Do you like or dislike increasing Vet Ranks?
-
KraidenDove✭✭Undecided.I understand it is an MMO. I understand that higher level content should be executed with friends. This is a Elder Scrolls game though ZOS. Craglorn was a nightmare for folks in small guilds to be able to level from VR10-12 and it resulted in a 1-3 day straight mindless grind fest without playing any of the actual content. This is extremely common in craglorn content because most people want to explore the zone, but the truth is you can't complete unless you are VR12 as most groups won't even let you in for content grouping.
Most folks are now returning to the game after the VR zone difficulty disaster and most of their characters are not even VR12 yet! That isn't even beginning to explore alt characters who folks want to tinker with.
With this new content you want to up the cap to VR14. For a full priced legendary level suit with legendary glyphs and crafting materials with a 100% success rate on every piece will run you around 70k gold even with the kindest and most discounted crafter. (average price around 100k+ usually) Folks that are VR12 are just now making the investment to have these things made and the guys in the lower ranks are pushing hard just to be able to wear them!
If you increase the rank to VR14 in 1.4, you will essentially reset the end game crafting economy (Again! cough cough VR10-12 in 2 months!) and it creates a mindless grind fest of money and resources. Given that gold cannot be gained by reasonable players at those level of prices, and materials for end game materials are fetching an average price of at least 2.5k per piece, VR14 increase will cause enough frustration on crafter and buyer side to quit out of pure resentment. It takes all the work and experimentation (that we have only just now got to decent levels) and throws it out the window for purchaser and crafter.
(merged from original argument)Edited by KraidenDove on August 23, 2014 2:07PM3 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dislike!So today I had an idea for a set of armor and I was excited to try it. Then I remembered that the level cap is increasing soon... so I decided not to craft it because why bother? I wont be able to use it for very long.
The game is so stale knowing that anything you try and craft or work toward will be outdated shortly.3 -
Srugzal✭✭✭✭✭Like!Nox_Aeterna wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Max level should increase gradually. This is not gradual.
And it should come with content for everyone to do , which isn't the case.
By that you mean non-grouped content, I presume. Because everyone at the appropriate level can do the content, you just have to group.
Any new content is primarily of immediate use pretty much only to VR12 players anyway. So far at least, aside from pets, dye pots, post-processing, and such.
Everyone else already has things to do, by definition. I doubt very seriously that new XP-earning content will be added to the level 1-50 experience; people tend to out-level themselves as it is. Champion points and spellcrafting might have an impact, but even that isn't entirely clear yet.
The one exception might be Arena-style PvP in the Imperial City. And that's pretty much vaporware at this point. Not even that, maybe "promiseware" is a better term.
Or better yet, "don't-hold-your-breathware." ;-)
On the other hand, I'm sure that ZOS has taken notice of the organized 1x1 tournaments that go on in Cyrodiil under flags of truce. They know we want it...
Edited by Srugzal on August 23, 2014 9:20PM0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!jambam817_ESO wrote: »Meh...
I'd have preferred the Champion change instead. My highest is VR6 and another at VR2. I've done all alliance zones multiple times now. Cant find a good grouping guild to save my life so i wont be visiting Craglorn or Cyrodill... kinda at a stand still right now, even started playing Everquest again...
ya
everquest.
you know you can swim in that game underwater?!?! WHAAAAT?!
why would you need a group to visit cyrodiil? Plenty of non group stuff you can do there.
I usually don't group when I do siege stuff, I just listen to zone and watch the map and run where the action is.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.1 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!Hey guys we know you didn't like the VET system since it was such a drastic departure from our 1-50 game. So we're changing it in phases; we also found out the VET point system was rather confusing and not ideal so we will change how Vet ranks go up in levels by using experience instead of VET points, but in the meantime here's two more vet ranks using vet points; the system we just explained to our players why they don't like it!
w
t
f....
5 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!Well , i do see one positive point for me in this VR increase.
Just grind the 2Nox_Aeterna wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Max level should increase gradually. This is not gradual.
And it should come with content for everyone to do , which isn't the case.
By that you mean non-grouped content, I presume. Because everyone at the appropriate level can do the content, you just have to group.
Any new content is primarily of immediate use pretty much only to VR12 players anyway. So far at least, aside from pets, dye pots, post-processing, and such.
Everyone else already has things to do, by definition. I doubt very seriously that new XP-earning content will be added to the level 1-50 experience; people tend to out-level themselves as it is. Champion points and spellcrafting might have an impact, but even that isn't entirely clear yet.
The one exception might be Arena-style PvP in the Imperial City. And that's pretty much vaporware at this point. Not even that, maybe "promiseware" is a better term.
Or better yet, "don't-hold-your-breathware." ;-)
On the other hand, I'm sure that ZOS has taken notice of the organized 1x1 tournaments that go on in Cyrodiil under flags of truce. They know we want it...
That is the issue , we have to group to do this content.
Which would not be so much of an issue IF it didnt also came with +2VR which now makes something everyone freaking needs.
So back we go to craglorn to grind + 2VR, before we can leave that place once more.Hey guys we know you didn't like the VET system since it was such a drastic departure from our 1-50 game. So we're changing it in phases; we also found out the VET point system was rather confusing and not ideal so we will change how Vet ranks go up in levels by using experience instead of VET points, but in the meantime here's two more vet ranks using vet points; the system we just explained to our players why they don't like it!
w
t
f....
Easier to squeeze water from a stone than to actually get logic from the zen devs."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Endenium✭✭✭Dislike!Honestly, I think they are OK. However, I really hate the idea of raising the max veteran rank. I am offended by it. Do you think we don't realize that you are essentially just tying the carrot to a stick and dangling it in front of us?
Let me ask you something, because this is how I see it.
1.What is the point?
We dont get any skill points for increasing in rank. We dont get any attributes. We can equip better gear... OK. Well why not make more levels of quality gear? Then, we could be challenged in interesting ways to earn that gear, rather just grind to v12, then v14, then v16, then v18, then v20 just to equip it.
Which brings me to my next point.
2. Where does it end?
You are either replacing or confusing an end game scenario with a game that never ends. Instead of leveling your character and growing in strength to go out and actually achieve something, we would be forced to continuously level without any really significant objective in mind.
Those of us that PVE want to run dungeons or be immersed in Tamriel in fun ways. Those of us that PVP want to go out to Cyrodil and battle. Thats why we play this game. Most of us don't play just to grind for hours and hours. That can be a good way to level, but it doesn't mean that we want to be doing it. It feels like a chore. We would much rather be doing the end game activities that we were promised would be in the game.
3. Why punish us?
Although grinding and questing to level up can be fun, it also inevitably starts to feel like a chore to most players if it goes on long enough. So why force us to any more of it than we have to? Why not focus your time and resources on adding new content rather than recycling old content?
It is redundant.
You can add new gear without forcing us to go back onto the treadmill. You can do all sorts of things to encourage more gameplay without stripping away our current achievements. When we hit v12, we feel powerful. We feel like we accomplished something. Thats a good thing. So what happens when you raise the levels? You take that from us. We max out our characters, we are happy. Then, that is taken from us. We are no longer maxed out. We are forced to accomplish the same thing multiple times.
It is redundant.1 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Undecided.I enjoy vet ranks, concept was really cool. But to the Champion system, I dislike them. I love and hate them lol.~Thallen~0 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Like!I don't see how increasing vet ranks is any different than increasing armor ranks in other MMO's. except instead of grinding the same dungeons a million times I can progressively work towards it alone or in a group and then make the armor.0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Undecided.Like! I was VR 12 two days after the last rank increase, trials just got uninteresting for me since I got all gear and Hard Mode rewards are kinda useless when you look @ how difficult they are to complete and how low the armour difference is (even though Hard Mode gear is supposed to scall up to VR14 so I guess it will be a nice addition
)
I don't understand people that dislike this so much.
First of all: It's no big news. Level increase has been on the works for a while now, Champion system was only spoken of at Quakecon and it was unrealistic to think that it would come so soon and that upper Craglorn and the next zones wouldn't come with a level increase.
Secondly: If you're ages away from being VR12, two or four more levels won't make a difference and if you're slow beacuse you're taking your time and enjoying the game, you should rejoice that you will have even more content to clear. As for being competitive, if you aren't VR12 yet, I'm sad to announce that it's sadly never gonna happen no matter how fast the levels increase
).
Regarding gear:For people complaining about their enchanted gear, the level increase is no big news once again and after the latest changes on gear, you should have anticipated this by not enchanting to legendary (which once again should be a very rare & expensive thing to do anyways). ZOS has made major changes to gear since the beginning and I can assure you it's not over yet. If you where naive enough to believe ZOS would behave differently you can only blame yourself.
At last: It's a bit egoistical to tell people that have already reached max level that they have to wait for slower people to catch up because they are slow or don't play much. That's not how most MMOs work and it's a good thing. As someone stated above, if you want a game for casual players that won't evolve much with no linear progression and that still allows you to be competitive (to a certain extend): GW2 might be what you're looking for. The fact you are slow at clearing content shouldn't penalize people that have been VR12 for weeks and are waiting for more things to do.
Haters "LOL" at will. Won't make all of this less true.
I believe there are more casual players than hardcore. If you want the game to survive you are going to have to find a way to at least compromise. Because if the casuals go play GW2, guess what happens to ESO? Bye bye, hardcore gamers alone will not be able to sustain it. Basic math. Don't get me wrong, I'm technically on your side. Though I thought it was a bit odd to already increase the lvl cap, I don't really care either. I'm fine with it. I'm VR6 and 3/4 at the moment, probably would be 8 or 9 if I didn't go out of country for a month. But either way, it's a very fine line that ZOS has to walk along to please everyone. They can increase the cap all they want as long as the continue to fix other issues. PLUS, there is one thing people are forgetting. The higher the level cap, the more stuff they add in game anyways, so to me that equals more content and more longevity for the game and more stuff for me to do as opposed to reaching level cap and being bored waiting for the next update, since I probably won't reach level cap by the time they up it again (if they continue the current trend at least lol).Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!0 -
Endenium✭✭✭Dislike!Secondly: If you're ages away from being VR12, two or four more levels won't make a difference and if you're slow beacuse you're taking your time and enjoying the game, you should rejoice that you will have even more content to clear. As for being competitive, if you aren't VR12 yet, I'm sad to announce that it's sadly never gonna happen no matter how fast the levels increase ).
Regarding gear:For people complaining about their enchanted gear, the level increase is no big news once again and after the latest changes on gear, you should have anticipated this by not enchanting to legendary (which once again should be a very rare & expensive thing to do anyways). ZOS has made major changes to gear since the beginning and I can assure you it's not over yet. If you where naive enough to believe ZOS would behave differently you can only blame yourself.
At last: It's a bit egoistical to tell people that have already reached max level that they have to wait for slower people to catch up because they are slow or don't play much. That's not how most MMOs work and it's a good thing. As someone stated above, if you want a game for casual players that won't evolve much with no linear progression and that still allows you to be competitive (to a certain extend): GW2 might be what you're looking for. The fact you are slow at clearing content shouldn't penalize people that have been VR12 for weeks and are waiting for more things to do.
1. "If you're ages away from being VR12, two or four more levels won't make a difference."
Except that it does make a difference. It is another 2 levels of grinding which can translate to an extra 2 to 3 hours of redundant game play in Craglorn. That is 2 to 3 hours on top of the many many many hours of grinding and redundant game play that we have already been through, or will have to go through.
It makes a difference. It is extra work to do. Work being the key word. This should be a fun game, not a tedious job.
They can and should add fun content to the game in other ways that avoid making players run a treadmill. There is nothing stopping them from adding new v12 gear. There is nothing stopping them from adding new v12 content.
2. "For people complaining about their enchanted gear, the level increase is no big news once again and after the latest changes on gear, you should have anticipated this by not enchanting to legendary.."
"you can only blame yourself."
Wrong. That is their mistake, not ours. We can only act off of information that they give us. We should not have to guess at what is coming and we should not have to dismiss promises that they give us. Otherwise, the dialog between developers and players is utterly meaningless.
Words have meaning. When they hold huge press events and announce changes and plans for future updates, we can only take them at their word and prepare for what they say is coming. To do otherwise is crazy because it is impossible to know what they plan on doing without considering what they claim they plan on doing.
Also, consider what you are saying. "For people complaining about their enchanted gear, the level increase is no big news once again and after the latest changes on gear, you should have anticipated this by not enchanting to legendary.."
According to that logic, we should never enchant our gear or improve it to legendary quality. Why? Because according to you we should anticipate another max level increase. So instead of joyfully accomplishing the tedious and, by your own words, "very rare & expensive" task of improving and enchanting our gear to legendary status, we should refrain because the developers are just going raise the max level anyway.
3. Your last paragraph you say that it is "egotistical" to ask for people to wait for them to catch up before raising levels, thus adding more distance between older and newer characters.
Actually, I think that is entirely reasonable. Also, that has nothing to do with one's ego. This is a massively multiplayer online role playing game. It seems to me that the intent of MMo games is to provide a platform for many players to get together to play a game. If the developers continuously raise max veteran rank level, then at some point they will have created a scenario in which new players could never catch up to older players. The distance between their characters could become too great to ever hope that they could match up and be balanced enough to attempt the same challenges. Not only that, but lets say old players want to reroll as a new class, new race, and/ or new alliance. Good luck ever catching up to your other characters and all the friends and guild mates you used to play with as those characters.
At some point, max level, or max veteran rank needs to be firmly established in order for people to continue to play together.5 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!I think they add them too often and too fast. I barely hit VR10, idk when I will finally hit VR12 but I feel like by that time the next update will be live, which means I will never run trials and experience their actual, intended difficulty.
I'm very upset.Edited by Artis on August 24, 2014 1:15AM3 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Like!Like. If I wanted to play a game where my character never grew or changed, I'd go play Call of Duty.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno
The results of this poll warrant an acknowledgement.
The keystone of your next patch is disliked by more than half of your most passionate players (read: forum readers) and makes another fifth uneasy.
Those who like the changes are mostly interested in more progression (who isn't?) which can easily be offered without making people grind 12 million more XP, invaliding the gear you just made them re-craft with the last patch, and setting a precedent of monthly gear resets.
Please rethink this change. Scale all Upper Craglorn enemies back to VR12 and offer the VR14 gear's stats on VR12 gear. Let people be able to use their current heard-earned VR12 gear to earn better VR12 gear, not grind for a weekend (or a month, if you PvP), re-make VR14 gear, and only then be able to start doing competitive content again.
Alternatively, you could do the following:
1. Increase PvP XP (this is needed regardless)
2. Allow players to use base crafting materials to increase their equipment levels (e.g., a piece of cloth crafted with Jute could be increased to a Flax-level item by using Flax, and so on with higher level items)
OR, add a fourth rank to Unraveling/Metal Extraction/Wood Extraction that returns a larger percent of materials when deconstructing an item that you, yourself have crafted (or make a new passive entirely) (e.g., you get 5+ Legendary materials when deconstructing a Legendary item that you have created yourself.3 -
Endenium✭✭✭Dislike!Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Like. If I wanted to play a game where my character never grew or changed, I'd go play Call of Duty.
1. Adding 2 more Veteran Ranks will not grow your character or change it. You will not earn new skill points for ranking up, nor will you earn more attribute points. In fact, nothing about your character will change at all. We will all be forced to grind for 12 million more xp, but ranking up will not grow or change our characters in any way.
2. There are other ways to grow or change your character that make much more sense and do not rely on redundant grind runs in Craglorn.
3. Since the Veteran Rank system has nothing whatsoever to do with the power or ability of a character and only exists as a way to unlock more powerful gear, then that is what you should be advocating for. If you want your character to grow and change, then you're on the wrong side of the fence here. You should be pushing for developers to introduce new, more powerful gear.
Adding more Vet Ranks is a waste of time.
* edited for typoEdited by Endenium on August 24, 2014 11:46PM5 -
Endenium✭✭✭Dislike!Maverick827 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno
The results of this poll warrant an acknowledgement.
The keystone of your next patch is disliked by more than half of your most passionate players (read: forum readers) and makes another fifth uneasy.
Those who like the changes are mostly interested in more progression (who isn't?) which can easily be offered without making people grind 12 million more XP, invaliding the gear you just made them re-craft with the last patch, and setting a precedent of monthly gear resets.
Please rethink this change. Scale all Upper Craglorn enemies back to VR12 and offer the VR14 gear's stats on VR12 gear. Let people be able to use their current heard-earned VR12 gear to earn better VR12 gear, not grind for a weekend (or a month, if you PvP), re-make VR14 gear, and only then be able to start doing competitive content again.
Alternatively, you could do the following:
1. Increase PvP XP (this is needed regardless)
2. Allow players to use base crafting materials to increase their equipment levels (e.g., a piece of cloth crafted with Jute could be increased to a Flax-level item by using Flax, and so on with higher level items)
OR, add a fourth rank to Unraveling/Metal Extraction/Wood Extraction that returns a larger percent of materials when deconstructing an item that you, yourself have crafted (or make a new passive entirely) (e.g., you get 5+ Legendary materials when deconstructing a Legendary item that you have created yourself.
I like a lot of what you suggest here.
If they keep raising max level and forcing people to craft new legendary gear then players deserve to be granted with the ability to break down current legendary gear for 100% of the material that they put into it.4 -
Jackfu21Soul ShrivenDislike!
Yeah some people have these things called jobs so how about we just leave it 12 is enough for now.Frenkthevile wrote: »I'm tired of MMOs for casual players. Finally i found again vertical progression and new maps addition like in the ''good old times''. Go play gw2 if you like so much fancy hats and a character that will always remain the same, with the same build!
0 -
Dovhakiin✭✭Dislike!I dont hate VRs ,but what I hate is how you have to level it up,I mean,all you need is ; do the same quests that you did with your alts...I mean,srsly?0 -
KraidenDove✭✭Undecided.
Yeah some people have these things called jobs so how about we just leave it 12 is enough for now.Frenkthevile wrote: »I'm tired of MMOs for casual players. Finally i found again vertical progression and new maps addition like in the ''good old times''. Go play gw2 if you like so much fancy hats and a character that will always remain the same, with the same build!
Best argument I have heard all day.
I am now "Dislike!" as well.Edited by KraidenDove on August 25, 2014 1:02AM2 -
Hadria✭✭✭✭It's being increased weather you like it or not and for reasons which no one here seems to understand.
People complained about vr levels being boring and too hard and didn't show character progress. We knew v14 was coming since before June the crying didn't really start till lil after that. Zos came up with champion system, release v14 earlier than expected to give you something to do while you wait for champion.2 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Like!Oh you thought you were getting over by spending absurd amounts of gold to buy gear that wasn't intended to be BOE. Well... gotcha.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
Bleakraven✭✭✭✭Undecided.I'm not sure. I'm not even a veteran yet, just been doing every quest on a couple of characters with a friend, enjoying the scenery, listening to the dialogue, discussing choices... I'm just afraid eso will become a gear treadmill instead of a great story-centered mmo...
0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!I am very disappointed that this topic is not getting any attention from Zenimax.2 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Undecided.I have to ask this, is Legendary Gear that much of boost as compared to say Blue Gear? Does it make that much of a difference a PvP battle? Is a Blue tempered player going to lose each and every time to a Gold tempered character?
Sure, there is a gain, but does it really matter?Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dislike!
Why not just remove green/blue/epic/legendary as rarities and have everyone just wear white, non-magic armor at that point?I have to ask this, is Legendary Gear that much of boost as compared to say Blue Gear? Does it make that much of a difference a PvP battle? Is a Blue tempered player going to lose each and every time to a Gold tempered character?
Sure, there is a gain, but does it really matter?0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Undecided.OK, you can respond with a straw man argument or you can answer my question. I am honestly wondering if the gear makes that much of a difference in the game between Blue and Gold. If you don't know one way or the other, then don't post.
Edited by Nestor on August 26, 2014 6:12PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
Dislike!No, legendary gear does not ofc make someone always win over someone wearing blue gear. Legendary gear does give (imo to little) bonuses though, like when enchanted with impenetrable, the person wearing legendary gear will have +2% crit-resi for every piece of armor that has that stat.Noricum
Thx to Giny, Sarana, Thaili, Derra, Cherahim, Gloy, Raweelz and Drimacus, you make the game worth playing even with AoE-caps, no usefull progression past Assault / Support Rank 10, and with PvP being not even close to balanced.
Chars: Sera - VR12 Templar (Heal / DPS) ||| Seraliah - VR12 Dragonknight (DPS / Tank)0 -
morvegil✭✭✭✭Dislike!TreadmillLo'ke
Nord Vampire
Nightblade
Shield+BOW
Daggerfall CovenantBandit KingBridge Bandits Guild0