1.4 Shafts Solo Players !

LonePirate · August 2014

Hey @magnusnet in this game, MMO players and solo players are largely the same group of people. You seem to be using MMO players as a stand-in for players who only group with other people when playing. The number of people in this game who group up with three other players to complete all content is pretty much zero.

Tapio75 · August 2014

I would also like to see private option in current soloable instances because.. Umm, they are clearly designed to be soloed and other people just plain ruin my solo or group RP i/we would like to do while progressing the game.

eliisra · August 2014

MMOs should come with both solo, group and raid content. There's really no excuse for this. They're completely neglecting solo content, two updates in a row, it's a shame.

I'm saying this as a frequent grouper and raider, that occasionally prefers playing by myself.

Besides solo content/instances is the cheapest thing to develop and create. Very much doubt a few solo quest-lines in Craglorn, would have any actual impact on ZoS budget. Would only make hundreds of thousands of players happy.

Think this is more about ZoS being stuck in some design vision when it comes to adventure zones. Wish they applied common sense instead. If you want a new PvE zone to have active landscapes, you need solo content. There's no way around it in a commercial MMO.

Lionxoft · August 2014

eliisra wrote: »

MMOs should come with both solo, group and raid content. There's really no excuse for this. They're completely neglecting solo content, two updates in a row, it's a shame.

4 updates in a row.

Lionxoft · August 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge .

Vet dungeons, anomalies and parts of trials are being solo'd as we speak.

Laura · August 2014

>plays massive multiplayer games designed for groups

>wonders why there isn't a focus on solo content

TehMagnus · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Hey @magnusnet in this game, MMO players and solo players are largely the same group of people.

No, they aren't.

LonePirate wrote: »

You seem to be using MMO players as a stand-in for players who only group with other people when playing. The number of people in this game who group up with three other players to complete all content is pretty much zero.

Nope again, real MMO players, people who play them for years and don't just complete the main story and quit, are people who do play in groups once they hit max level. The number of people in this game who group up with three other players to complete all content is pretty much zero because the grouping tool sucks badly, because grouping has issues (which ZOS is fixing). And a LOT of people just grinded from 1-50 and then some more in craglorn just to actually get to a point where they could group for challenging content.

The only real problem we have here as in any MMO that is made from an RPG game, is that people just want the MMO to be like the solo RPG games and fail to understand they are not the target audience of the game.

You should be happy though, there will be a TES 6, I highly doubt there will be a Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic 3 after SWTOR's fiasco and it's a shame since SWKTOR 1 and 2 where awesome...

Slurg · August 2014

I'm a solo player who likes playing with others on occasion but I prefer just playing in the same instance with whoever is around over formal grouping. I'm often only able to play for an hour at a time maybe two and being forced to spend half that time looking for a group of x members in order to complete certain content is not fun. Especially when the other group members are just going to get mad that I have to leave at a certain time due to real life obligations. So I don't group very often because I'm here to have fun not perform administrative tasks.

I'm spending more time now with my lowbie alts from different classes enjoying the content the way I like to play it while learning new skills. I feel that's a more constructive way to pass the time while waiting for new solo veteran content than fighting with a bunch of angry people on the forum.

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Group content belongs into an MMO to not have it would be pretty bad by ZO.

SWTOR on release was pretty well done, so was WOW. You had zones and at these zones you have regular quests for solo gamers, group / elite quests for smaller groups and world bosses for 20 or more people. It creates a whole new atmosphere for players and a rock solid community to work with in future.

The current system at WOW but also ESO is doomed as you do everything solo and only the raids require a group. Of course people will then get angry if in every patch only raid content is added, but the problem isn't that content its the lack of it pre VR 12 and its alternative on VR 14.

Quoted for truth. Games nowadays never even get to foster much of a community because 99% of the content is soloable easily, and no one really needs eachother but for competitive pvp and raids.

That's why VR zones where HARD, to make you group. Problem IMO is and always has been that grouping isn't optimized yet in the game . ZOS mistake was to lower the difficulty instead of fixing grouping

See this right here is the real problem. NO, it was NOT hard actually. It was exactly where it needed to be. I enjoyed the heck out of it too, way more that the 1-50 stuff. Let alone vet dungeons and Trials which were very nice for a raider like me.

Yet as usual, there is always the din of voices clammoring that this or that is "too hard" - players that group as well as solo players do this.

The expectation is that one should just faceroll everything in the game all the time and never die once, or have to stop for two lousy seconds on the fast track to insta-cap and actually use some noodle before going in all Leroy Jenkins into a pack of mobs that just might kick their booty if they didn't consider a different approach.

Trust me, those of us playing here who feel this way about content - group or solo content - spend far more time feeling "shafted" than any other subset of players I can think of. You really think there should be a string a videos from guilds posted with naked runs of AA because the content is just too hard?? Come on....lol

Meh ---- in the end the problem with MMOs in general is that because they have to cater all playstles they are virtually required to make content that on the one hand requires no skill or forethought whatsoever to complete along with more challenging content. Then we end up with the inevitable rift between groups of alienated players attacking each other for"doing it wrong" either way.

All this being said, the endless arguing over more or less solo content does nothing. Content for everyone and all types is a challenge to produce and unfortunately in ZoS's case, they have not proven to be particularly skilled in developing and delivering that in a consistent manner let alone with good timing. The game is still incredibly new and it has a long way to go before it gets optimized down to clockwork - if it ever gets there. What game did?

Why did SWTOR fail? It had a great solo-play story line but end game content was a flop so people just didn't stick to the game and left. Remember that in an MMORPG, the solo content is supposed to be a learning curve to develop your character & hone your skills before engaging in grouped, end game multiplayer content.

TESO was clearly released unfinished and lacking any endgame content which is what ZOS is trying to address with increasing levels of difficulty. AA & Hel Ra made people rethink their builds and actually use and understand why they where using their ultimates like Negate, nova etc etc..

The release of Hard Modes was made to quench the thirst for even harder content for groups that did runs after runs of AA in ~13 min, where fully stuffed and had nothing else to do than speedruns.

Now they are releasing Arena for groups of 4 players who want to engage in actual challenging content (Crypt of Hearts is a joke compared to Arena, even Normal Mode) and a new trial that no guild has been able to complete yet (granted if we all had our characters & stuff from live server, things would probably go faster).

This means that ZOS has learn't from SWTOR failure, that they are satisfied with the extend of the easy-solo content and are aiming to please the more hardcore/endgame players (note that a great number of Hardcore guilds quit the game before summer because the game just wasn't challenging enough for them). Hardcore guilds create content & publicity, communitiesn they bring players, they make content that makes non hardcore players dream (in the good way) and try harder to be on par.

In the end it's all about money. Solo players will never be satisfied in an MMORPG because some content will never be accessible to them and will end up unsubing. MMO players and hardcore players will keep playing as long as they have challenging multiplayer content to do and a nice side story on the side for those who like that.

Despite the cry and rage we can see in forums, there are probably more MMO & Hardcore players than solo players (like in any MMO) and ZOS clearly wants to please them with the new updates that are coming in order to avoid a SWTOR-like fisaco.

The difference between this MMO and the others (just like SWTOR) is that it's based on the lore and history introduced in solo games.

Let's hope ZOS keeps doing what they are doing and doesn't end up like SWTOR. It's better to loose some solo-players that to go F2P because all the players that reach endgame stop playing.

This is one of the most delusional calls i ever saw on a MMO forum.

Mate , get real.

The amount of casuals , be them solo/group... ANY GROUP of casuals really , will blast the amount of harcore ANYTHING out of the window , on any themepark MMO like ESO lols.

I never saw someone actually try to make a call that the hardcore are a majority group, because it is just ridiculous really.

And dont lump MMO players in that mess , many MMO player are SOLO PLAYERS , ESO just sucks on this endgame, which is not a flaw every game share.

People are really blind, I said MMO AND Hardcore players > to pure solo players. I never implied there where more HC than solo players.

As much as I understand it's enjoyable to say "Nonesence, Hardcore Players are never more in number than solo players", please o PLEASE, LEARN TO READ.

And the amount of casuals that want to play in an MMOG aka with grouped content sure as hell is higher than the amount of casuals that want to solo the game and have nothing to do with grouping or playing with other people (since it's not the purpose of an MMORPG).

Funny you must ALSO learn to read:

"And dont lump MMO players in that mess , many MMO player are SOLO PLAYERS , ESO just sucks on this endgame, which is not a flaw every game share."

Like i said , multiple MMOs player are soloist , hell i have know many over many different games , usually there are things for them to do so they stick around for sometime even after lvlcap and so on.

SAME with group MMO player , who will also leave once the group content doesnt interest them anymore.

Heh , go ask blizzard how many players keep doing their content solo , keep farming for reputation , achivs , funny items , nice mounts ... ALL without ever touching the group content. But hey , i guess they are not MMO players to you lols.

Again , get real.

Attorneyatlawl · August 2014

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge .

Vet dungeons, anomalies and parts of trials are being solo'd as we speak.

Yes, I'm aware of that, I am talking about finishing them i.e. completion, not just soloing trash mobs or one boss.

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

The game is mostly solo content.. It needs more group... I'm sorry if you disagree, but go count it up. there is massive amounts of solo, not so much for people that enjoy the group experience except for one time dungeon runs for skill points and exp. This game is an MMO and even though some of you may not want that to mean group content... IT DOES!

There is plenty of Solo

gwillard_ESO · August 2014

yiasemi wrote: »

Yep, both. I'm solo. I like people, I'm extremely sociable in real life and can be the life and soul of wakes. I am a manager of adults and a leader of vast hordes of little peeps (I'm a senior educator) for most of my working life. I'm a mom, a lover, and a sporty and swimming type. But when I log in I enter that personal space. I love eso because it is an integral part of that personal space Beth and now ZOS have gifted me over the years (along with all the other rpg makers). So look, I'll group up now and then. Happily and I guarantee I will entertain. But give me that space. Or I'm gone. Accommodate me, or I'm vacating. I want groupers to flounder too. (I like fishing only in ESO, it's antisocial, in real life I'd chat all day and party with beer and fish all night). But in ESO I have negotiated private time. PLZ let me , don't make me spend my ebbing social powerz charming you too, I need a break.

This.
Most nights during the week I only have a couple hours to play at most and just want to wind down. Finding a group, even within my guild, takes too much time for me.
Just let me chill without having to listen to the clamor.

gurluasb16_ESO · August 2014

I'm more worried about the rise to VR14, meaning we have no choice but to grind there.

Ridicularded · August 2014

Go play Skyrim.

Stonesthrow · August 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

And if you had been following closely... There is indeed new solo content coming about. It just doesn't happen to be this particular update.

Relax... It's coming.

Of course it's "coming". Lots of things are "coming". Still completely annoying that in this large, anticipated update they couldn't have included something solo oriented. There's only so much waiting, and "relaxing" I'm willing to do based on nebulous promises. It's rather ridiculous to see an update this size that offers many players--myself included--essentially nothing at all.

What exactly did you do in any other MMO you have played once you reached max level and waited a minimum of 6 months for new content let alone new levels?

I agree that having to group to do over world quests in CRAG sucks for many people, myself included, because I got there late and now have to get guildees to lend a hand so I can experience the quest content of a zone.

But, what they are doing with updates, new bugs, balance and WHATEVER else aside, is pretty cool. Constant new content at a quicker than 2 month pace is nothing I have ever seen in the MMOs I played.

LonePirate · August 2014

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

The game is mostly solo content.. It needs more group... I'm sorry if you disagree, but go count it up. there is massive amounts of solo, not so much for people that enjoy the group experience except for one time dungeon runs for skill points and exp. This game is an MMO and even though some of you may not want that to mean group content... IT DOES!

There is plenty of Solo

So I did count it up. Here is all of the group content I found in the game.

-- 16 group dungeons
-- 7 veteran dungeons
-- 63 dark anchors
-- 96 world bosses
-- 16 group challenges in the public dungeons
-- dozens of elite bosses in the public dungeons
-- pretty much all PVP content in Cyrodiil
-- all of Craglorn

This game has plenty or content designed for groups at level. You may not need to form an actual group (as opposed to simultaneous cooperative efforts) to complete it; but there is a lot of group content in this game.

I certainly welcome more group content. It's just that when you look at what constitutes end game content in this game (which is currently only Craglorn and the 1.4 stuff), then all endgame content is group content. The lack of solo/duo endgame content is a glaring imbalance and omission here.

Lionxoft · August 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge .

Vet dungeons, anomalies and parts of trials are being solo'd as we speak.

Yes, I'm aware of that, I am talking about finishing them i.e. completion, not just soloing trash mobs or one boss.

Entire vet dungeons. Entire anomalies.

LonePirate · August 2014

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge .

Vet dungeons, anomalies and parts of trials are being solo'd as we speak.

Yes, I'm aware of that, I am talking about finishing them i.e. completion, not just soloing trash mobs or one boss.

Entire vet dungeons. Entire anomalies.

Just because someone or small number of players can solo the content, that does not mean the content is or was designed to be solo content. That distinction is not understood by some people it would seem.

Lionxoft · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Just because someone or small number of players can solo the content, that does not mean the content is or was designed to be solo content. That distinction is not understood by some people it would seem.

The quote below is the reason why it was posted.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids.

Lionxoft · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The only content in ESO that CANNOT be solo'd are some parts of cyrodiil PVP, 4-man vet dungeons, and the raids. Everything else IS solo. Solo'ers have more than enough content compared to people who want to group and have a challenge .

Vet dungeons, anomalies and parts of trials are being solo'd as we speak.

Yes, I'm aware of that, I am talking about finishing them i.e. completion, not just soloing trash mobs or one boss.

Entire vet dungeons. Entire anomalies.

Just because someone or small number of players can solo the content, that does not mean the content is or was designed to be solo content. That distinction is not understood by some people it would seem.

Also, I'd like to point out that I'd love to have some new content for solo stuff. I'm eagerly awaiting the next solo zone.

Sighlynce · August 2014

Phantax wrote: »

"yes this is an MMO that means there are other people online at the same time as you, it DOESN'T mean you should be forced to group up with them in order to complete aspects of the game or enjoy the content !"

You read my mind.. I am so sick of 'this is an MMO you're supposed to group' mentality,that is not what it means..... I love this game , I love MMO's because I like interacting with others in game but that doesn't mean I want to depend on others to achieve certain goals or gear...

Sighlynce · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

Why can't they scale the mob difficulty AND loot depending on the number of players doing the dungeon?

That way, solo players could still play through them, albeit with diminished returns in terms of loot.

Maxed out groups would still get the best loot, XP, rewards and what not but at least solo players wouldn't feel completely left out.
;-)

Why diminish the returns ? If the difficulty is scaled it would be hard to beat whether single or grouped.. I agree with your premise but completely disagree with your reward system.. I mean if a lone player beats a beefed up mannimarco ( not that he needed beefing up) as in Shadow of the Sancre tor quest , why shouldn't he/she get the same benefits as a group.. Or BETTER gear and xp for being able to solo it

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

The game is mostly solo content.. It needs more group... I'm sorry if you disagree, but go count it up. there is massive amounts of solo, not so much for people that enjoy the group experience except for one time dungeon runs for skill points and exp. This game is an MMO and even though some of you may not want that to mean group content... IT DOES!

There is plenty of Solo

So I did count it up. Here is all of the group content I found in the game.

-- 16 group dungeons
-- 7 veteran dungeons
-- 63 dark anchors
-- 96 world bosses
-- 16 group challenges in the public dungeons
-- dozens of elite bosses in the public dungeons
-- pretty much all PVP content in Cyrodiil
-- all of Craglorn

This game has plenty or content designed for groups at level. You may not need to form an actual group (as opposed to simultaneous cooperative efforts) to complete it; but there is a lot of group content in this game.

I certainly welcome more group content. It's just that when you look at what constitutes end game content in this game (which is currently only Craglorn and the 1.4 stuff), then all endgame content is group content. The lack of solo/duo endgame content is a glaring imbalance and omission here.

PvP can be solo or group. Obviously, the AvAvA stuff like sieges are mandatory group (though I rarely actually join a group, I just listen to zone, run where there is action, and try to make myself useful.) But I have gone off to where people are running to sieges or quest hubs, etc and ganked anyone that straggled. It's harder to do with forward camps functioning now, hopefully those will get changed to be somewhat less effective, while still useful.

There are a lot of ways to PvP, there are a ton of opportunities for different play. You can even PvE with the added risk of PvP, which can be fun in and of itself. A lot of times, when I hang around quest hubs to gank, I quest, too. Just standing around waiting for people gets boring by itself. Plus all the other people skulking around looking to gank will be waiting for you to go to a quest mob and talk to them. Yea they'll get the first attack in, but if you are hurting for action, it can be fun.

For the person that finished Caldwell's gold and is only vr9: I was vr9 when I finished gold as well. I got vr10 (didn't have much to go) in cyrodiil. It was a grind. Then a friend invited me to grind at the thief spawn in Craglorn. There is almost always a group of people there. If the spawn isn't bugged (be sure to kill any shadows before you kill the thief mob) she spawns every 20 seconds. The exp is massive for one kill. You do have to be in the top 12 damage to get exp, (you might be able to skate past this spamming heals though, I haven't tried.) It's the fastest way to level atm, though that may change with 1.4. I will probably head there to grind it out after the dust has settled, because I suspect it will be very full for a week or so.

sandschristierwb17_ESO · August 2014

Draxuul wrote: »

You are reacting as if this was the last patch/update ever, This world will keep groing and groing an groing forever , this next update focuses on bringing in nwe content for groups and the one after might bring in something totally different .

Now i get that you`re probably a hardcore player and that you probably played all classes and all factions all the way to Vr12 but how is it the Devs fault ?

If you choose to rush through all the content as fast as you can and end up with nothing left to do after a few months then thats on you.

More updates will come so just chillax a little and don`t go giving the devs *** for releasing an update that doesn`t suit your own personnal needs. There are a lot of people to please and only so much they can do between updates .

I don`t think you realise the amount of work involved .

Draxuul

The way good (non-bug fixing) patches come out in eso it will be 2 months before the next patch. That's a lot of sub's to wait.

LonePirate · August 2014

The new crafting writ quests that were included in the 1.4 patch have now been removed as of today's 1.4.1 patch. ZOS' disregard for solo players continues to rear its ugly head at the vast majority of the player base.

gurluasb16_ESO · August 2014

Yeah, I had been looking forward to at least have some new crafting content.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

The new crafting writ quests that were included in the 1.4 patch have now been removed as of today's 1.4.1 patch. ZOS' disregard for solo players continues to rear its ugly head at the vast majority of the player base.

crafting writ?

LonePirate · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The new crafting writ quests that were included in the 1.4 patch have now been removed as of today's 1.4.1 patch. ZOS' disregard for solo players continues to rear its ugly head at the vast majority of the player base.

crafting writ?

See these two threads:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/128078/new-crafting-certification-introduction-to-crafting-quests-in-1-4

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/128085/new-crafting-writ-quests-in-1-4

All of them are now gone as of the 1.4.1 patch today.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The new crafting writ quests that were included in the 1.4 patch have now been removed as of today's 1.4.1 patch. ZOS' disregard for solo players continues to rear its ugly head at the vast majority of the player base.

crafting writ?

See these two threads:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/128078/new-crafting-certification-introduction-to-crafting-quests-in-1-4

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/128085/new-crafting-writ-quests-in-1-4

All of them are now gone as of the 1.4.1 patch today.

huh. I thought it was going to be some sort of awful daily, but those look like a good idea.

Krinaman · August 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Trying to 'redefine' what MMO means does nothing to justify why TESO devs should dramatically change one of the traditionally accepted and most pertinent features of many, many subscription MMO's.

Pro-we-want-to-change-the-face-of-MMO's hasn't enough activists rallying overall in the industry yet. TESO offers varying content for lots of different playstyles, just not ALL playstyles in ALL zones, ALL the time.

I'm not redefining the term. I am explaining it's actual meaning since many seem confused about it.

Also I didn't suggest dramatically changing anything. I suggested adding some repeatable solo quests. Something that is in just about every MMO I ever played.