Should there be paid Character race changes

madangrypally · August 2014

Yes

From reading this most are against the idea due to it being a Real Life money service. I think it would be great if it was an in-game quest or gold purchasable feature, but nearly all MMOs have it only on the service shops. FF AAR had a great system that they gave everyone a free race/customization change as they new people would run into build issues.

I do not care what form it comes in personally. Cash, in-game cost, or in-game content.

Spangla · August 2014

Yes

Once you hit v12 - 1 Chance to change race/class/gender everything. Then when dumner DK's make up 90% of the population perhaps we will finally get some balance:)

Xeres14 · August 2014

Yes

See this is where I just don't understand. Hear me out:

Let's say I want to change my character's race. Annnd let's say I felt like paying RL money for it. I'm not sure how my want to change the race of my character affects anyone else other than me.

Or, more plainly, why do you care if I change my character's race? It's not your $14.99 / month.

Oh and before you mention the Racial traits, are you telling me that every single Dunmer DK you run into beats you? I doubt it.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

No

Xeres14 wrote: »

See this is where I just don't understand. Hear me out:

Let's say I want to change my character's race. Annnd let's say I felt like paying RL money for it. I'm not sure how my want to change the race of my character affects anyone else other than me.

Or, more plainly, why do you care if I change my character's race? It's not your $14.99 / month.

Oh and before you mention the Racial traits, are you telling me that every single Dunmer DK you run into beats you? I doubt it.

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Yes

I keep seeing this thrown around, everyone will be Dunmer since they are better! And you should have to work for it like i did! If Dunmer are better, that is your reason everyone would want to be one, and i wasn't one, and we are the same level, doesn't that actually mean i worked harder then you did for what i have? So i have already worked harder and put in more work. So stuff the you should have to work hard like i did! Uh no you dunmer scum took the easy road!

Any who i think most people in this thread know nothing anyone writes here is going to change anyones minds. But it is fun seeing some of the reasons people come up with.

And lore friendly? I can think of at least two instances that aren't vision where i am given something that changes my race and sex. But since i don't care about the stats anyway I'm fine with a purely cosmetic change.

Bulldog1205 · August 2014

Yes

So there are kind of two different questions here. Should there be race changes period, and if so, should it be paid. I'd be interested to see results to a poll that was just about race changes and ignoring the paid part. I really don't care how it comes. I'd personally prefer it be a long quest rather than paid, or cost a lot of gold in the game, but I do think it should be an option somehow.

ShadoPanauin · August 2014

Yes

I went nord DK, wishing I went dark elf, so yes. Extra money for ZOS = longer game life.

EDIT: This will not affect anyone else's game experience! It would only affect your own!

Aeratus · August 2014

Yes

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

So there are kind of two different questions here. Should there be race changes period, and if so, should it be paid.

There was a poll earlier (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117450/race-change-service-how-much-money-do-you-find-acceptable/p1)

In that poll,
16% voted for a free race change,
31% voted for a paid race change, and
35% voted against race change of any kind.

So if this poll were better worded, I would suspect that it would reflect that at least half of the players would find some type of race change to be acceptable.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

No

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

I went nord DK, wishing I went dark elf, so yes. Extra money for ZOS = longer game life.

EDIT: This will not affect anyone else's game experience! It would only affect your own!

PVP for one... and the economy since you'll have extra time to farm loot instead of remaking a character for the race change... this isn't Skyrim.

ravenhartb14_ESO · August 2014

No

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

You know who wrote that second quote Raven? You did 5 days ago. It is odd that complete swing you seem to have made in 5 days.

I didn't swing at all, but thanks for twisting my words. For those unaware, the posts in question were a completely different topic.

I wasn't posting "no" for the sake of saying "no". I was posting my choice for no because it goes against what MMO's have done for the past 20 years. If you want to make a change, the opportunity is there just like in every other game. Make another character, problem solved.

What's that you say? You don't want to play the game with another character? Well, what's the point then? But then again, that's my opinion.

Erock25 · August 2014

Yes

ravenhartb14_ESO wrote: »

What's that you say? You don't want to play the game with another character? Well, what's the point then? But then again, that's my opinion.

Because you want to level up all of the different classes.

Daethz · August 2014

No

Sure, mabye.
But it should be the very LAST thing on ZOS's list of importance.
Before paid race or name changes I want to see brotherhood/theif guild.
Mounted combat and races, complete combat overhaul, several new zones, player housing, pretty much everything you could think of.

Rurdrick · August 2014

No

I don't believe that race changes should be in this game. You have the whole process of choosing your class, race, appearance, and name. Somewhere through that process you should probably realize that this doesn't feel right to you. Besides, for role-playing, why would the Breton who defeated Molag Bal suddenly be seen as an argonian? I do however, support class change as I see the changing of someone's magic to be very possible. Especially if you can change where your skill points go.

ravenhartb14_ESO · August 2014

No

Erock25 wrote: »

Because you want to level up all of the different classes.

Good thing we have 8 character slots. You can level each class twice!

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Yes

ravenhartb14_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

You know who wrote that second quote Raven? You did 5 days ago. It is odd that complete swing you seem to have made in 5 days.

I didn't swing at all, but thanks for twisting my words. For those unaware, the posts in question were a completely different topic.

I wasn't posting "no" for the sake of saying "no". I was posting my choice for no because it goes against what MMO's have done for the past 20 years. If you want to make a change, the opportunity is there just like in every other game. Make another character, problem solved.

What's that you say? You don't want to play the game with another character? Well, what's the point then? But then again, that's my opinion.

Where do you keep getting this it goes against what mmos have done for the last 20 years? The most popular mmo of all time offers this service. That should be enough but if it isn't, there are others that offer this service.

And since you keep bringing it up as well, why are the 8 character slots enough for us, but not rnough for you to carry your extra inventory. What the thread i took the quote from was about.

Seeing your answer and replies i have a hard time looking at this and not saying it is a case of he agrees with one. More inventory space so obviously he shouldnt have to use his 8 characters for that and people shouldn't come in and vote no just to vote no.

You don't agree with race changes so it is ok that someone would have to use their 8 character slots for it, and go ahead and vote no for no real reason. I say no real reason because you keep saying this is what mmos have done for the past 20 years, when it actually isn't.

Mondo · August 2014

Yes

Dear Zeni,

Payed Service = Abo + Extra Cash
No Payed Service = No Cash and loosing Abos

Simple

heyguyslol · August 2014

Yes

I would prefer to be able to choose a race and passives separately. I choose a brenton for the passives but I would prefer the look of another race.

I would also like to be a Kaji for the passives on one of my other chars but I can't stand looking like a cat.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

No

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

Yeah no, lets just not have that thing that comes standard with a triple A MMO.

And which MMOs would they be that allow race changes?

AlexDougherty · August 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

Yeah no, lets just not have that thing that comes standard with a triple A MMO.

And which MMOs would they be that allow race changes?

Swtor does, and I think WOW, but it isn't a standard thing, and the Elder Scrolls does have lore against it.

Personally I feel that as long as it happens outside of the game, ie nobody is pretending it's part of the world set-up, then it's ok. After all if you don't see it in the game, you probably won't notice it.

Xeres14 · August 2014

Yes

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Yes

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

Wait! What if he were an Altimer too! And say he was in an all Altimer trial group! And they took you instead of him because your dps was higher! You have now official destroyed his playing experience and crippled his gaming! And you didn't have to do anything for it! You just paid some money and destroyed his gaming! Nice going you dirty Altimer changling.

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

No

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

It's a slippery slope.

You change your race, but why shouldn't people be allowed to pay to change their class? Or pay real money to respec?

And I have to ask, even though this is a hypothetical: what possible reason could you have for wanting to change your race at VR2? How did you make it that far in the game without realizing that you wanted a character of a different race?

Xeres14 · August 2014

Yes

Well TBH yeah if you want to change your name, race, gender or respec for RL money then I'm fine with it. I'll draw the line with class only because some classes are easier to level than others. So you AOE your way to VR12 then change your class to a templar or something? IMO that's a bad idea. But as far as race I don't think there's that big an advantage from one to another. So I may get more magicka regen. Not a game breaker IMO.

And honestly, I don't know why I'd change my race at VR2. Maybe I don't like how DC seems to be attacking everyone. Or maybe I just like how Altmers look better. But If I'm willing to pay $20 for whatever good or ridiculous reason, I think I should be able to.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Yes

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

It's a slippery slope.

You change your race, but why shouldn't people be allowed to pay to change their class? Or pay real money to respec?

And I have to ask, even though this is a hypothetical: what possible reason could you have for wanting to change your race at VR2? How did you make it that far in the game without realizing that you wanted a character of a different race?

My basic answer to that is boredom. I honestly get tired of looking at the same thing all the time. Im not a quick leveler it can take me several months to level and get to end game. And as an mmo player i plan on playing my character for years. I just get tired of looking at them. I don't want to level another templar just so i can make my female breton templar in to a male argonian templar. And i actually wont.

And as stupid as it may sound to some people sooner or later ill run out of classes to level and ill be bored enough with the way my characters looks and ill quit playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a threat or saying if you don't change this the game will collapse, that is silly. Im just saying for me personally sooner or later this will probably cause me an issue. But like i said, it takes me forever to level, so who knows!

R1ckyDaMan · August 2014

No

If there was a way in game, a quest or something for it then yeah but paying for it, no no pay walls. I pay a sub I do not expect to have to pay extra for things.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

No

AlexDougherty wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

Yeah no, lets just not have that thing that comes standard with a triple A MMO.

And which MMOs would they be that allow race changes?

Swtor does, and I think WOW, but it isn't a standard thing, and the Elder Scrolls does have lore against it.

I knew WOW does, not surprised to hear TOR does, I guess that's where the "standard with triple A" comment came from: WOW does it so it's the 'standard.

LMAO.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

No

Xeres14 wrote: »

It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

Race determines faction (unless you have the Explorer's Pack), faction determines a hell of a lot of your PVP experience: allowing race changes means opening the game up to large-scale PVP balance changes literally overnight.

Had you even paused to consider the known-on effects like that, and others, such a feature would open up?

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

No

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

It's a slippery slope.

You change your race, but why shouldn't people be allowed to pay to change their class? Or pay real money to respec?

And I have to ask, even though this is a hypothetical: what possible reason could you have for wanting to change your race at VR2? How did you make it that far in the game without realizing that you wanted a character of a different race?

My basic answer to that is boredom. I honestly get tired of looking at the same thing all the time. Im not a quick leveler it can take me several months to level and get to end game. And as an mmo player i plan on playing my character for years. I just get tired of looking at them. I don't want to level another templar just so i can make my female breton templar in to a male argonian templar. And i actually wont.

And as stupid as it may sound to some people sooner or later ill run out of classes to level and ill be bored enough with the way my characters looks and ill quit playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a threat or saying if you don't change this the game will collapse, that is silly. Im just saying for me personally sooner or later this will probably cause me an issue. But like i said, it takes me forever to level, so who knows!

That's really not a good enough reason.

I might get bored with playing a Nightblade for a bit. Should I be allowed to pay a bit of money to change to a Dragonknight, because I hear they're better? Or I'd rather not be dual-wielding. Should I be allowed to pay real money to avoid the gold cost of a respec?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Yes

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

It's a slippery slope.

You change your race, but why shouldn't people be allowed to pay to change their class? Or pay real money to respec?

And I have to ask, even though this is a hypothetical: what possible reason could you have for wanting to change your race at VR2? How did you make it that far in the game without realizing that you wanted a character of a different race?

My basic answer to that is boredom. I honestly get tired of looking at the same thing all the time. Im not a quick leveler it can take me several months to level and get to end game. And as an mmo player i plan on playing my character for years. I just get tired of looking at them. I don't want to level another templar just so i can make my female breton templar in to a male argonian templar. And i actually wont.

And as stupid as it may sound to some people sooner or later ill run out of classes to level and ill be bored enough with the way my characters looks and ill quit playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a threat or saying if you don't change this the game will collapse, that is silly. Im just saying for me personally sooner or later this will probably cause me an issue. But like i said, it takes me forever to level, so who knows!

That's really not a good enough reason.

For you.

It is actually a good enough reason for me.

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

No

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xeres14 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Pay to win" isn't meant literally; it's meant in terms of paying real money to gain power over what you had and could normally have done with that character in-game from where he is now. And yes, it DOES affect me to allow you to pay real money to avoid spending time earning something, that then lets you have a stronger character as you can then go do other profitable activities instead of dealing with the consequence of your choice. And guess what? The game world is bigger than just your specific "$14.99 / month" as you mention it. There are 750,000 other "$14.99 / month" people you're asking to compromise on their game experience for you to artificially get something without playing to earn it in-game.

So wait, so let's take my highest level character - a VR2 Redguard Nightblade. Let's say I wanted to make him an Altimer and I'm willing to pay whatever it costs to do it (I'll make up a number, $20). All I'd really want is to stay VR2 and just change my race. That's it and I think that was the original question. IMO there's nothing about that which is compromising your gaming experience. And I sure did earn the XP to get up to VR2. Maybe my NB would be stronger as an Altimer. I honestly don't even know. But I don't think it would be such an improvement that it's that big a deal.

And every $14.99 / month can choose to pay money to change their race or not. As it is now, there is no choice. But I am not advocating a gain in levels at all. It's a race change and remain at your current level and that's it.

It's a slippery slope.

You change your race, but why shouldn't people be allowed to pay to change their class? Or pay real money to respec?

And I have to ask, even though this is a hypothetical: what possible reason could you have for wanting to change your race at VR2? How did you make it that far in the game without realizing that you wanted a character of a different race?

My basic answer to that is boredom. I honestly get tired of looking at the same thing all the time. Im not a quick leveler it can take me several months to level and get to end game. And as an mmo player i plan on playing my character for years. I just get tired of looking at them. I don't want to level another templar just so i can make my female breton templar in to a male argonian templar. And i actually wont.

And as stupid as it may sound to some people sooner or later ill run out of classes to level and ill be bored enough with the way my characters looks and ill quit playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a threat or saying if you don't change this the game will collapse, that is silly. Im just saying for me personally sooner or later this will probably cause me an issue. But like i said, it takes me forever to level, so who knows!

That's really not a good enough reason.

For you.

It is actually a good enough reason for me.

I appreciate that you believe that your own personal boredom is a good enough reason for ZO to provide a paid service that could greatly throw off game balance if taken to its inevitable conclusion, but it isn't good enough for most people (as this poll has clearly shown).