Apparent NB problems

Phinix1 · September 2014

The biggest problem with Nightblade as others have said is survivability, due to the lack of any meaningful class heals. This is especially true for stamina builds.

We have one ranged magicka-based class skill that adds a small heal over time (Strife, and morphs) which we have to attack an enemy with to use. HOWEVER, like ALL class skills, the heal scales off of MAGICKA and SPELL DAMAGE, thus making it basically useless for the primary (in my mind) archetypal NB DW/Bow stamina builds. It also requires you to be in combat since you have to attack with it to get the HoT.

If you pair it with the HoT from Dual Wield Blood Frenzy it is just barely enough to passively heal the damage from one, MAYBE two enemies.

However, for PvP purposes, it is pretty useless. Perhaps having the heal scale off stamina would help a little.

Some might argue that NB is a stealthy "get in get out" character and that escape is our survivability, and while I might agree ON PAPER, the implementation is far from viable. The 2.9 second stealth we get costs a whopping 450 magicka, which for a stamina character is roughly 1/4 or more of our magicka bar.

Throw in a couple Strife heals and ANY other class skill, and you will be lucky to escape very far in the 1 or 2 casts (5-6 seconds) you can stealth before running out of mana and dying.

Meanwhile, Sorcerer can put ALL points into Magicka and ALL their class skills synergize. They can spam escape with Bolt Escape even after the nerf, with all the mana regen they get, which ALSO contributes to their damage.

Plus they get a powerful damage shield (Hardened Ward) and their magicka based builds synergize with Healing Ward and Harness Magic (Resto Staff and Light Armor shields) as well, allowing a Sorc to stack a 1500 or more damage shield that heals and restores magicka while still getting all the benefits of a 1-resource damage base.

I would hate them to nerf Sorcerer even more (though they SHOULD put an AOE cap on Bolt Escape), but Nightblade needs some serious love.

Junkogen · September 2014

Taz07 wrote: »

So..im just gonna raise 2 points to see if im the only one who thinks they are a bit stupid.

1) The amount of races NB excel at in a min/max situation = 1. Browsing through the racial bonuses of classes it seems khajiit is ridiculously OP for NBs due to their racial bonuses. They seem to be the only race that gives more than 1 useful bonus specifically for NBs. This wont really annoy most but for players like me that want to min/max the crap outta your toon, it pretty much forces you to run khajiit, and thus if youre not AD already (which i am not) forces you into another faction which has its own apparent problems not being able to do anything else with your guilds (another can of worms i wont open right now that i think is bloody stupid)
2) The either poor choice of resource for attacks or the poor choice of words for attacks. Am i the only one who thinks its stupid to name an abilities (e.g. assassin's blade) that use magicka as a resource and don't require a weapon? I personally think using magicka for any kind of attack outside casting a support spell for NB is stupid, but ill put that aside and down to class balancing or w/e the reason is - but i just got a good lol out of how they chose to name the attacks and what resource they use..

Yes! You hit the nail on the head. I've been so irritated by this.

I hate cats. I don't want to be a Khajiit but their racial passives are what I want to use.

I wish they would just let us pick our own passives at character creation.

Vizier · September 2014

Taz07 wrote: »

So..im just gonna raise 2 points to see if im the only one who thinks they are a bit stupid.

1) The amount of races NB excel at in a min/max situation = 1. Browsing through the racial bonuses of classes it seems khajiit is ridiculously OP for NBs due to their racial bonuses. They seem to be the only race that gives more than 1 useful bonus specifically for NBs. This wont really annoy most but for players like me that want to min/max the crap outta your toon, it pretty much forces you to run khajiit, and thus if youre not AD already (which i am not) forces you into another faction which has its own apparent problems not being able to do anything else with your guilds (another can of worms i wont open right now that i think is bloody stupid)
2) The either poor choice of resource for attacks or the poor choice of words for attacks. Am i the only one who thinks its stupid to name an abilities (e.g. assassin's blade) that use magicka as a resource and don't require a weapon? I personally think using magicka for any kind of attack outside casting a support spell for NB is stupid, but ill put that aside and down to class balancing or w/e the reason is - but i just got a good lol out of how they chose to name the attacks and what resource they use..

1. I honestly could care less about min/max and do not believe all races should be cookie cutter. As such some are going to be better at some things then others. If Min/Max is important to you roll a Khajiit and quit QQ about not being able to play the "ridiculously OP..NB's..."

2. Nightblade is a Mage / Assassin, NOT a Assassin/mage. Nightblade is not your typical rogue class archtype. It simply is not and people need to stop crying about NB not being medium armor, dagger and bow rogue rubber stamps. See below for TES Nightblade descriptions...

See also: for better understanding of what a Nightblade is in TES universehttp://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nightblade#Nightblade

NOTE: NB specialization is magic; armor is light; major skills 1hand, alteration, illusion, destruction, restoration, sneak.

The two NB descriptions come from previous TES games and are a little different from one another but essentially the same with a magic focus and specializations.

Considering "bound" armor and weaponry in TES games it's not too terribly difficult to imagine a NB conjuring a blade and striking with it. Personally I'd like to see them use their own blades if they have them but that's me.

People need to chill the **** out regarding NB design and quit projecting their imaginary rogue desires onto ZOS and TES. Does NB need some love...YES more so than any other class right now. It needs it's skills fixed and working properly with stamina builds getting another shot in the arm.

Sorry ahead of time at my tone. I play a NB as my main and I want to see it become as viable as other classes. I just snapped a bit at this continued notion that NB isn't what it's "supposed" to be. The myth of the rogue arch-type NB has been perpetuated too long.

Code2501 · September 2014

R0M2K wrote: »

jaibierwb17_ESO wrote: »

The abilities point is a good one. Why do class skills (for all classes, but seems to largely affect NBs) such as as assassin's blade scale off weapon damage and weapon crit but use magicka.

Its even worst, class skills scale:

Melee: magicka - spell power - weapon crit
Ranged: magicka - spell power - spell crit

Asssins blade is using spell power, not weapon power.

As it should. Its a touch spell.

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

The biggest problem with Nightblade as others have said is survivability, due to the lack of any meaningful class heals. This is especially true for stamina builds.

Yeah I agree, I think this along with Dark Cloak not working seems to be my major issue with Nightblades.

You forgot Refreshing Path though, it'll work as a direct heal but it's tiny (that said it will tick really fast next to some other heals so what looks like a 20 per tick heal actually looks like it's a 40 heal next to some of the slower heals which heal for around 100).

Vizier wrote: »

2. Nightblade is a Mage / Assassin, NOT a Assassin/mage. Nightblade is not your typical rogue class archtype.

What does this have to do with anything? Firstly it really doesn't change much about what he said and secondly you're talking about totally different games, hell the classes didn't even mirror each other in the other TES games let alone here, ZOS invented classes for ESO as well so the idea that posting a screenshot of an old game matters (even to those of us that played Arena) is silly.

Vizier wrote: »

NOTE: NB specialization is magic; armor is light; major skills 1hand, alteration, illusion, destruction, restoration, sneak.

AGAIN, totally pointless. There are currently no magic trees in this game until we get spell crafting, there is no destruction tree, there is no restoration tree there is no illusion tree.

Even armour doesn't stay the same in TES games, light armour in this game is not the same as light armour in some TES games like Skyrim, light armour covered ESO style medium armour and clothes covered mage robes.

Can we please stop with the pointless comparisons to other TES games, which are literally not only different games but also totally different genres of games.

Taz07 · September 2014

So you argue a pvp point, then when i point something out you explain why its not good in pve...because logic?
Also, once again you are missing the entire point of the argument. This is for an assassin build, which has zero use for anything thats not going to pump the first 2-3 attacks up. the enemy will not be finding/attacking me for health to matter. i wont be making so many attacks that i need surplus magicka for 2min of fighting. The whole point is to get in and get out.

Varicite · September 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Taz07 wrote: »

So..im just gonna raise 2 points to see if im the only one who thinks they are a bit stupid.

1) The amount of races NB excel at in a min/max situation = 1. Browsing through the racial bonuses of classes it seems khajiit is ridiculously OP for NBs due to their racial bonuses. They seem to be the only race that gives more than 1 useful bonus specifically for NBs. This wont really annoy most but for players like me that want to min/max the crap outta your toon, it pretty much forces you to run khajiit, and thus if youre not AD already (which i am not) forces you into another faction which has its own apparent problems not being able to do anything else with your guilds (another can of worms i wont open right now that i think is bloody stupid)

Someone is forgetting the mighty Bosmer.

We have stealth radius reduction, combat stamina increase and a massive poison disease resistance to shrug off bow users and it increases your max stamina. Most Nightblades rely on stealth movement through cyrodiil and the stamina helps break the CC that other classes get, roll more to dodge and to travel in sneak for longer.

Not only can we sneak longer but we usually get to detect people before they detect us.

And Argonian healers who stack potion reductions. If you have the cash or stockpile to fuel this type of character, it's stupidly good.

Hmm, seems #1 has been pretty thoroughly refuted.

zhevon · September 2014

I have dumb questions : if NBs are not supposed to use medium armor? Which class (or subclass) should use medium? Probably a different way of asking which class (or subclass) was supposed to be stamina based?

I guess there are not enough negatives with using heavy and especially light to even warrant use of medium armor.

Nefrast · September 2014

Draxuul wrote: »

I think it makes a a lot of sense to spend magicka to summon a dagger out of thin air before you swing it .

Yes it does, but I wouldn't use that as explanation. I think the "summoning" happens just because of a limited animation and armour budget. I fancy that a Nightblade with the respective skills always has a couple of throwing knifes ready.

There is a lot of modeling and animations missing, just think about the weapons floating a couple of inches behind your back. Magic!

Draxuul wrote: »

Like the OP said, the skill doesn`t require a weapon to use it . So the weapon pretty much appears in your hand and as far as i know, stamina has never been the resource used to summon anything .

I don't have arrows in my inventory and I can clearly see that they are not taken from some ever-full container, they are summoned our of thin air too. With your logic maybe everything bow related should consume magicka as there seems to be a lot of summoning involved. ;-)

Draxuul wrote: »

I think my theory makes sense.

It does, but if you follow it through you could attach magicka to most things.

Azoryl · September 2014

Argonians make excellent NB also.

The potion buff stacks... so a NB Argonian Alchemist gets 45% increase effectiveness and 30% extra time... that is insane

3% health... all characters use health

6% increase healing... excellent for any character but combines with 15% from siphon for 21% extra for siphons.

Azoryl · September 2014

Now for the STA vs MGK issue. I agree ideas need to be considered. I think a simple solution would be to bass the damage on class skills by your highest stat between MGK and STA. So if you stamina was higher... all skills would be off stamina... if your magicka is higher... then by magicka.

starkerealm · September 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Taz07 wrote: »

Err 10% bonus damage from stealth? Yea youre right thats crap for an assassin build, im much better going off for bonus heavy armor

Stealth is totally useless for any high end PVE content, like trials and dungeons. Stealth has a role in PVP, but current PVP favors killing large zergs and stealth won't get you AP faster than non-stealth.

So in the end, the stealth bonus is too situational. Better to get something that is useful in all circumstances, like +magicka or +health.

I could be wrong, but the design point for stealth in PvP has always been straggler harassment/single target assassination. If you're wading into combat and trying to be stealthy you've made a horrible mistake. But, if you've just run across a lone player booking it for a fight, you can reliably make sure they never get there.

Assassination is harder, but, a couple coordinated NBs can do hilarious things to help break a siege.

Vizier · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

The biggest problem with Nightblade as others have said is survivability, due to the lack of any meaningful class heals. This is especially true for stamina builds.

Yeah I agree, I think this along with Dark Cloak not working seems to be my major issue with Nightblades.

You forgot Refreshing Path though, it'll work as a direct heal but it's tiny (that said it will tick really fast next to some other heals so what looks like a 20 per tick heal actually looks like it's a 40 heal next to some of the slower heals which heal for around 100).

Vizier wrote: »

2. Nightblade is a Mage / Assassin, NOT a Assassin/mage. Nightblade is not your typical rogue class archtype.

What does this have to do with anything? Firstly it really doesn't change much about what he said and secondly you're talking about totally different games, hell the classes didn't even mirror each other in the other TES games let alone here, ZOS invented classes for ESO as well so the idea that posting a screenshot of an old game matters (even to those of us that played Arena) is silly.

Vizier wrote: »

NOTE: NB specialization is magic; armor is light; major skills 1hand, alteration, illusion, destruction, restoration, sneak.

AGAIN, totally pointless. There are currently no magic trees in this game until we get spell crafting, there is no destruction tree, there is no restoration tree there is no illusion tree.

Even armour doesn't stay the same in TES games, light armour in this game is not the same as light armour in some TES games like Skyrim, light armour covered ESO style medium armour and clothes covered mage robes.

Can we please stop with the pointless comparisons to other TES games, which are literally not only different games but also totally different genres of games.

It has everything to do with it. The point is, since the beginning I've been hearing players whine in Teamspeak and QQ in these forums that their NB isn't a medium armor wearing, DW / Bow toting Rogue Archetype. There's a ton of folks in this very thread STILL trying to make the point their NB isn't cookie cutter and acting as if ZOS got it wrong. Yes, we don't have "destruction" trees or restoration tree as you so astutely pointed out. That doesn't change the fact that a Nightblade in TES is a magic user first. Cry all you want about the game design and the efficacy of class choices for a community that expects "X, Y and Z," but at least take the time to understand what your arguing. If players here can't see the relationship between TES character types and ZOS/ESO character types or refuse to acknowledge them that is their F'ing problem. Not ZOS's.

Nightblade in ESO is modeled after TES Nightblade (Go figure, see above post). It's their game, their universe, their creation. So QQ more if you want to that your NB doesn't fit the mold, but ZOS is on the right track with NB from TES lore perspective. NB arguably needs some love for those that want to play that way and be stamina builds, because they did say "play your way" and I think it is somewhat shortsighted they didn't consider the archetypes and should probably have had couple more character types at character creation or should have clear separation of various TES character types throughout the character development process but THAT is a whole other discussion.

starkerealm · September 2014

Knootewoot wrote: »

I am a Breton NB and I am OP too. I have extra magicka compared to the other races so i can cast shadow more and Swallow soul. Also i am so damn cute when you look at me you will be paralyzed

I've actually been really happy with my Breton nightblade. I started out doing an assassin/syphon build, and later switched to a shadow heavy build. They play completely differently, but both builds were utter monsters.

The only real hickup was the harvester fight in Halls of Torment, back when Lyris would just randomly go, "derp" and stop participating.

starkerealm · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

2. Nightblade is a Mage / Assassin, NOT a Assassin/mage. Nightblade is not your typical rogue class archtype.

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything?

It's about misaligned expectations. If you just want to do a stamina based assassin type character, you can do that with any class, really. Medium Armor, Dual Wielding/Bow ninja type character.

Nightblade is about giving you stealth focused magical abilities, rather than just making your character stealthier.

You can get a sneak attack bonus from just power attacking before revealing yourself, and if you're in medium armor, your crit chance for weapons will come into play there.

I'll agree that, usually, dragging up previous games is kind of silly, but in this case, it's a pretty good indicator of why they're designed the way they are.

Aeratus · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

...

Agreed. If you look at how the class is designed, it clearly resembles the class description in oblivion. This proves that the ESO nightblade is a nightblade, and not a rogue or assassin, which are separate classes in Oblivion.

Oblivion class description:

"Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances."

"Spell...casting magic" - all class skills are spells.
"Shadow" - NB's shadow tree
"haste" - path of darkness spell

Next, the class specializations in TES Oblivion

"Specialization: Magic"

Again, all class "skills" are spells. Nightblade in ESO is a mage.

Attributes in TES Oblivion:

"Speed, Willpower"

Willpower- Magicka flood passive: "Increases Max Magicka 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted."

Skills:

Acrobatics
Alteration
Athletics
Blade
Destruction
Light Armor
Restoration

Acrobatics/Athletics - Path of darkness, passive that increases stam regen
Blade - Veiled strike, Impale, Teleport Strike (note that none of these requires a stamina weapon to be equipped in order to be used)
Destruction - Strife, Crippling Grasp
Restoration - Strife (Funnel Health), sap essence

Here's a bonus: In Oblivion, you see the Nightblade carry a potion.

That's why we have the catalyst passive (Increases potion effectiveness by 20%).

Halke · September 2014

Anyone have a link to a page with what base stat, power, and crit NB class skills scale from (and any others if you have it)? I feel odd having to ask that but apparently finding out what contributes to what is not as simple as I thought.

Varicite · September 2014

All class skills scale from spell damage and max magicka, all of them.

Depending on what type of skill it is, some benefit from weapon crit, while others use spell crit. A good rule of thumb is that most melee-range skills that use a weapon for their animation uses weapon crit, while the others utilize spell crit.

Additionally, some skills are countered by armor, while others are countered by spell resistance. These mostly follow the same rules as the weapon / spell crit, but there are some outliers.

I know it's confusing.. : c

But as for damage itself, it will always be spell damage / max magicka that governs class skill damage.

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

It has everything to do with it.

Look, I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with it. ESO is nothing like the TES games that came before it. You can't make statements like, "in other TES games Nightblades wore light armour, looooook it says it right here in the description" when light armour was a totally different thing in some of those games.

I'm sorry but you're literally just taking some words and because they are the same acting like it's the same thing without any consideration for context. In Skyrim light armour was ESO medium armour, in Morrowwind light armour was the stealth armour and Bosmer and Khajiit gained a bonus to it just like ESO's medium armour, heavy was the other choice, again in Oblivion light armour was chain and leather.

If that wasn't enough to screw up the armour comparisons in ESO then they go and make Nightblade abilities scale off melee/medium armour critical.

Varicite · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

If that wasn't enough to screw up the armour comparisons in ESO then they go and make Nightblade abilities scale off melee/medium armour critical.

This is the case for literally every class in this game besides Sorc, who can never benefit from weapon crit w/ their class abilities.

NBs are not some kind of special case here.

starkerealm · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

It has everything to do with it.

Look, I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with it. ESO is nothing like the TES games that came before it. You can't make statements like, "in other TES games Nightblades wore light armour, looooook it says it right here in the description" when light armour was a totally different thing in some of those games.

I'm sorry but you're literally just taking some words and because they are the same acting like it's the same thing without any consideration for context. In Skyrim light armour was ESO medium armour, in Morrowwind light armour was the stealth armour and Bosmer and Khajiit gained a bonus to it just like ESO's medium armour, heavy was the other choice, again in Oblivion light armour was chain and leather.

If that wasn't enough to screw up the armour comparisons in ESO then they go and make Nightblade abilities scale off melee/medium armour critical.

I for one welcome the return of medium armor to an Elder Scrolls game... waitamoment...

While I do think Vizier is taking the analogy way too far. The general idea that a Nightblade was specifically a kind of stealth focused mage does mesh pretty well with what we have in game.

For someone that wanted a non-magical assassin type character, the Nightblade looks really wonky. "Why does my spell power matter? I'm just slashing a dude with this knife I just summoned from the aether."

Also, the connection is even more tenuous given that Dragon Knights and Templars aren't traditional Elder Scrolls classes, and the Sorcerer used to be, specifically, a heavy armor caster.

But, at present, if you want to build a non-mage character, you need to eschew your class abilities completely. All of those skill lines are inherently magical.

Vizier · September 2014

@‌ Above

Look. I'm not saying it's great. I'm just pointing out what it is. A class based on and modeled after previous TES incarnations of the class...period.

Do folks upset with the design and the fact that most players done light armor and are staff wielding have a legit beef that med armor, bow and blade stamina focused builds have been neglected? ABSO-F'ING-LUTELY. The ESO Rogue/Assasin character should have been designed with the classic options at least being viable. It should have been expected that people would want that. Hell, I want that, but it doesn't change what a TES Nightblade is. The model upon which this class was based. It is what it is and it isn't a Thief / Ranger.

If people keep trying to make the argument that the NB class isn't what it is supposed to be those involved in the development of this game are just going to look at it as if you don't know what your talking about. The NB class is exactly what it is supposed to be, albeit broken, and it clearly follows the traditional TES NB design. If the conversation is more about fundamentally changing the class to something else or introducing another class that satisfies those wanting a more mundane stealther then that is, IMO, the more effective way to approach it.

Not saying peeps don't have a legit gripe about being denied traditional digs..just sayin.

Aeratus · September 2014

For someone that wanted a non-magical assassin type character, the Nightblade looks really wonky. "Why does my spell power matter? I'm just slashing a dude with this knife I just summoned from the aether."

It's not just assassins. There is no non-magical anything in ESO. All four classes are just different types of mages.

Dragonknight: Fire and earth magic mage
Templar: Healing and holy magic mage
Sorceror: Lightning and conjuration mage
Nightblade: Shadow and draining mage

GwaynLoki · September 2014

Halke wrote: »

Anyone have a link to a page with what base stat, power, and crit NB class skills scale from (and any others if you have it)? I feel odd having to ask that but apparently finding out what contributes to what is not as simple as I thought.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/how-much-visible-damage-does-spell-damage-give/ #15:

"Class skills = max magicka + spell damage + spell crit (exception below)

Class melee range skills = melee crit not spell crit

Melee weapon skills = weapon damage + max stamina and melee crit

Staff weapon skills = weapon damage + max magicka and spell crit"

My own summary for mitigation: If it crits with spell crit it goes against spell resistance, if it crits with weapon crit it goes against armor mitigation.

starkerealm · September 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

For someone that wanted a non-magical assassin type character, the Nightblade looks really wonky. "Why does my spell power matter? I'm just slashing a dude with this knife I just summoned from the aether."

It's not just assassins. There is no non-magical anything in ESO. All four classes are just different types of mages.

Dragonknight: Fire and earth magic mage
Templar: Healing and holy magic mage
Sorceror: Lightning and conjuration mage
Nightblade: Shadow and draining mage

Yeah, I thought I actually said this, but apparently I took out the paragraph before posting. It's where that line about, if you want to play a non-magical character, you basically have to ignore your class skill lines entirely, came from.

Junkogen · September 2014

Azoryl wrote: »

Argonians make excellent NB also.

The potion buff stacks... so a NB Argonian Alchemist gets 45% increase effectiveness and 30% extra time... that is insane

3% health... all characters use health

6% increase healing... excellent for any character but combines with 15% from siphon for 21% extra for siphons.

Argonian racials are way underpowered. They're too conditional. The potion buff is expensive to maintain. No other race has an ability like that which requires so much time to collect ingredients or money buying them. It looks good on paper, but it requires too much upkeep. And 30% extra time is 3 secs. Potions only last 10 secs.

3% boost to health? Not great.

6% boost to healing is also underwhelming. Given that all NB heals are HoTs, how much is 6% of barely anything.

I just hope that "amphibious" works with poisons if they implement them. That's the only way to redeem the Argonians' weak racial set.

Aeratus · September 2014

Better to have an expensive option than to not have the option at all.

Seriously, the potion buff is not expensive at the endgame. In trials, I always use custom potions at every meaningful opportunity, and nothing less is expected in these circumstances.

Junkogen · September 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Better to have an expensive option than to not have the option at all.

Seriously, the potion buff is not expensive at the endgame. In trials, I always use custom potions at every meaningful opportunity, and nothing less is expected in these circumstances.

"You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank's table that you've missed your God-given right to something better."

It's people like you that are the reason Argonians will never see a decent racial buff or reimagining. It's always about the damn potion increase. Not good enough, in my eyes. They deserve more and it's your willingness to settle for less that's holding us back.

Phinix1 · September 2014

Junkogen wrote: »

Not good enough, in my eyes. They deserve more and it's your willingness to settle for less that's holding us back.

Relevant social commentary is universally relevant.

starkerealm · September 2014

Junkogen wrote: »

Azoryl wrote: »

Argonians make excellent NB also.

The potion buff stacks... so a NB Argonian Alchemist gets 45% increase effectiveness and 30% extra time... that is insane

3% health... all characters use health

6% increase healing... excellent for any character but combines with 15% from siphon for 21% extra for siphons.

Argonian racials are way underpowered. They're too conditional. The potion buff is expensive to maintain. No other race has an ability like that which requires so much time to collect ingredients or money buying them. It looks good on paper, but it requires too much upkeep. And 30% extra time is 3 secs. Potions only last 10 secs.

3% boost to health? Not great.

6% boost to healing is also underwhelming. Given that all NB heals are HoTs, how much is 6% of barely anything.

I just hope that "amphibious" works with poisons if they implement them. That's the only way to redeem the Argonians' weak racial set.

There's the stray possibility that some day we might actually see the ability to dive under water, at which point the Argonian water breathing could make them useful, or at least interesting, for getting to otherwise unaccessible areas.