The Dawn's Wrath skill line of the Templar should be strongly considered:

1. Subpar Ultimate in terms of UP-cost compared to many other classes ultimates cost (ultimates that are "as strong" as Nova)
2. Subpar DD+Dot lasting amazing 3 seconds.. not 5, not 10, not 15
3. Subpar PBAE-DD with a 50 weapon/magic power (ae-) buff for the next attack (not usable with channeled skills) --> problem: AE base dmg, non-usability with other "important" channeled templar skills
4. DD-healing debuff (4x% less healing) --> good, but slow animation -> you loose time
5. Caster-Debuff that is -imo-BY FAR too expensive (as many templar skills are) and less effective compared to so many other forms of anti-magic skills (i.e. magic reflecting skills from other classes) - this rocks in PvE (caster bosses) but is very situational in pvp (seldomly used)
6. Ecplipse - Good in PvE but more group-oriented
7. Blinding Light - Very situational / defensive "50% disorient-shield" vs. attackers. A worse skill than the (actually bugged) mage AE-disorient, which is actually beeing spammed in PvP.

Weakest skill line is definitely Werewolf. Has no purpose other than rp and gobble on dead bodies for fun.

Daedric Summoning, no doubt, when it comes to class skills lines. It's horrible all around at VR12. Half the skills are toggles eating 2 skills slots...and they aren't even good to begin with. The ulti was okay, but they nerfed it. The damage absorbing shield is pretty useful stacked with other ones, but that's about it.

My Templars Dawn's Wrath is indeed a bit mediocre dps compare to other classes caster skills. I can agree on that. But there's still a few nice abilities in there, loads of utility and some more skills with situational use (or at least in PvP). I wouldn't call it "weakest".

AlexDougherty wrote: »

On it's own perhaps, but use sun's fire (morphed to Vampire's bane) and solar flare with the spell resistance passive, and it helps a lot.
(...)but Dawn's Wrath gives you and edge in longer fights. Seriously you do long term damage with Vampire's Bane, and get some extra spell resistance too. And Solar flare gives you some wham against undead and daedra at dolmen's.

Hello,
a) even without using Dawn's wrath-abilities my spell resistance is at its soft cap very easily (!), so that is no point for me. Only the +2 Ultimates (on skill activation) passive is a point but there are other ways to fastly reggen your ultimates..!
If you compare Vampire's Bane with many other classes DDs / DoTs you'll notice many aspects, for example that other classes DDs work much better with their passives, while Templars passives are more focused on light-dmg, not fire-dmg!

Secondly, the dmg itself sucks, the duration of the dot is laughable (just for beeing a dot) AND the limitation on 3 targets... This skill could (!) be the missing templar AoE CC, but it ain't! Again, in terms of "balance" this skill needs 50-100% more dmg, to be seen "in line" with many, many other DD skills (+their relative passives). I leveled other skills (real DoTs) and I see the point of DoTs in PvP that interrupt "healing mechanics" of other classes, but only 3 seconds duration is a bad joke.

For Solar Flare:
Solar Flare's base dmg is still so crappy, that It often isn't worth combining it with any other spammable AE because spamming the other AE skill alone would do more damage. So, it stays situational -> to be used with some non-channeled Ultimates and skills
Best combinations for Solar Flare should be discussed in a separate thread

The undoubted skills are pretty terrible with the exception of Inner fire.

Werewolf for certain as others said. And while they are looking at changes, it's nice... they need to really consider what people are asking for (ability to toggle it whether it be like Overload or an even better idea imo would be not making it an Ultimate at all and instead an ability you can toggle on which changes the bar (retaining that one ability so you can toggle it back off if needed or just press some sort of bound key). Also human form needs better & more passives.

Now don't get me wrong... I can do some damage on my WW char, the heavy attacks are pretty nice but for it being an ultimate it's not that strong at all -- it just looks cool at the moment.

OP here. I feel like if we're going into class-specific skill lines I'll add to some of what has been said:
most useless) Werewolves
Second useless) Sorc Daedric summoning
Third useless) NB siphoning tree.

(But my third option is biased, I'm actually not too sure about it being all that weak, maybe I'm just using the wrong stuff)

ThatRedguardGuy wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

OP here. I feel like if we're going into class-specific skill lines I'll add to some of what has been said:
most useless) Werewolves
Second useless) Sorc Daedric summoning
Third useless) NB siphoning tree.

(But my third option is biased, I'm actually not too sure about it being all that weak, maybe I'm just using the wrong stuff)

Nightblade siphoning skill line is arguably the strongest in the game at the moment. Just by using funnel health and keeping crippling grasp up with a resto staff, it's easy to maintain over 1K DPS without pots, ultimate, or execute. Not to mention siphoning attacks which allows decent nightblades to solo pretty much anything in PvE.

Between funnel heal and siphoning spirit from the restro skill line, I can top 800dps and over 1k hps in trials without blinking.

Weakest... hmmm...
Light armour, dest / reso staff / vampire.

You have no challenge.
It is the weakest link. Goodbye!

UrQuan wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Subpar DD+Dot lasting amazing 3 seconds.. not 5, not 10, not 15

Wait, you're calling Sun Fire & it's morphs subpar? You must not have used it in PVE. Use the Reflective Light morph and you can use it as your only attack ability to solo virtually all non-group dungeon/world boss content with ease (at least, you can pre-VR, my highest level Templar is in the 40s so I can't say what it's like in Veteran content). As a DD it may be subpar. As a DoT it may be subpar. As a CC it may be subpar. The fact that it's all 3 of those, however, makes it pretty much an easy button for slaughtering mobs (and groups of mobs up to 3 at a time) before they are able to hit you with much of anything.

When I'm playing solo PVE with one of my Templar alts I almost never need to use any of my healing abilities because thanks to Reflective Light I almost never end up in a situation where I'm in any danger of being killed. Seriously, for PVE I find the Templar to be the easiest class to play, and it's entirely because of Reflective Light.

SHHH!!! Don't tell the secrets man!!

Bitting Jabs is OP. Sorcerers are OP. DK's are OP. NB's are OP.

Unfortunately, in Craglorn/PVP, Reflective Light doesn't perform well most of the time.

UrQuan wrote: »

When I'm playing solo PVE with one of my Templar alts I almost never need to use any of my healing abilities because thanks to Reflective Light I almost never end up in a situation where I'm in any danger of being killed. Seriously, for PVE I find the Templar to be the easiest class to play, and it's entirely because of Reflective Light.

Doesn't that go a tad slow? How much dam is yours doing? (I don't run a high magicka build on my Temp)

PBpsy wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

OP here. I feel like if we're going into class-specific skill lines I'll add to some of what has been said:
most useless) Werewolves
Second useless) Sorc Daedric summoning
Third useless) NB siphoning tree.

(But my third option is biased, I'm actually not too sure about it being all that weak, maybe I'm just using the wrong stuff)

That is the funniest thing I heard in a while.
...
Siphoning is the NB best skill line and puts to shame most skill lines in the game..

Oh?

Nihili wrote: »

Oh I never knew. Huh, then I retract what I said :P

I've already covered this