Fix Bugs Before Adding Content

ShadoPanauin · August 2014

Many people might already be thinking this:

SHOULD-BE PRIORITY LIST OF ZOS:
1. Bugs
2. More Bugs
3. Content

The bugs are everywhere. Take a look at Cyrodiil, I can guarantee you'll see at least 20 bugs that have been around for a while and still haven't been fixed.

List of Some Annoying/Deadly Bugs In Cyrodiil:

1. Infinite Magicka via Harness Magicka/other shields stacking (near invincible because harness magicka, even though it should only intake spells for conversion to magicka, it intakes every type of damage and converts it)

EXAMPLE: 3000 point shield (reapplied many times) = 1500 extra mp per 3k shield.

2. ESO Logic: Repair an inner postern, the thing is ready to go, forgot to put hinges on the door to exit. (the door bug, annoying and sometimes deadly)

3. Pressing E to use something, only pointlessly turning towards it and nothing happening. (annoying and sometimes deadly)

4. Don't even get me started on near-potato server lag. (annoying and deadly)

5. Infinite CCs (extremely annoying and deadly)

6. Locked up bar swapping (annoying and deadly)

7. Clouding Swarm makes you invisible to others, right? Before it ends, switch bars. When it ends, you're still invisible but only on your screen and on a certain bar, making it hard to keep track of yourself. (annoying)

8. Crashes.. oh the crashes (no)

If I missed anything, don't hesitate to post them here, but the main purpose of this thread is:

These bugs have been around forever. We are going to see even more come 1.4 - please, fix the bugs before you release new content, at this rate, you fix 20, 50 more appear from the depths of Oblivion.

EDIT: I don't play PvE much, so I probably missed quite a few in that category.

jrgray93 · August 2014

They could just add a leaderboard and time how long it takes people to get through the door and it would probably be more interesting content than the new Upper Craglorn stuff.

SirAndy · August 2014

You do realize that ESO has more than just one programmer on their payroll, yes?

I've been in software development for a long time. You never have your whole department work on the same thing. It doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way.

You always have groups or teams working on different aspects of the project(s).
Your black and white picture does not reflect the reality of development.

The developers working on new content are not the developers working on bug fixes and vice versa.
;-)

dharbert · August 2014

9. Mid-Animation freezes (also deadly and annoying)

jrgray93 · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

You do realize that ESO has more than just one programmer on their payroll, yes?

I've been in software development for a long time. You never have your whole department work on the same thing. It doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way.

You always have groups or teams working on different aspects of the project(s).
Your black and white picture does not reflect the reality of development.

The developers working on new content are not the developers working on bug fixes and vice versa.
;-)

I usually completely agree with this sentiment. Particularly when people get upset about new merch for the game coming out while the game still has bugs. You know, because the software engineers are also the designers of the guar plush.

But as every update has shown us, new content for ESO typically comes with a handful of huge game-breaking bugs, and the fact that so many of these huge bugs have been present since beta has a lot of people worried.

SirAndy · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

But as every update has shown us, new content for ESO typically comes with a handful of huge game-breaking bugs, and the fact that so many of these huge bugs have been present since beta has a lot of people worried.

I agree, it seems the QA department at ZOS has been on an extended spring break vacation in Cancún. Someone should give them a call and ask them to come back ...

jrgray93 · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

But as every update has shown us, new content for ESO typically comes with a handful of huge game-breaking bugs, and the fact that so many of these huge bugs have been present since beta has a lot of people worried.

I agree, it seems the QA department at ZOS has been on an extended spring break vacation in Cancún. Someone should give them a call and ask them to come back ...

They've been back for weeks. They just can't open the door to the place where they keep their computers.

LonePirate · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

But as every update has shown us, new content for ESO typically comes with a handful of huge game-breaking bugs, and the fact that so many of these huge bugs have been present since beta has a lot of people worried.

I agree, it seems the QA department at ZOS has been on an extended spring break vacation in Cancún. Someone should give them a call and ask them to come back ...

They've been back for weeks. They just can't open the door to the place where they keep their computers.

Now that's funny!

The issue seems to be that ZOS needs to form a project team that specifically works on bug fixes in addition to the regular (minuscule) team that is supposedly 100% dedicated to bug fixes.

Maybe I am way off base here but it seems like there are project teams for each update based on the simultaneous development of many different projects like what we saw during the QuakeCon presentation. Once 1.4 is released, perhaps that project team will become a bug fixing team for 1.5. That release certainly needs something added to it because if it turns out to be another unneeded Veteran dungeon (City of Ash) and nothing else of substance, then there will be rioting in these forums and plenty of lost subs as it will be released about the time the 6 month subscribers like myself are due to renew.

purple-magicb16_ESO · August 2014

Why do they have to choose? These are two completely different things. If they took this approach, they would very rarely add new content as new content invariably introduces more bugs, any programmer will tell you this. Its inevitable. Therefore they have some programmers that work on bug fixing and some that develop new content. Its really not an either or situation and waiting to add new content won't get the bugs fixed any faster or prevent new ones in the future.

RoyMallis · August 2014

I think what OP wants is for ZOS to get ahead of the bug curve. Sure there may be a dedicated team for the current bugs in game and they are chugging away at them, but then all of a sudden this pile gunk they're sorting through gets bigger when the new content comes out. It would be best if they could take care of, at the very least, the bugs that effect the widest variety of game play and would undoubtedly carry over to affect even the new content.

dharbert · August 2014

It's simple, really. Don't add more content, with more bugs, until you get the bugs from the previous content fixed.

If automobile manufacturers did this, they would go out of business. You don't come out with the next model year vehicle, based off the previous model year, before getting all the known problems worked out.

And guess what happens when a "bug" does get by the auto industry? Massive recalls and millions or even billions of dollars lost.

SirAndy · August 2014

dharbert wrote: »

It's simple, really. Don't add more content, with more bugs, until you get the bugs from the previous content fixed.

If automobile manufacturers did this, they would go out of business. You don't come out with the next model year vehicle, based off the previous model year, before getting all the known problems worked out.

And you honestly believe that a car company will halt *any* other development and put *every* worker on the task of fixing a defect until it's fixed and rolled out to their customers?

Are you serial?

grimjim398 · August 2014

Very silly idea. A hospital should stop treating new patients until they correct all the mistakes they've made with the patients they already have?

dharbert · August 2014

grimjim398 wrote: »

Very silly idea. A hospital should stop treating new patients until they correct all the mistakes they've made with the patients they already have?

So, you think it's ok for Zenimax to just keep cranking out new content, knowing full well that there are bugs present that have been there since beta?

Just keep pushing content out the door without regard to fixing any knows bugs?

At the very least, the same bugs are going to be present in the new content. In reality, the new content will probably make those same bugs even worse, or more than likely, present new ones.

Fix your game first.

dharbert · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

It's simple, really. Don't add more content, with more bugs, until you get the bugs from the previous content fixed.

If automobile manufacturers did this, they would go out of business. You don't come out with the next model year vehicle, based off the previous model year, before getting all the known problems worked out.

And you honestly believe that a car company will halt *any* other development and put *every* worker on the task of fixing a defect until it's fixed and rolled out to their customers?

Are you serial?

Yes, that's exactly what should happen, unless they want to go out of business.

Let's say a car company creates a vehicle that has known engine problems, yet they keep cranking out that same vehicle year after year.

Eventually everyone is going to stop buying it because every car they turn out has engine problems that they never bother to fix.

By your logic, it's perfectly fine for Zenimax to keep releasing content knowing full well that there are several well-known bugs that they haven't been able to fix and that have been present since launch, and are only getting worse with every new content release.

SirAndy · August 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly what should happen , unless if they want to go out of business.

There, fixed it for 'ya!

dharbert · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly what should happen , unless if they want to go out of business.

There, fixed it for 'ya!

The fanboy is strong with this one.....

SirAndy · August 2014

dharbert wrote: »

The fanboy is strong with this one.....

I assume this is supposed to be a insult of sorts?

By my logic, ZOS should should have plenty of development resources dedicated to fixing bugs while also, in parallel, have teams continue to work on new content.

But what do i know, i only run a software development department ...
;-)

dharbert · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

By my logic, ZOS should should have plenty of development resources dedicated to fixing bugs while also, in parallel, have teams continue to work on new content.
;-)

They should.......but apparently, they don't.

Elsonso · August 2014

dharbert wrote: »

It's simple, really. Don't add more content, with more bugs, until you get the bugs from the previous content fixed.

If automobile manufacturers did this, they would go out of business.

The fact that Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors are still selling cars will be considered as testimony that your statement is wrong.

However, it is silly to compare an automobile with a computer game.

The fact of the matter, and you can choose to accept this or not, is that all commercial software of any significant complexity will be delivered to the customer with defects, known and unknown. Many of these defects will be noticed by customers. Some will be fixed. Some will never be fixed. Some will never even be discovered by the customer.

dharbert wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS should should have plenty of development resources dedicated to fixing bugs while also, in parallel, have teams continue to work on new content.

They should.......but apparently, they don't.

I disagree.

The ESO development team is very diverse. They can release new stuff before fixes because the people creating the new content are not the people working on the defects. It would be silly for the PvP team to drop everything and start working on a memory leak. It would be silly for the PvE combat team to try to discover why people get loading errors.

The people working on artwork, models, world design, and sound recording, as well as the dialog writers, all of whom contributed a lot of effort to the new areas in Update 4, are not working on balancing Werewolves. This allows them to have people working on the WW balancing stuff they posted earlier and also have people working on upper Craglorn.