mutagen/rapid regen) there also should be at least one group heal buff, not the equivalent to a magicka heal because well... its stamina
Ironically, about this particular change I'm somewhat hesitant, depending on how they stack. We have a good bit of low maintenance aoe heals already, regeneration/strife/grand healing are sort of fire and forget heals, I'm not sure if stacking even more of these would be good for the state of healing overall.Edited by guybrushtb16_ESO on September 11, 2014 6:51AM1 -
Draxuul✭✭✭I think pretty much everyone who has seen PvP or run Trials thinks that stamina build need to be buffed. This discussion is supposed to be a look into potentially harmful buffs that can make the game imbalanced towards stamina builds.
1. COST: Stamina abilities cost less overall, and they also have been getting decreases in cost regularly. Right now my sorc can get stamina cost down ALLOT (5% sorc passive + 14% medium armor + 20% from weapon passive = 39% on top of already low cost abilities compared to magic abilities. Next patch will see a decrease in the cost of 2handed abilities and almost all bow abilities (from PTS patch notes)
2. REGEN: stamina is harder to get regen for, in and out of combat. I think that there should be a good amount of increases in stamina regen. The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them. Sorcs can convert stamina into health and magicka, if you buff stam regen too much this will be used allot to get back a resources you dont have allot of regen in and also heal yourself. Finally Temps have a skill that cost a small amount of magicka that increases stamina and health regen by 85%......85% so even with soft capping that will be a problem.
3. DAMAGE: If you buff the damage of weapon attacks too much it breaks PvP. If my sorc can over charge my bow with 205 weapon damage and sneak crit for 2k with no other damage there will be problems, a NB will get really good damage as well but I doubt it will be as high. Not to mention if the damage is buffed it will significantly increase the DPS because they have already been reducing the cost of stamina abilities.
4. BUFFS: This is where I think the biggest changes need to happen and this is also where I think the least amount of problems can occur. There just needs to be some sort of stamina buffing that if not equal to its magicka counterparts at least needs to be a viable alternative. There needs to be some sort of HoT that costs stamina (like mutagen/rapid regen) there also should be at least one group heal buff, not the equivalent to a magicka heal because well... its stamina
So these are my thought on what will happen when stamina gets a buff. Basically sorcs will be OP as all hell, templars a close second, DKs will suffer a little and all the NBs who wanted their stamina builds to work will finally get what they wanted...
Finaly a post about Stamina that isn`t just another rant .
Finaly someone who took the time to analyze the situation and brought up some good points instead of a bunch of unreasonable demands .
Kudos to you , i support everything that has been said in the OP.
which represents a good portion of the reasons why i was there disagreeing with pretty much every other rants and complaints i could find anywhere on these forums relative to stamina .
Too many of them were from people feeling underpowered while being completly unwilling to admit that maybe part of the problem was the player and not the character.
The rest of them were pretty much from people being rejected from Trials groups. Once again the problem came from players , not characters.
Once again, Kudos to the OP.
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .4 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them.
I'll admit I don't PvP, but does roll dodging actually do all that much? At least in PvE it never struck me as particularly useful. Most AoE's give you enough warning to avoid them without, (especially if you're being careful not to stay too stationary) and I've never seen it do anything as far as targeted attacks go. There certainly don't seem to be any iframe component like there is in many action games. I'd almost suggest they should simply remove it. It's a silly mechanic that's always seemed a bizarre action game contrivance. You don't see people in real fights rolling around like that. It makes you a sitting (ok, rolling) duck.
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Ryzium✭✭✭The problem I see is that if you buff it too much people will be roll dodging all the time and you will never be able to hit them.
I'll admit I don't PvP, but does roll dodging actually do all that much? At least in PvE it never struck me as particularly useful. Most AoE's give you enough warning to avoid them without, (especially if you're being careful not to stay too stationary) and I've never seen it do anything as far as targeted attacks go. There certainly don't seem to be any iframe component like there is in many action games. I'd almost suggest they should simply remove it. It's a silly mechanic that's always seemed a bizarre action game contrivance. You don't see people in real fights rolling around like that. It makes you a sitting (ok, rolling) duck.
For PvP there are only 4 ways to get sustain
1. Healing
2. Bubbling
3. Blocking
4. Roll Dodging
Roll dodge is the best way to sustain in PvP against other players, you can dodge out of the way of projectiles and then get immunity to hits for a couple seconds which is ample time to just set up an attack and get them on the defensive or to simply roll dodge again. Roll dodge is this games version of in a 'real fight' simply moving out of the way of a giant ball of magic.
Basically the move is very helpfulRyzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
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heyguyslol✭✭✭
I don't particularly like QQing as I really don't have the stomach for it and I know I'm not the only one who's been hit with "Lethal Arrow" for 1500-2000 dmg but my question is, is this really intentional by the Zos devs, meaning is this working as intended? I mean do you guys feel that we should have abilities like this in the game that do a single hit for up to 2k dmg even tho its not an ultimate? Not to mention that this is also being buffed in P1.4.
I mean its not like its a series of hits that add up to 2k dmg, its hitting players for up to 2k dmg on a single hit. This screen shot was done to me while I had 600 impenetrable, 2500 armor, and I was blocking. To me this just doesn't seem right but plz correct me if I'm wrong and explain any kind of justification for this kind of dmg coming from a single ability in the game.
I play a sorc and my highest crystal frag crit has been about 1300 dmg which is very rare that a hit like this occurs but this "Lethal Arrow" dmg seems to happen quite often. This is just one of the many screen shots I've taken from dying from this ability.Edited by heyguyslol on September 11, 2014 12:29PM@heyguyslol
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Ryzium✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Ux4oCUTjXoa3hCZGp5a2xhZEE/edit?usp=sharing
I don't particularly like QQing as I really don't have the stomach for it and I know I'm not the only one who's been hit with "Lethal Arrow" for 1500-2000 dmg but my question is, is this really intentional? I mean do you guys feel that we should have abilities like this in the game that do a single hit for up to 2k dmg even tho its not an ultimate? Not to mention that this is also being buffed in P1.4.
I mean its not like its a series of hits that add up to 2k dmg, its hitting players for up to 2k dmg on a single hit. This screen shot was done to me while I had 600 impenetrable and I was blocking. To me this just doesn't seem right but plz correct me if I'm wrong and explain any kind of justification for this kind of dmg.
Yea, I understand what you are saying, I am going to assume that you wear 7/7 light or at least 5/7 light otherwise that number is even more crazy. Stamina needs the buff, but they cant just buff everything for some of the reasons I listed in the OP. I didn't even get into set bonuses and my oh my do they buff stamina builds ALLOT. Snipe's decrease in cast time again is not that big of a deal. The decreases in cost are what scare me. a base 300 ability you decrease the cost of by 20% becomes 240 then you apply the 39% cost decrease and get 146. Name one magic move that costs less and deals more damage than bow or 2 handed moves ... it is just stupid good. And i am not mad about the foreseeable buff to bow and 2 handed, but they are getting really close to making everything imbalanced again but now when everyone who uses magicka builds switches over to stamina they will all be pissed until they deal with it and people who are bad will say 'buff my class, nerf them!!! I cant kill them in PvP or beat their DPS in trials'Ryzium__________________Alliance: Aldmeri Dominion- V12 Sorc - Clodel
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