Here's how ESO's 3rdperson camera SHOULD be adjustable to look.

RSram · August 2014

I prefer to play all games in 1st person view, but in ESO, I'm am force to switch to 3rd person because you have almost no situation awareness when in 1st person view.

The textures look like scrap in 1st person view. In 3rd person view the game looks awesome.

The problem for me with the 3rd person view is that the camera allows objects in the foreground (vegetation, trees, building structures, and etc.) to obscure my view and the only way to change this is to zoom in really close to the back of your character which then limits the situational awareness around your character.

Despite the camera issue, I learned to like the 3rd view now that I have been playing this way for several months. It’s too hard fighting mobs using the 1st person view.

Tapio75 · August 2014

All i really want is that camera position is adjustable in x and y axis.

I only see with my other eye and having the camera off center makes a great gap to what i can see to right side of the screen. You can see how this is bad when camera is right from the character?

It is also has an awkward feel to it when moving.

Why i want the position to be adjustable?

Because not many people are comfortable with what someone else likes. Me for example would liuke the reticle be where the head is so that i could aim with my head. Others want it over the head and when x and y axis can both be adjusted like in Skyrim ini file., there is right placement for everyone.

GnatB · August 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

Curious, I tend to be of the opinion that the biggest mistake ZoS made with this game was *having* a 3rd person mode. TES has always been pretty first person centric.

And there are already tons of 3rd person MMORPG's out there. Don't *really* need another one. But, adding 3rd person mode means the game presumably had to be developed largely around 3rd person. Or it probably would have been too easy. 3rd person gives you a LOT more information than in 1st. And you want to make it that much more informative. You think it's hard seeing the red danger zones in 3rd person without zooming out farther? Just try it in first person.

1st-person mode originally wasn't in the game even this game was designed around 3rd-person which is the standard camera angle for any MMORPG. The problem with first-person mode is what you said: it's too constricted a view for competitive mass-scale battles. While ESO does bear the "Elder Scrolls" name, it was designed as an elder scrolls MMO, not an elder scrolls game that happens to have online play. Finally, this is about comfort (and even motion sickness for some) and gameplay, not first-person view and its inherent restrictions. I agree with @Abagaile that the UI and camera should not be part of the difficulty of the game. The actual gameplay should be the challenge.

1. Yes, I realize the game was designed around 3rd person, and 1st person was a poorly implemented afterthought. I'm saying that was a massive mistake. You can't do both. And *this* MMORPG, out of all MMORPG's, should have been first person.
2. Yes, I realize pretty much every other MMORPG uses a 3rd person camera, which is precisely why we don't really need another that does the same. Pretty much every other MMORPG also uses "tab targetting" and cooldowns. Didn't mean this game had to. And in fact it doesn't.
3. It's called realism (and thus more immersion). You wouldn't have a third person view in reality either in a big battle. If you get blindsided you get blindsided. That's how reality works. Being able to surprise/sneak up on somebody from behind because, quite frankly, they can't see behind themselves. First person isn't inferior gameplay, it's different gameplay.

Ziz · August 2014

@gnatb it's people like you who are ruining this game. Not only are you so delusional you think first person is worth using you take it further by trying to force this pos on others.

Why is it so hard to understand, give every one the options they want and STOP forcing stuff upon us.

FYI:
- there is tab targeting
- inferior means lower, first person has LOWER visibility third person so in fact it is inferior

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Ziz wrote: »

@gnatb it's people like you who are ruining this game. Not only are you so delusional you think first person is worth using you take it further by trying to force this pos on others.

Why is it so hard to understand, give every one the options they want and STOP forcing stuff upon us.

The ironic thing is, they often espouse how "elitists" and "mmo players" are trying to force things on them, except the truth is actually the other way around. I don't think I've ever seen someone ask for first-person to be removed, for example

. Yet, ask for optional preferences to set up already-existing features how you want to use them, and unless it is the specific thing they personally want, they will flame you into cinders for daring to suggest such a concept.

Ziz · August 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Ziz wrote: »

@gnatb it's people like you who are ruining this game. Not only are you so delusional you think first person is worth using you take it further by trying to force this pos on others.

Why is it so hard to understand, give every one the options they want and STOP forcing stuff upon us.

The ironic thing is, they often espouse how "elitists" and "mmo players" are trying to force things on them, except the truth is actually the other way around. I don't think I've ever seen someone ask for first-person to be removed, for example . Yet, ask for optional preferences to set up already-existing features how you want to use them, and unless it is the specific thing they personally want, they will flame you into cinders for daring to suggest such a concept.

What's worse is it's not these people who are the problem. The developers are the real problem. To stubborn or stupid to make simple changes that would make so many people happy but instead making things worse. Like reducing the distance in beta for no reason (no one asked for it and no explanation was given)

technohic · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

Curious, I tend to be of the opinion that the biggest mistake ZoS made with this game was *having* a 3rd person mode. TES has always been pretty first person centric.

And there are already tons of 3rd person MMORPG's out there. Don't *really* need another one. But, adding 3rd person mode means the game presumably had to be developed largely around 3rd person. Or it probably would have been too easy. 3rd person gives you a LOT more information than in 1st. And you want to make it that much more informative. You think it's hard seeing the red danger zones in 3rd person without zooming out farther? Just try it in first person.

1st-person mode originally wasn't in the game even this game was designed around 3rd-person which is the standard camera angle for any MMORPG. The problem with first-person mode is what you said: it's too constricted a view for competitive mass-scale battles. While ESO does bear the "Elder Scrolls" name, it was designed as an elder scrolls MMO, not an elder scrolls game that happens to have online play. Finally, this is about comfort (and even motion sickness for some) and gameplay, not first-person view and its inherent restrictions. I agree with @Abagaile that the UI and camera should not be part of the difficulty of the game. The actual gameplay should be the challenge.

1. Yes, I realize the game was designed around 3rd person, and 1st person was a poorly implemented afterthought. I'm saying that was a massive mistake. You can't do both. And *this* MMORPG, out of all MMORPG's, should have been first person.
2. Yes, I realize pretty much every other MMORPG uses a 3rd person camera, which is precisely why we don't really need another that does the same. Pretty much every other MMORPG also uses "tab targetting" and cooldowns. Didn't mean this game had to. And in fact it doesn't.
3. It's called realism (and thus more immersion). You wouldn't have a third person view in reality either in a big battle. If you get blindsided you get blindsided. That's how reality works. Being able to surprise/sneak up on somebody from behind because, quite frankly, they can't see behind themselves. First person isn't inferior gameplay, it's different gameplay.

I played Skyrim mostly in 3rd person view. 1st person made me nautious in those tight dungeons. I would snap to first person for better aim or to read something.

Would like better options for the views to do that here.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Ziz wrote: »

FYI:
- there is tab targeting

I didn't know anyone could possibly not know that there is tab targeting in ESO... I just re-read that post now that you responded, and wow.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

technohic wrote: »

I played Skyrim mostly in 3rd person view. 1st person made me nautious in those tight dungeons. I would snap to first person for better aim or to read something.

Would like better options for the views to do that here.

Can't say first-person and RPG is a good mix for me whenever I've tried it in the handful of games that have done it. I just hope they add some customization options like I outlined in the original post at some point; they are sorely needed.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

All i really want is that camera position is adjustable in x and y axis.

I only see with my other eye and having the camera off center makes a great gap to what i can see to right side of the screen. You can see how this is bad when camera is right from the character?

It is also has an awkward feel to it when moving.

Why i want the position to be adjustable?

Because not many people are comfortable with what someone else likes. Me for example would liuke the reticle be where the head is so that i could aim with my head. Others want it over the head and when x and y axis can both be adjusted like in Skyrim ini file., there is right placement for everyone.

This is an excellent case in point as to why all of these options outlined really should be implemented. Particularly, I want to highlight your line of reasoning that this is a good idea "because not many people are comfortable with what someone else likes". Options are good! I couldn't agree more.

Braddass · August 2014

I agree. I have played several MMORPGs and right now the view seems rather constricted compared to other games I have played.

When I healed raids in WoW, I would sometimes put the camera right over my head and zoomed out quit a bit, just so I could get a better view of what was happening. I know that would not be practical here, due to the targeting mechanism, but it was helpful at times.

I guess my point is that different people play in different ways, and to the extent possible, they should give people the ability to play the way they like.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · August 2014

Just to say my opinion here. This is my first MMO and 1-1 1-2 battles in 1PW are quite fun in pve, larger group gives me THE sweat. But it is just impossible to use it on pvp, due the fact you can't see what is going on?!

But here is what i suggest, one "only 1PW" campaign to cyrodiil. I mean that could be some serious fun!

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Braddass wrote: »

I agree. I have played several MMORPGs and right now the view seems rather constricted compared to other games I have played.

When I healed raids in WoW, I would sometimes put the camera right over my head and zoomed out quit a bit, just so I could get a better view of what was happening. I know that would not be practical here, due to the targeting mechanism, but it was helpful at times.

I guess my point is that different people play in different ways, and to the extent possible, they should give people the ability to play the way they like.

Definitely agree, I personally like really high zoom distance, though I'd have to see how it worked out as a dps with the reticule as far as being way above

. I'd love to see the option for as much as they think is fair.

Desdemonte · August 2014

I've always hated the off center crosshairs. I'd love to be zoomed in and have the crosshairs over my head like in most other games.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Desdemonte wrote: »

I've always hated the off center crosshairs. I'd love to be zoomed in and have the crosshairs over my head like in most other games.

Yeah, I'd like to center it and zoom further out, but that's what options would allow: both of us to get what we want

.

LtCrunch · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

Curious, I tend to be of the opinion that the biggest mistake ZoS made with this game was *having* a 3rd person mode. TES has always been pretty first person centric.

And there are already tons of 3rd person MMORPG's out there. Don't *really* need another one. But, adding 3rd person mode means the game presumably had to be developed largely around 3rd person. Or it probably would have been too easy. 3rd person gives you a LOT more information than in 1st. And you want to make it that much more informative. You think it's hard seeing the red danger zones in 3rd person without zooming out farther? Just try it in first person.

Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all had a 3rd person mode. I've always preferred playing TES games in 3rd person, *especially* Skyrim with all of that camera shaking from melee combat. The "modern" TES games hav been no more "first person centric" than 3rd person centric. For you TES might be a first person game, but for me it's always been a third person game with a splash of first person at times, and that's exactly how I play this game as well.

Options are never a bad thing.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Nope, options are not a bad thing at all. In this case they are only good.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

TheSojourner wrote: »

I'm all for more options.

However, I'm more concerned about your UI. Good god, I'm so glad that's not default. Looks like a WoW mod or something.

Haha, I don't know how I missed this rather funny comment until just now. I left my combat log open (which is bound to a hotkey for toggling on/off)... with it up the extra chat space is large, sure

.

The rest of it though? It's just as clean (arguably moreso) and definitely more compact than the stock UI while requiring less of my time spent staring at a jumbo full-screen map thanks to the minimap in the top right. The only outright additional thing otherwise is the long-term buff icon area at the very bottom right corner which is barely 1/50th of my screen area and keeps me from having to check my character sheet repeatedly to make sure my buffs are active still. Again a cleaner solution than the stock UI there. The health/resource bars actually are much less stylized and take up less screens pace than the default ones, too even.

Not sure how that makes it into a "WoW mod" which I assume is your way of saying it is somehow bulky?... but really my addon loadout and the horrifically lacking stock game user interface (no text to even see how many hitpoints you have, instead asking you to pixel-count during combat? as one ludicrous example of how bad it is) is completely off the thread topic anyway, so I'll just mention I only have played WOW for 2 weeks total ever and leave it at that

.

EDIT: Just on a lighthearted note, are you saying this, which is how my UI normally looks

:

is worse looking than seeing this constantly?

Smiteye · September 2014

Another week no reply...

.

Soloeus · September 2014

This change would be nice I only play in 3rd Person and I hate the offset.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · September 2014

You use to many addons screen looks at mess

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

inspiral1 wrote: »

You use to many addons screen looks at mess

A very insightful comment in regards to camera options.

GnatB · September 2014

1. Arena and Daggerall didn't have 3rd person. Up 'till this game, only 3/5ths had 3rd person. That makes the series pretty much first person centric.
2. This game doesn't have tab tagetting. I can't believe that anybody thinks it does. It has tab soft lock. You don't target things by hitting "tab" until it's selected and have all your attacks hit that target. If your cross hairs are on a different target, doesn't matter what you're locked on, you'll hit that other target. The soft lock only determines which enemy is hit when they are overlapping in the cross hairs. Targeting is done via your crosshairs, not tab.
3. First person is inferior for omniscient situational awareness. No argument. 3rd person is inferior for realistic blindspots and immersiveness in the "you are there" sense. Again, different gameplay. They both have their pros and cons. Neither is universally superior or inferior to the other. They. Are. Different.
4. More options are fine when the options don't conflict. The fact that ESO was designed around 3rd person gameplay makes it really... painful... to play in first. It may be an option, but it's a very painful option due to the mechanics reliance on 3rd person. Had they designed the game around first person, those mechanics wouldn't have been implemented.
5. You're right, 1st person view is hardly worth playing in because the game was entirely designed around 3rd person. Which is pretty much the whole point of my argument. Thank you for agreeing with me. Expanding the 3rd person view farther out just makes that existing imbalance even worse.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · September 2014

Meh. My Vampire Witch is kicking ass and taking names at VR5 in only first person. You cannot circle strafe in third person, just run around like a fool. I have many 10s of thousands of hours playing FPS games and circle strafing is very good in this game. I sometimes come out of, rarely I admit, group combat with no damage at all. They never did quite figure out where I was.

If you don't know what just bit your ass you are not paying attention.

This is PvE but I play PvP just the same.

What is the minmap deal? I can pull up the main map while I'm traveling just fine and I only need to check if I have the direction etc right. Just takes a second.

Kre · September 2014

I'm not a fan of the crosshairs being to the left of my character AT ALL even when your zoomed all the way out your character is still slightly to the left, and it makes it very hard to be that far out inside dungeons where the camera will zoom in and out depending on if your back is close to a wall or in a low ceiling area. I know this is a traditional 3rd person view of skyrim but as for an MMO its not very inciting. I don't even play in 3rd person because of it. I would very much like a view that you can zoom in and out in 3rd person view directly behind my character.

Slelis · September 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

is worse looking than seeing this constantly?

Sorry to be a dork but what mod are you using for your HP bars?

Smiteye · September 2014

Slelis wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

TheSojourner wrote: »

is worse looking than seeing this constantly?

Sorry to be a dork but what mod are you using for your HP bars?

That looks like Foundry Tactical Combat's unit frames.

Smiteye · September 2014

GnatB wrote: »

1. Arena and Daggerall didn't have 3rd person. Up 'till this game, only 3/5ths had 3rd person. That makes the series pretty much first person centric.
2. This game doesn't have tab tagetting. I can't believe that anybody thinks it does. It has tab soft lock. You don't target things by hitting "tab" until it's selected and have all your attacks hit that target. If your cross hairs are on a different target, doesn't matter what you're locked on, you'll hit that other target. The soft lock only determines which enemy is hit when they are overlapping in the cross hairs. Targeting is done via your crosshairs, not tab.
3. First person is inferior for omniscient situational awareness. No argument. 3rd person is inferior for realistic blindspots and immersiveness in the "you are there" sense. Again, different gameplay. They both have their pros and cons. Neither is universally superior or inferior to the other. They. Are. Different.
4. More options are fine when the options don't conflict. The fact that ESO was designed around 3rd person gameplay makes it really... painful... to play in first. It may be an option, but it's a very painful option due to the mechanics reliance on 3rd person. Had they designed the game around first person, those mechanics wouldn't have been implemented.
5. You're right, 1st person view is hardly worth playing in because the game was entirely designed around 3rd person. Which is pretty much the whole point of my argument. Thank you for agreeing with me. Expanding the 3rd person view farther out just makes that existing imbalance even worse.

1. Who cares about whether games 15 years ago with the same series did or didn't have it? Times change.
2. This game has essentially tab target you just press tab to lock onto target and hover in general area on screen. It is a very large area.
4. The game was designed for third person and should therefore support it.
5. First person is annoying, not everyone likes it anyway. There is no imbalance here just inherent features to each. Fix the camera.

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Meh. My Vampire Witch is kicking ass and taking names at VR5 in only first person. You cannot circle strafe in third person, just run around like a fool. I have many 10s of thousands of hours playing FPS games and circle strafing is very good in this game. I sometimes come out of, rarely I admit, group combat with no damage at all. They never did quite figure out where I was.

If you don't know what just bit your ass you are not paying attention.

This is PvE but I play PvP just the same.

What is the minmap deal? I can pull up the main map while I'm traveling just fine and I only need to check if I have the direction etc right. Just takes a second.

You can circle strafe fine in thirdperson, move your mouse while pressing the A and D keys (strafe right/left default). Get real, when making comparisons. A minimap is a big deal, much less tedious than pulling up the jumbo one constantly I agree with attorney. Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean others dont.

They need to put proper options in so thirdperson works and is customizable just like first got. Some of us cant play a lot because of how horrid the camera system is even tho it was designed for it.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Meh. My Vampire Witch is kicking ass and taking names at VR5 in only first person. You cannot circle strafe in third person, just run around like a fool. I have many 10s of thousands of hours playing FPS games and circle strafing is very good in this game. I sometimes come out of, rarely I admit, group combat with no damage at all. They never did quite figure out where I was.

If you don't know what just bit your ass you are not paying attention.

This is PvE but I play PvP just the same.

What is the minmap deal? I can pull up the main map while I'm traveling just fine and I only need to check if I have the direction etc right. Just takes a second.

You can strafe in third-person mode the same way you would in first, using A for left and D for right

. As for the minimap it was a tongue-in-cheek post in response to comments of my UI being too bulky

.

Slelis wrote: »

Sorry to be a dork but what mod are you using for your HP bars?

Foundry Tactical Combat

. You can enable/disable buffs, scrolling combat text, the custom health bars, healthbar text, ultimate monitor, etc. etc. individually and use the parts you like/don't like in its options.

MornaBaine · September 2014

I would DEFINITELY prefer that both my character and targeting be centered as shown here. And that mini map up in the corner for us directionally challenged folks? OH GODS YES!