Why I'm liking ESO and why I don't get all the hate.

Xeres14 · August 2014

Well there's a bunch of things here.

Unlike the original post, not many are going to go to a forum or whatever and post they like the game and things are fine. Most posts are going to be negative. Thing about that is these people don't feel that the game is bad. If the game were that bad these people would up and leave without a word.

No what's happening here are suggestions. Some more negative than others, but people wouldn't suggest how to improve something they don't care about.

As for me, I like the game. Despite my complaining about how many slots are in the action bars or the skill lockup problems. I cancelled my subscription for a short while but then realized I missed playing. So I re-subbed. But what I wouldn't give for another 3 slots on each action bar. That's a "suggestion".

And as far as WoW's sophistication - it was as sophisticated as you made it.

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO · August 2014

Crumpy wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

I played for 6 years solid only quitting last xmas, raided all content when it was current excluding very last tier of mop, have pvper to a decently high level 2k rbg 2100 3s nothing special but enough to get a good understanding of the game.

To say it's complicate and that the chat alone has more commands without actually giving an example is hilarious.

This is a game where you can macro moves together (warrior one shot macro etc), attunement is a thing of the past and dungeons are scripted events.

Wow is a lit of things most successful mmo ever, game changer regarding the mmo market and nostalgic part of my gaming history. But to say it is the most sophisticated game is hilarious.

It's a much more sophisticated game than ESO.

I don't think either of you guys understand what sophisticated means being honest. It mean being highly complex or developed. IMO wow is no more sophisticated than ESO.

Though i am willing to see your examples etc.

Psychobunni · August 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

No matter what you say, or not. The reality os another, your bubble will just dissapear as soon as it arrived. And is gonna hurt to the whole TES franchise imho, which is an absolute "crime".

That is another thing I often wonder with so many hardcore groupies responding with "well go play Skyrim again or wait until a new TES is released"........will there even be a new TES? Has so much time/effort/resources been spend creating and attempting to fix while moving forward here, is it the end of the line?

At least there is still FallOut

spammichtotb16_ESO · August 2014

ESO is a nice simple game but many systems are lacking. Sure, much is due to the dumbed down combat system but other limitations such as no auction house or insufficient inventory/bank space are just bad design.

It is still fun to play and I am sure the console players will love it.

SoLja4HirE · August 2014

In the world we live in today with 6 billion+ people. Nothing is ever perfect, with so many different opinions and and points of view, its difficult to cater to everyone. It is good that we express our opinions and views and share them with others so that we know what others think.

There will always be majority and minority views over different matters so in the end, positive and negative feedback can go along way into helping people achieve their ultimate goal-in this case, make a great MMO. Too often we all like to make assumptions that our opinions and views are the only ones that matter and that the interests of others are inferior to that of those who believe otherwise.

I'm not going to name drop any games or developers.I would rather just end off by saying that as long as the companies have the interests and opinions of those who are willing to contribute something valuable to the fan base/forums. Then there is no reason not to believe that we have a great game before us.

raglau · August 2014

spammichtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Sure, much is due to the dumbed down combat system but other limitations such as no auction house or

Whilst I have no issue with inventory size after ploughing millions into increasing it, I do think the lack of an AH is a real thorn. Plus the ghastly interface into guild stores is not conducive to even attempting to make up for an AH.

I don't even bother attempting to sell anything in a trade guild, I deconstruct everything. It's just a lot easier than the utter faff-fest that is trading at the moment.

But, it is a good game and overall being quite simplistic doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game to any degree.

Spectrasoul · August 2014

OP, when you're levelling up 1-50 the game is awesome, you're right. I thought it was the best thing since sliced toast! Trouble is once you grind out the Vet ranks and get in to the "end game" there is not really much to do, I know it's new so fair point we need to give them some more time and we can always go level another character.

For me the biggest problem is not the class imbalance per se, it's the armor and resource imbalance which reflects back on to the classes. I know they're trying to fix it and again patience is needed, the simple fact is though the resource allocation was extremely poorly thought out. In simple terms, stamina sucks magicka rules. Light armor rules all (whatever class). Destro / Resto staff combo is the way to go. All this is in terms of min/maxxing which might not be a fair comparison, but it's not a marginal difference, it's huge.

It was a bad idea to only have stamina used by weapon slot skills. Medium armor is almost redundant. Heavy is very limited usefulness.

I love running around questing using my dual wield medium armor spec, it's awesome fun and for solo play it comes into its own. The trouble is if I want to try do a trial run in Craglorn it's just not going to happen. It's not me being an awkward ****, I should be allowed to use DW / Med armor as a viable option in team situations.

Problem is how can they really change it without a full redesign of all skills?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

lol WoW is awful. It is easy mode and appeals to the lowest common denominator when it comes to playerbase.

Who cares if it has pages of commands, that does not really make an mmo sophisticated, I played a MUD with far more commands than WoW, is it more sophisticated.

WoW is so popular and has been around so long for two reasons: 1) it's easy, so much easier than it's predecessor, and it gets dumb down more and more with time, and 2) it's the first MMO a lot of people played.

You like it. That's fine. But people with taste who don't like it (and who know what the actual definition of sophistication is, as opposed to "has lots of commands") don't lack some quality that you possess.

Venereous44 · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

lol WoW is awful. It is easy mode and appeals to the lowest common denominator when it comes to playerbase.

Who cares if it has pages of commands, that does not really make an mmo sophisticated, I played a MUD with far more commands than WoW, is it more sophisticated.

WoW is so popular and has been around so long for two reasons: 1) it's easy, so much easier than it's predecessor, and it gets dumb down more and more with time, and 2) it's the first MMO a lot of people played.

You like it. That's fine. But people with taste who don't like it (and who know what the actual definition of sophistication is, as opposed to "has lots of commands") don't lack some quality that you possess.

Wrong! WOW still is the pinnacle of all realms of game play. Especially for top tier playing.. there is no comparison. The sheer ignorance seen here is indicative of the short attention span gamer that matches ESO. It takes a military level of coordination (read- art for game play design to achieve this) to run a WOW dungeon, especially veteran content... in ESO, people manage to wing it totally uncoordinated more often than not. There is nothing like that in ESO.. not a single dungeon. I wish there was... but its pretty much impossible the way they designed character skills.

The only thing ESO has over WOW is graphics.

Yes, its easy to jump into because of the brilliant game design... but there are levels of game play that takes months to master... there is very little of that well thought gaming tactical nuance in ESO. Its too bad.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Maverick827 · August 2014

I don't know what the state of WoW is now, but when I quit in Cataclysm, the end-game PvE there was much more challenging than the end-game PvE in ESO.

thewisguyub17_ESO · August 2014

I agree totally with the sentiment of the OP. ESO is a brilliant and inventive new spin on both the Elder Scrolls FPRPG and MMO genres. It has delivered exactly what I know my friends and I wanted, and I have to suspect many other players wanted as well: an Elder Scrolls game that can be played alone or with friends.

That being said, I also don't want to hate on all of the hate being showcased in the forums either. As even the OP conceded, the game is not perfect. The content of these posts (if not the pointedly angry tone of them) are absolutely vital the the continued growth of the game. The most glaring imperfects need to be pointed out, so they can be addressed by the developers.

What actually fills me with a lot of enthusiasm is that while the tone of a lot of the threads are rather vitriolic and angry, there are very few "rage-quit" posts. This says to me that the majority of players and posters are emotionally invested in the game and it's quality. They like it enough to notice, care about, and vehemently point out these problems, while obviously still being willing to pay for and play the game despite them.

I admit to occasionally giving into some hyperbolic frustration myself. But I will not be leaving the game anytime soon. And if/when I do it will invariably be do external pressures of time and real-life responsibilities, not being fed up with the game. The promise of continued improvements and expanding inventive and engaging content is far too exciting to ditch out on... not to mention that I'm still having a blast playing the game as is currently.

So I guess the ultimate point of this excessively "TL;DR" post is that: It's all good. The game is great, and the player community seems entirely devoted to shaping it's continued growth and improvement.

raglau · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm sorry... but really, anyone arguing this point is only reinforcing yourself as a subpar gamer or you never played the game and are just trolling.

I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out the old ad-hominems.

We get that you like WoW, that's great. Some people here like ESO, this is also great.

Ohioastro · August 2014

I think that it's a fine game. A lot of the criticisms stem from deep conservatism: a demand that the game should either adhere to a long list of MMO "standards" or that it should contain exactly the same ingredients as their favorite single-player ES game. Another part is people having utterly unrealistic expectations for online multi-player games; these people don't understand why it is far more complex to debug a MMO than a single player game. (The idea that ESO currently has "numerous problems" is, to me, a mark of someone who will never be satisfied with any MMO.)

Any game will have design choices that will appeal more to some than to others. If you take the game as it is intended, rather than trying to make it like other games, you can find something enjoyable. I've gotten to really liking not having an auction house, which adds something new and enjoyable for me (shopping around cross-guilds and not having the weird distortions of a feudal Amazon shopping system.) I also like the limited action bars far, far more than the multiple batteries of hot keys; the flexible class design is also lovely. (Again, people complaining that some weapons / armor are "better" than others miss the point: that balance is never perfect in a MMO. At least in this one you can choose an effective build for any character; no class is hopeless. And don't start me on the people who mistake "play how you want" with "any foolish concept should work...") I don't need to be able to steal everything and kill everyone to feel as if I can explore. I recognize that a coherent story may ask me to visit zone A before B before C.

There are other decisions that I don't like as much (e.g. limited storage space; some grouping issues), but they really do seem committed to working on the game, and I like the vision that I see going forward.

Tapio75 · August 2014

Since WOW seems to pop up all the time, here is my penny about it.

I played it for 7 years and i agree it was great on times of Burning Crusade and it still was pretty good in beginning of Wrath which was best expansion for me due to lore and story of Arthas Menethil. Late WOTLK it started to go bad and Cataclysm made all the so called spåhistication go away to be replaced with easy mode everyone can do mechanics. Mists of Pandaria was also great.. If we only count the wonderful Pandaren people and the land of Pandaria and that starter area but otherwise, just basic dumbed down gameplay all around.

Today it is nothing more than casual MMO in nice setting. Raids are easy, everyone can do them and tactics in them are non existent compared to what it was pnce. that so called gear is just stat crap that has no value other than everyone wants it fast. Everything is account wide so you dont have to do anything.

It is so damned sophisticated today that all you need to do is sit in Orgrimmar and Stormwind while waiting to que for dungeon, raid or pvp. PVP is so sophisticated that you just sit tight and get kills without moving an inch.

It is a true technological masterpiece what does everything for you today.

Maverick827 · August 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Cataclysm made all the so called spåhistication go away to be replaced with easy mode everyone can do mechanics.

I don't even know that a word exists to describe how easy ESO trials are, then.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

lol WoW is awful. It is easy mode and appeals to the lowest common denominator when it comes to playerbase.

Who cares if it has pages of commands, that does not really make an mmo sophisticated, I played a MUD with far more commands than WoW, is it more sophisticated.

WoW is so popular and has been around so long for two reasons: 1) it's easy, so much easier than it's predecessor, and it gets dumb down more and more with time, and 2) it's the first MMO a lot of people played.

You like it. That's fine. But people with taste who don't like it (and who know what the actual definition of sophistication is, as opposed to "has lots of commands") don't lack some quality that you possess.

Wrong! WOW still is the pinnacle of all realms of game play. Especially for top tier playing.. there is no comparison. The sheer ignorance seen here is indicative of the short attention span gamer that matches ESO. It takes a military level of coordination (read- art for game play design to achieve this) to run a WOW dungeon, especially veteran content... in ESO, people manage to wing it totally uncoordinated more often than not. There is nothing like that in ESO.. not a single dungeon. I wish there was... but its pretty much impossible the way they designed character skills.

The only thing ESO has over WOW is graphics.

Yes, its easy to jump into because of the brilliant game design... but there are levels of game play that takes months to master... there is very little of that well thought gaming tactical nuance in ESO. Its too bad.

I'm sorry... but really, anyone arguing this point is only reinforcing yourself as a subpar gamer or you never played the game and are just trolling.

It is clear you are incapable of telling what is your opinion from what are the facts.

Military level coordination lol. Have you ever been in the military? I'll go tell my dad, a Vietnam vet, that his knowledge would be best used on WoW. That's good.

It's clear that you like WoW, but you need to have some realistic concept of its limitation. Namely, it is ridiculously easy. Go play EQ, which itself has been dumbed down to compete with WoW, and then talk to me about coordination.

I played MMOs well before WoW, I think I know what I'm doing. Having a different opinion than you does not make anyone incompetent or a troll. It just means you are hilariously blind to the reality of the situation.

I have one more word for you with regards to WoW: pandas.

Resueht · August 2014

christy8075b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

No matter what you say, or not. The reality os another, your bubble will just dissapear as soon as it arrived. And is gonna hurt to the whole TES franchise imho, which is an absolute "crime".

That is another thing I often wonder with so many hardcore groupies responding with "well go play Skyrim again or wait until a new TES is released"........will there even be a new TES? Has so much time/effort/resources been spend creating and attempting to fix while moving forward here, is it the end of the line?

At least there is still FallOut

@christy8075b14_ESO‌
ESO is made and maintained by Zenimax Online while TES games are handled by Bethesda. Same corporation, different studios. Therefore any progress on TES VI will not be hindered by ESO.

Kartalin · August 2014

Sharee wrote: »

[...] people who are happy are much less likely to come here and post, while unhappy and frustrated ones on the other hand come here to vent their frustration [...]

Actually I come here while I'm at work because I can't play from my office. I'm not really shirking my work duties either, it's the first week of the semester and none of my students have been coming to see me during office hours yet.

Ogriv wrote: »

[...] I think a weekly progress thread from the devolopers would be a good way of keeping us players up to speed on progress while giving us a constructive opportunity to put our input to the developers on what aspect they are working on.

The Road Ahead stuff is nice, but I agree that it would be good to just see a list of issues that are being worked on. I think a lot of frustration that I see in these forums are based on players seeing a problem that doesn't even appear to be acknowledged by the powers that be. It would be helpful to see that 1) devs are aware of the problem so please stop posting about it every 15 minutes or so for the love of God, and 2) yes, a solution is being developed to address this problem so please relax and take things down a notch or two. From what we've seen I think Zeni's stance is that they're not going to address these things and just quietly go about their business fixing things in the order they feel they need to fix them in. Some people see certain bugs as bigger problems because it affects them personally, and I agree it sucks. But Zeni has to take a big picture approach and they seem to measure the steps they take very carefully. I think we'll appreciate that long term but it can be frustrating in the short term.

I am really enjoying the game. VR content can be a little grindy at times, but I like being able to experience all of the content. I would have created other characters in the pact and covenant if I hadn't been able to see that content with my main character, but I've put so much time into building this character that I'm glad he can continue to evolve and gain skills. I enjoy being able to craft all the items I use, among other skills. I have to buy glyphs still, but I think those are cheaper purchases to make in the long run compared to your gear itself.

This is my first MMO so I don't have the same experiences that others have had, but I enjoyed Oblivion and Skyrim immensely, and I loved being self-sufficient in those games via crafting and everything else. Unlike the single player Elder Scrolls games, in ESO you can't be great at everything and have a simple bank situation, but I'm okay with that here. I have an alt that does alchemy, I make all my armor and weapons, and the enhanced and invigorated foods are actually easy to find at a reasonable price at the guild traders if you look for a bit and hold yourself to a price (e.g. I'm not paying more than 15g per Enhanced Fishy Sticks).

Overall it's been a really positive experience. I've joined a couple of small guilds and made some friends there, and I'm finally feeling comfortable in the MMO setting. I look back to the beta and the first weeks when the game went live and I feel like I knew nothing then. I haven't done much PVP, but I will get to it more consistently at some point. For now I feel like I have plenty to do and enjoy as I work my way through Cadwell's Gold, earning achievements and dyes, and continue my crafting research.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · August 2014

So you ask, why the hate? Why not go play something else? The utmost critical are the utmost passionate about ESO.

that is very true in some cases. in other cases people are simply selfish jerks who have no respect and come across very condescending, proceeding to act as every other opinion is wrong even when they raise valid and reasonable arguments; and the worst of them claim that zos employees are literally idiots for not implementing what their post suggests. thats crossing a line in my book. please dont equate the concerned game lovers with the Haters, there is a difference with venting frustration and being a jerk.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

I played for 6 years solid only quitting last xmas, raided all content when it was current excluding very last tier of mop, have pvper to a decently high level 2k rbg 2100 3s nothing special but enough to get a good understanding of the game.

To say it's complicate and that the chat alone has more commands without actually giving an example is hilarious.

This is a game where you can macro moves together (warrior one shot macro etc), attunement is a thing of the past and dungeons are scripted events.

Wow is a lit of things most successful mmo ever, game changer regarding the mmo market and nostalgic part of my gaming history. But to say it is the most sophisticated game is hilarious.

It's a much more sophisticated game than ESO.

I don't think either of you guys understand what sophisticated means being honest. It mean being highly complex or developed. IMO wow is no more sophisticated than ESO.

Though i am willing to see your examples etc.

Oh I know exactly what it means and compared to it's contemporaries it's not comparably so. The lighting alone in ESO makes it far more sophisticated. There is no way WoW's engine could handle that. Now let's look at EQ2 which was released the same year. It was the first fully voiced MMORPG. That's what you call innovation. WoW did nothing innovative except break records for subs, which means absolutely nothing in terms of quality. I really don't know how to make this any more clear.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

christy8075b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

No matter what you say, or not. The reality os another, your bubble will just dissapear as soon as it arrived. And is gonna hurt to the whole TES franchise imho, which is an absolute "crime".

That is another thing I often wonder with so many hardcore groupies responding with "well go play Skyrim again or wait until a new TES is released"........will there even be a new TES? Has so much time/effort/resources been spend creating and attempting to fix while moving forward here, is it the end of the line?

At least there is still FallOut

Divines give me strength... Bethesda makes the single player games and ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS) makes the online version. They are both owned by ZeniMax Media, but they are completely separate and yes they will still make the single player games.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

lol WoW is awful. It is easy mode and appeals to the lowest common denominator when it comes to playerbase.

Who cares if it has pages of commands, that does not really make an mmo sophisticated, I played a MUD with far more commands than WoW, is it more sophisticated.

WoW is so popular and has been around so long for two reasons: 1) it's easy, so much easier than it's predecessor, and it gets dumb down more and more with time, and 2) it's the first MMO a lot of people played.

You like it. That's fine. But people with taste who don't like it (and who know what the actual definition of sophistication is, as opposed to "has lots of commands") don't lack some quality that you possess.

Wrong! WOW still is the pinnacle of all realms of game play. Especially for top tier playing.. there is no comparison. The sheer ignorance seen here is indicative of the short attention span gamer that matches ESO. It takes a military level of coordination (read- art for game play design to achieve this) to run a WOW dungeon, especially veteran content... in ESO, people manage to wing it totally uncoordinated more often than not. There is nothing like that in ESO.. not a single dungeon. I wish there was... but its pretty much impossible the way they designed character skills.

The only thing ESO has over WOW is graphics.

Yes, its easy to jump into because of the brilliant game design... but there are levels of game play that takes months to master... there is very little of that well thought gaming tactical nuance in ESO. Its too bad.

I'm sorry... but really, anyone arguing this point is only reinforcing yourself as a subpar gamer or you never played the game and are just trolling.

If it was in fact the "pinnacle" of gaming I would say try harder. Luckily it's not.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Since WOW seems to pop up all the time, here is my penny about it.

I played it for 7 years and i agree it was great on times of Burning Crusade and it still was pretty good in beginning of Wrath which was best expansion for me due to lore and story of Arthas Menethil. Late WOTLK it started to go bad and Cataclysm made all the so called spåhistication go away to be replaced with easy mode everyone can do mechanics. Mists of Pandaria was also great.. If we only count the wonderful Pandaren people and the land of Pandaria and that starter area but otherwise, just basic dumbed down gameplay all around.

Today it is nothing more than casual MMO in nice setting. Raids are easy, everyone can do them and tactics in them are non existent compared to what it was pnce. that so called gear is just stat crap that has no value other than everyone wants it fast. Everything is account wide so you dont have to do anything.

It is so damned sophisticated today that all you need to do is sit in Orgrimmar and Stormwind while waiting to que for dungeon, raid or pvp. PVP is so sophisticated that you just sit tight and get kills without moving an inch.

It is a true technological masterpiece what does everything for you today.

You don't even need to play the game anymore. Go to their page. In big bold words "Pre-purchase Warlords of Draenor™ Now and Get a Level-90 Character Boost". I wish I was making this up. You can literally buy a level 90 character. The "pinnacle" of gaming indeed.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13184836/pre-purchase-warlords-of-draenor™-now-and-get-a-level-90-character-boost-3-21-2014

raglau · August 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

You don't even need to play the game anymore. Go to their page. In big bold words "Pre-purchase Warlords of Draenor™ Now and Get a Level-90 Character Boost". I wish I was making this up. You can literally buy a level 90 character. The "pinnacle" of gaming indeed.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13184836/pre-purchase-warlords-of-draenor™-now-and-get-a-level-90-character-boost-3-21-2014

Also, "you also have the option of buying additional character boosts directly through the Shop in-game."

That's pretty sad, and I am ambivalent about WoW; found it very dull when I tried it but am aware it's got a large fan-base.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

squicker wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

You don't even need to play the game anymore. Go to their page. In big bold words "Pre-purchase Warlords of Draenor™ Now and Get a Level-90 Character Boost". I wish I was making this up. You can literally buy a level 90 character. The "pinnacle" of gaming indeed.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13184836/pre-purchase-warlords-of-draenor™-now-and-get-a-level-90-character-boost-3-21-2014

Also, "you also have the option of buying additional character boosts directly through the Shop in-game."

That's pretty sad, and I am ambivalent about WoW; found it very dull when I tried it but am aware it's got a large fan-base.

This actually makes me sick that people still give them money and call themselves "gamers". They are no more gamers than emo are goths.

Venereous44 · August 2014

Okay, lets back up as people are only focusing on single aspects of what I'm saying.

I LIKE ESO... a lot. I wish like all heck that it would have been the game to top WOW.

I'll also admit that I stopped playing WOW years ago because it was killing my hands and wrists... so if they simplified game to the point of making it easy.. well, that's a shame. But easy/hard has nothing to do with sophistication. Balancing the huge amount of abilities that each character types had, making them not just viable actions but indispensable in the scope of that entire game is insane. I would find it hard to believe that all those underlining game mechanics that made up the game would be changed other than tweaking some variables to affect difficulty.

Really, its an accurate statement to say that a single WOW toon has a much larger repertoire than all the characters available in ESO combined together. Balancing all that among another dozen or so available characters.. yeah, that's not sophistication.

Venereous44 · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

lol WoW is awful. It is easy mode and appeals to the lowest common denominator when it comes to playerbase.

Who cares if it has pages of commands, that does not really make an mmo sophisticated, I played a MUD with far more commands than WoW, is it more sophisticated.

WoW is so popular and has been around so long for two reasons: 1) it's easy, so much easier than it's predecessor, and it gets dumb down more and more with time, and 2) it's the first MMO a lot of people played.

You like it. That's fine. But people with taste who don't like it (and who know what the actual definition of sophistication is, as opposed to "has lots of commands") don't lack some quality that you possess.

Wrong! WOW still is the pinnacle of all realms of game play. Especially for top tier playing.. there is no comparison. The sheer ignorance seen here is indicative of the short attention span gamer that matches ESO. It takes a military level of coordination (read- art for game play design to achieve this) to run a WOW dungeon, especially veteran content... in ESO, people manage to wing it totally uncoordinated more often than not. There is nothing like that in ESO.. not a single dungeon. I wish there was... but its pretty much impossible the way they designed character skills.

The only thing ESO has over WOW is graphics.

Yes, its easy to jump into because of the brilliant game design... but there are levels of game play that takes months to master... there is very little of that well thought gaming tactical nuance in ESO. Its too bad.

I'm sorry... but really, anyone arguing this point is only reinforcing yourself as a subpar gamer or you never played the game and are just trolling.

It is clear you are incapable of telling what is your opinion from what are the facts.

Military level coordination lol. Have you ever been in the military? I'll go tell my dad, a Vietnam vet, that his knowledge would be best used on WoW. That's good.

It's clear that you like WoW, but you need to have some realistic concept of its limitation. Namely, it is ridiculously easy. Go play EQ, which itself has been dumbed down to compete with WoW, and then talk to me about coordination.

I played MMOs well before WoW, I think I know what I'm doing. Having a different opinion than you does not make anyone incompetent or a troll. It just means you are hilariously blind to the reality of the situation.

I have one more word for you with regards to WoW: pandas.

No, you're pretty incompetent. I have listed facts several times but trolls like just keep spouting the same trolling garbage over and over. You're erroneously interpreting opinion for fact.

Vatter · August 2014

Only the casual solo player that has no concern with paying money for a broken product remains. The tens of thousands who know this product is broken have already left.

Even ZOS knows this product is broken. They pushed the console release back to December.

All you guys are doing is paying to beta test the console version.

Why do I still play? Because I've been fighting ZOS for a full refund of all the money I've paid them. Had to file a complaint with the BBB. Through moderation my account was credited 3 months of game time.

Venereous44 · August 2014

Of course, I see now arguing this on an ESO forum is moot. So I'll bow out to your myopic visions of your fantasy opinion.

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

Okay, lets back up as people are only focusing on single aspects of what I'm saying.

I LIKE ESO... a lot. I wish like all heck that it would have been the game to top WOW.

I'll also admit that I stopped playing WOW years ago because it was killing my hands and wrists... so if they simplified game to the point of making it easy.. well, that's a shame. But easy/hard has nothing to do with sophistication. Balancing the huge amount of abilities that each character types had, making them not just viable actions but indispensable in the scope of that entire game is insane. I would find it hard to believe that all those underlining game mechanics that made up the game would be changed other than tweaking some variables to affect difficulty.

Really, its an accurate statement to say that a single WOW toon has a much larger repertoire than all the characters available in ESO combined together. Balancing all that among another dozen or so available characters.. yeah, that's not sophistication.

Look, everything you are saying is simply opinion. Provide an actual fact or some way to back up what you're saying or just stop. We get that you like the game, but don't pretend like it's some masterpiece that it's not. It hasn't done anything that dozens of other MMO's haven't done except have a great business model, which again, doesn't mean it was a great game.