Introducing Grouping 2.0

TehMagnus · August 2014

Cleaning up a bit the thread since it's a bit old => Getting to the point.

Personally, I've stopped using the grouping system all together since I entered VR areas because I never seemed to find a group and it was faster to just spam the chat when I was in front of a dolmen or a world boss & needed help.

In my opinion the current grouping system has a few flaws that can be summed up by the following statements:
-There is no option to Look for a Group for the content that I want to do.
- I'm up for any grouped content, how do I find a group that needs people?
- I'm entering a dungeon/area, it would be nice to have a group, how do I even know if there are people in here?
- I just took a quest that requires grouping, I would like to find a group for it but I don't see the option to do so.

In order to increase and encourage grouping, you just have to make it easier, more dynamic. I am sure that for many players, it would make the game more enjoyable if grouping wasn't tedious. Some of the systems I'm going to describe will also be deemed invasive by players who don't want any contact with other people so in my opinion, players should have the ability to disable the invasive content I will describe below..

Let's get to the point.

Improvement ideas:

1 - Remove Localized grouping:
- Any player, anywhere in the world should be able to find a group for any dungeon as long as his level is high enough to enter the dungeon. He should also be able to look for groups for lower level dungeons.

2- Add more grouping options:
- It would also be nice for people that level up, to be able to group with people that are leveling up in their area / public dungeon.
- Some quests require grouping (like in Craglorn). There should be an option to create a group for this specific quest.

3 - Add an option tab with check-boxes for the "Looking for Group".
- People Check the boxes for the content they would be interested in before launching the search.
- Instead of adding the player automatically in a group, generate a list of available groups matching his search so he can select the group he wants to join.

4 - Add Class requirements for Group Creators.
- One of the main things that is missing when creating a group is the class. You can select DPS, Tank, Heal but you can't select the class (DK, Sorc, Templar, NB). It would be a good thing to be able to filter by class, it will avoid people getting kicked from a freshly joined group just because they don't fit the desired class thus decreasing the wasted time while looking for a group.

5 - Make the UI more Friendly and clear.
- Make the selection of Veteran/Non Veteran, 4/12 players easier to spot & change.

Dynamic Grouping Ideas

This is the part that I think players should disable/enable at will. If a player enables the option, the game will try to group him with players engaged in the same kind of activities.

Examples:
- I'm entering a dungeon. There is a group of players in such dungeon with an open spot and accepting more players. I automatically get a group invitation from the group that has less players.
- I just took a quest that requires grouping (like some Craglorn quests). If a group of players in the vicinity has a group for that quest and is looking for players, I get an automatic invite.

This would allow, IMO, players to engage in more content with other players, increasing the quality of the game experience!

Any additions, opinions are welcome!

phaneub17_ESO · August 2014

No matter what you suggest, the problem lies with what you're grouping for if it doesn't have any incentives for completing it, then there's no amount of changes you make that will get more players to group up.

At this point in time, grouping for Dungeons is pointless especially with how they push out the crafting system always being better. There are very few niche items that people would want from them, but for the most part they can do solo content and build up the gold to buy them from someone else.

There are skill points, there are skill points everywhere that you don't need a group, you can solo PvP ranks and get skill points, you can body drag through dungeons and grab sky shards.

Not everyone gives a hoot about Achievements, World Bosses, Dolmens, etc. they are all skippable optional content that if you happen to run by while someone else is fighting you tag along, but won't go out of the way to find people for it.

TehMagnus · August 2014

Well the notion that crafted sets > dropped sets is what ZOS states, in fact it's not completely true in my opinion.

Some of the bound sets that you can drop at the Trial's last boss like the Aether set are better than other things you could equip for mage casters. There are also sets that drop in dungeons like the wormcult (I think it's the name) that reduces all the mana costs of your group by 8% (you can't craft anything atm that comes close to that and set will still be very nice after 1.3).

Moreover, your notion of Dungeons = pointless (and being VR12, I agree with you) comes from an end game point of view. The idea behind the described system is mostly for people who aren't VR12 or even VR1 and want to engage in dynamic gameplay with other players without wasting time looking for a group or rage-quitting because they don't find anybody to play with.

IMO, Regardless of what the reasons or the incentives for grouping are, the system currently in place doesn't help or encourage grouping because of the way it works.

GFBStarWars · August 2014

trials grouping is avaible, haven't tryed though.

just have to change the 4 player to 12 and you will have the option to select for aa or hel ra

TehMagnus · August 2014

GFBStarWars wrote: »

trials grouping is avaible, haven't tryed though.

just have to change the 4 player to 12 and you will have the option to select for aa or hel ra

There is an option to change that?

Thanks for pointing it out will edit OP.

TehMagnus · August 2014

This could be helpful for all those people who wanna do Craglorn quests btw

Frenkthevile · August 2014

Give special armors, special tokens and/or random epic loot inside dungeons/delves, and LFG won't be a problem anymore.

Cyberdown · August 2014

would be nice to have a passive group system. The game could see that three people on the same step of a quest are in the same area, put them in a group so long as they stay within range.

Perhaps a system that allows you to flag for grouping then someone else could open their journal and see *6 people lfg* when mousing over that quest and then just hit travel to players.

Im not saying to be anything like GW2 but perhaps craiglorn could be more of this passive questing, you could then have NPC's that are sort of story tellers, and give you a voice over story of the fable of this or that happening rather than the current quest giver giving you a quest then you doing it then talking to the quest giver. This would mean that people could do quests with a group for the storyteller reward, but also just do it with people for fun...

UrQuan · August 2014

I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. The grouping tool in ESO is simply not very good at all. Of course, in addition to the limitations of the tool based on how it's set up, it's also very buggy. I spent one very frustrating evening trying to find a group for Banished Cells with one of my alts, only to have the grouping tool constantly switch my selected dungeon to Fungal Grotto. When I say constantly I mean that it happened about 20 or 30 times. Each time the only way to switch back was to cancel my search and start over.

Caroloces · August 2014

Perhaps a system that allows you to flag for grouping then someone else could open their journal and see *6 people lfg* when mousing over that quest and then just hit travel to players.

I love this. A new tab in the journal that could be enabled or disabled depending upon whether you're in the mood for grouping or not. The active seeker would check off "need for group" on the active quest. Passive recipients who have grouping alerts enabled would receive the alert for particular quest or dungeon, much like the alert you receive when a crafting item is finished the research period. The only thing that bothers is the possible overwhelming number of alerts one might receive. So there needs to be a filter of some type for the passive recipient.

you could then have NPC's that are sort of story tellers, and give you a voice over story of the fable of this or that happening rather than the current quest giver giving you a quest then you doing it then talking to the quest giver. This would mean that people could do quests with a group for the storyteller reward, but also just do it with people for fun...

Yes. One of my pet peeves is listening to quest giver describe quest in that solo mode, and finding other members of my group moving on or wandering about because they skipped through the story quickly. If group leader initiates quest giver, then it would be nice to have a "storyteller" mode in which a voice would speak out to whole group describing the quest. Skip the conversation trees altogether, and don't allow the quest to proceed until the storyteller finishes the description.

Mondrely · August 2014

I like the suggestion about being able to search for a group for a specific quest. I think it would make Craglorn questing a lot easier for those of us that didn't get in there the day it was released.

TehMagnus · August 2014

Frenkthevile wrote: »

Give special armors, special tokens and/or random epic loot inside dungeons/delves, and LFG won't be a problem anymore.

There are special armors that drop randomly in VR dungeons.

I agree though, random epic loot would be a nice thing to have. Then again, when you look at the drop tables of huge games like Lineage II and then you look at the few possibilities this game has to offer, I guess we would need a lot more armors before thinking about implementing random loot drops on mobs...

Rebeccas04nub18_ESO · August 2014

It is hard to find a group at least it is for me. I love doing group dungeons but couldn't find a group with the grouping tool or zone chat or even begging individual players in the city. The last time I did a group dungeon we only had 3 & got wasted over & over. We couldn't find a 4th player & got tired of waiting. I'm in 5 guilds and there usually aren't many players online at the same time or they're different levels from my character. Every time I find a small group in an area I just join in & follow along as long as I can. Coincidence seems to be the only way to find a group as things are now. I love the game and have no intentions of quitting but it would be sooo nice if there was some kind of fix for grouping in the NEAR future.

Mikeriddle1b16_ESO · August 2014

The grouping tools could definitely use improving. The above poster also has a good point that that grouping/ the game system is balanced for a group of exactly 4 players (I appreciate they can be done with less and have done so myself but they are clearly balanced around a specific number), and not 4 to 6 as in many games, further restricts grouping.

In my opinion the biggest problem with finding groups is that whilst levelling the game forces most players to solo the majority of content. Group content is extremely few and far between. Dolmens, whilst fine for what they are, don't really count as they consist of people gathering to solo in the same spot, rather than grouping-up for. Depending upon character build, most public dungeons are easily soloable. I enjoy my solo play, but if there was group content designed from, say, level 10+ which was large enough to enable people to explore and gain xp/ rewards as a steady means of advancement - not sprinting through dungeons for a specific quest and then disbanding - this would encourage people to form bonds and play together.

I'm not at the appropriate VR level yet, partly because the lack of grouping and seeing other players at VR1+ is causing me to log on less often, but making Trials timed and with limited rezzes timed also seems counter-intuitive to encouraging new players to be invited to join up and form bonds with a wide variety of players who just want to group for fun.

TehMagnus · August 2014

Mikeriddle1b16_ESO wrote: »

The grouping tools could definitely use improving. The above poster also has a good point that that grouping/ the game system is balanced for a group of exactly 4 players (I appreciate they can be done with less and have done so myself but they are clearly balanced around a specific number), and not 4 to 6 as in many games, further restricts grouping.

In my opinion the biggest problem with finding groups is that whilst levelling the game forces most players to solo the majority of content. Group content is extremely few and far between. Dolmens, whilst fine for what they are, don't really count as they consist of people gathering to solo in the same spot, rather than grouping-up for. Depending upon character build, most public dungeons are easily soloable. I enjoy my solo play, but if there was group content designed from, say, level 10+ which was large enough to enable people to explore and gain xp/ rewards as a steady means of advancement - not sprinting through dungeons for a specific quest and then disbanding - this would encourage people to form bonds and play together.

I'm not at the appropriate VR level yet, partly because the lack of grouping and seeing other players at VR1+ is causing me to log on less often, but making Trials timed and with limited rezzes timed also seems counter-intuitive to encouraging new players to be invited to join up and form bonds with a wide variety of players who just want to group for fun.

This is true, maybe trials should have an illimted number of lives so people can actually complete them, but once you've spent your 36 lives you don't get a "timed run" and the loot from bosses is not the same as for people who completed it with less than 36 lifes spent.

AshySamurai · September 2014

This is a very interesting thoughts. But!

Instead of adding the player automatically in a group, generate a list of available groups matching his search so he can select the group he wants to join.

I like this idea. And now imagine that you have a very long list of groups with only one person. Or dont have at all. For now if I'm starting to search, I'm automaticly join the group. And if you want to see the list of available groups, you'll see all single users that searching a group right now or won't see anything at all(one person isn't a group, right?). So maybe it's better to see two separate lists: first for those, who wants to join group, and secont for groups, which searching more members. What do you think?

baratron · September 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

1 - Remove Localized grouping:
- Any player, anywhere in the world should be able to find a group for any dungeon as long as his level is high enough to enter the dungeon. He should also be able to look for groups for lower level dungeons.

Absolutely. It's ridiculous that I can't group with my Guild members because we happen to be levelling characters in different alliances. (And yes, I read this thread). It's also ridiculous that I'm not allowed to use the LFG tool for a dungeon that I'm classed as "too high level" for.

TehMagnus · September 2014

baratron wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

1 - Remove Localized grouping:
- Any player, anywhere in the world should be able to find a group for any dungeon as long as his level is high enough to enter the dungeon. He should also be able to look for groups for lower level dungeons.

Absolutely. It's ridiculous that I can't group with my Guild members because we happen to be levelling characters in different alliances. (And yes, I read this thread). It's also ridiculous that I'm not allowed to use the LFG tool for a dungeon that I'm classed as "too high level" for.

Well actually, I didn't mean about the different alliances, i don't think that limit will go off anytime soon, maybe when the game is dying. If you and your buddies wanna play together, just create chars in same alliance! ^^. I don think we will eventually have areas where people of different alliances can meet & play together but not in the near future..

Razzak · October 2014

Bumping this for further discussion. OP has made a great post and it deserves reading by all those that are experiencing grouping problems. Discuss and comment.

Koensol · October 2014

Most annoying thing about the GF imo is that you cannot queue for multiple dungeons. And the fact simply no one uses it...

TehMagnus · October 2014

No one uses it because it sucks. If you could find groups quickly and easily that match the content you want to play or if you had a list of groups you can join with the content they want to do, then things would go much smoother...