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Apparent NB problems
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R0M2K✭✭✭✭So..im just gonna raise 2 points to see if im the only one who thinks they are a bit stupid.
1) The amount of races NB excel at in a min/max situation = 1. Browsing through the racial bonuses of classes it seems khajiit is ridiculously OP for NBs due to their racial bonuses. They seem to be the only race that gives more than 1 useful bonus specifically for NBs. This wont really annoy most but for players like me that want to min/max the crap outta your toon, it pretty much forces you to run khajiit, and thus if youre not AD already (which i am not) forces you into another faction which has its own apparent problems not being able to do anything else with your guilds (another can of worms i wont open right now that i think is bloody stupid)
2) The either poor choice of resource for attacks or the poor choice of words for attacks. Am i the only one who thinks its stupid to name an abilities (e.g. assassin's blade) that use magicka as a resource and don't require a weapon? I personally think using magicka for any kind of attack outside casting a support spell for NB is stupid, but ill put that aside and down to class balancing or w/e the reason is - but i just got a good lol out of how they chose to name the attacks and what resource they use..
1. I honestly could care less about min/max and do not believe all races should be cookie cutter. As such some are going to be better at some things then others. If Min/Max is important to you roll a Khajiit and quit QQ about not being able to play the "ridiculously OP..NB's..."
2. Nightblade is a Mage / Assassin, NOT a Assassin/mage. Nightblade is not your typical rogue class archtype. It simply is not and people need to stop crying about NB not being medium armor, dagger and bow rogue rubber stamps. See below for TES Nightblade descriptions...
See also: for better understanding of what a Nightblade is in TES universehttp://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nightblade#Nightblade
NOTE: NB specialization is magic; armor is light; major skills 1hand, alteration, illusion, destruction, restoration, sneak.
The two NB descriptions come from previous TES games and are a little different from one another but essentially the same with a magic focus and specializations.
Considering "bound" armor and weaponry in TES games it's not too terribly difficult to imagine a NB conjuring a blade and striking with it. Personally I'd like to see them use their own blades if they have them but that's me.
People need to chill the **** out regarding NB design and quit projecting their imaginary rogue desires onto ZOS and TES. Does NB need some love...YES more so than any other class right now. It needs it's skills fixed and working properly with stamina builds getting another shot in the arm.
Sorry ahead of time at my tone. I play a NB as my main and I want to see it become as viable as other classes. I just snapped a bit at this continued notion that NB isn't what it's "supposed" to be. The myth of the rogue arch-type NB has been perpetuated too long.
Two words: Dwarven ore.
Feel free to continue with your TES lore blabla.Edited by R0M2K on September 6, 2014 10:54AM2 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Argonians make excellent NB also.
The potion buff stacks... so a NB Argonian Alchemist gets 45% increase effectiveness and 30% extra time... that is insane
3% health... all characters use health
6% increase healing... excellent for any character but combines with 15% from siphon for 21% extra for siphons.
Argonian racials are way underpowered. They're too conditional. The potion buff is expensive to maintain. No other race has an ability like that which requires so much time to collect ingredients or money buying them. It looks good on paper, but it requires too much upkeep. And 30% extra time is 3 secs. Potions only last 10 secs.
3% boost to health? Not great.
6% boost to healing is also underwhelming. Given that all NB heals are HoTs, how much is 6% of barely anything.
I just hope that "amphibious" works with poisons if they implement them. That's the only way to redeem the Argonians' weak racial set.
There's the stray possibility that some day we might actually see the ability to dive under water, at which point the Argonian water breathing could make them useful, or at least interesting, for getting to otherwise unaccessible areas.
If they're going to add onto our racials, I hope they boost poisons (and poisons actually do something significant, if they even add them). @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Right now Argonians just have a half-arsed casserole of racials that don't really help out much except for possibly a tanky build.
Argonians are supposed to be guerrilla warfare experts. Tanking is not guerrilla warfare. It would just be nice to see Argonians modeled the way they're supposed to be. Argonians should most certainly have something like the "stealthy" racial. There's no question, but ZOS decided to give that monopoly to one faction. I don't get it. Why not spread stuff around more? I don't think these abilities were all that thought out. Now I think it's stuck. They're too far in to make any significant changes. The poop is on the plate and the kitchen is closed.Edited by Junkogen on September 6, 2014 3:47PM0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Argonians should most certainly have something like the "stealthy" racial. There's no question, but ZOS decided to give that monopoly to one faction. I don't get it. Why not spread stuff around more? I don't think these abilities were all that thought out. Now I think it's stuck. They're too far in to make any significant changes. The poop is on the plate and the kitchen is closed.
And DC got the high stamina classes with Orc and Redguard, and EP got a good balance.Edited by akray21 on September 6, 2014 4:06PM0 -
Pseudonym✭✭✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
Edited by Junkogen on September 6, 2014 4:46PM1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Argonians should most certainly have something like the "stealthy" racial. There's no question, but ZOS decided to give that monopoly to one faction. I don't get it. Why not spread stuff around more? I don't think these abilities were all that thought out. Now I think it's stuck. They're too far in to make any significant changes. The poop is on the plate and the kitchen is closed.
And DC got the high stamina classes with Orc and Redguard, and EP got a good balance.
Ebonheart got all tanky racials. Pretty much every race in Ebonheart pact is for tanking in some fashion.
At least DC has Bretons. They have the most generally useful racials in the game. If you want a strong choice for any class, Breton is the best option.0 -
Pseudonym✭✭✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.Edited by Pseudonym on September 6, 2014 5:23PM0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.
That depends. If it's only their racial abilities without any other gear, I could.
Like I said, racials are like jewelry enchantments. They can definitely help out and some racials have a lot more utility than others. For example, Bretons have the best racial set in the game. They're very universal. Other racials require the use of certain things, such as potions or charge abilities.
You can't dispute the fact that some are much better than others.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.
That depends. If it's only their racial abilities without any other gear, I could.
Like I said, racials are like jewelry enchantments. They can definitely help out and some racials have a lot more utility than others. For example, Bretons have the best racial set in the game. They're very universal. Other racials require the use of certain things, such as potions or charge abilities.
You can't dispute the fact that some are much better than others.
I think @Junkogen missed the whole point of the response. He's sayin....with softcaps and gear there is little to no difference between what you can come up with statwise. "No S*** if they were stripped down you 'might' be able to pick out what toon is what race. lol. This focus on race in game isn't very practical as the effect in the end is minimal.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.
That depends. If it's only their racial abilities without any other gear, I could.
Like I said, racials are like jewelry enchantments. They can definitely help out and some racials have a lot more utility than others. For example, Bretons have the best racial set in the game. They're very universal. Other racials require the use of certain things, such as potions or charge abilities.
You can't dispute the fact that some are much better than others.
I think @Junkogen missed the whole point of the response. He's sayin....with softcaps and gear there is little to no difference between what you can come up with statwise. "No S*** if they were stripped down you 'might' be able to pick out what toon is what race. lol. This focus on race in game isn't very practical as the effect in the end is minimal.
I get it. It's minimal, but can help a build depending on what you want to do. I don't think it's as meaningless as you guys do.0 -
Umeil✭✭Simplist fix for all classes is Stamina blocks stamina attacks and magica blocks magical attacks . All skills get broken down into 1 or the other. Then balance from there0 -
And here I though this was going to be about the skills not working properly still. Invisible not working after shooting a bow is my case in point.0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't need to be stamina build, magicka gives me more options anyway. I just want more value to stealth, and I want cloak to work. Especially the cloak working part. invis pots work better, they can fix cloak at any time.
Right now I have specced out of crit because impen is so overwhelming. I'm using resto staff, which is fine, I can deal with that.
The other thing is, we have no knockdown. Every other class has a knockdown, sorcs have a channeled high damage knockdown. Takes me 3 attack to knock npcs down and it isn't happening with players.
With the night's silence nerf I really feel like I am being punished as a nightblade and I am being pigeon-holed into a few roles such a bow crits from stealth and... well that's it, actually.
I do okay, but everyone else does stellar.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.4 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I don't need to be stamina build, magicka gives me more options anyway. I just want more value to stealth, and I want cloak to work. Especially the cloak working part. invis pots work better, they can fix cloak at any time.
Right now I have specced out of crit because impen is so overwhelming. I'm using resto staff, which is fine, I can deal with that.
The other thing is, we have no knockdown. Every other class has a knockdown, sorcs have a channeled high damage knockdown. Takes me 3 attack to knock npcs down and it isn't happening with players.
With the night's silence nerf I really feel like I am being punished as a nightblade and I am being pigeon-holed into a few roles such a bow crits from stealth and... well that's it, actually.
I do okay, but everyone else does stellar.
Yep, makes you want to pull out your hair in frustration and should at the devs "FIX THIS GARBAGE NOW!". But all it does is leave a sour taste in your mouth and you play ESO less each day.Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on September 6, 2014 9:01PM2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I don't need to be stamina build, magicka gives me more options anyway. I just want more value to stealth, and I want cloak to work. Especially the cloak working part. invis pots work better, they can fix cloak at any time.
Right now I have specced out of crit because impen is so overwhelming. I'm using resto staff, which is fine, I can deal with that.
The other thing is, we have no knockdown. Every other class has a knockdown, sorcs have a channeled high damage knockdown. Takes me 3 attack to knock npcs down and it isn't happening with players.
With the night's silence nerf I really feel like I am being punished as a nightblade and I am being pigeon-holed into a few roles such a bow crits from stealth and... well that's it, actually.
I do okay, but everyone else does stellar.
Yep, makes you want to pull out your hair in frustration and should at the devs "FIX THIS GARBAGE NOW!". But all it does is leave a sour taste in your mouth and you play ESO less each day.
I play it just as much, my mood is much worse though.
If I find a replacement I'll move to that.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.0 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
The effect of race is definitely not minimal. The racial bonuses are significant.The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.
That depends. If it's only their racial abilities without any other gear, I could.
Like I said, racials are like jewelry enchantments. They can definitely help out and some racials have a lot more utility than others. For example, Bretons have the best racial set in the game. They're very universal. Other racials require the use of certain things, such as potions or charge abilities.
You can't dispute the fact that some are much better than others.
I think @Junkogen missed the whole point of the response. He's sayin....with softcaps and gear there is little to no difference between what you can come up with statwise. "No S*** if they were stripped down you 'might' be able to pick out what toon is what race. lol. This focus on race in game isn't very practical as the effect in the end is minimal.Edited by Aeratus on September 6, 2014 10:02PM1 -
Braddass✭✭✭Anyone who expected Nightblade to be a WoW Rogue ... is playing the wrong game.
BTW, I am happy with my Breton Nightblade ... I understood my Nightblade was a Mage when I created him.Edited by Braddass on September 6, 2014 10:41PM1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Anyone who expected Nightblade to be a WoW Rogue ... is playing the wrong game.
BTW, I am happy with my Breton Nightblade ... I understood my Nightblade was a Mage when I created him.
Breton is a strong choice no matter which class or play style since all the class abilities are magicka based. That just highlights the balance problem with racials. While races like Breton are strong for everything, races like Argonian are meh for everything.0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just want to know when the heck they plan on fixing NB shadowy disguise. Half the time I use it I instantly come out of the cloak for no reason. I can be just standing there, and it doesn't work. Some times it doesn't even work at all. I'll press the key, it will make that "whoosh" sound, but nothing happens. WTF ZoS?!Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!2 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be clear here, I'm not suggesting that Nightblades shouldn't be a magic class; that they shouldn't be using light armour or a staff if they choose to, but the old comparisons and lore are just pointless here.
Light armour is a totally different thing in ESO as I detailed and you just can't say "Nightblades used light amour in other TES games", light armour was medium armour in the other TES games, it's a dumb point for people to keep making and if anything it hurts your argument not helps it, that said it's pretty clear just looking at the class system that you can't go full stamina and people need to get over that.
It's magic builds or hybrid builds, simple as that.0 -
Pucko82✭✭I think it makes a a lot of sense to spend magicka to summon a dagger out of thin air before you swing it .
Like the OP said, the skill doesn`t require a weapon to use it . So the weapon pretty much appears in your hand and as far as i know, stamina has never been the resource used to summon anything .
Now it would make sense if they decided to split the cost 50/50 stam/magicka .
Magicka to summon the magic blade and then stamina to swing it .
But then the devs tried their best to offer their players choices and for those choices to have an impact on gameplay rather than simply giving us the illusion of choice and make those choice have no impact .
So classes are not built to rely on just one resource alone to allow the player to choose which direction to take on his own and no matter which direction he decides to take , he`s gonna have class skills available to him.
If NB`s were purely reliant on Stam, they pretty much couldn`t go mage without sacrificing absolutly all of their class abilities . Or else simply accept that whatever class ability they choose to use , it wouldn`t be as efficient as magicka based abilities that they took from non class skill lines.
I`m certainly not a know it all kinda guy, i could be wrong but if i try and put myself in the devs shoes and ask myself why i would split things up the way they did it .
I think my theory makes sense.
Draxuul
what if a NB where to go as weapon-based Assassin (wich is what they are actually supposed to be - at least according to their description)? they have to saccrifice all their class abilities!
at the Moment it is not possible to Play a stealthed assassin using daggers (real ones!).
so frankly: NO. theory does not make sense.2 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »It has everything to do with it.
Look, I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with it. ESO is nothing like the TES games that came before it. You can't make statements like, "in other TES games Nightblades wore light armour, looooook it says it right here in the description" when light armour was a totally different thing in some of those games.
I'm sorry but you're literally just taking some words and because they are the same acting like it's the same thing without any consideration for context. In Skyrim light armour was ESO medium armour, in Morrowwind light armour was the stealth armour and Bosmer and Khajiit gained a bonus to it just like ESO's medium armour, heavy was the other choice, again in Oblivion light armour was chain and leather.
If that wasn't enough to screw up the armour comparisons in ESO then they go and make Nightblade abilities scale off melee/medium armour critical.
IMO, you are incorrect. The NB class is clearly modeled on previous NB incarnations. It's plain as day. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying it's obviously the inspiration for the class and people saying NB isn't X,Y,Z is wrong, are wrongly assuming and then asserting class characteristics. I am not saying they are wrong for wanting a classic Rogue Archetype or that ZOS is right in designing their game this way. In fact I believe the players have a absolutely legit gripe.
There is a great deal of crossover in that the classes in ESO incorporate characteristics from multiple "class" types of previous games. This also is obvious and if not mentioned, not discounted. There are a great many "inconsistencies" as you touched on with your armor class examples. I can tell you from a personal standpoint ZOS should have incorporated more crossover characteristics from the Thief and Rogue and Ranger classes and allowed for less emphasis on magicka based builds.
I really believe the NB class is suffering from a couple things. The game was incomplete when launched. The planned Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild additions weren't ready for whatever reason and likely have skills that greatly augment the NB class and ZOS is playing a game, trying to appease the masses while they ready release of these other guilds in hopes they can then balance things out afterwords and so for the present they do nothing for NB's in game. i could be totally off base and maybe they are working on it but just haven't been able to fix the things that need fixing the team assigned to fixing it got pulled for some other critical event...who knows. What I do know is their community player base is suffering greatly over this issue. The problems surrounding NB bleed over into other areas that if fixed probably wouldn't. For instance, community outcry over Sorc's BE might be lessened should NB skills actually work as designed.
This is turning into a wall of text so I'll stop here. Let me just say, I understand what you are saying about TES and ESO differences. I just think the similarities are more relevant in the case of NB design than you...cheers.Edited by Vizier on September 7, 2014 11:11PM1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Class defining ability hasn't ever worked your own dots break it. even of it did is to short duration and disabled by
1.Any damage
2.potions
3.magelight which every caster is running all the time.2 -
Taz07✭I love how this has turned into a crap slinging fest about everything but the original points. If you read the OP, it states "or the poor choice of words for attacks." to which i still stand by is stupid, but even more so is the concept. I have a dagger equipped, but hey - lets waste magicka and summon another one to use...because the one i already have in my hand isnt good enough?
- Also to all those who arguing that the NB is modeled on previous incarnations etc im gonna have to disagree with you.
The point about different armor has already been brought up and is a valid point. armor classes are completely different, and if they had medium armor in old TES guarantee you NB would be medium armor.
Also if you actually read the NB description it goes against the people saying its modeled on previous TES versions.
"Nightblades are spellcasters who use their magics to enhance mobility, concealment, and stealthy close combat"
Major skills - one handed, illusion, destruction, restoration, sneak.
Last time i checked summoning a dagger to attack with was conjuration, not illusion. All NB class abilities do magic damage as well - which suggests they completely rely on conjuration and can go into battle without a weapon (even if you summon a dagger, one would think it would still do physical damage as well...)
It seems that they had the idea of the NB, and half assed it into the game to fit in with the rest of the classes, as nothing about its predecessors is really apparent in its current form. Conjuration, magic damage from weapons but rely on weapon damage and crit (from a conjured weapon) and screw all illusion abilities, 0 destruction abilities and im gonna go ahead and go with 0 restoration abilities, as the siphoning tree isnt true restoration abilities.
They need to completely rework the class (which they wont) to get it to a proper NB. Seems to me they couldnt decide between a rogue and a NB and half assed it in between.0 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭I really believe the NB class is suffering from a couple things. The game was incomplete when launched. The planned Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild additions weren't ready for whatever reason and likely have skills that greatly augment the NB class and ZOS is playing a game, trying to appease the masses while they ready release of these other guilds in hopes they can then balance things out afterwords and so for the present they do nothing for NB's in game. i could be totally off base and maybe they are working on it but just haven't been able to fix the things that need fixing the team assigned to fixing it got pulled for some other critical event...who knows. What I do know is their community player base is suffering greatly over this issue. The problems surrounding NB bleed over into other areas that if fixed probably wouldn't.It seems that they had the idea of the NB, and half assed it into the game to fit in with the rest of the classes, as nothing about its predecessors is really apparent in its current form. Conjuration, magic damage from weapons but rely on weapon damage and crit (from a conjured weapon) and screw all illusion abilities, 0 destruction abilities and im gonna go ahead and go with 0 restoration abilities, as the siphoning tree isnt true restoration abilities.
They need to completely rework the class (which they wont) to get it to a proper NB. Seems to me they couldnt decide between a rogue and a NB and half assed it in between.
And THIS is what I am taking out of this discussion, basically underlining the thoughts I have been having about the class for months since launch.Edited by GwaynLoki on September 8, 2014 10:41AM2 -
Mendoze✭✭✭I thought I'll make my Nightblade a dark elf. That fire resist bonus is just too good to turn down in PVP... DKs beware
Also Dunmer's extra magicka and stamina are a nice bonus. 0 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭I really believe the NB class is suffering from a couple things. The game was incomplete when launched. The planned Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild additions weren't ready for whatever reason and likely have skills that greatly augment the NB class and ZOS is playing a game, trying to appease the masses while they ready release of these other guilds in hopes they can then balance things out afterwords and so for the present they do nothing for NB's in game. i could be totally off base and maybe they are working on it but just haven't been able to fix the things that need fixing the team assigned to fixing it got pulled for some other critical event...who knows. What I do know is their community player base is suffering greatly over this issue. The problems surrounding NB bleed over into other areas that if fixed probably wouldn't.It seems that they had the idea of the NB, and half assed it into the game to fit in with the rest of the classes, as nothing about its predecessors is really apparent in its current form. Conjuration, magic damage from weapons but rely on weapon damage and crit (from a conjured weapon) and screw all illusion abilities, 0 destruction abilities and im gonna go ahead and go with 0 restoration abilities, as the siphoning tree isnt true restoration abilities.
They need to completely rework the class (which they wont) to get it to a proper NB. Seems to me they couldnt decide between a rogue and a NB and half assed it in between.
And THIS is what I am taking out of this discussion, basically underlining the thoughts I have been having about the class for months since launch.
Couldn't disagree with the second poster you quoted more.
Just because it doesn't shoot from a staff or deal elemental damage does not mean it's not destruction. ES lore has plenty of examples of touch based destruction spells that are perfectly represented by the melee class attack spells.
NB lore also has it using mysticism spells, ala teleportation and siphoning and most shadow spells are a great representation of illusion and destruction effects woven together.
I don't actually see much "rogue" at all about the NB. Its a pretty pure representation of NB as it existed from daggerfall thru to oblivion.1 -
Taz07✭Theres a difference between touch based destruction spells and stabbing someone with summoned weapon - the 2 have nothing to do with each other.
NBs do not summon a weapon to attack with by any ESO lore you so desperately cling to - ESO is a vastly different structure than previous TES games, you cannot compare apples and oranges.
90% of the melee damage abilities outside the siphoning tree are with a weapon, not touch based destruction spells.
NBs are also reliant on illusion over the other magic schools, to which there is almost no illusion spells at all.
Siphoning would also be more accurately destruction and restoration together, not illusion. Illusion does not do direct damage to enemies like the eso NB does.
If there is nothing rogue about the NB, and he does in fact use a summoned weapon to do magic damage, which is destruction damage (apparently) then why does weapon damage and crit modify its values?
My OP still stands, the names of abilities are poorly chosen, or the abilities themselves are misleading and/or designed wrong - not gonna sit here and debate tes lore
Edited by Taz07 on September 8, 2014 2:21PM1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭The likely answer is that they did it for balancing reasons, as you suggested and I agree that it's rather odd. I'd have liked the Nightblade abilities to be a little more physical and raw, instead of these flashy, gimmicky magic attacks.
It's a little too late for that now though; what's done is done, and I doubt we'll see any huge changes to animations, sound effects or any form of resource re-balancing.
As for the race and class min/maxing. I wouldn't worry too much. You can hit the caps easy enough. I play a Nord Nightblade, and although I lack the Crit of a Khajiit, I make up for it in survivability. Things are much more open to speculation here, and stats aren't black and white. It really depends what role you're playing in either PvE or PvP.
At the end of the day, race choice doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
No, they definitely make a difference. They're like extra enchanted jewelry pieces.
I wish they'd just let us pick our own passives at character creation. This whole racial business is just an exacerbation of the overall balance nightmare.
6% Crit isn't going to make a good player bad or a bad player good. They're small differences. If I told you the stats of twenty different players, without showing you what race they were, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell me who was what.
That depends. If it's only their racial abilities without any other gear, I could.
Like I said, racials are like jewelry enchantments. They can definitely help out and some racials have a lot more utility than others. For example, Bretons have the best racial set in the game. They're very universal. Other racials require the use of certain things, such as potions or charge abilities.
You can't dispute the fact that some are much better than others.
I think @Junkogen missed the whole point of the response. He's sayin....with softcaps and gear there is little to no difference between what you can come up with statwise. "No S*** if they were stripped down you 'might' be able to pick out what toon is what race. lol. This focus on race in game isn't very practical as the effect in the end is minimal.
I get it. It's minimal, but can help a build depending on what you want to do. I don't think it's as meaningless as you guys do.
Yes but what you essentially are asking is to be able to customize your race at character creation to have the passive skills and strengths you want....huh? Not even a close to being a reasonable request. Not in the least. Get to your end goal by customizing as you go. That's the only way. Asking for the game to be fundamentally changed at character creation is.... (smile)0 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭Theres a difference between touch based destruction spells and stabbing someone with summoned weapon - the 2 have nothing to do with each other.
NBs do not summon a weapon to attack with by any ESO lore you so desperately cling to - ESO is a vastly different structure than previous TES games, you cannot compare apples and oranges.
90% of the melee damage abilities outside the siphoning tree are with a weapon, not touch based destruction spells.
NBs are also reliant on illusion over the other magic schools, to which there is almost no illusion spells at all.
Siphoning would also be more accurately destruction and restoration together, not illusion. Illusion does not do direct damage to enemies like the eso NB does.
If there is nothing rogue about the NB, and he does in fact use a summoned weapon to do magic damage, which is destruction damage (apparently) then why does weapon damage and crit modify its values?
My OP still stands, the names of abilities are poorly chosen, or the abilities themselves are misleading and/or designed wrong - not gonna sit here and debate tes lore
Don't know where your getting this summoned weapon from.
There is a partical effect vaguely shaped like a blade but bo where that I have read does a NB spell refer to summoning a weapon.
Am I missing something? If so please point me to the source.
I also don't get why you think there is not sufficient illusion... fear, shades, blur, and yes cloak are all heavy illusion magic. Also most other skills have illusion school aspects woven with alteration and destruction. You are aware that ES allows mixing schools of magic into a single spell right?
As for siphoning... those effects commonly sat under the school of mysticism, until they dumbed it down and removed that school.
You also appear to be ill informed regarding stats that affect NB spells. Weapon damage does nothing for any NB spells. The all scale off spell damage. Melee range spells (touch spells) use weapon crit yes but not weapon damage. And if you think about it the ability to touch a person in a critical location to release your spell is more akin to weapon crit than spell crit, though I conceed both could logically play a factor in critical damage for a touch spell.1