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F2P - Why it would ruin this game
daneyulebub17_ESO
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Those of you who claim to love the game but think F2P is an option should take the time to look into F2P and just what it does to games. Maybe then you'll see why its such a hot button issue around here and quit bringing it up.
You'll see examples of how F2P ruins the existing population of the games it infects by focusing on frivolous, impulsive players, how it turns all content releases into whatever-can-generate-the-most-short-term-revenue-cash-grabs instead of what makes sense in the long term for the game itself. You'll see how the infected game becomes Pay-2-Win--(they ALWAYS become Pay-2-Win)-- no matter how much the makers promise they will only allow "convenience" and "cosmetic" buys. They simply can't resist the potential revenue. You'll also see how the game inevitably goes Easy-Mode because F2P makes the managers and bean counters horrified that if things are hard a player might be frustrated and quit instead of buying the latest pretty colored horse. So the game is constantly dumbed-down.
F2P also uglifies a game, cheapens its feel, and soon any (discriminating) player is no longer immersed in the game world they loved--they're just wading through an endless series of blatant bids to entice suckers to buy more bling. Everything turns into a potential purchase. Every endeavor worth working for, every possible inconvenience that makes a game challenging, has an optional "Buy in store" shortcut blinking at you.
A subscription game is much more of a contract between equals. I pay you for a product, you work on the product. If the product isn't good, I'll stop paying. There's no trickery, no cheap sales tactics. The game part is removed from the selling part, other than the core and productive incentive of a consumer judging the overall quality vs the price.
F2P is nothing like that--it's at its core nothing but a predatory relationship with the developer trying 24/7 to get you to give them more money, any way they can squeeze it out. What was once fun and free, with a price tag feels tawdry and exploitative and just nickle and diming. All development ends up driven by a management that increasingly just wants to see more-more-more store purchase opportunities worked in, and the metric of "game quality" takes a distant back seat to short term profitability.
And the population! In Subscription games like this one, the emphasis is on keeping smart, caring players who value a good product and actually incentivize improving the game with their subscription money. In F2P, it's the opposite. The impulsive, undiscriminating players become cherished because they're the ones most likely to fall for the flashing buy-this-bling buttons and don't care about (or actually demand) a lack of challenge. They also couldn't care less about things like lore, or atmosphere, or aesthetics, or long term playability. Plus, the players that do care about those things tend to leave, leaving that type of player even more in control of where the focus of the game goes. Until the game gets so bad even those players start leaving in pursuit of the next shiny thing.
Both types of games can obviously make money, but only one makes a good game.
Edited by daneyulebub17_ESO on September 4, 2014 7:01PM You'll see examples of how F2P ruins the existing population of the games it infects by focusing on frivolous, impulsive players, how it turns all content releases into whatever-can-generate-the-most-short-term-revenue-cash-grabs instead of what makes sense in the long term for the game itself. You'll see how the infected game becomes Pay-2-Win--(they ALWAYS become Pay-2-Win)-- no matter how much the makers promise they will only allow "convenience" and "cosmetic" buys. They simply can't resist the potential revenue. You'll also see how the game inevitably goes Easy-Mode because F2P makes the managers and bean counters horrified that if things are hard a player might be frustrated and quit instead of buying the latest pretty colored horse. So the game is constantly dumbed-down.
F2P also uglifies a game, cheapens its feel, and soon any (discriminating) player is no longer immersed in the game world they loved--they're just wading through an endless series of blatant bids to entice suckers to buy more bling. Everything turns into a potential purchase. Every endeavor worth working for, every possible inconvenience that makes a game challenging, has an optional "Buy in store" shortcut blinking at you.
A subscription game is much more of a contract between equals. I pay you for a product, you work on the product. If the product isn't good, I'll stop paying. There's no trickery, no cheap sales tactics. The game part is removed from the selling part, other than the core and productive incentive of a consumer judging the overall quality vs the price.
F2P is nothing like that--it's at its core nothing but a predatory relationship with the developer trying 24/7 to get you to give them more money, any way they can squeeze it out. What was once fun and free, with a price tag feels tawdry and exploitative and just nickle and diming. All development ends up driven by a management that increasingly just wants to see more-more-more store purchase opportunities worked in, and the metric of "game quality" takes a distant back seat to short term profitability.
And the population! In Subscription games like this one, the emphasis is on keeping smart, caring players who value a good product and actually incentivize improving the game with their subscription money. In F2P, it's the opposite. The impulsive, undiscriminating players become cherished because they're the ones most likely to fall for the flashing buy-this-bling buttons and don't care about (or actually demand) a lack of challenge. They also couldn't care less about things like lore, or atmosphere, or aesthetics, or long term playability. Plus, the players that do care about those things tend to leave, leaving that type of player even more in control of where the focus of the game goes. Until the game gets so bad even those players start leaving in pursuit of the next shiny thing.
Both types of games can obviously make money, but only one makes a good game.
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c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure zos stated the servers would go offline before f2p happened. All these posts are pointless.
/thread
Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.9 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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Please remove the word 'casual' from your original post. I otherwise agree with it, but as a casual player i am very much offended by your misguided use of the word. Thank you.daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »... casual ... casual ...
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daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Please remove the word 'casual' from your original post. I otherwise agree with it, but as a casual player i am very much offended by your misguided use of the word. Thank you.daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »... casual ... casual ...
Understood and agreed. I had used the word in a bit of a different sense--more in the sense of "uninvested" or "undiscriminating" I think than casual gamer, but I take your point.Edited by daneyulebub17_ESO on September 4, 2014 7:11PMThis message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
Please print this email and keep it for your records.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭I don't like f2p games myself but I think it is hard to argue this isn't already a sinking population. Look at games like SWTOR it went from a graveyard to a huge money maker.1
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Winnower✭✭✭✭it would certainly ruin the game *for me* because I'd leave. I've learned my lessons regarding playing free-to-pay-to-play games.VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone5 -
Pretty sure zos stated the servers would go offline before f2p happened. All these posts are pointless.
/thread
agree zos should remove posts like this.
subscription is the best way in my opinion all the people that think the game should be free to play go play them instead i have played free to play and its pay to win!
Meh!6 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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This is factually incorrect and makes it hard to take you seriously, which is saying a lot because the rest of your post uses overblown language when discussing how one pays for a video game.daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »they ALWAYS become Pay-2-Win5 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »
This is factually incorrect and makes it hard to take you seriously, which is saying a lot because the rest of your post uses overblown language when discussing how one pays for a video game.daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »they ALWAYS become Pay-2-Win
every ftp mmo I played this has proven true for. Consistently, though some more than others. Also, even if it didn't start that way, they became accustomed to high turnover and were less interested in maintaining players long terms or what the community wanted, and more interested in squeezing whatever they could out of you while you were around.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭F2p would run the older gamers out of the game ...including myself....i do not want to play with a foul mouth kid...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables5 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure zos stated the servers would go offline before f2p happened. All these posts are pointless.
/thread
agree zos should remove posts like this.
subscription is the best way in my opinion all the people that think the game should be free to play go play them instead i have played free to play and its pay to win!
So all posts stating an opinion about F2P should be removed?
Take a hike.
This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
Please print this email and keep it for your records.3 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »
This is factually incorrect and makes it hard to take you seriously, which is saying a lot because the rest of your post uses overblown language when discussing how one pays for a video game.daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »they ALWAYS become Pay-2-Win
Waits for example of a game that added F2P that didn't add Pay 2 Win elements within a year.
(Also--overblown? Seriously? What, some of the words had too many syllables? Have no idea where you even get that from.)
This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
Please print this email and keep it for your records.1 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure zos stated the servers would go offline before f2p happened. All these posts are pointless.
/thread
ZoS says a lot of things, doesn't mean it's going to happen--and it doesn't preclude people talking about it. Regarding F2P, people are predicting it, asking for it, arguing about, all the time. This was simply a post inspired by the recent rash of them, laying out in detail the reasons why F2P sucks.
(Not as much as snide little "/thread" comments though.)
Edited by daneyulebub17_ESO on September 4, 2014 8:57PMThis message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
Please print this email and keep it for your records.0 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭cant ruin whats alrdy ruined.@heyguyslol
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Theodora West
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Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19757 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »cant ruin whats alrdy ruined.
Like some people's ability to write intelligibly?
This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
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ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »cant ruin whats alrdy ruined.
Like some people's ability to write intelligibly?
Don't start man. He's another one of those guy who just hates everything and let every post know that he's not happy. Better to just ignore those type.3 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't support cash shops, or F2P games, as I have yet to play one that didn't give combat advantage to players who shelled out cash.
With that said... this game might as well be F2P already. Nothing about this game is AAA quality. Well known bugs persist in the game 5 months after launch, new bugs introduced with every patch. Major imbalance with the only two resource systems in the game. Useless skills remain useless. Overpowered weapons/armor remain overpowered. Cyrodiil is still suffering from server side performance issues.
I love TES franchise and honestly do not want to quit on this game... I have dreamt of an MMO TES game for a decade. But the quality of this game is so poor, I feel that it basically is a F2P game.3 -
ndantony✭✭If ESO goes F2P, it will die. It doesn't work that way.
Also, I'm a casual players. I don't play everyday or on weekday although I'm fully aware and willing ZOS charging subscription. I don't like the forum to be flooded with F2P'ers and freeloaders with entitlement attitude and trolling around the forums. That said, I am also investing in another F2P game, Warframe, and GW2. I have spent and will continue to spend on each of those games about the same amount as I have with ESO's subscription. However, each model works well and fits exactly for each of those games only; and they are as successful as ESO is with P2P. Other copycats, die or are dying.0 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Actually if the game goes f2p there will be Wayyy more players..., but I won't be playing so yeah the game will be ruined0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From Michael Kirkbride's C0DA:
<Vivec> This time around, he's going for consumer culture at the cellular level, which is almost as bad!
<Alandro Sul> He's making another Numidium?!?
<Vivec> Worse, buddy. They're BUYING it.
Hits the nail on the head, imo.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Why you talking about F2P. I doubd that ESO become F2P in nearest few years.
2. Dont know why all moaning about it. The money you pay dont wasted. You pay for all CS, GM's and other peolpe who support game, develop new content and fixing bugs. If you want to work for free - fine, you may do it, but mostly peolple want to hear "thanks" for what they doing. Your payment and subscription is that "thanks".
3. All modern F2P games selling goods/packs/DLCs for money. And there's only one step form F2P to P2W.Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!0 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It seems to be an established truth among many of the followers on ESO's Facebook site, that the game will be free when it goes on console. I fear for the backlash when the console release happens and the console kiddies find out it isn't true... The good thing about it of course, is that the game flopping on console could result in all focus being on the PC version, and among other things we'll get a proper UI...0 -
Darka✭✭Businesses need to make profit
The Defender Gaming Community Est 2006
Juganoth - Late Night Gaming on Ebon Heart Pact/Wabbajack
Social Guild of Older Gamers
"To Those who walked before us
You made us what we are
To Those who come after us
Let us give as good as we got."0 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭People don't like F2P mmo for few thing- You ending up at the end spend more money in there cash shops.
- Almost all F2P turn in to P2W it may not be in way of better gear or weapon but the are those F2P mmo the make you pay extra to use content even tho it is free content if have subscriber which is wrong for that content are in stander game pack from start.
- Pay real money to get bigger bag space, normal exp rating in both PvE and PvP is just wrong in my book
- Getting limited reward from quest is just stupid way to force people to start subscriber
This just few thing list can go on at 1st look it may not look like P2W but it is and good example on this SWTOR for if you choose play F2P in that game this just few thing you have to face.
For F2P version of mmo game is just way for company to get fast money from random people that it isIf you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity1 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭People don't like F2P mmo for few thing- You ending up at the end spend more money in there cash shops.
- Almost all F2P turn in to P2W it may not be in way of better gear or weapon but the are those F2P mmo the make you pay extra to use content even tho it is free content if have subscriber which is wrong for that content are in stander game pack from start.
- Pay real money to get bigger bag space, normal exp rating in both PvE and PvP is just wrong in my book
- Getting limited reward from quest is just stupid way to force people to start subscriber
This just few thing list can go on at 1st look it may not look like P2W but it is and good example on this SWTOR for if you choose play F2P in that game this just few thing you have to face.
For F2P version of mmo game is just way for company to get fast money from random people that it is
You have limited use of the content - e.g. x number of times a week you can enter PvP and/or operations - but you are not barred from content entirely.
FTP are getting 'normal' exp in SWTOR. Subscriber exp was buffed by 25% when the game went FTP, it is the subscribers who do not get 'normal' exp.
As unlocks for storage, bag space, PvP and operation access etc. can all be bought for in game credits, the only thing 'forcing' a player to go from FTP to subscriber in SWTOR is the limit on the amount of credits they can hold. The AH has ruined the economy for everyone who hasn't played since launch - subscriber or non-subscriber alike.0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭The purpose of this game , just like the F2P one , is to get you to spend money.
Zen wants to make sure you stay subbed and keep paying.
The F2P game wants to make sure you want to buy this or that inside their shop.
All there is to it. Both of them are just a bunch of devs after money , which is fair , not many want to work for free."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭People don't like F2P mmo for few thing
- You ending up at the end spend more money in there cash shops.
- Almost all F2P turn in to P2W it may not be in way of better gear or weapon but the are those F2P mmo the make you pay extra to use content even tho it is free content if have subscriber which is wrong for that content are in stander game pack from start.
- Pay real money to get bigger bag space, normal exp rating in both PvE and PvP is just wrong in my book
- Getting limited reward from quest is just stupid way to force people to start subscriber
This just few thing list can go on at 1st look it may not look like P2W but it is and good example on this SWTOR for if you choose play F2P in that game this just few thing you have to face.
For F2P version of mmo game is just way for company to get fast money from random people that it is
You have limited use of the content - e.g. x number of times a week you can enter PvP and/or operations - but you are not barred from content entirely.
FTP are getting 'normal' exp in SWTOR. Subscriber exp was buffed by 25% when the game went FTP, it is the subscribers who do not get 'normal' exp.
As unlocks for storage, bag space, PvP and operation access etc. can all be bought for in game credits, the only thing 'forcing' a player to go from FTP to subscriber in SWTOR is the limit on the amount of credits they can hold. The AH has ruined the economy for everyone who hasn't played since launch - subscriber or non-subscriber alike.
Point is that still need pay money to get those thing unlock take Section X if you don't have a subscriber you have pay to unlock it if you don't have a subscriber you can't enter Makeb i could not enter Maked until a did subscriber to SWTOR most of end game content is limited to you if not have Preferred Status or Subscription hell even chat is limited if you are not have full subscription if you are not a subscriber member to SWTOR you hardly get any Customer Service Support ^^
Yes all can be bought with game credits but how do you pay for it if not with real money so in the end you end up pay more for those thing. You can say what you want about SWTOR it is P2W for if don't want spend any real money that game is very very limited game.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0
