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Lets Talk About Bat Swarm..... Again
Kewljag_66_ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
My main issue is with the Invisibility morph
I know this has been brought up alot and there have been many discusions on it,... But if you keep bringing something up it seems to be the only way for it to really be reconized by the DEVs.
I didnt just die to the ability and come here to complain, i have been in Cyrodiil since the beginning, i am currently Alliance Rank 18b and mainly solo.
There are certain abilities on the battle field which really hurt the enjoyment of the game. It not just the ability but how often it happens. I dont die that often but when i do i can usually look at my death log and there will be damage from it somewhere in there.
Batswarm invisibility morph is just frankly.... too powerful, it is very hard to counter when you cant target the player. Immovable on top of this gives you zero counters.
Lets look at batswarm invisibility morph
Its 6 seconds of safety while dealing alot of aoe damage.
More aoe damage than most single target ultimates.
It is NOT a focus and there is no way to interupt it.
The caster is free to use other abilities at the same time and even block.
The caster also gets to regain life, stamina, and magika while using it.
Unlike other aoe ultimates (Standard)(Viel Blades) you can move batswarm
Invisiibility will not save you and if you run they can stick to you.
Even blocking it will do over 1200 damage to you while you cant block impulse
Fear is the only counter and Immovable takes that away.
Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
I just dont think an ability shoud have all these benefits with very little weaknesses.
What do i suggest?
Take away the invisibility morph and change it to something else.
OR
make it so you cannot move while in batswarm.
OR
Since it is an amazing ultimate make the cost reflect that... 600 ultimate just like Werewolf
One more note, Recently i went vamp and i tried bat swarm for 2 days and it just felt cheap, no one could beat me 1v1, and i won 95% of my 1v2s with it. There was no challenge with it, it felt like i was cheating and i dropped vamp. I currently use Viel of Blades or Death Stroke
Pirhana Shadowblade
NB Med Armor Bow / DW V12 AR 18b
Edited by Kewljag_66_ESO on September 2, 2014 7:25PM I know this has been brought up alot and there have been many discusions on it,... But if you keep bringing something up it seems to be the only way for it to really be reconized by the DEVs.
I didnt just die to the ability and come here to complain, i have been in Cyrodiil since the beginning, i am currently Alliance Rank 18b and mainly solo.
There are certain abilities on the battle field which really hurt the enjoyment of the game. It not just the ability but how often it happens. I dont die that often but when i do i can usually look at my death log and there will be damage from it somewhere in there.
Batswarm invisibility morph is just frankly.... too powerful, it is very hard to counter when you cant target the player. Immovable on top of this gives you zero counters.
Lets look at batswarm invisibility morph
Its 6 seconds of safety while dealing alot of aoe damage.
More aoe damage than most single target ultimates.
It is NOT a focus and there is no way to interupt it.
The caster is free to use other abilities at the same time and even block.
The caster also gets to regain life, stamina, and magika while using it.
Unlike other aoe ultimates (Standard)(Viel Blades) you can move batswarm
Invisiibility will not save you and if you run they can stick to you.
Even blocking it will do over 1200 damage to you while you cant block impulse
Fear is the only counter and Immovable takes that away.
Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
I just dont think an ability shoud have all these benefits with very little weaknesses.
What do i suggest?
Take away the invisibility morph and change it to something else.
OR
make it so you cannot move while in batswarm.
OR
Since it is an amazing ultimate make the cost reflect that... 600 ultimate just like Werewolf
One more note, Recently i went vamp and i tried bat swarm for 2 days and it just felt cheap, no one could beat me 1v1, and i won 95% of my 1v2s with it. There was no challenge with it, it felt like i was cheating and i dropped vamp. I currently use Viel of Blades or Death Stroke
Pirhana Shadowblade
NB Med Armor Bow / DW V12 AR 18b
17
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll. I can't remember the last time I died from a bat swarm that wasn't from a streak/bat spamming emperor. And even those were not that often.2013
rip decibel6 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll. I can't remember the last time I died from a bat swarm that wasn't from a streak/bat spamming emperor. And even those were not that often.
SO i have to already have oil set up and hope he comes to me? Negate is a sorc skill, turn undead doesnt work when they use immovable and thats not an ability with much utility or even on peoples bars for PVP, Not sure about fire ring?.. is that a templar skill? Dodge roll works unless they stick to you and im talking about encounters when they are against you not people standing in a zerg. When the zerg dies to batswarm i am not one of them, Im talking about when the batswarmer is targetting you.
You can defend this ability all you want but you know the PVP game would be a much better place without it.11 -
Beldorr✭✭✭Piercing Mark allows you to stay tab targeted on them doing damage while they think they are untargetable. They will still be invisible just shoot the box.3 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll.
It's good thing the bat swarming vamps only attack sorcerors standing by an oil kettle ready to be poured. It also helps that the vamps in Cyrodiil stand still and remain visible so that Turn Undead can be effectively used. For all other instances of vamp attacks (apparently rare given your experiences), I guess they will need to hope they have enough stamina in the tank for a roll dodge or two. At least you tried.11 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll. I can't remember the last time I died from a bat swarm that wasn't from a streak/bat spamming emperor. And even those were not that often.
SO i have to already have oil set up and hope he comes to me? Negate is a sorc skill, turn undead doesnt work when they use immovable and thats not an ability with much utility or even on peoples bars for PVP, Not sure about fire ring?.. is that a templar skill? Dodge roll works unless they stick to you and im talking about encounters when they are against you not people standing in a zerg. When the zerg dies to batswarm i am not one of them, Im talking about when the batswarmer is targetting you.
You can defend this ability all you want but you know the PVP game would be a much better place without it.
I'm not a sorc and I use none of those things except oils. Still can't remember dying to a non-emp batswarm.2013
rip decibel1 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Its 6 seconds of safety while dealing alot of aoe damage.
More aoe damage than most single target ultimates.
It is NOT a focus and there is no way to interupt it.
The caster is free to use other abilities at the same time and even block.
The caster also gets to regain life, stamina, and magika while using it.
Unlike other aoe ultimates (Standard)(Viel Blades) you can move batswarm
Invisiibility will not save you and if you run they can stick to you.
Even blocking it will do over 1200 damage to you while you cant block impulse
Fear is the only counter and Immovable takes that away.
Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
1. No safety from anything but new targeting.
2. Some.
3. Its an ultimate with 0 cast time so yeah its uninterruptable.
4. Yes
5. Sure if they can
6. Shifting standard moves too, no?
7. Uh, ok.
8. No.
9. Maybe
10. Low cost yes, rest is just you complaining.
Roll one, try it, come back to us.4 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
That 'always up' part is imo more generic issue caused by possibility to accumulate ultipoints beforehand, artifically and at high rate, usually (but not only) by spamming AoE heals in the middle of a blob, rather than gradually through actual combat.0 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »Piercing Mark allows you to stay tab targeted on them doing damage while they think they are untargetable. They will still be invisible just shoot the box.
Thank you, I will do that0 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Its 6 seconds of safety while dealing alot of aoe damage.
More aoe damage than most single target ultimates.
It is NOT a focus and there is no way to interupt it.
The caster is free to use other abilities at the same time and even block.
The caster also gets to regain life, stamina, and magika while using it.
Unlike other aoe ultimates (Standard)(Viel Blades) you can move batswarm
Invisiibility will not save you and if you run they can stick to you.
Even blocking it will do over 1200 damage to you while you cant block impulse
Fear is the only counter and Immovable takes that away.
Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
1. No safety from anything but new targeting.
2. Some.
3. Its an ultimate with 0 cast time so yeah its uninterruptable.
4. Yes
5. Sure if they can
6. Shifting standard moves too, no?
7. Uh, ok.
8. No.
9. Maybe
10. Low cost yes, rest is just you complaining.
Roll one, try it, come back to us.
Yes, did you read the last part of what i wrote? go check again.
When i say it uninteruptable it means you cant stop the bat swarm once its going, Compare that to soul assault where you actually can do something to stop it.
Shifting standard..... and how many DKS actually use it? If you use that morphe you lose alot of the power of teh standard in the other morph. Bat Swarm should work the same way. You want inviisbility... you can't move it...
I understand that it is an awesome ability if you are the one using it and its fun to farm lots of AP with so i understand trying to defend it. But look past your build and try to think whats actually best for the game.... For everyone 1 person having fun with it, it is ruining the game for 10 people.10 -
Glantris✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll. I can't remember the last time I died from a bat swarm that wasn't from a streak/bat spamming emperor. And even those were not that often.
SO i have to already have oil set up and hope he comes to me? Negate is a sorc skill, turn undead doesnt work when they use immovable and thats not an ability with much utility or even on peoples bars for PVP, Not sure about fire ring?.. is that a templar skill? Dodge roll works unless they stick to you and im talking about encounters when they are against you not people standing in a zerg. When the zerg dies to batswarm i am not one of them, Im talking about when the batswarmer is targetting you.
You can defend this ability all you want but you know the PVP game would be a much better place without it.
honestly, everything that draxys just suggested is a legitimate thing. he's a good player - i can back up his claims. he's trying to help you.
for oils: pop immovable and stick down an oil pot wherever you are behind a wall or a tree or something. takes a few seconds and does a ton of damage to them. you can then let them chase you around and then come back to it after the 4-second reload time.
fire ring is the fire variant DoT morph of impulse, a destruction staff aoe ability. lots of people have been running turn undead lately as well - perhaps just not the people you hang around with. immovable is also unreliable against fear, if that makes you feel any better.
you are able to tell where the player character is by locating the empty middle of the batswarm where there are no bats. sometimes this is difficult due to graphics not rendering correctly or just a high level of visual noise, but this is true for negates and standards as well.
i think that hostile batswarms need a red circle like other unfriendly aoes. the fact that there is no way to discern a friendly from a hostile batswarm is a little unfair.Glantris | VR14 AD Templar | Main Group Heals/Support
Officer of Decibel, Officer of Legend, Sender of Congealed Cheese4 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ifthir_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Its 6 seconds of safety while dealing alot of aoe damage.
More aoe damage than most single target ultimates.
It is NOT a focus and there is no way to interupt it.
The caster is free to use other abilities at the same time and even block.
The caster also gets to regain life, stamina, and magika while using it.
Unlike other aoe ultimates (Standard)(Viel Blades) you can move batswarm
Invisiibility will not save you and if you run they can stick to you.
Even blocking it will do over 1200 damage to you while you cant block impulse
Fear is the only counter and Immovable takes that away.
Very low ultimate cost, Its basically always ready to use and when you kill with it, it makes it available to use again.
1. No safety from anything but new targeting.
2. Some.
3. Its an ultimate with 0 cast time so yeah its uninterruptable.
4. Yes
5. Sure if they can
6. Shifting standard moves too, no?
7. Uh, ok.
8. No.
9. Maybe
10. Low cost yes, rest is just you complaining.
Roll one, try it, come back to us.
As someone who has rolled one, used it, killed many people with it, know its counters, know how to counter those counters, know the ins and outs of everything related to vampire and associated skill tree...
i agree with the OP actually. Since it does damage and is moveable, adding invisibility while also being able to use every other action is quite extreme. extreme to the point its the new fotm meta, or hadnt you noticed...@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin6 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Low cost is one of the perks of being a vampire and having to deal with the fire damage and lack of health regen.
The only time batswarm is in my recap is if it's a zerg, and there could be anything in that recap....stay out of the bats if you're having issues with it.
I'll add though, I really wouldn't care if they changed this morph to be more defensive than offensive....maybe invisibility and a run speed buff, and no damage. It could serve as a nice escape mechanism, especially for classes that don't have one. It could be an option. I can see a vampire turning into bats and flying away to escape. (from an rp standpoint)Edited by Domander on September 3, 2014 10:06AM2 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.3 -
dcincali✭✭✭✭Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Since when is using a skill and game mechanics as the devs have created them exploits?
1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't personally find bat swarm to be an issue, but as a player of the most mobile class in the game if I'm dying to Bat Swarm I've got bigger issues.
I think the real issue with bat swarm isn't the damage or any of that, it is the fact you can use it almost perpetually in a zerg...ult generation is just too high for it.
Personally when I'm actually in a group and someone bat swarms us I just cast grand healing over top of them which completely counters any damage they're doing. Unlike a DK banner, it is easy to just sit in it and out heal it if you don't mind feeding them extra ult by getting hit.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
hasselhoffman✭✭✭To me the streak ultimate generation in conjunction with bat swarm is the only problem that I have with vamps in PvP right now. A sorc can blink a couple of times into a group and have a bat swarm ready to go. It's pretty ridiculous. Other than that I'm fine with vamps and swarms.2
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GwaynLoki✭✭✭
Problem is the time it takes to: Realise there's a Bat Swarm (problem in animation-heavy fights), determine whether it's friendly (or instantly dodge and possibly waste stamina) - mostly by looking at your and surrounding allies' health - and then finally dodge roll. So, yes, better IFF (identification friend or foe) is a must for this ability. And while we are at it, also for DK standard.3 -
grimjim398✭✭✭You lost me at "Bat Swarm." I am frankly just sick of reading about this, no matter how learned the critique. As I am of all the topics that come up here on such a regular basis. I don't trust any of the people who are saying that all these different skills are overpowered. There are so many of them and the complaining is so constant that to my mind the posts become evidence that the game is probably pretty well balanced and that PVP players are simply venting about their pet peeves. All these voices are canceling each other out. Including this one.5 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Do what I do now. Get a bow, apply Camouflage Hunter, wear 5 heavy armour at least with 220+ weapon damage, spell/armour penetration trait and disease proc.
Stealth (ctrl button or use potion) and one shoot the ........ with Snipe.
90% of them going to die on the first hit since they use cloth.
Some might need a second shot or a distant spell to finish them off.Edited by p_tsakirisb16_ESO on September 3, 2014 2:01PM0 -
Beldorr✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
[..]wear 5 heavy armour [..]
Why heavy? Its bonus damage is for melee.
0 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Oils. Negate. Turn undead. Fire ring. Dodge roll. I can't remember the last time I died from a bat swarm that wasn't from a streak/bat spamming emperor. And even those were not that often.
SO i have to already have oil set up and hope he comes to me? Negate is a sorc skill, turn undead doesnt work when they use immovable and thats not an ability with much utility or even on peoples bars for PVP, Not sure about fire ring?.. is that a templar skill? Dodge roll works unless they stick to you and im talking about encounters when they are against you not people standing in a zerg. When the zerg dies to batswarm i am not one of them, Im talking about when the batswarmer is targetting you.
You can defend this ability all you want but you know the PVP game would be a much better place without it.
honestly, everything that draxys just suggested is a legitimate thing. he's a good player - i can back up his claims. he's trying to help you.
for oils: pop immovable and stick down an oil pot wherever you are behind a wall or a tree or something. takes a few seconds and does a ton of damage to them. you can then let them chase you around and then come back to it after the 4-second reload time.
fire ring is the fire variant DoT morph of impulse, a destruction staff aoe ability. lots of people have been running turn undead lately as well - perhaps just not the people you hang around with. immovable is also unreliable against fear, if that makes you feel any better.
you are able to tell where the player character is by locating the empty middle of the batswarm where there are no bats. sometimes this is difficult due to graphics not rendering correctly or just a high level of visual noise, but this is true for negates and standards as well.
i think that hostile batswarms need a red circle like other unfriendly aoes. the fact that there is no way to discern a friendly from a hostile batswarm is a little unfair.
Thank you for the info0 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭*yawn* Another "This skill is killing me, nerf if please" thread...
Actually no, i dont die that often, This skill hits me but i usually get away, But this single skill is the determining factor for who wins and loses most large battles. Have you seen zone chat in Cyrodiil, Everyone and their mom hates this skill because it is ruining PVP.
I dont want things nerf'd, I want things balanced and the best possible PVP. I could and have used this skill, but it seemed unfair when i did, so i dropped it. When i kill someone I want it be legit and meaningful, not from cheap invisible batswarm.1 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Do what I do now. Get a bow, apply Camouflage Hunter, wear 5 heavy armour at least with 220+ weapon damage, spell/armour penetration trait and disease proc.
Stealth (ctrl button or use potion) and one shoot the ........ with Snipe.
90% of them going to die on the first hit since they use cloth.
Some might need a second shot or a distant spell to finish them off.
You cant target somone who uses invisible batswarm...... Trust me, I would love to snipe them for 2000 damage but you need to have a target to do that.2 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Do what I do now. Get a bow, apply Camouflage Hunter, wear 5 heavy armour at least with 220+ weapon damage, spell/armour penetration trait and disease proc.
Stealth (ctrl button or use potion) and one shoot the ........ with Snipe.
90% of them going to die on the first hit since they use cloth.
Some might need a second shot or a distant spell to finish them off.
You cant target somone who uses invisible batswarm...... Trust me, I would love to snipe them for 2000 damage but you need to have a target to do that.
I cannot confirm this yet but I've heard if you tab target the player prior to them going into bats, you are still able to target them through the softlock system.2 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Do what I do now. Get a bow, apply Camouflage Hunter, wear 5 heavy armour at least with 220+ weapon damage, spell/armour penetration trait and disease proc.
Stealth (ctrl button or use potion) and one shoot the ........ with Snipe.
90% of them going to die on the first hit since they use cloth.
Some might need a second shot or a distant spell to finish them off.
You cant target somone who uses invisible batswarm...... Trust me, I would love to snipe them for 2000 damage but you need to have a target to do that.
I cannot confirm this yet but I've heard if you tab target the player prior to them going into bats, you are still able to target them through the softlock system.
Thanks for the info, I will try that0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Beldorrub17_ESO wrote: »Piercing Mark allows you to stay tab targeted on them doing damage while they think they are untargetable. They will still be invisible just shoot the box.
I've heard this before but it doesn't work for me. Perhaps it's a character specific bug. Wouldn't be surprised since cloak works for some and not others. Lots of bugs seemKewljag_66_ESO wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Whatever all the vamp-lovers/haters are saying there is one thing about this skill that's borderline exploit: The Skills you use while in clouding swarm are just as invisible as you.
If this gets fixed i will stop complaining, until then clouding swarm stays as the uninspired bland copy it is. Srsly none of you came up with it, 90% of the people using it have died a lot to it and are just copying it now.
Do what I do now. Get a bow, apply Camouflage Hunter, wear 5 heavy armour at least with 220+ weapon damage, spell/armour penetration trait and disease proc.
Stealth (ctrl button or use potion) and one shoot the ........ with Snipe.
90% of them going to die on the first hit since they use cloth.
Some might need a second shot or a distant spell to finish them off.
You cant target somone who uses invisible batswarm...... Trust me, I would love to snipe them for 2000 damage but you need to have a target to do that.
I cannot confirm this yet but I've heard if you tab target the player prior to them going into bats, you are still able to target them through the softlock system.
Not unless you're a NB with the right mark morph.
1 -
Avidus✭✭✭I have to agree with Clouding swarm being a bit of an issue.
As for moving standards, cant you only do that once? (I'm not a DK forgive me if i'm wrong)
I think the main issue with Clouding Swarm is their ability to play as per normal, but then also have AoE damage and invisibility.
My solution, just as stealth works, should they use an ability out of their invisibility, you should be able to see them.. At least or the time they are using their ability.0
