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Why do developers take away to bring balance?
Pantherin
✭✭✭
I think in life we can all agree; Taking away from something someone enjoys will always breed unhappiness and discontent.
In real life, it is appropriate to take something away, if it will cause harm to others.
Some people use it as a form of discipline…to encourage or enforce a certain behavior or behavior pattern.
This is a game.
Bottom Line: This is not real life, it is supposed to be fun!
Fact: When it is fun, people will give you their hard earned money and continue to do so as long as you continue to make it fun!
Which leads me to my question: Why do corporations and developers take away from a game to bring balance?
In my experience:
If there is a mistake made; that makes it through all your levels of quality and control testing, to the live game client; you accept responsibility; acknowledge it was not intended and add to other systems in order to balance that mistake.
Adding to others to bring balance, gives other people new things to play with, brings balance and does not make one feel punished or “nerfed”.
Taking away from one to appease another breeds negative feelings.
Those negative feelings encourage other negative feelings and cause people to make decisions.
Those decisions lead to second and third order effects and eventually those effects are lasting.
Impressions are made and shared throughout the community and games “die”.
I would like to know, from a paying customer to a developer, why do you take away to bring balance?
Why not "add to" to bring balance, which in and of itself is taking away; in a sense, but is positive, and not negative reinforcement.
I am just curious...
In real life, it is appropriate to take something away, if it will cause harm to others.
Some people use it as a form of discipline…to encourage or enforce a certain behavior or behavior pattern.
This is a game.
Bottom Line: This is not real life, it is supposed to be fun!
Fact: When it is fun, people will give you their hard earned money and continue to do so as long as you continue to make it fun!
Which leads me to my question: Why do corporations and developers take away from a game to bring balance?
In my experience:
If there is a mistake made; that makes it through all your levels of quality and control testing, to the live game client; you accept responsibility; acknowledge it was not intended and add to other systems in order to balance that mistake.
Adding to others to bring balance, gives other people new things to play with, brings balance and does not make one feel punished or “nerfed”.
Taking away from one to appease another breeds negative feelings.
Those negative feelings encourage other negative feelings and cause people to make decisions.
Those decisions lead to second and third order effects and eventually those effects are lasting.
Impressions are made and shared throughout the community and games “die”.
I would like to know, from a paying customer to a developer, why do you take away to bring balance?
Why not "add to" to bring balance, which in and of itself is taking away; in a sense, but is positive, and not negative reinforcement.
I am just curious...
Legends of Tamriel
US Army Retired - (1990-2017)
Combat Veteran
Martial Artist - (1990-Present)
US Army Retired - (1990-2017)
Combat Veteran
Martial Artist - (1990-Present)
4
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Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭To avoid power creep. If something is over performing compared to whatever baseline level you expect, then you nerf it. If it is underperforming, you buff it.11 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First: I usually can't stand the lack of line breaks in the posts people make here, but this... this is new.
Now, to the issue you raised. The reason that good balance usually involves reducing something is because games are meant to be challenging. If some people are steamrolling through content due to a balance issue, the solution is not to raise everyone else up so that the content is easy for everyone. The solution is to tweak the abilities/equipment causing the imbalance so that it's no longer as easy for those people.----
Murray?4 -
Lorkhan✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
i'm not leaving
.... now i'm a level 8 sorc. ill be a much more powerful player, u know.... coz im a good nb. then u can tell, im a good player 1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.Edited by akray21 on September 5, 2014 12:58PM8 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
Honestly, if that was the only thing in the game you found fun, you're probably better off finding a game that suits you better. I wouldn't want to tell someone to quit ESO, but that one mechanic doesn't justify a $15/mo subscription, even if they changed their minds and kept it in.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC4 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
Honestly, if that was the only thing in the game you found fun, you're probably better off finding a game that suits you better. I wouldn't want to tell someone to quit ESO, but that one mechanic doesn't justify a $15/mo subscription, even if they changed their minds and kept it in.
Well, it is my $15 (actually $30, because my wife plays with me). I am sure that there must be one thing that if they took out of the game, you would significantly less enjoy the game. Whether it be an ability, a mechanic, or whatever.
My point is, it is taking away a whole playstyle. Didn't they say this game is about playing how you want? Well everyone has to be a broom wielder to be competitive.Edited by akray21 on September 5, 2014 1:06PM4 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
Honestly, if that was the only thing in the game you found fun, you're probably better off finding a game that suits you better. I wouldn't want to tell someone to quit ESO, but that one mechanic doesn't justify a $15/mo subscription, even if they changed their minds and kept it in.
Well, it is my $15 (actually $30, because my wife plays with me). I am sure that there must be one thing that if they took out of the game, you would significantly less enjoy the game. Whether it be an ability, a mechanic, or whatever.
My point is, it is taking away a whole playstyle.
They'd probably have to remove healing in its entirety to bother me that much. But there are other games I've played where a thing like this happened... I ended up moving on.
I'm sorry ZOS was silly enough to create a synergy that obviated the need for horses or sprinting and let people do annoying things with it that hurt the game for others, even if all you honestly wanted to do was gimp yourself in PVP to move really fast for a while instead of switching out sets when you didn't need it anymore, but it's going away.
I hope you can find other things in the game to enjoy, and if not, I hope whatever you find in the future is at least as fun as this was for you.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?----
Murray?3 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
Time to join the party as a sorc (rogue BE style)... just more time leveling...Edited by akray21 on September 5, 2014 1:33PM4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?----
Murray?3 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.5 -
Skafsgaard✭✭✭✭Bye, can I have you stuff?
Fewer gankers around, maybe those who stay will be those with actual skill?
Nice!The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.
Yes, I am ready...
Source:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »To avoid power creep. If something is over performing compared to whatever baseline level you expect, then you nerf it. If it is underperforming, you buff it.
This. It's an issue that hopefully ZOS is already mindful of, since it takes an early start to succeed in managing it.2 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Skafsgaard wrote: »Bye, can I have you stuff?
Fewer gankers around, maybe those who stay will be those with actual skill?
Nice!
I play NB well... that means I have skill... By your pic it looks like you are AD, otherwise I would show you.
I was never part of a gank group, I was always attacking or defending keeps, but nice try.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.----
Murray?3 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.
Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...Edited by akray21 on September 5, 2014 1:37PM4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.
Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Aside from being able to move faster than sprinting characters while remaining invisible? Yeah, that's not useful at all in combat.----
Murray?5 -
Skafsgaard✭✭✭✭Skafsgaard wrote: »Bye, can I have you stuff?
Fewer gankers around, maybe those who stay will be those with actual skill?
Nice!
I play NB well... that means I have skill... By your pic it looks like you are AD, otherwise I would show you.
I was never part of a gank group, I was always attacking or defending keeps, but nice try.
Oh yes, I am sure!
One of those sitting around with no sieges looking for an easy gank - sorry I dont buy it. There is absolutely no reason to wear this set, other than ganking lowlevels / PvE'ers. VR12s of similar skill will own ur ass in that set.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.
Yes, I am ready...
Source:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war0 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Combat isn't where it has an unfair advantage. Using this set, you can easily beat people to resource nodes, harvest them (without getting off a horse or even leaving sneak), then sprint off to the next one faster than anyone else could even hope to attempt.
If you're willing to change sets beforehand (addons exist for just this purpose!), you can blaze to a combat zone, then switch to actual combat-viable armor before engaging before anyone on a horse could get there.
I think ZOS thought similarly to a lot of the set's users when they created it: let them give up combat prowess for incredible speed, and do cool things with it. Then the reality set in, and reports were filed on how the set is actually being used, and they decided it's best to pull the plug now, maybe try again with a tweaked set later.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC4 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.
Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Aside from being able to move faster than sprinting characters while remaining invisible? Yeah, that's not useful at all in combat.
OMG, I can't keep explaining this to people... Once you are in combat, the ability is useless, you must be in stealth for the set to activate, to be in stealth you must be out of combat...
BE INFORMED
2 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Skafsgaard wrote: »Skafsgaard wrote: »Bye, can I have you stuff?
Fewer gankers around, maybe those who stay will be those with actual skill?
Nice!
I play NB well... that means I have skill... By your pic it looks like you are AD, otherwise I would show you.
I was never part of a gank group, I was always attacking or defending keeps, but nice try.
Oh yes, I am sure!
One of those sitting around with no sieges looking for an easy gank - sorry I dont buy it. There is absolutely no reason to wear this set, other than ganking lowlevels / PvE'ers. VR12s of similar skill will own ur ass in that set.
I use siege when needed. I take out opponent siege when defending. I take out healers, or players who seem to be dominating the battlefield... I am useful, but no more1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Combat isn't where it has an unfair advantage. Using this set, you can easily beat people to resource nodes, harvest them (without getting off a horse or even leaving sneak), then sprint off to the next one faster than anyone else could even hope to attempt.
If you're willing to change sets beforehand (addons exist for just this purpose!), you can blaze to a combat zone, then switch to actual combat-viable armor before engaging before anyone on a horse could get there.
I think ZOS thought similarly to a lot of the set's users when they created it: let them give up combat prowess for incredible speed, and do cool things with it. Then the reality set in, and reports were filed on how the set is actually being used, and they decided it's best to pull the plug now, maybe try again with a tweaked set later.
Speed horses beat this set.
1 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Combat isn't where it has an unfair advantage. Using this set, you can easily beat people to resource nodes, harvest them (without getting off a horse or even leaving sneak), then sprint off to the next one faster than anyone else could even hope to attempt.
If you're willing to change sets beforehand (addons exist for just this purpose!), you can blaze to a combat zone, then switch to actual combat-viable armor before engaging before anyone on a horse could get there.
I think ZOS thought similarly to a lot of the set's users when they created it: let them give up combat prowess for incredible speed, and do cool things with it. Then the reality set in, and reports were filed on how the set is actually being used, and they decided it's best to pull the plug now, maybe try again with a tweaked set later.
Speed horses beat this set.
Over very long distances, sure. But speed horses have mount and dismount time, which means this combo destroys them in short bursts, and even over long distances, uneven terrain can cause the horse to stop sprinting, so you have to wait for some stamina to regen before sprinting again.
When competing for nodes, it's not worth trying. The stealth combo will beat you. You just have to /sigh and go somewhere else.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC5 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.
Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Aside from being able to move faster than sprinting characters while remaining invisible? Yeah, that's not useful at all in combat.
OMG, I can't keep explaining this to people... Once you are in combat, the ability is useless, you must be in stealth for the set to activate, to be in stealth you must be out of combat...
BE INFORMED
Last I checked, invisibility counted as being stealthed.----
Murray?3 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »...... i'm just sad, u know
i'll miss the actual gameplay
Then don't leave? How much is this one change to an armor set really going to affect your game?
The removal of the NS set synergy WAS the fun in the game for me. I tried playing without it last night, and the game just wasn't the way I wanted to play it, it wasn't fun anymore. Sneaking around the enemies at 185% speed was FUN, sneaking at 125% speed was just tedious and not fun at all.
I would begin to sneak over to someone, and they would BE away before I could reach them. When I did reach someone, they would just BE away. It is near impossible to get a melee sneak attack off without this set. Now, I could switch to a bow build with sneak attack, but that's not how I want to play, I want to be a melee rogue.
So with the fun taken away from my rogue NB, I am left with a decision. I either create a rogue sorc (which seems like the best class for a rogue now), or I quit.
That was supposed to be funny, right?
I mean, you're not actually saying that your sense of fun in the game was predicated on being able to sneak faster than anyone else in order to gain an unfair advantage, right?
Right?
No, it was not meant to be funny, it was meant to portray how I currently feel about the game when I am playing (without the set).
An MMO is about having different advantages over other players. Everyone should have their own advantage. This set happened to be mine, and no, it was not unfair.
So, just to clarify: you can only have fun in this game when you're able to sneak faster than other players can sprint?
Correct.
Well, too bad. For many other people, fun is actually predicated on people not having unfair advantages. And that's an unfair advantage, regardless of how much fun it is for you.
Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Aside from being able to move faster than sprinting characters while remaining invisible? Yeah, that's not useful at all in combat.
OMG, I can't keep explaining this to people... Once you are in combat, the ability is useless, you must be in stealth for the set to activate, to be in stealth you must be out of combat...
BE INFORMED
Last I checked, invisibility counted as being stealthed.
nope... have you be crouched in stealth for the ability from the set to work... you can be crouched and use invis and it will work, but you can not be in combat, pop stealth, and then gain the bonus speed, it didn't work that way. You obviously never used it1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »Circuitous wrote: »Not unfair advantage... again, it has no combat utility...
Combat isn't where it has an unfair advantage. Using this set, you can easily beat people to resource nodes, harvest them (without getting off a horse or even leaving sneak), then sprint off to the next one faster than anyone else could even hope to attempt.
If you're willing to change sets beforehand (addons exist for just this purpose!), you can blaze to a combat zone, then switch to actual combat-viable armor before engaging before anyone on a horse could get there.
I think ZOS thought similarly to a lot of the set's users when they created it: let them give up combat prowess for incredible speed, and do cool things with it. Then the reality set in, and reports were filed on how the set is actually being used, and they decided it's best to pull the plug now, maybe try again with a tweaked set later.
Speed horses beat this set.
Over very long distances, sure. But speed horses have mount and dismount time, which means this combo destroys them in short bursts, and even over long distances, uneven terrain can cause the horse to stop sprinting, so you have to wait for some stamina to regen before sprinting again.
When competing for nodes, it's not worth trying. The stealth combo will beat you. You just have to /sigh and go somewhere else.
Bumps in the road have caused me to lose stealth, thus losing speed bonus as well.1
