Why I'm liking ESO and why I don't get all the hate.

Unmai · August 2014

I suspect I'm about to get a flaming but so be it...

I'm not really sure why everyone is hating on this game so much. Now I am a Elder Scrolls Fan, have been an avid fan since Morrowind but all I see on this forum is hate.

I don't understand why all those people who claim this isn't an MMO are still here. OK so it doesn't do this, doesn't have that feauture etc. If it is so bad then why are you playing ESO and not the "mythical" perfect MMO you are talking about.

ZOS set out to make an MMO that is different. I personally have so far loved what they have achieved. Is it perfect, absolutly not. Does it have issues to fix. Definitely but this isn't WOW, FFXIV or any other MMO. It is elder Scrolls Online.

I love the combat, the removing of simply number spamming. The in game combat feels authentic and as if your numbered moves are additional power moves with the mouse clicks working as standard attacks.

I love the feeling that I can just wander and explore. Most MMO's lead you down a path holding your hand, leading you from quest giver to the target and then back again. ESO genuinely feels like I'm out in the world on my own, having to find quest markers and goals myself, seeing things along the way. (I can't count the amount of times something has caught my attention and made me trek of course of my goal. (I spent 10 mins swimming around the Northern Island of Bleakrock just to see what was there).

I love the visual quality of the game, the atmosphere of the cities and landscapes just feel alive. I also like the way no where feels crowded. I used to log into FFXIV in a city and see nothing but PC's standing around on screen.

This game has a lot of good qualities going for it (many I haven't listed). Yes it has issues, I dislike the need for partying in some dungeons. I think some parts should just be to hard to run solo. This would also allow more more in game community which at the moment feels lacking. The classes are unbalanced is one of the big issues that keeps popping up. We all know this issue, ZOS knows this so why do people keep shouting about it rather than waiting and allowing ZOS to deal with the issues.

Overall this game is now WOW, FFVIX or any other MMO, it is also not Elder Scrolls VI. It is a merging of the two genres. Give ZOS the credit it deserves for creating the game it has so far. It is only 4 months old. FFXIV got completly scrapped after it's first release. Every MMO has severe issues upon release. ZOS are patching rapidly to resolve issues but they will ultimately work towards their final concept. Not yours, not mine but theirs. So rather than keep hating on it why not show some support since after all all your hating is proving is that you care about the game and want it to improve and if that's the case let's help ZOS give us the best game they can.

Chelos · August 2014

TANK YOU!
I was thinking about starting a thread like that myself.
I think the main reason why you see all the bad in the forums is:
When you like the game you just play it and are perfectly fine not being on the forum.

When you hate something about the game, you stop playing and need to get that out of your system. The forum is the place to go, especially to find like-minded people.

That's why I'm so weary of forum effects on developers.
In the end, what's on the forums will never be a valid reflection about how all the people playing will feel about the game, because the people who like it will just not post anything. They are the ones gaming.

Sharee · August 2014

The game is good, and has a big potential to become great. The reason why you see so much negativity here is simple - people who are happy are much less likely to come here and post, while unhappy and frustrated ones on the other hand come here to vent their frustration.

Forums are basically the complaint departement of MMO's.

Aett_Thorn · August 2014

Honestly, the game and the developers have their faults. That being said, I still love the game and know that it will improve, and I'm having fun playing it while it does so.

Crumpy · August 2014

I disagree. The game is breath-takingly underwhelming.

BBSooner · August 2014

Its ok if people don't like the game. That said, I've been having fun since beta, and still enjoying eso.

Chelos · August 2014

Crumpy wrote: »

I disagree. The game is breath-takingly underwhelming.

Your opinion is perfectly ok by me, but allow me the question: Why do you play it?
Your life time is too precious to waste it on something you don't really like.
(Sorry for getting philosophical)

SantieClaws · August 2014

I love the game, love playing it - it is a work in progress in some respects though - just as I would expect from an MMO only a few months old. Hoping for more solo options, less frustrating boss fights and more for crafters in the future. Hoping the champ system helps me along the way too. As with Morrowind I see this not as a game to play but as another life to live for as long as I can. Trading, crafting - maybe eventually housing. Maybe one day a little farm of my own where I can grow red wheat and brew skooma in the cellar.

brandon · August 2014

I agree with everything you said. Yes the game has bugs, but those will be ironed out as time goes on.

EinionYrth · August 2014

brandon wrote: »

I agree with everything you said. Yes the game has bugs, but those will be ironed out as time goes on.

It's an MMO, new bugs will be created to replace the ones that are fixed; this is normal.

brandon · August 2014

EinionYrth wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

I agree with everything you said. Yes the game has bugs, but those will be ironed out as time goes on.

It's an MMO, new bugs will be created to replace the ones that are fixed; this is normal.

I should've worded that better. I know that, but it's a cycle. Bugs will be removed and new ones will take their place. What I mean is that it will get better then what people think it is as of now.
@Einionyrth

Ragefist · August 2014

Indeed there is a difference between suggestions and bug reports and regular hate posts we see here. I am often tempted to troll those hate pots to be honest

Game has its flaws, every game does, massive multiplayer means massive ammounts of different opinions. But in my opinion the qualities outwight the flaws by alot.

Myself I even unsubbed at one point, when Craglorn was released and I couldnt do anything with my stamina build, but hey, as soon as it got fixed im back

Now I strongly suggest everyone watch the Quakecon presentation at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNVxn80j4g

That was really an eye opener, ZOS works on lots of different things simultaneously and some simply take months to flesh out. Little patience is fine with me.

The game is solid and has got a bright future ahead

yiasemi · August 2014

I complain when I like something, if I hated this game I wouldn't be here and wasting my free time. I loooove it. And you Ogriv. I'm sure under that ogreish name lies the heart of an ESO lover. Let it beat in time with all of us after a dolmen is vanquished, let's stare at the ceiling for a while en masse before whistling for our horses.

seaef · August 2014

Love the game and can't think of any other MMO I'm interested in playing.

The worst part of this game is the constant whining from other players.

Unmai · August 2014

I remember when Oblivion came out and people managed to find fault with it. One of the biggest gripes people had was that the game levelled with you so you were never out of your depth.

People will always find faults with any game as it will never satisfy everyone. i understand bugs are annoying and that things need fixing but what I'm more perplexed about is when people are complaining that the mechanics aren't more "traditional". If they want WOW style mechanics then they should play WOW. ESO never claimed to be developed that way and I'm hoping it never does. I agree there are aspects of other MMO's that I believe should be implemented but at only 4 months in it's a bit early to slating this game as a failure as some seem to be.

Also people saying ZOS don't listen or care. I have nothing but glowing praises for the two issues I have raised with ZOS support. Maybe if people were less aggresive in their critisism and more structured and informative about it ZOS would be more inclined to listen.

Personally I would love to see a weekly thread from the development team about bug fixing and the progress of the game.

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO · August 2014

Couldn't have said it better myself OP. This game is all I've wanted since playing morrowind myself! It's elder scrolls in an mmo world it doesn't get much better for me

Tapio75 · August 2014

Well, i like the game in many ways but it definitely does not feelenough of TES. I also dont remember them saying they are working on an MMO but on Elder Scrolls online which plays and feels much like traditional Elder Scrolls does.

Let me define what areas lack in TES factor

-Exploration. You really can not explore until you are about level 40. If you go explore as a new charcter, you pretty much die in hald way from your factions first town. You can not go to other factions areass at all until you are on VR levels. Exploration is severely limited by levels

-Quests. You are pretty muc forced to tunnel run through quest areas. Even if you go out of beaten path, you still hit the wall of level restriction by some overleveled monster that kills you. With new character, you have only one place to start questing, one road to wollow. You can not create a Nord and start your adventure from land of Skyrim.

-Choices. There are not really choices at all, just occasional kill or let live choices which have no consequence on your character. Just one time action that does nothing for your character. You can be Vampire or Werewolf, you can play a thief or assassin but in the end you are always that dogooder who helps everyone and who is praised by everyone in the world. There is no way whatsoever to become an evil character. There are no choices that really affect your character and affect how people think of you. All ypou can do is imagine that you are evil and at same time that guard wants to buy you a beer because you were so good and saved oh so many.

-Main story. There is only one way, one road ahead on this. You are train on a track without any intersections. Just a train from a to b. You can not, again.. Be evil and decide to side with Mannimarco or at least play to your own purse so to say.

-Combat. There are classes, they are all magick classes. You can not be true warrior at all. Yes, there is melee and bow skill line but every and each of them has something magickal on them that uses stamina like Sword and board reflect spell which really is wizards counter spell. You feel just like in any other MMO, you press quickbar buttons to activate stuff. While quickbar slots are good in this game in general, those melee and bow abilities should just stay focused on abilities that do not seem magickal at all. There is enough magick in classes.

Still, overall i mostly enjoy playing it. It does not feel much TES i known for me but at least it somewhat looks like TES. It is better than nothing but considering how few people ever really wanted an TES MMORPG, they could have taken the real sandbox route instead and leave general MMO crap out. Sure, Subs would have been less and updates less frequent but in the end, it is the traditional MMO folk that often demands constant updates while sandbox models have more to do inb general to keep player happu with less updates.

I play this because it looks like TES but heck, i would give just about anything to get it feel more like TES.

Venereous44 · August 2014

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

brandon · August 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Well, i like the game in many ways but it definitely does not feelenough of TES. I also dont remember them saying they are working on an MMO but on Elder Scrolls online which plays and feels much like traditional Elder Scrolls does.

Let me define what areas lack in TES factor

-Exploration. You really can not explore until you are about level 40. If you go explore as a new charcter, you pretty much die in hald way from your factions first town. You can not go to other factions areass at all until you are on VR levels. Exploration is severely limited by levels

-Quests. You are pretty muc forced to tunnel run through quest areas. Even if you go out of beaten path, you still hit the wall of level restriction by some overleveled monster that kills you. With new character, you have only one place to start questing, one road to wollow. You can not create a Nord and start your adventure from land of Skyrim.

-Choices. There are not really choices at all, just occasional kill or let live choices which have no consequence on your character. Just one time action that does nothing for your character. You can be Vampire or Werewolf, you can play a thief or assassin but in the end you are always that dogooder who helps everyone and who is praised by everyone in the world. There is no way whatsoever to become an evil character. There are no choices that really affect your character and affect how people think of you. All ypou can do is imagine that you are evil and at same time that guard wants to buy you a beer because you were so good and saved oh so many.

-Main story. There is only one way, one road ahead on this. You are train on a track without any intersections. Just a train from a to b. You can not, again.. Be evil and decide to side with Mannimarco or at least play to your own purse so to say.

-Combat. There are classes, they are all magick classes. You can not be true warrior at all. Yes, there is melee and bow skill line but every and each of them has something magickal on them that uses stamina like Sword and board reflect spell which really is wizards counter spell. You feel just like in any other MMO, you press quickbar buttons to activate stuff. While quickbar slots are good in this game in general, those melee and bow abilities should just stay focused on abilities that do not seem magickal at all. There is enough magick in classes.

Still, overall i mostly enjoy playing it. It does not feel much TES i known for me but at least it somewhat looks like TES. It is better than nothing but considering how few people ever really wanted an TES MMORPG, they could have taken the real sandbox route instead and leave general MMO crap out. Sure, Subs would have been less and updates less frequent but in the end, it is the traditional MMO folk that often demands constant updates while sandbox models have more to do inb general to keep player happu with less updates.

I play this because it looks like TES but heck, i would give just about anything to get it feel more like TES.

@Tapio75
I just want to say a few things.

1 Exploration: I agree that it does limit exploring slightly, but ZOS always said that this would be a combination of an mmo and a tes game.

2 Quests: Again same as my first point ^

3 Choices: When the Dark brotherhood and thieves guild get added, it will change. Who knows they might add consequences to some quests down the line. Oh and I have seen some quests that could be counted as a bad guy choice.

4 Main story: Outside of daggerfall I can't think of a choice in the main story of any tes game that had actual Impact. In oblivion you only could go down one path, sure you could recruit people from most of the cities, but that didn't do anything note worthy. Skyrim is the same way with picking the blades or the greybeards, that choice doesn't change a lot in the long run.

5 Combat: I agree with you on this.

I like the game as well. I feel that eventually this game will feel a lot more like tes.

Obscure · August 2014

Let's be clear, the true fans here are critical of ESO. Yes, that often comes off as hate, but it's not without objective justification. ZOS screwed up and persists to screw up and there's volumes of threads chronicling those screw ups. I really don't need to list them they are such common knowledge.

So you ask, why the hate? Why not go play something else? The utmost critical are the utmost passionate about ESO. They want it to be good so bad because they see the potential, they see what kind of amazing product it could be. The flaws are therefore magnified to them. It's like seeing a dent on a new Ferrari; it's more noticeably bad than a dent in an old Ford. Yeah, ESO is still a Ferrari by that analogy, it's just a really dinged up Ferrari with all sorts of problems running.

The hate you do see is for the dents, not for the Ferrari. The hate is for the flaws in an otherwise amazing product. A product with the most potential I've seen in an MMO. To see the developers squander the opportunity to make ESO as amazing as it could be at nearly every turn is infuriating to those who actually care. ESO as is, is a buggy, incomplete, and poorly optimized product. It's a joy to play despite that fact, and once it is relatively bug free, complete, and optimized, it will be the quality product we all want it to be.

Now some haters just want to see everything burn to the ground...ignore them. They're parents didn't hug them enough as children, so they vent at the internet because they don't have any friends. Yeah ESO's in rough shape and needs work, but even with the horrible bugs, stupid development decisions, and awful quality control on patches, here on these forums the general consensus is:

"ESO is entertaining, and if you disagree you can *** right off."

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

Nestor · August 2014

The main reason I play this game is the game is not WOW.

I have avoided MMO's for a long time. Each time I try one, it's a grind fest to accomplish most things. In this game, if you do the quests and follow the story, the levels take care of themselves. Even in the VR Content. The only time I grind in this game is to farm public dungeons and places like the Zombie Road for loot to deconstruct or research (eventually to sell). I never have to stop questing to go build up my character. The support roles, Crafting, can require some grinding or farming, but there are ways around that too.

Then there is the game world itself. I have never wanted to just stop and take in a view or a vista in other MMO's. I even find myself climbing up to places just so I can get a good view of the land. I can't wait to get to a new Zone just to see what it looks like. I also like going back to the Zones I have been in before just to look around.

Then there is the story, the characters, the plot. Sure, it's a little cookie cutter, but so are movies and TV. However, there is a story around every corner, just go look for them. Even if there is no quest or dialog about it, the clues are there.

And, finally, it's The Elder Scrolls. Enough said about that.

ndantony · August 2014

I hope ZoS also takes into consideration, too, the facts that there are lots of players enjoying the game and what ZoS has done so far, but they haven't or just don't use forum to express their thought. To me, ESO is the best p2p mmorpg game that I have so far.

I like what ZoS has done so far, and seems to committing to do, continuing making regular updates and improvements to ESO. I love Skyrim. And so the best, continuous and persistent online world, or mmo, version of Skyrim is this ESO, the closest one you can get at the moment.

True that there are still lots of things I want, namely player house and control pad support, like Skyrim, and still a lot more... But those are what I'm ok to give times, as I know ZoS is trying to get more info and understand their players base and preferences; and considering, too, this is online and in beta stage at the moment. Any wrong move could have an irreversible business consequence. There are lots of mmorpg out there that at first seem to start out right only turning into p2w games. Signs are everywhere, but their bottom lines and quick profits have convinced and blinded them.

When I bought and signed up this game, I'm already aware of what I'm getting; however, it's hard to tell ahead, as I have seen many mmorpg these days. It could be just that one day ZoS decided to listen to that some groups of very vocal players and implements a cash-shop that suddenly makes subbing no longer be enough to enjoy the game fully anymore.

The threshold toward that p2w is subtle, and it can creep up slowly. But the consequence is irreversible, even on business aspect; it's like an ailing company suddenly finds itself chasing after Wallstreet's non-stop quarterly projections. Some may defend it as pay-for-convenient, pay-for-advantage or pay-to-fast-forward, etc. Whatever, it is or variation of business model alike, savvy mmorpg players can quickly see it miles away. Granted, ZoS has been so far carefully enough not to make the same mistakes that many other mmorpg have done. I'm willing to invest in ESO as long as ZoS is moving in the right direction with the game. Also, a recent loyalty program announced was nice. I just love the game more and ZoS. I like to see ZoS continues with this program and gives more similar incentives in the future.

RSram · August 2014

One of the things that I would like to change in ESO is that the miscellaneous quests are too linear and rigid which stifles exploration; you have to found the quest giver first before the quest activates. So you kill a boss, or go into an empty cave, and then after finding the quest giver, you have to returns to those areas to complete the quest again. I know the main quests has to tell a story in a linear progression, but the miscellaneous quests shouldn't rely on finding the quest giver first. The public dungeons are really terrible in this regard where everyone gets out of sync if one of the party misses a quest giver inside or outside the dungeon.

There are a few dungeons that start a quest without a quest giver if you found an item or letter, but these were the exception rather than the norm.

Also, I don't want ESO to be a WOW clone, if I wanted a WOW clone, then why not just play WOW. I like the simplicity of ESO when compared to the other MMOG's.

raglau · August 2014

It's an enjoyable, but flawed, game. A work in progress, but all such games are.

yiasemi · August 2014

Nestor wrote: »

The main reason I play this game is the game is not WOW.

However, there is a story around every corner, just go look for them. Even if there is no quest or dialog about it, the clues are there.

And, finally, it's The Elder Scrolls. Enough said about that.

Absolutely, the depth and humour is there in that TALK command when you meet people. There is so much of it I am sometimes grateful for a simple dungeon monster crawl. Wonderful. Add the journals, books and lore, the overheard conversations that I still keep hearing for the first time, it's better than all the TES games so far. Sometimes I despair of the chargers after waypoints, but then I see unopened treasure chests in cities, in plain sight. And laugh (quietly).

Venereous44 · August 2014

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

zhevon · August 2014

There are things I really like about ESO; quests and talking to random NPCs for example.

However, there are huge numbers of longstanding bugs and some quality of life issues that need to be dealt with and large numbers of people are getting very frustrated when "fixes" happen and they don't work or break something else. Often stuff gets nerf'd when what really needed to happen is other stuff needs to get fixed (and then see what happens). After 6 months ALL skills should be working consistently.

Venereous44 · August 2014

Venereous44 wrote: »

montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »

Venereous44 wrote: »

I'm loving this game a lot. But there is still nothing out there that can compare to the sophistication of WOW. I can no longer play WoW because my hands can't take mouse and keyboard play any more... so its short attention span theater games with limited controls that I can assign to a controller and ESO fits the bill perfectly.

This mad me laugh, not taking a *** at you or anything but Wow sophisticated??? Dude come on it's pretty much the casual go to game right now.

LOL... you must never have played it... you can literally have hundreds of commands as I did... everything is to the next level... just the chat in WOW had more commands than the entire game of ESO... its easily as sophisticated as an OS. Your comment just shows your own lack of sophistication as there is no other game in the world that even comes close. You say its casual? Why, cause its been around forever and still nothing comes close to being that successful?

Also the play itself was leaps and bounds ahead of anything out there now even still, including ESO. The easiest dungeon in WOW was way more sophisticated in play than anything in ESO.

Unmai · August 2014

@Tapio75 Referncing this bit "You can not create a Nord and start your adventure from land of Skyrim" the version I got (exploreers pack I think it's called) allows all races in any alliance.

I have to say one of the things I do hope they implement from other MMO's is joint party quest completion. Partying up with someone to clear a zone quicker is great fun and a great way to make friends but when both parties have to hit every quest marker it becomes tedious. @RSram mentioned this aspect also.

Thank you everyone. It's nice to see some love for the game getting shown and makes the constructive criticism more relevant when placed along side what people like about ESO. ZOS have a hard task ahead with crafting an MMO with the Elder Scrolls feel that we all love. Things will have to be dropped from both genres but ultimately I believe we will have a truly great game at the end of it.

yiasemi · August 2014

We've been saying that about society in RL since the Year dot. It'll never be consistent for everyone, all the time. But yeah, I moan too. Specific topics. We must. I read too many ZOS statements about ingame probs being fixed which are untrue. Corporate need for solutions doesn't match reality. Only we consumers seem able to tell the managers in ZOS um no, you ain't fixed it yet.