~+~ Lets talk, diminishing returns ~+~

Emperor · September 2014

LOOK FOR EDITS AT END OF THIS POST FOR UPDATES

Before responding, please read the entire post and think about how it would effect the game instead of just posting the first thing that comes to mind please. I want this to be an intelligent discussion. That being said, I am open to all thoughts on the matter.

I don't usually like to mix PvP with PvE because they are both completely different play styles, but this is an exception I am willing to make.

Why does PvE not work like PvP in regards to rewards? In PvP you get AP for killing other players, taking keeps, etc, but the amount of AP you get depends on how many people helped you. In other words, you get diminishing returns. This is great because it encourages people to make different sized groups. For example, smaller groups can feel more rewarded when they take a keep or defeat the enemy while outnumbered because they get more AP for it.

I want that feeling in PvE too. I want to feel rewarded for defeating a tough boss with less people than the average group size requirement. Currently, I get the same amount of experience and loot for killing a tough boss whether I do it solo or with 20 other people.

Don't take this the wrong way, I understand Zenimax is trying to encourage group play, but that is why it would be diminishing returns instead of a flat decrease in amount of experience and rewards you would get. It would still be beneficial for you to group to complete a tough quest or boss fight.

This has been done in other games and I think it worked very well. Please share your thoughts on this idea in a constructive matter. I would love to hear ideas from other players and Zenimax.

EDIT 1:
Maybe Zenimax would decide on an "average group size" for any PvE event and if the group had less people they would get more exp/rewards. It would probably make sense to also lower the exp/rewards a bit depending on how many people were in the group over the "average group size", but that may not be required since some people would be upset.

spinedoc · September 2014

I don't have anything against this at all. It's a good idea. Don't reduce xp gain for anyone though, just increase it a bit the less people there are. Kind of like dividing up a pizza pie, the less people there are the more slices they get.

Emperor · September 2014

spinedoc wrote: »

I don't have anything against this at all. It's a good idea. Don't reduce xp gain for anyone though, just increase it a bit the less people there are. Kind of like dividing up a pizza pie, the less people there are the more slices they get.

Exactly. I was thinking Zenimax would decide on an "average group size" for any PvE event and if the group had less people they would get more exp/rewards. It would probably make sense to also lower the exp/rewards a bit depending on how many people were in the group over the "average group size", but that may not be required since some people would be upset.

Reiterpallasch · September 2014

~+~ I'd rather not ~+~

Emperor · September 2014

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

~+~ I'd rather not ~+~

Thanks for the bump. It would be more beneficial to me if you would explain your opinion on the matter though.

lathbury · September 2014

Makes sense everywhere except crag lorn as a lot of quests are 4 only.

Emperor · September 2014

lathbury wrote: »

Makes sense everywhere except crag lorn as a lot of quests are 4 only.

I've done most of the craglorn quests and dungeons as a 2 man group so it would still be beneficial.

Osmiumium · September 2014

spinedoc wrote: »

I don't have anything against this at all. It's a good idea. Don't reduce xp gain for anyone though, just increase it a bit the less people there are. Kind of like dividing up a pizza pie, the less people there are the more slices they get.

You will still have the situation of "feeling" penalized in your xp gain whenever anyone helps...it will not be interpreted as a bonus for being solo, but a penalty for having help.

And therefore, anytime someone comes along to "help", many solo'ers will feel angry, feeling cheated of xp and accuse the helper of griefing.

Currently, any that helps not only doesn't penalize the person who originally tagged the mob, but the helper also gets full xp. So no one cares about helpers, no one treats mobs as "their mobs" or get in disputes about waiting your turn etc.

The suggestion *will* just end up creating friction, disputes, griefing, anger, etc.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

so you don't really want diminishing returns, you want increasing returns. At first I thought you were asking them to make things harder, but you are actually asking for them to give you more exp for soloing the ridiculously easy pve content.

Nestor · September 2014

Currently is fine the way that it is. Two Reasons:

1. It does not matter reward wise, how many people are around. Otherwise, I might be encouraged to wait for the current group to finish up, then the boss or dungeon respawn, then I would do the content.

2. It's not like Exp is that hard to come by in this game. I have just done the main/major quests in the leveling zones, and based on the list of Achievements, I have missed 90% of the non quest content in each and every zone I have been in. I still leveled faster than the zones. This is even sneaking past mobs in some dungeons rather than engaging them. In VR Content, the same thing. I am just about to VR4 in Caldwell's Silver and just entered Eastmarch, so things are progressing according to plan there too. I am still missing 90% of the non quest content in VR.

So, there is more than enough Exp to go around the way things are now.

spoqster · September 2014

Sounds good. Do a poll so we'll see how other people feel about it.

Emperor · September 2014

Osmiumium wrote: »

spinedoc wrote: »

I don't have anything against this at all. It's a good idea. Don't reduce xp gain for anyone though, just increase it a bit the less people there are. Kind of like dividing up a pizza pie, the less people there are the more slices they get.

You will still have the situation of "feeling" penalized in your xp gain whenever anyone helps...it will not be interpreted as a bonus for being solo, but a penalty for having help.

And therefore, anytime someone comes along to "help", many solo'ers will feel angry, feeling cheated of xp and accuse the helper of griefing.

Currently, any that helps not only doesn't penalize the person who originally tagged the mob, but the helper also gets full xp. So no one cares about helpers, no one treats mobs as "their mobs" or get in disputes about waiting your turn etc.

The suggestion *will* just end up creating friction, disputes, griefing, anger, etc.

Interesting. Thank you for pointing this out. I did not think about that. That could definitely cause some issues

Emperor · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

so you don't really want diminishing returns, you want increasing returns. At first I thought you were asking them to make things harder, but you are actually asking for them to give you more exp for soloing the ridiculously easy pve content.

At first I wanted diminishing returns, but then I figured I would get nothing but grief from players complaining that I wanted to lower their rewards

Super_Sonico · September 2014

How is ZOS encouraging group play in PvP if you get less reward (AP) for a larger group?
How is ZOS encouraging group play in PvE if you don't get any different reward for being in a group versus playing solo?

Emperor · September 2014

Super_Sonico wrote: »

How is ZOS encouraging group play in PvP if you get less reward (AP) for a larger group?
How is ZOS encouraging group play in PvE if you don't get any different reward for being in a group versus playing solo?

They are still rewarding group play because it is diminishing returns which means it would still be better experience/hour to play in a group, but you would get more experience than you do now as a single player.