This is just a non issue for me. My vet main has never had a problem with doing dolmens with lowbies. I usually just heal them or whack the boss. They are usually thankful. My low level alts have not encountered any ill mannered vets either. Been glad to see them help out!

As far as the pinions go, yeah it is always a race to see who gets them. That goes no matter if you have a group of vet 12s or a group of lvl 10s. It is just part of the game. As long as I get one or two I count it as a success.

I'm doing a lot of dolmens, all in vet zones (or vet Cyrodiil campaign), preferably at my level and solo. Crushing lil' daedra in lowbie areas is just no fun at all. And I never touch the pinions, if other players are around. Got my achievement for this long ago, so no need for running after 'em. Eventually I'll get my achievement for the bosses too, but I'm in no haste to do so. And certainly not in boring lowbie terrain...

Srugzal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

You might value what having paid off that loan says about you as a person, but you definitely don't look back at the time spent paying off that loan as "fun."

To my mind, spending time in an MMO doing things you don't enjoy is just, well, lunacy. Especially if you pay for the privilege.

Not if it gives you a sense of accomplishment, and if that sense of accomplishment is worth more to you than the time you've spent doing things that you don't enjoy.

Can't agree with that, not if the process isn't meaningful. If it isn't, for me the achievement is also meaningless. Different strokes.

I wasn't talking about whether it's meaningful for you. You said that it's lunacy. I pointed out that for some people the sense of accomplishment is worth it, and therefore it's not lunacy for them. If you can't agree with that, then you lack the ability to understand that different things are important to different people.

So you feel that it's necessary to attack me to make your point? Tsk tsk.

Unlike you, I'm not pronouncing universal truth here, just articulating my own opinion, and acknowledging that others have different views. You should try to do the same.

Um, what? How is anything there an attack? My entire point is that different people have different views, so it's unfair for you to say that it's lunacy for them to do something they don't enjoy, when it's possible that for them the payoff makes it worth it. You specifically said you can't agree with that. You're the one who won't acknowledge that other people have different views. Either you agree that it's not lunacy for those people (and you've said you don't agree with that), or you're saying that others can't have different views from you (which means that you lack the ability to understand that different things are important to different people). End of story, with absolutely zero attacks on anyone.

Ummm, sure mate. Whatever you say. <backs slowly away>

OK, as you don't seem to have been able to follow the conversation (even though it's all in the quotes above, so it should be really easy to see), here's how it went:
You: it's lunacy to do something you don't enjoy in a game.
Me: it's not lunacy to someone who feels the payoff makes it worth it.
You: I can't agree - even if someone feels the payoff makes it worth it it's still lunacy.
Me: if you can't agree then that means you can't understand that different things are important to different people.
You: stop attacking me! I'm the one who understands that different people have different views, even though I called them lunatics for having them!
Me: what? You're not making any sense.
You: I don't have an answer to that.

When it takes 20 minutes to find a group in VR do to dolmens with, you will go to the lower levels to farm achievements too

I'd just like to point out that many of us VR players had the same issue when we were leveling up with the inflated group of people that all started when the game went live. Only the issue there was not being able to get a hit in because there were 50 level appropriate people killing things so fast. So dolmens have always been a bit of a problem. Also bots in dungeons. Need I say more? I guess the point is, it's a shared game and sometimes certain content is just too crowded and you may have to wait

Srugzal wrote: »

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

I'm guilty of this one as well. But when I hit VR12 (Cadwell's gold, all quests and dungeons complete) I only had a little over 200 Dwemer constructs for that achievement, so that one is a little off the mark (every other hunter achievement was done or nearly done by the time I hit VR12). Can you imagine grinding out 800 Dwemer at level? I was able to grind it out in a couple hours in low level dungeons. And while I do try to be courteous to low level players, I'm sure some came in behind me to find an empty dungeon.

I like to give the game designers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the effects of certain design decisions, like the balance issues between armor types or the legitimacy of the existence of a de-facto gold standard build (the so-called "sorc in a dress with sticks").

But I'll bet you anything that when these achievements were designed, nobody foresaw top ranked players farming low-level dungeons like this. Who would have thought that people would go out for this sort of thing?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing. I just can't imagine that this was anticipated. And that gets me thinking... what else was not anticipated?

And they said the game didn't have emergent gameplay! Maybe the meta-game of achievements... is the real game...?

Yeah, like I said, all the other hunter achievements seemed to be pretty spot on and kind of took care of themselves by the time I hit VR12. They should have made the number of Dwemer for the achievement 250 instead of 1000. You just don't encounter them often enough.

SirAndy wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

So if you want to complain about something, you can point your fingers at ZoS, not the veteran players.

@Arsenic_Touch
You didn't get the point the OP was making. Nobody is blaming the VR players for the game mechanics. Nobody said they shouldn't be at low level dolmens.

He's simply asking VR players to not be [snip] about it.

Consider the low level players, let them get a few hits so they get credit for the dolmen too. Problem solved, everyone goes home happy.
;-)

That all depends how you look (or feel) about things.

One thing I want to make clear is I haven't tried to get this achievement, my comments on all of this started with the line "I suppose" and are purely thoughts on why people play like they do, and while I don't choose to play like it, I fully understand why people do and I don't judge them for them choosing how valuable their time is, it's not their fault how the game is designed and as has been said, a lot of players never got to do them on level due to the sheer number of players in low level areas at game release.

I personally do not like being power leveled at all. If I am doing a dungeon or a dolmen on level, I never want high levels helping me, it takes all the fun/challenge out if it.

So for me, if I was doing a dolmen on level, any vet player taking part will spoil my experience. Them healing me so I'm imortal or them letting me get a hit on the boss before they obliterate it would feel like zero accomplishment.

So from my point of view, the suggestions to be fair to non vet on level players are pointless as my challenge will still have been taken away.

And there's no solution with the current design, I either try at a different time and hope no vet players are around or my experience is ruined, there is no compromise to this.

There are other things wrong with dolmens, ever notice when you are fighting on level there's always one or two people doing zero fighting but hovering to get the pins.

Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

I'd just like to point out that many of us VR players had the same issue when we were leveling up with the inflated group of people that all started when the game went live. Only the issue there was not being able to get a hit in because there were 50 level appropriate people killing things so fast. So dolmens have always been a bit of a problem. Also bots in dungeons. Need I say more? I guess the point is, it's a shared game and sometimes certain content is just too crowded and you may have to wait


Yeah, like I said, all the other hunter achievements seemed to be pretty spot on and kind of took care of themselves by the time I hit VR12. They should have made the number of Dwemer for the achievement 250 instead of 1000. You just don't encounter them often enough.

Yeah, this one was one of my last 2 hunters to finish.

I tended to find your first point affected Dwemer mobs more than others. When my main was leveling on release he got nearly none anywhere. I hit VR 12 with like 150 killed ( I did all the mostly empty pre-nerf VR zones, and got most of those kills there)... almost entirely due to being at "new game surge" level I missed out on a lot of kills pre-50. I think Stonefalls and Coldharbor were the worst for me (I'm EP) I think I killed nothing that wasn't quest related in either zone, and usually had to wait for what I got. Some of that was bots too.

My 2nd character got to VR 1 with like 230 Dwemer construct kills. I haven't even gone through VR with him yet and he has more.

My 3rd character is in a bit of another surge right now (at level 29) and has soem issues with stuff in delves.

---

I found the best Dwemer construct spot to be the dungeon in Eastern Eastmarch. A lot of the rooms have 1 or 2 "spider traps" that will throw out 5 (ish don't remember exactly) spiders. 1 run through can give 90+ dwemer if you hit all the traps. (everything was dead when I went through with my first character... but found it to be true with my 2nd, so brought my main in to grind out the hunter ach. fast.) I wish it were a VR zone for me, so I could grind collectibles there too)


Just wait till they fix the grey mob drops (guts and hides)... because I think that means low mobs will drop collection items too.

(right now they have to be XP level.. but some mobs just aren't VR in some alliances.)

All hell will break loose then.

Srugzal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, as you don't seem to have been able to follow the conversation (even though it's all in the quotes above, so it should be really easy to see), here's how it went:
You: it's lunacy to do something you don't enjoy in a game.
Me: it's not lunacy to someone who feels the payoff makes it worth it.
You: I can't agree - even if someone feels the payoff makes it worth it it's still lunacy.
Me: if you can't agree then that means you can't understand that different things are important to different people.
You: stop attacking me! I'm the one who understands that different people have different views, even though I called them lunatics for having them!
Me: what? You're not making any sense.
You: I don't have an answer to that.

<making no sudden movements, I back through to the cave entrance and quietly slip back into the real world>

So you still don't have any way to support your position that other people are lunatics for having different views from you, and yet somehow that makes you the one who is able to see other people's viewpoints. Got it.

Srugzal wrote: »

<making no sudden movements, I back through to the cave entrance and quietly slip back into the real world>

apostate9 wrote: »

Yeah, I get your feels. This whole thread should be painted institutional green.

apostate9 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Nice try, but you are mistaken about both, my apprehensions and my emotions.

Naw. Doesn't appear that I am.

To play on a Winston Churchill quote, "never has so little been said by so few for so many".

Seriously guys, enough with the theatrics, and actually discuss the subject. Any more posts like the above and you'd fail any Turing test on the planet.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

So if you want to complain about something, you can point your fingers at ZoS, not the veteran players.

@Arsenic_Touch
You didn't get the point the OP was making. Nobody is blaming the VR players for the game mechanics. Nobody said they shouldn't be at low level dolmens.

He's simply asking VR players to not be [snip] about it.

Consider the low level players, let them get a few hits so they get credit for the dolmen too. Problem solved, everyone goes home happy.
;-)

That all depends how you look (or feel) about things.

One thing I want to make clear is I haven't tried to get this achievement, my comments on all of this started with the line "I suppose" and are purely thoughts on why people play like they do, and while I don't choose to play like it, I fully understand why people do and I don't judge them for them choosing how valuable their time is, it's not their fault how the game is designed and as has been said, a lot of players never got to do them on level due to the sheer number of players in low level areas at game release.

I personally do not like being power leveled at all. If I am doing a dungeon or a dolmen on level, I never want high levels helping me, it takes all the fun/challenge out if it.

So for me, if I was doing a dolmen on level, any vet player taking part will spoil my experience. Them healing me so I'm imortal or them letting me get a hit on the boss before they obliterate it would feel like zero accomplishment.

So from my point of view, the suggestions to be fair to non vet on level players are pointless as my challenge will still have been taken away.

And there's no solution with the current design, I either try at a different time and hope no vet players are around or my experience is ruined, there is no compromise to this.

There are other things wrong with dolmens, ever notice when you are fighting on level there's always one or two people doing zero fighting but hovering to get the pins.

Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.

That's why they shouldn't should either let you fail or succeed and do a light attack on the boss if it is one they need. I had done that many I knew by the announcement if I needed to sick around or not.

I would like to see players scaled down to the level of the zone, and give you a max +2 effective level over the zone level or something along those lines.

I came across my first Dolmen in game yesterday (but pure accident). I was alone running a lowly level 10 templer. I yelled in the zone chat for help and 3 wonder Vets turned up two mins later to assist me in clearing the dolmen. I would have loved to have bought them a drink for coming to help.

It's inevitable that there will always be some bad eggs in any game but from my experience so far the in game community of ESO is friendly and helpful

They sometimes spawn in the second wave, with some encouraging words from lovely Molag. He will tell you which of his generals he will send, and you'll regognize them on their nameplate, like world bosses or the "special" ones in caves.

I go to the dolmens that are below my level, hit one solid hit and then stand around waiting to see if anyone or the group gets into serious trouble at which point I will help.