Don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

Hadn't heard about the dev plans for vanity pets to be migrated out of inventory. If that's true then that's awesome.

They should also include the other items like trophies and such. Hopefully they will.

Someone asked what's in my Bank?

My bank is currently lvl 2? With 80 slots. The only items in there are crafting items. Lots for provisioning and cooking.

Lots of everything else.

I currently have 4 characters all under 20. The 4th was specifically made to be a mule.

My main has 2k gold atm

So I'm not rolling in cash and the 5k for the next upgrade seems a bit far atm.

The way I like to play is at odds I guess with the way the game is designed.

I enjoy crafting (normally) and I normally have several toons. As I play on each, I harvest what I can when I pass it. I also like to pass loot to other toons that could use it as I lvl them up.

The problem with this game is that everything can be picked up by any toon. I hate passing something I know my alt will need, whether its ore or flowers.

I quickly filled my bank with crafting mats on the first day of play lol

This wouldn't be as bad if it was easier to transfer items to alts like using the mail system, which I utilize in other games like LOTRO. But here it requires logging in and out repeatedly. Doable but it's a hassle to be sure.

It's also irritating to have items I'd like to keep like pets and maps and such take up what's for me atm, very valuable space.

I don't mind making alts to actually "do" different crafts. That makes sense imo

But I hate that I'm having to use character slots to simply make extra space.

I'd really like to hear from the Devs about how they themselves handle this issue when trying to cover several or all the crafts. Especially early on when space and money is so limited.

Maybe they simply didn't want a single player doing all the crafts...

All I know is in 20 plus yrs of mmo gaming I've never had an issue with inventory management like I have here nor have I had to use as much time in trying to figure out ways around the hurdles that seem intent on making it as difficult as possible to enjoy the crafting experience.

I'm really trying to enjoy the game. I happily pay to play. But some aspects are feeling quite tedious more than enjoyable.

And if I'm feeling that way I'm sure there are others .

And that's a problem for a game that relies on subs to survive.

Imo

ESO, we have to talk ... I need more space.

If they want to give me something for being subscribed to the game, then great. I like free stuff, who doesn't. I will say that I play the game because of the game, as it's mostly an awesome game.

However, I would be so much happier if they gave me bag slots instead of something that takes up bag space. Then I would remove the qualifier from my opinion of the game.

I was trying to mix concern with a bit of humor and a dash of sarcasm.

It may not of worked exactly as intended...but hopefully gets the point across and raises awareness and discussion.

So perhaps it is working correctly

twev wrote: »

It seems that some people (and the person who coined the trite phrase) think that it's better to receive a 'gift' regardless of what the gift will cost you in the end, than it is to make an informed decision possibly resulting in declining the gift.

This has nothing to do with the receiver of the gift, but the impact on the giver.

It's more that it's an insult to evaluate a gift for financial viability than anything else. In some cultures, it's a mortal insult to turn down a gift. Sure, not all gifts are worth keeping, but one should consider the context under which the gift is given.

In most cases, it is better in the long run to accept the gift and get rid of it later if you don't want it. In other cases, a polite refusal without evaluation is the better route, as in "Thank you for the thought, but I already have one of these, perhaps you know someone who might need this more than I do".

However,If you insult someone today that tries to do something nice for you, you dramatically diminish the chance that they will do something nice for you in the future. That's more the moral of the story than anything else.

Roland44 wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

I don't care if they take up inventory space or not, I don't want them. Vanity pets serve no purpose for me, and I'd much rather have some other kind of reward, if Zenimax is set on giving out loyalty rewards.

On the flip side, I could care less if Zenimax said, "No more loyalty program at all."
I don't play for a reward. Well, beyond what I currently get out of the game.

I agree.

My whole point is to let the Dev's know that this "reward" to many will be nothing but an added burden in the "let's make the players make alts and spend game time having to log in/out/in/out to transfer items to designated alts...oh let's throw some vanity gear on top of that why don't we"

lol

The current system is anything but user/player friendly, and adding more items that do nothing but exacerbate the issue, in the name of rewarding players, does nothing but compound the problem for many.

Totally agree, we need a non-inventory space to store trophies and pets and the like.

Roland44 wrote: »

And what we really need is for "all" Trophies, Pets, Treasure Maps to all be Account bound and not be taking up very precious Inventory Space! (Rift is a perfect example of how to do this btw)

I appreciate the gifts, and I value my limited inventory space.

Simple Solution: In Inventory, add a Trophies/Gifts section that behaves like the Quest Items section.

Note: I think Treasure Maps should count in Inventory because they are useful.

Raeina wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

To respond to a few of the actual points raised:

1. ZO owes you access to the game they made. That's it. If you don't like the game, no one is making you pay for it. So don't play.


Attitudes like the ones on display in this thread are exactly why we can't have nice things. If ZO offers other players a dog during a special sale, the forums explode. When they offer a loyalty program to give out special gimmicks like pets, players still act like the girls on My Super-Sweet 16 when they don't get the right color of BMW. Don't like/want the free pet? Too bad. Maybe you'll like the next one. That's life.

This is a really immature way to respond to people with legitimate complaints. People are allowed to be critical of a service they pay for. Are they entitled to more? Ofc not, but they are absolutely allowed to have complaints. If all the people you would tell to quit actually did, well, hope you're ok with f2p mmos.

They are adding a loyalty program exactly for that. Devs love their games but the people who pay them love profit. This isn't some fluffy way for them to tell you they love you, it's a way to hopefully keep people subbed even if content isn't coming out atm. This games entire lifeforce is based on keeping a solid playerbase. You lose players, you start seeing content cuts, you start seeing micro-transactions, and eventually if that can't sustain it you see f2p models.

So no, telling people to 'adapt or quit' or that they 'whine about everything' is not what you do if you truly love a game. You need to take everyone's opinions into consideration and accept that people want different things, and while not all their points are legit SOME of them are.

I personally love pets. I'm a huge pet collector in other games but don't bother in this one because yes, my bank is filled to the brim and no, I don't want to have to switch to a mule to shift mats around when I want to craft.

You really need to chill with your overzealous attitude because all those entitled brats you tell to suck it up or quit are what's keeping this game from being a f2p mess.

I can't disagree more strongly.

The entitled brats you refer to are a very vocal minority on the forums any time something doesn't go their way. The vast majority of players never hear about some of the "issues" raised here, much less feel that they are severe enough to warrant quitting.

You know what most people do with a subscription-based game? They play it. If they don't like it, they don't subscribe. Period.

Fleymark wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

twev wrote: »

It seems that some people (and the person who coined the trite phrase) think that it's better to receive a 'gift' regardless of what the gift will cost you in the end, than it is to make an informed decision possibly resulting in declining the gift.

This has nothing to do with the receiver of the gift, but the impact on the giver.

It's more that it's an insult to evaluate a gift for financial viability than anything else. In some cultures, it's a mortal insult to turn down a gift. Sure, not all gifts are worth keeping, but one should consider the context under which the gift is given.

In most cases, it is better in the long run to accept the gift and get rid of it later if you don't want it. In other cases, a polite refusal without evaluation is the better route, as in "Thank you for the thought, but I already have one of these, perhaps you know someone who might need this more than I do".

However,If you insult someone today that tries to do something nice for you, you dramatically diminish the chance that they will do something nice for you in the future. That's more the moral of the story than anything else.

I think some of us are getting a bit far afield with this whole "gift" thing.And we need to reel this in a tad before this gets even more absurd...

It's not a "gift" in the true sense of the word. In fact, it's not a "gift" at all. MMOs have been doing loyalty programs for well over a decade. People asked for something like that here and a pet is what they came up with. It's an incentive for continued subscribing something that works more in their favor than it does ours and something they depend on for a livelihood rather than entertainment, as it is for us. It's not something they are just doing out of the goodness of their hearts. And once it's designed and implemented, it costs them nothing. And in the grand scheme of loyalty program rewards in games across the board it, frankly, is par but nothing special.

So while, for the record, I'm only in this discussion because of the inventory issue involved, may we please dispense with the notion that anyone is dissing someone offering them a "gift." It's a massive company doing it on top of the other fluff that they are doing instead of addressing the significant core issues with the game as an incentive to subscribe for periods of time. For those in the cheap seats, that means send them money month after month. And let's also dispense with the notion that they are hand delivering a box of cigars, a bottle of 25 year old scotch, and a couple of virgins and someone is being insulted by someone questioning it.

It's ridiculous. Sometimes I seriously have to wonder what's in the water around here.

It's not a gift?

Then they must be charging us for it... oh, hang on. No. That's not it. Well then, they must be asking for something in return... no. Well, that's just the darndest thing. It's almost like they're giving players something for free. With no expectation of anything in return. Well, I don't know about these "gift" things, but that sounds pretty neat to me.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

twev wrote: »

It seems that some people (and the person who coined the trite phrase) think that it's better to receive a 'gift' regardless of what the gift will cost you in the end, than it is to make an informed decision possibly resulting in declining the gift.

This has nothing to do with the receiver of the gift, but the impact on the giver.

It's more that it's an insult to evaluate a gift for financial viability than anything else. In some cultures, it's a mortal insult to turn down a gift. Sure, not all gifts are worth keeping, but one should consider the context under which the gift is given.

In most cases, it is better in the long run to accept the gift and get rid of it later if you don't want it. In other cases, a polite refusal without evaluation is the better route, as in "Thank you for the thought, but I already have one of these, perhaps you know someone who might need this more than I do".

However,If you insult someone today that tries to do something nice for you, you dramatically diminish the chance that they will do something nice for you in the future. That's more the moral of the story than anything else.

I think some of us are getting a bit far afield with this whole "gift" thing.And we need to reel this in a tad before this gets even more absurd...

It's not a "gift" in the true sense of the word. In fact, it's not a "gift" at all. MMOs have been doing loyalty programs for well over a decade. People asked for something like that here and a pet is what they came up with. It's an incentive for continued subscribing something that works more in their favor than it does ours and something they depend on for a livelihood rather than entertainment, as it is for us. It's not something they are just doing out of the goodness of their hearts. And once it's designed and implemented, it costs them nothing. And in the grand scheme of loyalty program rewards in games across the board it, frankly, is par but nothing special.

So while, for the record, I'm only in this discussion because of the inventory issue involved, may we please dispense with the notion that anyone is dissing someone offering them a "gift." It's a massive company doing it on top of the other fluff that they are doing instead of addressing the significant core issues with the game as an incentive to subscribe for periods of time. For those in the cheap seats, that means send them money month after month. And let's also dispense with the notion that they are hand delivering a box of cigars, a bottle of 25 year old scotch, and a couple of virgins and someone is being insulted by someone questioning it.

It's ridiculous. Sometimes I seriously have to wonder what's in the water around here.

It's not a gift?

Then they must be charging us for it... oh, hang on. No. That's not it. Well then, they must be asking for something in return... no. Well, that's just the darndest thing. It's almost like they're giving players something for free. With no expectation of anything in return. Well, I don't know about these "gift" things, but that sounds pretty neat to me.

One must wonder if they are actually allowing you to play this game for free.


Zen is not doing me any favor , they arent giving me anything for free.

They are doing their job , a job for which i and apparently many others here pay for each and every month for them to perform.

A job that they more often than they should perform poorly.

So yes , people have a lot of valid complains because we PAY for this and expect them to deliver , doesnt matter how many times you talk and pretend we dont.

Their job is to provide us with the game we pay for. Not to give us free stuff for continuing to play it.

I'm not saying they're saints, or that this is an altruistic action, but giving us something for free is the very definition of a gift.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

twev wrote: »

It seems that some people (and the person who coined the trite phrase) think that it's better to receive a 'gift' regardless of what the gift will cost you in the end, than it is to make an informed decision possibly resulting in declining the gift.

This has nothing to do with the receiver of the gift, but the impact on the giver.

It's more that it's an insult to evaluate a gift for financial viability than anything else. In some cultures, it's a mortal insult to turn down a gift. Sure, not all gifts are worth keeping, but one should consider the context under which the gift is given.

In most cases, it is better in the long run to accept the gift and get rid of it later if you don't want it. In other cases, a polite refusal without evaluation is the better route, as in "Thank you for the thought, but I already have one of these, perhaps you know someone who might need this more than I do".

However,If you insult someone today that tries to do something nice for you, you dramatically diminish the chance that they will do something nice for you in the future. That's more the moral of the story than anything else.

I think some of us are getting a bit far afield with this whole "gift" thing.And we need to reel this in a tad before this gets even more absurd...

It's not a "gift" in the true sense of the word. In fact, it's not a "gift" at all. MMOs have been doing loyalty programs for well over a decade. People asked for something like that here and a pet is what they came up with. It's an incentive for continued subscribing something that works more in their favor than it does ours and something they depend on for a livelihood rather than entertainment, as it is for us. It's not something they are just doing out of the goodness of their hearts. And once it's designed and implemented, it costs them nothing. And in the grand scheme of loyalty program rewards in games across the board it, frankly, is par but nothing special.

So while, for the record, I'm only in this discussion because of the inventory issue involved, may we please dispense with the notion that anyone is dissing someone offering them a "gift." It's a massive company doing it on top of the other fluff that they are doing instead of addressing the significant core issues with the game as an incentive to subscribe for periods of time. For those in the cheap seats, that means send them money month after month. And let's also dispense with the notion that they are hand delivering a box of cigars, a bottle of 25 year old scotch, and a couple of virgins and someone is being insulted by someone questioning it.

It's ridiculous. Sometimes I seriously have to wonder what's in the water around here.

It's not a gift?

Then they must be charging us for it... oh, hang on. No. That's not it. Well then, they must be asking for something in return... no. Well, that's just the darndest thing. It's almost like they're giving players something for free. With no expectation of anything in return. Well, I don't know about these "gift" things, but that sounds pretty neat to me.

Learn to read. I've already explained how an incentive program isn't the same as a gift.

Of course they're asking for something in return. You get the pet for sustained monthly subscription payments. Get a grip.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

twev wrote: »

It seems that some people (and the person who coined the trite phrase) think that it's better to receive a 'gift' regardless of what the gift will cost you in the end, than it is to make an informed decision possibly resulting in declining the gift.

This has nothing to do with the receiver of the gift, but the impact on the giver.

It's more that it's an insult to evaluate a gift for financial viability than anything else. In some cultures, it's a mortal insult to turn down a gift. Sure, not all gifts are worth keeping, but one should consider the context under which the gift is given.

In most cases, it is better in the long run to accept the gift and get rid of it later if you don't want it. In other cases, a polite refusal without evaluation is the better route, as in "Thank you for the thought, but I already have one of these, perhaps you know someone who might need this more than I do".

However,If you insult someone today that tries to do something nice for you, you dramatically diminish the chance that they will do something nice for you in the future. That's more the moral of the story than anything else.

I think some of us are getting a bit far afield with this whole "gift" thing.And we need to reel this in a tad before this gets even more absurd...

It's not a "gift" in the true sense of the word. In fact, it's not a "gift" at all. MMOs have been doing loyalty programs for well over a decade. People asked for something like that here and a pet is what they came up with. It's an incentive for continued subscribing something that works more in their favor than it does ours and something they depend on for a livelihood rather than entertainment, as it is for us. It's not something they are just doing out of the goodness of their hearts. And once it's designed and implemented, it costs them nothing. And in the grand scheme of loyalty program rewards in games across the board it, frankly, is par but nothing special.

So while, for the record, I'm only in this discussion because of the inventory issue involved, may we please dispense with the notion that anyone is dissing someone offering them a "gift." It's a massive company doing it on top of the other fluff that they are doing instead of addressing the significant core issues with the game as an incentive to subscribe for periods of time. For those in the cheap seats, that means send them money month after month. And let's also dispense with the notion that they are hand delivering a box of cigars, a bottle of 25 year old scotch, and a couple of virgins and someone is being insulted by someone questioning it.

It's ridiculous. Sometimes I seriously have to wonder what's in the water around here.

It's not a gift?

Then they must be charging us for it... oh, hang on. No. That's not it. Well then, they must be asking for something in return... no. Well, that's just the darndest thing. It's almost like they're giving players something for free. With no expectation of anything in return. Well, I don't know about these "gift" things, but that sounds pretty neat to me.

I would suggest ZoS makes ESO a f2p game... but players need to pay a little for every quest... but ZoS would also provide incentive that if a player has spent $5000 in real dollars in a month, they would get a monkey as a pet walking around with you; and if you has spent $10000 you would get a crab sitting on your head as a gift... (maybe $20000+ you would get some dog's sh!$ stain on your clothe?!) I think that would be awesome. It's true, more players are more appreciative when companies treat them like that, versus to what ZoS is doing right now. I see it in p2w games all the time.

LOL

Marcusstratus wrote: »

Roland44 wrote: »

That's pretty much it.

I'd rather have an extra storage space anywhere bag/bank for each 3 months I play the game lol

And what we really need is for "all" Trophies, Pets, Treasure Maps to all be Account bound and not be taking up very precious Inventory Space!

But thanks for the kind thoughts and well wishes and the desire to reward us for our patronage.

I completely agree. For a few seconds I was really excited about the prospect of the new pet, then I realized it would take up inventory space and suddenly it felt like a burden rather than a real gift. Honestly this is rather like giving a bald person a fancy hairbrush. It would be great if we actually had space for it. I know some people don't have a problem with space and that's great for them, but it's an indisputable fact that many players find it extremely inadequate. Honestly I would be So Elated if more space was being announced. I would literally be jumping around, hugging my computer, and possibly crying tears of joy and relief, my gratitude would be endless. I really do appreciate the gesture, it's a lovely idea, very nice but... the last thing I need is something else taking up precious inventory space. Just like all the other trophies that I long to keep.... it's just going to end up in the bin to make way for the necessary things. ....and that really takes the fun out of the game you know?

Basically what's going on with the inventory issue is we're given all the ingredients for a gourmet meal, and then told we can only use 2 of them.... well there goes the spices, the sauces, the side dishes, the garnishes, I guess it's just plain chicken and plain potatoes tonight. Of course you could always pick the garlic and the marsala sauce, but that's not really satisfying either.

Totally.

Then consider this, the thought that always helps me keep this inventory stupidity in its proper perspective...They seem to have full-bore committed themselves to exactly two absolutes in the design of this game...That we must have have the worst inventory system ever seen in an MMO and that there not be anything close to a healthy player economy....But everything else is on the table for anything.

Seriously, it's easier to kill the boss of the game solo than it is to manage your inventory. The whole game is stupid easy, and gets more so every patch, yet the challenge is found in storage and recipe collection. Lol

ndantony wrote: »

I would suggest ZoS makes ESO a f2p game... but players need to pay a little for every quest... but ZoS would also provide incentive that if a player has spent $5000 in real dollars in a month, they would get a monkey as a pet walking around with you; and if you has spent $10000 you would get a crab sitting on your head as a gift... (maybe $20000+ you would get some dog's sh!$ stain on your clothe?!) I think that would be awesome. It's true, more players are more appreciative when companies treat them like that, versus to what ZoS is doing right now. I see it in p2w games all the time.

LOL

Hmmmm, did you *pay* Wartune by any chance? LOL Thousands pumped in monthly by players, EVERY monthly event centered around making you buy more and to top it off a CEO who states their games are made to rake dumb whales of their $$......yeah, I hope to Talos that never happens with ESO.