Vatter wrote: »

Bolt should have the stun or disorient (whichever it is) removed. it should only be a retreating tactic.

So now Sorcs shall be nerfed AGAIN because they play together with other classes and all use their abilities in a way all profit? LOOOOOOOOL

That is THE most dumbest reasoning for a nerf I EVER heard!

Let me translate into plain English what you are just saying here: "Zenimax please nerf Bolt Escape AGAIN, because I and many other players are to skillless to counter our enemies tactics! Please, Zenimax, pleeeaaasssseeee!!!!"

I would like to know what class you are playing, so I can give you a more detailed answer.

And I have a question: Why is it that people who are crying for nerfs of other classes, never have a signature with their name, class, and server? Are you people afraid of consequences ingame? Poor kids ...

I guess I'd be ok with a change to BE as in

lower the cost if used again within 4 seconds to 25% more magicka.... but then make the increase stack until it's had that 4 seconds from it's last use.

1st use would be normal, second 125% of cost... third would be another 25% increase etc.

spamming it over and over and over would then get really expensive really fast, but you could use it 2-3 times and it would be a little cheaper than it is now.

No decent sorc's main form of attack is streak + impulse, unless you're talking about zerg balls. In which case I have to ask why your zerg can't hold block and focus fire if it's individual sorcs. Or if it's a zerg of sorcs where is your zerg's shatter play so you guys can break up, keep them from building ult off your blob and mitigate their negate spam?

Before you bring up 'I can't target them cuz clouding swarm', that's a balance problem with clouding swarm, not sorcs.

@skwornub18_ESO‌
You cannot resist streak? Would a macro to hold your block button help?

If everyone in a zerg is going to bunch up and not hold block or use immovable, they completely deserve whatever CC punishment their enemies throw their way, streak or no. Do you complain when DKs invasion in, spam talons, impulse and drop banners on these same nonblocking zerglings as well (a la Permy)?

Kirsika wrote: »

@skwornub18_ESO‌
Do you complain when DKs invasion in, spam talons, impulse and drop banners on these same nonblocking zerglings as well (a la Permy)?

At least those have caps.

Kirsika wrote: »

@skwornub18_ESO‌
You cannot resist streak? Would a macro to hold your block button help?

If everyone in a zerg is going to bunch up and not hold block or use immovable, they completely deserve whatever CC punishment their enemies throw their way, streak or no. Do you complain when DKs invasion in, spam talons, impulse and drop banners on these same nonblocking zerglings as well (a la Permy)?

Forget the stun, the streak building the ultimate to fire the invisibility of the bats so you can DPS the hell out of the clump you just buzzed through is the real meat of the build.

Streak and then bats+impulse is completely viable and quite lethal. A little too lethal really, considering EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER is switching to it. Obviously something about it is screaming OP AS HELL.

Else people wouldnt be moving to the build in droves.

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Bolt should have the stun or disorient (whichever it is) removed. it should only be a retreating tactic. Not an offensive tool to drain you of stamina and make way for a dk spamming talons and a gaggle of vamps behind him spamming impulse and bats.
WOW. did I just solve the blob warfare?

Hey, let's just remove all cc that sorcs have and let them be an AP pinata, sounds good mate.

So defensive M.........How about a hug!

but.......

I'm convinced and I've had a change of heart. I created a sorc a few weeks ago who is a light/destro and sword and board vampire with accents of impulse and bats coupled with the shield knockdown and streak. Blows my temp out of the water. v3 and I haven't died a single time yet in pve. I was promised to be able to play how I wanted to. obviously that was a lie. So I'm gonna play the flavor of the month just like everyone else until my sub ends. Look for me on the pvp field soon. I'll be the super face melting in literally 2 seconds macro cowboy. ESO FTW!

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Kirsika wrote: »

@skwornub18_ESO‌
You cannot resist streak? Would a macro to hold your block button help?

If everyone in a zerg is going to bunch up and not hold block or use immovable, they completely deserve whatever CC punishment their enemies throw their way, streak or no. Do you complain when DKs invasion in, spam talons, impulse and drop banners on these same nonblocking zerglings as well (a la Permy)?

Forget the stun, the streak building the ultimate to fire the invisibility of the bats so you can DPS the hell out of the clump you just buzzed through is the real meat of the build.

Streak and then bats+impulse is completely viable and quite lethal.

Against bad zergs.

1-2 sorcs doing this to an organized group either get pretty much ignored or wtfstomped

You see that is just it, there are no groups I see in this game right now that I could consider "that pro" as it were.

Whenever we go out in the field, everything dies. The good, the bad, the ugly. You kill them on yours, I kill them on mine (though we will never get to work together as sorcs, sadly, though my DK or Temp and your Sorc are pretty lethal O_o)

Its been a long time since ive seen a fight where the outcome wasnt at least 1-1 k/d, and its normally over 5-1 with the builds we run. So defining good vs bad or pug vs organized gets difficult because no matter how "organized" a group is, there are still going to be more pro and less pro people in them.

There is no hard counter to streak currently. People say block, but everyone in this thread knows that doesnt work most of the time since a sorc can just chain streak and/or get the jump and start the chain before anyone is even blocking.

Once it starts, the cycle never really stops, especially with multiple streakers.

Hell most of the time our groups have wiped there was an obvious prelude double streak right before the bomb dropped. And no one is immune, ive seen every group in this game either use it to wreck us, or us use it to wreck them.

Unless youre saying EVERYONE is a bad zerg.

I don't know. In my campaign there's usually about 5 enemy sorcerers in every large battle spamming bolt escape to get into a group of my side, then they use clouding swarm and can't be targetted. If they're successful and kill a few people (works well against new/bad players who don't even see nor understand what's going on) they'll bolt escape and do bat swarm again, if they haven't generated enough ultimate (combat frenzy lv 2 helps a lot) they just spam bolt escape a few times again to get back to their people. Most of them never even get as much as a scratch, because they have damage shields of 800 or more points stacked with the annulment buff so they take only half damage (less if they block).

There's a few things that are really broken in PvP right now:

1. AoE caps: AoE caps make zergballing the dominant strategy. Enemy zergballs can only be defeated by doing your own zergballs. Once zergballing has started, all sides are forced to do it or they lose. This makes PvP extremely stupid and boring.
2. Stacking of damage shield effects + annulment buff: Most of the "pro" PvP players I encounter will only ever take half damage from my attacks. Less if they are blocking. There are players you never see running around with less than 1000 points of damage shield (and they're not using barrier). This cannot be intended. (And I won't even mention how so many strategies for trials in PvE relied entirely on the obviously unintended stacking of several barrier buffs).
3. Stacking of heals: A single character can regain unlimited amounts of health per tick. So the only way you could ever kill a character in a group that is spamming heals is by doing at least as much damage as the character has max health in a single tick. This is only possible by stacking lots of damage ultimates, regular skills + synergies (and siege weapons) which, again, will typically only happen when groups are zergballing.
4. Regaining ultimate out of combat: Heals allow people to quickly regain ultimate out of combat. This gives spell-crit builds with resto staff a huge advantage over everyone else.
5. CC immunity: It's not working.
6. Breaking free from CC effects: In many situations it doesn't work either.
7. Skill balance: Some skills like Bolt Escape, Clouding Swarm, and Mist Form are obviously too strong, others like Volley are obviously too weak. Werewolves are entirely useless.

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't know. In my campaign there's usually about 5 enemy sorcerers in every large battle spamming bolt escape to get into a group of my side, then they use clouding swarm and can't be targetted. If they're successful and kill a few people (works well against new/bad players who don't even see nor understand what's going on) they'll bolt escape and do bat swarm again, if they haven't generated enough ultimate (combat frenzy lv 2 helps a lot) they just spam bolt escape a few times again to get back to their people. Most of them never even get as much as a scratch, because they have damage shields of 800 or more points stacked with the annulment buff so they take only half damage (less if they block).

There's a few things that are really broken in PvP right now:

1. AoE caps: AoE caps make zergballing the dominant strategy. Enemy zergballs can only be defeated by doing your own zergballs. Once zergballing has started, all sides are forced to do it or they lose. This makes PvP extremely stupid and boring.
2. Stacking of damage shield effects + annulment buff: Most of the "pro" PvP players I encounter will only ever take half damage from my attacks. Less if they are blocking. There are players you never see running around with less than 1000 points of damage shield (and they're not using barrier). This cannot be intended. (And I won't even mention how so many strategies for trials in PvE relied entirely on the obviously unintended stacking of several barrier buffs).
3. Stacking of heals: A single character can regain unlimited amounts of health per tick. So the only way you could ever kill a character in a group that is spamming heals is by doing at least as much damage as the character has max health in a single tick. This is only possible by stacking lots of damage ultimates, regular skills + synergies (and siege weapons) which, again, will typically only happen when groups are zergballing.
4. Regaining ultimate out of combat: Heals allow people to quickly regain ultimate out of combat. This gives spell-crit builds with resto staff a huge advantage over everyone else.
5. CC immunity: It's not working.
6. Breaking free from CC effects: In many situations it doesn't work either.
7. Skill balance: Some skills like Bolt Escape, Clouding Swarm, and Mist Form are obviously too strong, others like Volley are obviously too weak. Werewolves are entirely useless.

Couple of things on this ....

Without Clouding Swarm those Sorc are screwed if they Bolt Escape too far into your group. Clouding Swarm is a real issue because you become untargetable.

Damage shield of 800 plus Annulment gets eaten up REAL quick especially with melee dmg. Also, blocking does not affect you at all with a dmg shield up. It is actually detrimental because your shield will still take full dmg and you will lose stamina for blocking.

griszax wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@zac_sooleprb18_ESO‌, I see your point. Sorcerers never have skills that consume resources yet don't function properly.

And turning completely invisible multiple times would never be considered an escape method? You get far enough away, you go back into sneak, and you have fully and effectively disappeared.

We had this happen yesterday when one snuck into a keep. Three of us were playing ring-around-the-rosy in an alcove like a bunch of idiots trying to catch the glimpses in between his ethereal escapades. Had he turned right once instead of left, he would have been gone.

The skills not firing off properly isn't a NB thing, right now it's an ESO thing.

Been there, died from that.

Honestly all you had to do was use an AoE stun/root and it would have knocked the poor nightblade right out of stealth. It really is that easy and it's not nearly as powerful as you describe.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

I would agree if what you said about magicka was true, truth if speced right BE can and is be cast with little to no risk of running out of magicka. Actually make it so BE does in fact result in risking a magicka drain and it would be fine having seen numerous offensive spam BE's, one fight where I personally spent almost 5 minutes in continuous combat using the templar's charge where the sorc continuously spammed BE never showing signs of it causing magicka issues.

Of course they could also change charge so when the sorc BE's I don't have to re-target so I can charge again, this would then be on parity where a sorc can BE and spam a spell for dps and not have to re-target. That would be balance as well.

Now I could of just stayed defensive then the fight would have lasted forever. That I guess is balance to but seems pointless.

Can you give me the name of the Sorc that kept BE up for 5 minutes, because soft capped on magicka regen and 100 points of the magicka soft-cap, I can get 5 casts out of it. That's full magicka to empty.

It's awesome skill don't get me wrong, but no-one can keep it up for that long (that's what she said). I'm guessing he times it and does it every 4 secs or he uses pots, or both.

The math simply doesn't add up here. First cast is expensive, second in 4 seconds costs 50% more, and Magicka regen is reduced for a period after first cast - multiple casts continue this.

And @skwornub18_ESO, why wouldn't you have to retarget? I have to retarget if you move significantly? They're not all AoE. We have to aim too.

Plus, if they're BE'ing for 5 minutes, they're not casting other spells. Why weren't you doing damage during the pauses?

How did this ultimately end?

If you could BE on end, Sorc's would still be using it for transit in place of the horse. Such is no longer the case.

I can confirm that bolt escape can pretty much negate the need for horses in Cyrodiil. I have a Breton sorcerer vampire. In all light armor with the racial passives from Breton and the passives from vampire and the passives from light armor along with the warlock set and decent food he can bolt escape right across the map with only very short pauses for magicka regen. Most of the time I just drink potions if I want to get a couple more out. It's really not that difficult to achieve. The bonus to all of this of course is that the more magicka you have the harder your spells hit so there really isn't any downside to going this route.

Lol to this. If You really use BE to travel I don't know what to add here You want to tell me You are sorc that waste whole his mana , potions to travel ?

I don't know where to start. Maybe let's start with the fact that after 6-7 casts sorcerer is already OOM ( 2 more casts with warlock set). Thats with warlock + seducer and 2.5 k mana. I would say it's fair trade off to be ABLE to run from fight with wasting Your whole mana resources and leaving You without any defense.

That ability doesn't give You some kind of God mode. Stop trying to nerf it even more because first nerf only hit people that used this ability in combat .

Harness magicka , dark exchange , pots will always allow for sorcerers to use this ability to run from fight.

Every class got their unique abilities. On my sorc I have to deal with dk's spamming reflect that leave me without most of my damaging skills, nb's 2-3 shotting people from stealth, templars spamming blazing shield. I have to make tactics to counter their skills and so should You with the sorcerers using BE.

If that skill worries You so much maybe You should also reroll to sorc and just run after them ?:)

I never said Bolt Escape should be nerfed. Yeah you can travel with Bolt Escape. Magicka doesn't exactly take that long to regen. I don't know why this bothers you so much, but yes I have been able to keep up with groups on horse back by using Bolt Escape intermittently.

Please spread out.

L2P eh?

As I recall that's what those DK vamps were saying back in the day...

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately this skill is not broken like the NB teleport attack, Shield Charge, Rampage, which stun the opponent the moment is cast on them, before you even approach them finishing the move....

I am pretty sure you are mistaken about Teleport Strike stunning before it reaches the target. Everything on my screen would suggest otherwise.

I think what hes talking about is those skill make your character unable to run in any direction until the skill hits you. Its the same with every charge skill. Not a stun or anything, just locked in place until contact, unless you dodge.